Ambrose66
Posts: 55
12/12/2016
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Is it just me, or is this game becoming worse from these points of view:
- Paying real money for everything. Every story costs real money to play it. If you add the subscriptions for months/ payment for stories, is one of the most expensive games on the market? And for what?
- for stories. This game attracted to me because the writing was great, it hinted towards dark horrors and most misteries had a closure. Now? The writing is more and more vague and excentric, but with no point at all. And there is no closure to a lot of things. That story about fire? What sense did it make? Here is how the writing looks to me right now:
The loud whispery scream of the fire engulfed night... the many arms of the one thousand legged thing of the past of the son of the prince of the empire of cathastrophic guilty pain... who will the plenty furred rat gnaw tonight? Will it be the bones of the recently dislodged?
And, oh yeah, why do I need a dictionary of neologisms every line I read?
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Blaine Davidson
Posts: 388
12/12/2016
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I think it's just you.
A majority of the contents for Fallen London are free. If you want bonus materials then you can pay IF you so desire. A monthly subscription provides extra content for those of us hungry enough for it with bonus actions, cards, and the smug satisfaction that we are keeping FailBetter alive. The cost is comparable to other subscription based games which often FORCE you to pay in order to participate. Fallen London at least has the courtesy to politely ask.
The stories have always been vague and eccentric. Lots of hinting at, plenty of references to other content. The only instance where I can remember the game outright stating anything was when you discover what Sorrow Spiders do with eyes. And that made the effect that more impactful. I will agree I'd like more closure on some of the stories but if you really want closure I suppose you can meet Mr. Eaten.
Your example of writing while similar doesn't have the same succinctness. I'm not sure what you're referring to with the neologisms. Unless it's about Mr. Pages, the number of times I've looked a word up thanks to him only to be slightly disappointed is too high.
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Blaine Davidson, a reserved and sensible woman with a fondness of collecting rarities.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
12/12/2016
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I'd prefer it if they kept the current ES model. It may not give as much free content as I'd like, but they were getting close to out of business before it/sunless sea. I think paid stories and occasional free stories are better than no stories because of no money.
Edit: Maybe don't mass downvote this just for being an unpopular opinion. The disagreement is already fairly clear, and much lower and it just kinda feels like an attack.
edited by suinicide on 12/12/2016
edited by suinicide on 12/12/2016
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Kalix
Posts: 50
12/12/2016
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I don't think so. The Exceptional Friendship stories are a very mixed bag, but it seems like there's an event or festival every couple of months, and I'm pretty sure the Advent items this year are more consistently valuable. It's not a game that takes up much time, certainly, but I pay more than a fiver a month for coffee, and Fallen London is at least better for me than Starbucks 
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Mr Sables
Posts: 597
12/12/2016
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Ambrose66 wrote:
Is it just me, or is this game becoming worse from these points of view:
- Paying real money for everything. Every story costs real money to play it. If you add the subscriptions for months/ payment for stories, is one of the most expensive games on the market? And for what?
- for stories. This game attracted to me because the writing was great, it hinted towards dark horrors and most misteries had a closure. Now? The writing is more and more vague and excentric, but with no point at all. And there is no closure to a lot of things. That story about fire? What sense did it make?
I wouldn't say it's worse, as such . . .
I have a huge pet peeve with unfinished content, but - somewhere - a staff member said they would be getting around to this, so we have some hope . . . I'd also like to see Fate stories 'retired' and made free after a year or two, to incite free players to continue playing, but I'm not sure how feasible this is to achieve . . . there are sometimes bugs (mostly from going over several platforms), but there's also a support team that are amazing at getting back to you and fixing stuff (I've always been amazed by how quick and politely they respond).
It's flawed, yes, but no more so than it's always been . . .
I feel it can seem worse, because we keep seeing free content left unfinished, but then see more paid-for content . . . it can create an imbalance in the mind, particularly when it's very easy to forget festivals, which are getting more and more, each one offering items and opportunities for stories . . . that in itself is something amazing we get for free each few months.
In terms of stories -? It varies a lot. I mean, there's one writer - naming no names - that I hate and groan every time I see they're the author of the EF, but another writer whom I love with a passion, and whom I'd gladly pay over and over for their stories, were I able to afford it . . . some I forget their names, as they aren't great/awful, and others I might smile and go 'ah, this will be different' . . . thing is, though -? It's all personal opinion. The writer I hate -? I know some who adore that same writer. You just can't please everyone . . . you just can't.
I guess the thing to ask is: do you enjoy "Fallen London"?
It's okay not to enjoy it . . . I know a few people try it and quit quite quickly, for a various amount of reasons, but I equally knows players on the forum that have played for years and never grown tired of it in the least . . . I'm about a year-and-a-half in now, have a lot of complaints, but also a lot of praises. Could it be better? Heck yes! Could it be worse? Heck yes! It's a game with a massive world and a small amount of staff.
