Ambrose66
Posts: 55
12/12/2016
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Is it just me, or is this game becoming worse from these points of view:
- Paying real money for everything. Every story costs real money to play it. If you add the subscriptions for months/ payment for stories, is one of the most expensive games on the market? And for what?
- for stories. This game attracted to me because the writing was great, it hinted towards dark horrors and most misteries had a closure. Now? The writing is more and more vague and excentric, but with no point at all. And there is no closure to a lot of things. That story about fire? What sense did it make? Here is how the writing looks to me right now:
The loud whispery scream of the fire engulfed night... the many arms of the one thousand legged thing of the past of the son of the prince of the empire of cathastrophic guilty pain... who will the plenty furred rat gnaw tonight? Will it be the bones of the recently dislodged?
And, oh yeah, why do I need a dictionary of neologisms every line I read?
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Hannah Flynn
Administrator
Posts: 491
12/12/2016
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Something about the way we work which might interest you in the context of this thread: it's far less likely these days that we would start something without a good idea of when we could finish a minimum version of it.
There are more of us (16 now), working on more games, and we have a producer, so our time is more closely measured and managed. This also means we have a good idea of how much time we'll need to finish content that is currently outstanding, and helps us look for that time in our schedules. I really believe we're the most efficient and capable of making things that we've ever been.
The not-great part is that there are already a lot of loose threads. More than we could finish off if it's all we did for a year. It's probably not obvious how long it takes to make our stories, but for example: each of our writing and tech staff spends anywhere up to a day's worth of time just on support tickets every week. I hope you'll trust me when I say that we're always looking for ways to get better.
So, we continue to (sweetly) demand your patience, and provide the best stories, the best support and the kindest community spaces for you in the meantime.
All shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.
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Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
12/12/2016
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I'd prefer it if they kept the current ES model. It may not give as much free content as I'd like, but they were getting close to out of business before it/sunless sea. I think paid stories and occasional free stories are better than no stories because of no money.
Edit: Maybe don't mass downvote this just for being an unpopular opinion. The disagreement is already fairly clear, and much lower and it just kinda feels like an attack.
edited by suinicide on 12/12/2016
edited by suinicide on 12/12/2016
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
12/12/2016
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The word count of the free portions of the game is currently twice as long as the Bible.
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The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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Hannah Flynn
Administrator
Posts: 491
12/13/2016
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suinicide wrote:
Perhaps the support tickets could be outsourced to the community first?
The community here and across tumblr, Facebook, twitter, IRC and reddit already do masses to help answer people's questions before they get as far as emailing support (along with the wikis). Thanks to your responsiveness and friendliness, there's almost nothing you can't find out about the game with a bit of googling or by asking nicely.
97% of the support tickets we receive can only be dealt with by us. Bugs, outages, typos, requests for interviews, internship applications, feedback, etc etc. We've been going for almost seven years, we still get support requests about the Night Circus, StoryNexus, Sunless Sea backer rewards... it is what it is!
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Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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Hannah Flynn
Administrator
Posts: 491
12/16/2016
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I believe the substantive conversation relating to the original topic has now wound down, and (as a kindness to the FBG team, who have to see the thread title popping back up every time someone comments on it) I'm going to give this thread a pat on the head and close it.
Merry Christmas to all!
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Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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Blaine Davidson
Posts: 388
12/12/2016
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I think it's just you.
A majority of the contents for Fallen London are free. If you want bonus materials then you can pay IF you so desire. A monthly subscription provides extra content for those of us hungry enough for it with bonus actions, cards, and the smug satisfaction that we are keeping FailBetter alive. The cost is comparable to other subscription based games which often FORCE you to pay in order to participate. Fallen London at least has the courtesy to politely ask.
The stories have always been vague and eccentric. Lots of hinting at, plenty of references to other content. The only instance where I can remember the game outright stating anything was when you discover what Sorrow Spiders do with eyes. And that made the effect that more impactful. I will agree I'd like more closure on some of the stories but if you really want closure I suppose you can meet Mr. Eaten.
Your example of writing while similar doesn't have the same succinctness. I'm not sure what you're referring to with the neologisms. Unless it's about Mr. Pages, the number of times I've looked a word up thanks to him only to be slightly disappointed is too high.
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Blaine Davidson, a reserved and sensible woman with a fondness of collecting rarities.
