PJ
Posts: 210
12/15/2016
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I believe "it" is the preferred pronoun for the Masters. Surely emulating them must be fashionable in some circles?
Anyway, I always thought "pay2finish" was the model that made most sense for games. After you've played a while, you can decide if the game is worth it or not. Once I've decided it's worth money, I'd rather pay the full cost than be nickle-and-dimed over time.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Peter%20James
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Harlocke
Posts: 506
12/15/2016
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Skinnyman wrote:
Harlocke wrote:
What I always thought would make sense is using some exceptional stories to wrap up unfinished stories, and kill two birds with one stone. Use whatever resources would be spent on an ES to tie up loose ends. A plot line like returning to court from banishment would work really great as a built out ES. Obviously that means it would no longer be free, but I'd rather pay to see a story end than have it not end at all.
Well, that would make FL a pay2play. "Here's a free story, but if you want to finish the whole story, give us money!"
And that's the main reason why I never support projects that use this approach. The satisfaction for the player comes when she/he/it reached the final conclusion, the end, the goal achieved, completion! I agree with payed content, but don't mix them as someone that isn't able to pay won't be able to enjoy that craved satisfaction even if it's free; it's pay2finish/play.
Maybe not pay2play, more like pay4more. I don't think abruptly halting a free story with a pay gate is the right idea. But I think it's fair to pay to unlock additional branches to the story, a wider variety of endings, better rewards.
For example, if there was a story about hunting a carnivorous lizard terrorizing the streets of London, the free branch might let you kill the lizard and pick which faction to give the body to in exchange for different monetary rewards like jade and rostygold. The additional locked branch would let you instead choose to capture the lizard alive and make it a companion, start an investigation to learn where the lizard came from, find the insane lizard farmer who bred the beast, learn what motivates him, and then choose to either turn him over to the authorities or keep his secret, both options adding a different useful card to your deck. Either way you get a completed story.
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I welcome social actions, and can visit your salon as an author.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Harlocke
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Mr Sables
Posts: 597
12/15/2016
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PJ wrote:
I believe "it" is the preferred pronoun for the Masters. Surely emulating them must be fashionable in some circles?
At the risk of getting off-topic . . .
In the game itself, it's probably nothing too bad to have creatures referred to as 'it'. The slight problem here - although totally unintentional - was that the term was used to refer to real-life players and paired with 'he' and 'she' . . . it can come across as dehumanising, as is there's a masculine, feminine, and then an 'it'. It's somewhat offensive to anyone with a different gender to male/female.
That being said, the user clearly didn't mean it to be used in the offensive sense, and the matter was dealt with by staff, so . . . yeah . . . no harm, no foul. I'd just advise against copying from the Masters outside of London 
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Harlocke wrote:
Maybe not pay2play, more like pay4more. I don't think abruptly halting a free story with a pay gate is the right idea. But I think it's fair to pay to unlock additional branches to the story, a wider variety of endings, better rewards.
For example, if there was a story about hunting a carnivorous lizard terrorizing the streets of London, the free branch might let you kill the lizard and pick which faction to give the body to in exchange for different monetary rewards like jade and rostygold. The additional locked branch would let you instead choose to capture the lizard alive and make it a companion, start an investigation to learn where the lizard came from, find the insane lizard farmer who bred the beast, learn what motivates him, and then choose to either turn him over to the authorities or keep his secret, both options adding a different useful card to your deck. Either way you get a completed story.
I still love the idea of having a 'pay for more' system . . .
It could be tricky to implement, though. In your example, what if the character plays a pacifist role? They might not want to kill the lizard, thus feel railroaded into paying for more, or perhaps they would get a magnanimous decrease and feel penalised for playing the only choice available to them . . . if we were to use a 'pay for more' approach, the most basic/free route would have to be something so non-offensive to all players that it could easily become - well - dull. It would be difficult to create one path/branch that offends no one and suits everyone.
Still, it would enable old stories to become finished, which would be amazing, while still offering more for EF players . . . I'm thinking your idea that one could investigate, meet side-characters, gain companions/extras etc., would be a great compromise to giving EF players more, without letting free players be left out. It's something I'd certainly support.
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A Dimness
Posts: 613
12/15/2016
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CALLNXW wrote:
Nigel Overstreet wrote:
The word count of the free portions of the game is currently twice as long as the Bible.
well uh
so is Fallout: Equestria, so idk if the wordcount suddenly makes the effort worthy of praise I am fairly certain that I'm the inspiration for that comment. No regrets, FoE is coolio.
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A truth so strange it can only be lied into existence
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Harlocke
Posts: 506
12/15/2016
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Robin Alexander wrote:
I still love the idea of having a 'pay for more' system . . .
It could be tricky to implement, though. In your example, what if the character plays a pacifist role? They might not want to kill the lizard, thus feel railroaded into paying for more, or perhaps they would get a magnanimous decrease and feel penalised for playing the only choice available to them . . . if we were to use a 'pay for more' approach, the most basic/free route would have to be something so non-offensive to all players that it could easily become - well - dull. It would be difficult to create one path/branch that offends no one and suits everyone.