FBG does need to find a better balance between 'free' and 'paying' members, God yes, but they do a lot for all members of all sorts . . . the stories they do write are varied, and eventually I think we'll get closure on unfinished stories (maybe) . . .
Just have to ask yourself if the pros are worth the cons for you.
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babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
12/12/2016
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Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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mnemosius
Posts: 50
12/12/2016
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babelfishwars wrote:
This may be the most effective tactic yet. O God I'd do anything to make the puppy happy again - SAY GOOD THINGS ABOUT FAILBETTER PLEASE I BEG OF YOU.
And in all seriousness, as other people have said: most of the stories in Fallen London are 100% free. Exceptional Friends get an extra story a month for a very affordable cost and the knowledge that we're supporting a company that truly deserves it. Stories locked behind a paygate during seasonal events are usually there for pretty items you can put on your mantelpiece, not huge new blocks of text - and it's worth noting that we do get new stories and options on a fairly decent basis. If all it costs us is patience to get more about the Ambitions or something as ridiculous as the entirety of Seeking Mr. Eaten's Name, then I think we're doing just fine. Pay what you want to pay, but don't look at a minority of options and say that's the direction the game is taking.
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The pursuit of purple is my penultimate purpose. I'm also happy to be a Persuasive Patron for any who might need one!
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Diosthenes
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/nathaniel%20grayborne - so very gone. Going NORTH does that to you.
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Mr Sables
Posts: 597
12/12/2016
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mnemosius wrote:
most of the stories in Fallen London are 100% free. [...] If all it costs us is patience to get more about the Ambitions or something as ridiculous as the entirety of Seeking Mr. Eaten's Name, then I think we're doing just fine.
At the risk of playing devil's advocate . . .
FBG are absolutely amazing - free festivals, new games, merchandise, a social base, dedicated staff . . . a lot of unfinished content at the free level, though. This range from stories to ambitions to areas to half-finished mechanics . . . it's something I think can put a lot of new players off, especially new players considering paying more, because it's difficult to invest money when all you see as a free player is a lot of unfinished material. I think - once unfinished content is complete - I'll personally have far less complaints.
If we imagine all unfinished content finished -? We've a game with a huge amount of free content, very well written, and with a staff that I honestly can't praise enough . . . the paid-for content is for extras, so you pay-as-you-go for what you want . . . it's a perfect way to support the staff, as well as to help them maintain an income through the EF and other extras.
I just think it's difficult at the moment . . .
I can see why people love it, as well as why people think it 'worse'. It's right in that awkward teenage puberty of games, where it's neither one thing or the other, and somewhat transitioning with the various improvements and tweaks and additions . . . it's a weird time to come into FL, so I can see why it'd put people off, but there's a huge amount to equally retain a large playerbase.
It's difficult to be patient, though, when you see some content unfinished years after promised, some over five years old or so, and you see new projects and new material and . . . well . . . it's when your cynical side asks whether it's been forgotten or abandoned.
The free stories are often the unfinished ones. The unfinished ones are often left incomplete for years.
It can understandably leave a bad impression for the free players . . .
In turn that affects whether then invest RL money.
So . . . yeah . . . it could be a problem.
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Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 787
12/12/2016
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Robin Alexander's first post sums up my opinion pretty well, I do not have much to add... but will do so anyway :P
Let's start with the one thing the OP mentioned that I totally disagree with:
Ambrose66 wrote:
And, oh yeah, why do I need a dictionary of neologisms every line I read? As a non-native speaker, the language of Fallen London is one of its biggest selling points for me. All the words this game has taught me! I'm disappointed every time I don't need to check at least one expression in an online dictionary when playing new content. I love FL's words. If you do not like the style this game's written in, you should really ask yourself whether it's the right game for you.
As for the rest, you certainly do raise some valid points there, but I guess a lot of it's down to the price of success. We do want Failbetter to be successful, right? I agree that some (but not all) of the recent ES/new content felt a bit like a never-ending series of vague hints and cliffhangers. It's a bit like those mainstream superhero comic series which I never could read for very long - i.e. "read all about the X-Men teaming up to fight the ultimate super-baddie, who turns out to be just a pawn of the REAL ultimate super-baddie and so on ad infinitum etc pp" - it does get old after a while.
I've been playing since 2010, with one or two breaks, and I do think there are a lot of issues - mechanics and content - they should have addressed yesterday. But it's their company, I trust them to know best how to run it. And if I reach that point where I feel a bit "meh" about everything again, why, I'll just go on another hiatus. Which I'm actually planning to do: as soon as my Seeker has gone North, I think I'll leave the game behind for a while (maybe up to a full year), and hopefully come back to find lots of new free content has been added (not counting on it though, since they'll also be working on Sunless Skies...)!