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babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
12/12/2016
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Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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mnemosius
Posts: 50
12/12/2016
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babelfishwars wrote:
This may be the most effective tactic yet. O God I'd do anything to make the puppy happy again - SAY GOOD THINGS ABOUT FAILBETTER PLEASE I BEG OF YOU.
And in all seriousness, as other people have said: most of the stories in Fallen London are 100% free. Exceptional Friends get an extra story a month for a very affordable cost and the knowledge that we're supporting a company that truly deserves it. Stories locked behind a paygate during seasonal events are usually there for pretty items you can put on your mantelpiece, not huge new blocks of text - and it's worth noting that we do get new stories and options on a fairly decent basis. If all it costs us is patience to get more about the Ambitions or something as ridiculous as the entirety of Seeking Mr. Eaten's Name, then I think we're doing just fine. Pay what you want to pay, but don't look at a minority of options and say that's the direction the game is taking.
--
The pursuit of purple is my penultimate purpose. I'm also happy to be a Persuasive Patron for any who might need one!
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Diosthenes
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/nathaniel%20grayborne - so very gone. Going NORTH does that to you.
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Mr Sables
Posts: 597
12/12/2016
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mnemosius wrote:
most of the stories in Fallen London are 100% free. [...] If all it costs us is patience to get more about the Ambitions or something as ridiculous as the entirety of Seeking Mr. Eaten's Name, then I think we're doing just fine.
At the risk of playing devil's advocate . . .
FBG are absolutely amazing - free festivals, new games, merchandise, a social base, dedicated staff . . . a lot of unfinished content at the free level, though. This range from stories to ambitions to areas to half-finished mechanics . . . it's something I think can put a lot of new players off, especially new players considering paying more, because it's difficult to invest money when all you see as a free player is a lot of unfinished material. I think - once unfinished content is complete - I'll personally have far less complaints.
If we imagine all unfinished content finished -? We've a game with a huge amount of free content, very well written, and with a staff that I honestly can't praise enough . . . the paid-for content is for extras, so you pay-as-you-go for what you want . . . it's a perfect way to support the staff, as well as to help them maintain an income through the EF and other extras.
I just think it's difficult at the moment . . .
I can see why people love it, as well as why people think it 'worse'. It's right in that awkward teenage puberty of games, where it's neither one thing or the other, and somewhat transitioning with the various improvements and tweaks and additions . . . it's a weird time to come into FL, so I can see why it'd put people off, but there's a huge amount to equally retain a large playerbase.
It's difficult to be patient, though, when you see some content unfinished years after promised, some over five years old or so, and you see new projects and new material and . . . well . . . it's when your cynical side asks whether it's been forgotten or abandoned.
The free stories are often the unfinished ones. The unfinished ones are often left incomplete for years.
It can understandably leave a bad impression for the free players . . .
In turn that affects whether then invest RL money.
So . . . yeah . . . it could be a problem.
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Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 787
12/12/2016
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Robin Alexander's first post sums up my opinion pretty well, I do not have much to add... but will do so anyway :P
Let's start with the one thing the OP mentioned that I totally disagree with:
Ambrose66 wrote:
And, oh yeah, why do I need a dictionary of neologisms every line I read? As a non-native speaker, the language of Fallen London is one of its biggest selling points for me. All the words this game has taught me! I'm disappointed every time I don't need to check at least one expression in an online dictionary when playing new content. I love FL's words. If you do not like the style this game's written in, you should really ask yourself whether it's the right game for you.
As for the rest, you certainly do raise some valid points there, but I guess a lot of it's down to the price of success. We do want Failbetter to be successful, right? I agree that some (but not all) of the recent ES/new content felt a bit like a never-ending series of vague hints and cliffhangers. It's a bit like those mainstream superhero comic series which I never could read for very long - i.e. "read all about the X-Men teaming up to fight the ultimate super-baddie, who turns out to be just a pawn of the REAL ultimate super-baddie and so on ad infinitum etc pp" - it does get old after a while.
I've been playing since 2010, with one or two breaks, and I do think there are a lot of issues - mechanics and content - they should have addressed yesterday. But it's their company, I trust them to know best how to run it. And if I reach that point where I feel a bit "meh" about everything again, why, I'll just go on another hiatus. Which I'm actually planning to do: as soon as my Seeker has gone North, I think I'll leave the game behind for a while (maybe up to a full year), and hopefully come back to find lots of new free content has been added (not counting on it though, since they'll also be working on Sunless Skies...)!