Still, it would enable old stories to become finished, which would be amazing, while still offering more for EF players . . . I'm thinking your idea that one could investigate, meet side-characters, gain companions/extras etc., would be a great compromise to giving EF players more, without letting free players be left out. It's something I'd certainly support.
You could have more than one free branches to fit different playing styles, as long as they don't require a lot of work. It's the extra work you're paying for with the more deluxe version of the story.
For instance, in that hypothetical lizard story maybe there would be free endings to either:
A) Kill the lizard, and pick a faction to sell the body to for different monetary rewards.
B) Walk away from the whole business, forgoing all rewards and letting the lizard continue attacking Londoners.
C) Ask Mr. Inch to help you capture the lizard, which keeps it alive but then it goes to the Labyrinth of Tigers as an exhibit and your reward is just a bunch of rata.
You have options, but all the free endings conclude the story shortly after that decision, so there isnt a lot of work for FBG.
The exceptional story option to capture the lizard for yourself, and the subsequent investigation into the lizard's origins, would have a lot of content that justifies the cost of subscription.
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I welcome social actions, and can visit your salon as an author.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Harlocke
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Kaijyuu
Posts: 1047
12/15/2016
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I must say FBG's monetization scheme is faaaaaaaaaaaaar better than most "free" games out there. Lots of companies really try to exploit people, either through huge "supporter packages" that cost thousands of dollars or through letting people rack up hundreds if not thousands of microtransactions. The main income for fallen london seems to be the subscription and handful of paid stories, not refreshing actions/cards, and they get high praise from me for that.
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Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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MrBurnside
Posts: 188
12/16/2016
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I think that there's also another way that FL has changed over the years (without necessarily being worse for it): the voice has changed.
When I started playing, most of the stories and text assumed you were a lecherous, traitorous, thieving no-good. The "material" rewards of any given storylet were likely to have been gotten from deceit: jade stolen from acquaintances; correspondence taken from lovers; so-on and so-forth. The writers of FL seem to have taken a more ambiguous tone over the last few years. More of the stories now have clear options for a moral high-path.
I don't think this makes the game worse at all. One of the big complaints here on the forums used to be that FL didn't accommodate the more law-abiding (or sexually/romantically reserved) character conceptions. I don't see that complaint at all anymore.
I do think it makes the game feel very different though.
It makes characterization a much more protracted affair when not everyone is playing similar characters and it can change the way a given character evolves when motivations are not given to the character directly by the writers.
It took me a long time (and a couple new characters) to notice how sweeping the changes were because my main had been created when there was still a strong Flashman-ish attitude in new content. But looking back I can see how much new content has been added and how different such content is from what came before.
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
12/16/2016
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You mean it used to be worse??
*suddenly feels horrible about her constant griping about forced moral alignment*
Sounds like the writers have actually done a lot to accommodate those of us who want to play as good guys.
Perhaps it's time for me to be a bit more appreciative 
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MrBurnside
Posts: 188
12/16/2016
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Kukapetal wrote:
You mean it used to be worse??
*suddenly feels horrible about her constant griping about forced moral alignment*
Sounds like the writers have actually done a lot to accommodate those of us who want to play as good guys.
Perhaps it's time for me to be a bit more appreciative
I honestly think it's a matter of taste. I found the over-the-top flippancy, selfishness and hypocrisy to be a great deal of fun. I mentioned Flashman earlier and that was really how some of the earlier writing portrayed the PC. Maybe with the more fun bits of Maugham or Huxley.
I find it easy to separate out my preference for the older tone, with the fact that many people may find the game more welcoming now. As was discussed up-thread: these seem like growing pains.
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
12/16/2016
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Yeah, the conceptualisation of the player character in the early years was very much a rogue, a rakehell, a ne'er-do-well - I do believe I recall that exact term being used, in fact. It was considered inconceivable that the player wouldn't want to drink, steal, seduce and profane everything under the sun or otherwise.
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
12/16/2016
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It's not strange that a game set in Victorian times would get players who want amusing opportunities to act all prim and proper ^_^
Of course one of the major features of the Victorian era was massive bourgeois hypocrisy, so the opposing extremes of rake and prude are actually rather complimentary. One must keep up appearances and all that.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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phryne
Posts: 1351
12/16/2016
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Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
It was considered inconceivable that the player wouldn't want to drink, steal, seduce and profane everything under the sun or otherwise. Yes, I do consider that totally inconceivable! ;P
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Hannah Flynn
Administrator
Posts: 491
12/16/2016
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I believe the substantive conversation relating to the original topic has now wound down, and (as a kindness to the FBG team, who have to see the thread title popping back up every time someone comments on it) I'm going to give this thread a pat on the head and close it.
Merry Christmas to all!
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Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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