Yes, I'm a bit miffed that the "special Christmas story" won't be free either (though we don't know how much it'll cost yet), but neither was The Gift, which was one of their best stories ever... but yeah, I think ever since Governorship in Port Carnelian they haven't added a really big chunk of new, free content, and we could certainly do with something like that again, to keep both paying and non-paying players happy.
To reiterate: Robin Alexander wrote:
Just ask yourself if the pros are worth the cons for you. That's the TL;DR of my post, really. Sorry for using so many words. 
edited by Rupho Schartenhauer on 12/12/2016
--
Rupho Schartenhauer has killed a Master, well: most of it.
Cortez the Killer has killed a Master, definitely.
Deepdelver has become the progenitor of London's brightest star. It's... complicated.
Dr. Kvirkvelia, gone NORTH on 23/12/1894.
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Mr Sables
Posts: 597
12/12/2016
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Ambrose66 wrote:
Is it just me, or is this game becoming worse from these points of view:
- Paying real money for everything. Every story costs real money to play it. If you add the subscriptions for months/ payment for stories, is one of the most expensive games on the market? And for what?
- for stories. This game attracted to me because the writing was great, it hinted towards dark horrors and most misteries had a closure. Now? The writing is more and more vague and excentric, but with no point at all. And there is no closure to a lot of things. That story about fire? What sense did it make?
I wouldn't say it's worse, as such . . .
I have a huge pet peeve with unfinished content, but - somewhere - a staff member said they would be getting around to this, so we have some hope . . . I'd also like to see Fate stories 'retired' and made free after a year or two, to incite free players to continue playing, but I'm not sure how feasible this is to achieve . . . there are sometimes bugs (mostly from going over several platforms), but there's also a support team that are amazing at getting back to you and fixing stuff (I've always been amazed by how quick and politely they respond).
It's flawed, yes, but no more so than it's always been . . .
I feel it can seem worse, because we keep seeing free content left unfinished, but then see more paid-for content . . . it can create an imbalance in the mind, particularly when it's very easy to forget festivals, which are getting more and more, each one offering items and opportunities for stories . . . that in itself is something amazing we get for free each few months.
In terms of stories -? It varies a lot. I mean, there's one writer - naming no names - that I hate and groan every time I see they're the author of the EF, but another writer whom I love with a passion, and whom I'd gladly pay over and over for their stories, were I able to afford it . . . some I forget their names, as they aren't great/awful, and others I might smile and go 'ah, this will be different' . . . thing is, though -? It's all personal opinion. The writer I hate -? I know some who adore that same writer. You just can't please everyone . . . you just can't.
I guess the thing to ask is: do you enjoy "Fallen London"?
It's okay not to enjoy it . . . I know a few people try it and quit quite quickly, for a various amount of reasons, but I equally knows players on the forum that have played for years and never grown tired of it in the least . . . I'm about a year-and-a-half in now, have a lot of complaints, but also a lot of praises. Could it be better? Heck yes! Could it be worse? Heck yes! It's a game with a massive world and a small amount of staff.
FBG does need to find a better balance between 'free' and 'paying' members, God yes, but they do a lot for all members of all sorts . . . the stories they do write are varied, and eventually I think we'll get closure on unfinished stories (maybe) . . .
Just have to ask yourself if the pros are worth the cons for you.
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Passionario
Posts: 777
12/13/2016
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I used to begrudge the slowness and sparsity of FL's content updates. Then I tried my hand at Storynexus and immediately recanted.
God bless the poor souls who work with this platform for a living. Take all the time you need.
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Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
Passion: Profile, Appearance
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Gul al-Ahlaam
Posts: 225
12/13/2016
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Retaining good writers and artists is expensive. If you want to make art, your art has to make money. The fact that so much of this game is free in the first place is a minor miracle. If you enjoy something, and have the means to contribute to it, you should do that, so that the thing can continue to exist and improve, and so that the people who made it are rewarded for their hard work. If you don't have the means, be happy with what is available. Beggars can't be choosers.
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The Uncanny Hierophant.
The Jewel-Eyed Prince.
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Kalix
Posts: 50
12/12/2016
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I don't think so. The Exceptional Friendship stories are a very mixed bag, but it seems like there's an event or festival every couple of months, and I'm pretty sure the Advent items this year are more consistently valuable. It's not a game that takes up much time, certainly, but I pay more than a fiver a month for coffee, and Fallen London is at least better for me than Starbucks 
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Harlocke
Posts: 506
12/15/2016
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Skinnyman wrote:
Harlocke wrote:
What I always thought would make sense is using some exceptional stories to wrap up unfinished stories, and kill two birds with one stone. Use whatever resources would be spent on an ES to tie up loose ends. A plot line like returning to court from banishment would work really great as a built out ES. Obviously that means it would no longer be free, but I'd rather pay to see a story end than have it not end at all.
Well, that would make FL a pay2play. "Here's a free story, but if you want to finish the whole story, give us money!"
And that's the main reason why I never support projects that use this approach. The satisfaction for the player comes when she/he/it reached the final conclusion, the end, the goal achieved, completion! I agree with payed content, but don't mix them as someone that isn't able to pay won't be able to enjoy that craved satisfaction even if it's free; it's pay2finish/play.
Maybe not pay2play, more like pay4more. I don't think abruptly halting a free story with a pay gate is the right idea. But I think it's fair to pay to unlock additional branches to the story, a wider variety of endings, better rewards.
For example, if there was a story about hunting a carnivorous lizard terrorizing the streets of London, the free branch might let you kill the lizard and pick which faction to give the body to in exchange for different monetary rewards like jade and rostygold. The additional locked branch would let you instead choose to capture the lizard alive and make it a companion, start an investigation to learn where the lizard came from, find the insane lizard farmer who bred the beast, learn what motivates him, and then choose to either turn him over to the authorities or keep his secret, both options adding a different useful card to your deck. Either way you get a completed story.
--
I welcome social actions, and can visit your salon as an author.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Harlocke
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
12/15/2016
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Skinnyman wrote:
she/he/it
I don't like to quibble, but I believe the word you're looking for is "they".
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
12/15/2016
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I quite understand - but rubberies, tomb-colonists, and, indeed, those of mysterious and indeterminate gender are people too, and it's impolite to call people "it" unless they've specifically asked you to! And, as my grandmother used to say, "be polite to a rubbery, and your day will be loverly."
--
Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
12/16/2016
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Yeah, the conceptualisation of the player character in the early years was very much a rogue, a rakehell, a ne'er-do-well - I do believe I recall that exact term being used, in fact. It was considered inconceivable that the player wouldn't want to drink, steal, seduce and profane everything under the sun or otherwise.
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Kaijyuu
Posts: 1047
12/15/2016
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I must say FBG's monetization scheme is faaaaaaaaaaaaar better than most "free" games out there. Lots of companies really try to exploit people, either through huge "supporter packages" that cost thousands of dollars or through letting people rack up hundreds if not thousands of microtransactions. The main income for fallen london seems to be the subscription and handful of paid stories, not refreshing actions/cards, and they get high praise from me for that.
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Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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MrBurnside
Posts: 188
12/16/2016
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I think that there's also another way that FL has changed over the years (without necessarily being worse for it): the voice has changed.
When I started playing, most of the stories and text assumed you were a lecherous, traitorous, thieving no-good. The "material" rewards of any given storylet were likely to have been gotten from deceit: jade stolen from acquaintances; correspondence taken from lovers; so-on and so-forth. The writers of FL seem to have taken a more ambiguous tone over the last few years. More of the stories now have clear options for a moral high-path.
I don't think this makes the game worse at all. One of the big complaints here on the forums used to be that FL didn't accommodate the more law-abiding (or sexually/romantically reserved) character conceptions. I don't see that complaint at all anymore.
I do think it makes the game feel very different though.
It makes characterization a much more protracted affair when not everyone is playing similar characters and it can change the way a given character evolves when motivations are not given to the character directly by the writers.
It took me a long time (and a couple new characters) to notice how sweeping the changes were because my main had been created when there was still a strong Flashman-ish attitude in new content. But looking back I can see how much new content has been added and how different such content is from what came before.
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Kaijyuu
Posts: 1047
12/13/2016
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I'm pretty satisfied with the game as a whole. Seasonal stuff keeps the grind from being too monotonous, and there's new free stuff here and there.
The game's intended to give a 5 minute distraction here and there and it works just fine for that.
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Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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genesis
Posts: 924
12/13/2016
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New content that's behind Fate/Subscription wall
* Exceptional Stories
* Collector items from seasonal content
* One, as yet unseen, seasonal story
New content that's not behind Fate/Subscription wall
* Heart's Desire ambition
* Making the Name
* Second case of Reliables
* Flash Lays
* Elusive Countess Heist
* Port Carnelian
* Mr Eaten
* Renown items
* 1.5 new entire seasonal events
edited by genesis on 12/13/2016
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/mikey_thinkin
Keeping track of incomplete content and loose ends in Fallen London
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
12/14/2016
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CALLNXW wrote:
Nigel Overstreet wrote:
The word count of the free portions of the game is currently twice as long as the Bible.
well uh
so is Fallout: Equestria, so idk if the wordcount suddenly makes the effort worthy of praise
I'd say FL's writing is very good.
edited by Anne Auclair on 12/16/2016
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Harlocke
Posts: 506
12/15/2016
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What I always thought would make sense is using some exceptional stories to wrap up unfinished stories, and kill two birds with one stone. Use whatever resources would be spent on an ES to tie up loose ends. A plot line like returning to court from banishment would work really great as a built out ES. Obviously that means it would no longer be free, but I'd rather pay to see a story end than have it not end at all.
And there could still be content for free players too. Let's say returning to court was written as a deluxe ES, but with a free branch that provided a somewhat more perfunctory but still satisfying ending. Paid players could get more lore, receive additional gameplay, additional ending options, exclusive items, get new cards for their deck, etc., but both free and paid would see the story concluded in some way. Maybe 40% of the ES would be free with the remaining 60% locked behind subscription or fate, but everybody would win whether they pay or not.
edited by Harlocke on 12/15/2016
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I welcome social actions, and can visit your salon as an author.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Harlocke
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PJ
Posts: 210
12/15/2016
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I believe "it" is the preferred pronoun for the Masters. Surely emulating them must be fashionable in some circles?
Anyway, I always thought "pay2finish" was the model that made most sense for games. After you've played a while, you can decide if the game is worth it or not. Once I've decided it's worth money, I'd rather pay the full cost than be nickle-and-dimed over time.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Peter%20James
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
12/16/2016
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It's not strange that a game set in Victorian times would get players who want amusing opportunities to act all prim and proper ^_^
Of course one of the major features of the Victorian era was massive bourgeois hypocrisy, so the opposing extremes of rake and prude are actually rather complimentary. One must keep up appearances and all that.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
12/16/2016
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You mean it used to be worse??
*suddenly feels horrible about her constant griping about forced moral alignment*
Sounds like the writers have actually done a lot to accommodate those of us who want to play as good guys.
Perhaps it's time for me to be a bit more appreciative 
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
12/13/2016
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I suspect the connections to favor/reputation conversions are what is eating up a lot of time. It's not a simple switch over, the connection mechanics are integrated pretty deeply into the rest of the game - both free and fate-locked sections. Finishing one connection conversion is at least the equivalent of finishing one unfinished storyline.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 787
12/12/2016
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Kukapetal wrote:
Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
Yes, I'm a bit miffed that the "special Christmas story" won't be free There's a Special Christmas Story? Did I miss an announcement? Apparently, yes:
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic23683-its-snowing-in-fallen-london.aspx#post177508
Absintheuse wrote:
Closer to Christmas day, a new festive premium story will be available for purchase featuring everyone's favourite Mayor of London and the Empress' Shadow!
edited by Rupho Schartenhauer on 12/12/2016
--
Rupho Schartenhauer has killed a Master, well: most of it.
Cortez the Killer has killed a Master, definitely.
Deepdelver has become the progenitor of London's brightest star. It's... complicated.
Dr. Kvirkvelia, gone NORTH on 23/12/1894.
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Ambrose66
Posts: 55
12/12/2016
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First I want to apologise for being too brutal. I've been playing this game for some years and I don't have much to do, except some parts where I need some serious grinding. I stand by my opinion, though, that the writing has become weaker, only exception being the part where you become a governator.
When complaining about prices, I'm thinking about choiceofgames that often has stories that contain 100k+ words for just a few euros and, you can play them again in order to see different choices. I've tried this in FL, but when I realised how much I have to play in order to reach the same part I quit.
Blaine Davidson said:
Blaine Davidson wrote:
The stories have always been vague and eccentric. Lots of hinting at, plenty of references to other content. The only instance where I can remember the game outright stating anything was when you discover what Sorrow Spiders do with eyes. And that made the effect that more impactful. I will agree I'd like more closure on some of the stories but if you really want closure I suppose you can meet Mr. Eaten.
So, is Mr. eaten story finished? It's one of the most horrifying stories and I really wanted it to be finished. I like the mistery, but some parts are extremely ambiguous. I'm trying to raise my hunger and I just can't go in the second digits.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
12/12/2016
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Mr. eaten is finished, though one of the endings is rather ambiguous.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
12/12/2016
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Perhaps the support tickets could be outsourced to the community first? I know I have been guilty of sending reports for things that ended up being mechanics (or just for this is a major problem effecting everyone)and passing them through a community filter first may help. (If this was any other community I wouldn't even suggest this)
If it ends up being a major problem or something that requires programming we could send it up to FBG.
edited by suinicide on 12/12/2016
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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MrBurnside
Posts: 188
12/16/2016
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Kukapetal wrote:
You mean it used to be worse??
*suddenly feels horrible about her constant griping about forced moral alignment*
Sounds like the writers have actually done a lot to accommodate those of us who want to play as good guys.
Perhaps it's time for me to be a bit more appreciative
I honestly think it's a matter of taste. I found the over-the-top flippancy, selfishness and hypocrisy to be a great deal of fun. I mentioned Flashman earlier and that was really how some of the earlier writing portrayed the PC. Maybe with the more fun bits of Maugham or Huxley.
I find it easy to separate out my preference for the older tone, with the fact that many people may find the game more welcoming now. As was discussed up-thread: these seem like growing pains.
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Mr Sables
Posts: 597
12/15/2016
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PJ wrote:
I believe "it" is the preferred pronoun for the Masters. Surely emulating them must be fashionable in some circles?
At the risk of getting off-topic . . .
In the game itself, it's probably nothing too bad to have creatures referred to as 'it'. The slight problem here - although totally unintentional - was that the term was used to refer to real-life players and paired with 'he' and 'she' . . . it can come across as dehumanising, as is there's a masculine, feminine, and then an 'it'. It's somewhat offensive to anyone with a different gender to male/female.
That being said, the user clearly didn't mean it to be used in the offensive sense, and the matter was dealt with by staff, so . . . yeah . . . no harm, no foul. I'd just advise against copying from the Masters outside of London
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Harlocke wrote:
Maybe not pay2play, more like pay4more. I don't think abruptly halting a free story with a pay gate is the right idea. But I think it's fair to pay to unlock additional branches to the story, a wider variety of endings, better rewards.
For example, if there was a story about hunting a carnivorous lizard terrorizing the streets of London, the free branch might let you kill the lizard and pick which faction to give the body to in exchange for different monetary rewards like jade and rostygold. The additional locked branch would let you instead choose to capture the lizard alive and make it a companion, start an investigation to learn where the lizard came from, find the insane lizard farmer who bred the beast, learn what motivates him, and then choose to either turn him over to the authorities or keep his secret, both options adding a different useful card to your deck. Either way you get a completed story.
I still love the idea of having a 'pay for more' system . . .
It could be tricky to implement, though. In your example, what if the character plays a pacifist role? They might not want to kill the lizard, thus feel railroaded into paying for more, or perhaps they would get a magnanimous decrease and feel penalised for playing the only choice available to them . . . if we were to use a 'pay for more' approach, the most basic/free route would have to be something so non-offensive to all players that it could easily become - well - dull. It would be difficult to create one path/branch that offends no one and suits everyone.
Still, it would enable old stories to become finished, which would be amazing, while still offering more for EF players . . . I'm thinking your idea that one could investigate, meet side-characters, gain companions/extras etc., would be a great compromise to giving EF players more, without letting free players be left out. It's something I'd certainly support.
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A Dimness
Posts: 613
12/15/2016
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CALLNXW wrote:
Nigel Overstreet wrote:
The word count of the free portions of the game is currently twice as long as the Bible.
well uh
so is Fallout: Equestria, so idk if the wordcount suddenly makes the effort worthy of praise I am fairly certain that I'm the inspiration for that comment. No regrets, FoE is coolio.
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A truth so strange it can only be lied into existence
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Harlocke
Posts: 506
12/15/2016
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Robin Alexander wrote:
I still love the idea of having a 'pay for more' system . . .
It could be tricky to implement, though. In your example, what if the character plays a pacifist role? They might not want to kill the lizard, thus feel railroaded into paying for more, or perhaps they would get a magnanimous decrease and feel penalised for playing the only choice available to them . . . if we were to use a 'pay for more' approach, the most basic/free route would have to be something so non-offensive to all players that it could easily become - well - dull. It would be difficult to create one path/branch that offends no one and suits everyone.
Still, it would enable old stories to become finished, which would be amazing, while still offering more for EF players . . . I'm thinking your idea that one could investigate, meet side-characters, gain companions/extras etc., would be a great compromise to giving EF players more, without letting free players be left out. It's something I'd certainly support.
You could have more than one free branches to fit different playing styles, as long as they don't require a lot of work. It's the extra work you're paying for with the more deluxe version of the story.
For instance, in that hypothetical lizard story maybe there would be free endings to either:
A) Kill the lizard, and pick a faction to sell the body to for different monetary rewards.
B) Walk away from the whole business, forgoing all rewards and letting the lizard continue attacking Londoners.
C) Ask Mr. Inch to help you capture the lizard, which keeps it alive but then it goes to the Labyrinth of Tigers as an exhibit and your reward is just a bunch of rata.
You have options, but all the free endings conclude the story shortly after that decision, so there isnt a lot of work for FBG.
The exceptional story option to capture the lizard for yourself, and the subsequent investigation into the lizard's origins, would have a lot of content that justifies the cost of subscription.
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I welcome social actions, and can visit your salon as an author.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Harlocke
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dov
Posts: 2580
12/14/2016
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Ambrose66 wrote:
It's not helpful enough. I'm sorry, I'm not in this for the puzzle, I'm in here for the story and I suck at guessing.
suinicide wrote:
http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Seeking_Mr_Eaten's_Name_(Guide)
I'm not sure what is unclear about that guide, as it's not meant as a puzzle or for guessing - it's a detailed step by step guide on how to Seek the Name, from start to finish.
But I'll try to give you some more specific info. Please ask if there's any point where you feel more clarification would help:
[spoiler]Basically, you want to follow the options on the Seeking Road storylet in your lodgings. More options will open as your Seeking level increases. Your end goal is to get to Seeking level 77, collect all 7 special candles, and sail NORTH on your ship.
To raise your Seeking level, there are two approaches:
The easy, yet slow, way is to use Unaccountably Peckish cards:
- For each level of UP you have, another black bordered card is added to your deck. These cards all have options which increase SMEN (these are the options which require have no Marsh-Mired). Marsh-Mired will be cleared when next Time the Healer visits you, thus ensuring you can only do this once a week.
- Also notice that the different UP cards have different caps as to how high they will raise SMEN. You can use these cards to raise SMEN if your SMEN level is no more than 3 x the card's number. So - with your current SMEN level of 13, you can use UP cards 5-9. Cards 1-4 will not help you.
- Because of this cap, and because there are only 9 UP cards, you can use this method to get as high as SMEN 28.
- After using this option, the best thing is to reduce UP to 0 until next Time the Healer, so your deck isn't clogged by these black cards.
- If you draw the wrong type of these cards, either play an option (without the Mars-Mired requirement) on it to get rid of it (might be very costly and or damaging for some of the cards), or play with your UP level to control which cards are available.
- To raise UP, it's best to use a starveling cat in the Flit's Bats and Cats storylet, as this gives 3 levels of UP (requires making at least some progress in the Wars of Illusions). Alternatively, you can pass a starveling cat back and forth with a friend (or alt). Sending one gives a point of UP.
- To reduce UP, it's best to take refreshments in the first coil of the Labyrinth of Tigers.
If you're impatient with the slow, yet safe, method - several options on the Seeking Road will raise SMEN. But these become more and more costly as you progress (both in item cost and in challenge difficulty). If you want to take this road, Drowning Your Secrets is the least painful/costly.
To raise SMEN further (up to the eventually needed 77) you'll nee to find Mr Eaten's Calling Card which will get you to Winking Isle. There you can raise SMEN as high as you want - it's all luck challenges (no other cost). It might take a while on the isle, but you'll get there eventually. You will need to have Watchful 200 (with gear) and SMEN of 21 to make any progress, though. To get the Calling Card, you either get one the expensive way (7 Searing Enigmas and lots of Proscribed Materials) when you reach SMEN 29 (via the God'd Editors card), or be gifted one by another player (there's a thread here on the forums to request one).
That's it for raising SMEN. As I said, new options will unlock on The Seeking Road as your SMEN increases. When the options open, you'll want to choose either Hate or Grieve (needed to get to Winking Isle), to Chain, Scar and Stain your soul seven times, and to get the 7 special candles (each with it's own cost - but getting any of these candles gives a point of SMEN by itself).
Good luck![/spoiler]
--
 Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
(Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
12/13/2016
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Basically: the seeking road, drown your secrets. Use the UP cards once a week, choose option that locks with marsh-mired. Each one increases SMEN to (UP level it appears at) times 3. Get the scars, stains, and memories when you are high enough to see the options in seeking road. (The first scar will be a new card) At 21 you start getting candles (which are fairly easy to figure out the location of) and at 29 its time for winking isle. Get to it using the god's editor card or asking someone for help. Raise it to 77 (circling the well is the most useful, but successes and failures on other options can tell you things) and finish whatever candles you missed earlier.
You may also burn (no candle) for a level and lore on winking isle. You will lose (no candle) but I think its one of the most interesting options.
edited by suinicide on 12/13/2016
edited by suinicide on 12/13/2016
edited by suinicide on 12/13/2016
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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CALLNXW
Posts: 116
12/14/2016
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Nigel Overstreet wrote:
The word count of the free portions of the game is currently twice as long as the Bible.
well uh
so is Fallout: Equestria, so idk if the wordcount suddenly makes the effort worthy of praise
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/Call%20Now
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phryne
Posts: 1351
12/16/2016
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Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
It was considered inconceivable that the player wouldn't want to drink, steal, seduce and profane everything under the sun or otherwise. Yes, I do consider that totally inconceivable! ;P
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Ambrose66
Posts: 55
12/14/2016
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Thank you, Dov, that's what I've wanted.
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Mr Sables
Posts: 597
12/15/2016
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Harlocke wrote:
What I always thought would make sense is using some exceptional stories to wrap up unfinished stories, and kill two birds with one stone. Use whatever resources would be spent on an ES to tie up loose ends. A plot line like returning to court from banishment would work really great as a built out ES. Obviously that means it would no longer be free, but I'd rather pay to see a story end than have it not end at all.
And there could still be content for free players too. Let's say returning to court was written as a deluxe ES, but with a free branch that provided a somewhat more perfunctory but still satisfying ending. Paid players could get more lore, receive additional gameplay, additional ending options, exclusive items, get new cards for their deck, etc., but both free and paid would see the story concluded in some way. Maybe 40% of the ES would be free with the remaining 60% locked behind subscription or fate, but everybody would win whether they pay or not.
edited by Harlocke on 12/15/2016
It could be worth submitting that on the feedback thread or to FBG directly
It's a very clever compromise; I know FBG said they didn't want to end a free storyline with a paid one, but also the free storylines take time they don't have to complete, but this would - as you say - kill two birds with one stone . . . free players won't lose out, paid members still get an EF, but gradually old unfinished works will get completed
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
12/12/2016
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Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
Yes, I'm a bit miffed that the "special Christmas story" won't be free
There's a Special Christmas Story? Did I miss an announcement?
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
12/12/2016
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I think it'd be nice if the gift became free, make Christmas stories like a long term ES for people. (Also hey, its Christmas)
edited by suinicide on 12/12/2016
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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mired
Posts: 15
12/13/2016
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I think when you've been playing for a while, it can be really easy to get into a funk. I've been playing about 4 years now, and became an EF last year even though my interest was dwindling a bit because I wanted to support FBG. One thing that helped was seeking, and ending my original character so I could really focus on my new one, and see some of the sites anew. The whole seeking thing took about 4 months, which gave me plenty of time to shore up my last goals.
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