Yes, I'm a bit miffed that the "special Christmas story" won't be free either (though we don't know how much it'll cost yet), but neither was The Gift, which was one of their best stories ever... but yeah, I think ever since Governorship in Port Carnelian they haven't added a really big chunk of new, free content, and we could certainly do with something like that again, to keep both paying and non-paying players happy.
To reiterate: Robin Alexander wrote:
Just ask yourself if the pros are worth the cons for you. That's the TL;DR of my post, really. Sorry for using so many words. 
edited by Rupho Schartenhauer on 12/12/2016
--
Rupho Schartenhauer has killed a Master, well: most of it.
Cortez the Killer has killed a Master, definitely.
Deepdelver has become the progenitor of London's brightest star. It's... complicated.
Dr. Kvirkvelia, gone NORTH on 23/12/1894.
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Hannah Flynn
Administrator
Posts: 491
12/12/2016
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Something about the way we work which might interest you in the context of this thread: it's far less likely these days that we would start something without a good idea of when we could finish a minimum version of it.
There are more of us (16 now), working on more games, and we have a producer, so our time is more closely measured and managed. This also means we have a good idea of how much time we'll need to finish content that is currently outstanding, and helps us look for that time in our schedules. I really believe we're the most efficient and capable of making things that we've ever been.
The not-great part is that there are already a lot of loose threads. More than we could finish off if it's all we did for a year. It's probably not obvious how long it takes to make our stories, but for example: each of our writing and tech staff spends anywhere up to a day's worth of time just on support tickets every week. I hope you'll trust me when I say that we're always looking for ways to get better.
So, we continue to (sweetly) demand your patience, and provide the best stories, the best support and the kindest community spaces for you in the meantime.
All shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.
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Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
12/12/2016
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The word count of the free portions of the game is currently twice as long as the Bible.
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The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
12/12/2016
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Perhaps the support tickets could be outsourced to the community first? I know I have been guilty of sending reports for things that ended up being mechanics (or just for this is a major problem effecting everyone)and passing them through a community filter first may help. (If this was any other community I wouldn't even suggest this)
If it ends up being a major problem or something that requires programming we could send it up to FBG.
edited by suinicide on 12/12/2016
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Ambrose66
Posts: 55
12/12/2016
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First I want to apologise for being too brutal. I've been playing this game for some years and I don't have much to do, except some parts where I need some serious grinding. I stand by my opinion, though, that the writing has become weaker, only exception being the part where you become a governator.
When complaining about prices, I'm thinking about choiceofgames that often has stories that contain 100k+ words for just a few euros and, you can play them again in order to see different choices. I've tried this in FL, but when I realised how much I have to play in order to reach the same part I quit.
Blaine Davidson said:
Blaine Davidson wrote:
The stories have always been vague and eccentric. Lots of hinting at, plenty of references to other content. The only instance where I can remember the game outright stating anything was when you discover what Sorrow Spiders do with eyes. And that made the effect that more impactful. I will agree I'd like more closure on some of the stories but if you really want closure I suppose you can meet Mr. Eaten.
So, is Mr. eaten story finished? It's one of the most horrifying stories and I really wanted it to be finished. I like the mistery, but some parts are extremely ambiguous. I'm trying to raise my hunger and I just can't go in the second digits.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
12/12/2016
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Mr. eaten is finished, though one of the endings is rather ambiguous.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
12/12/2016
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Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
Yes, I'm a bit miffed that the "special Christmas story" won't be free
There's a Special Christmas Story? Did I miss an announcement?
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Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 787
12/12/2016
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Kukapetal wrote:
Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
Yes, I'm a bit miffed that the "special Christmas story" won't be free There's a Special Christmas Story? Did I miss an announcement? Apparently, yes:
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic23683-its-snowing-in-fallen-london.aspx#post177508
Absintheuse wrote:
Closer to Christmas day, a new festive premium story will be available for purchase featuring everyone's favourite Mayor of London and the Empress' Shadow!
edited by Rupho Schartenhauer on 12/12/2016
--
Rupho Schartenhauer has killed a Master, well: most of it.
Cortez the Killer has killed a Master, definitely.
Deepdelver has become the progenitor of London's brightest star. It's... complicated.
Dr. Kvirkvelia, gone NORTH on 23/12/1894.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
12/12/2016
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I think it'd be nice if the gift became free, make Christmas stories like a long term ES for people. (Also hey, its Christmas)
edited by suinicide on 12/12/2016
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
12/13/2016
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Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
Apparently, yes:
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic23683-its-snowing-in-fallen-london.aspx#post177508
Ah, there it is. Right in front of my face :P
Thanks!
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mired
Posts: 15
12/13/2016
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I think when you've been playing for a while, it can be really easy to get into a funk. I've been playing about 4 years now, and became an EF last year even though my interest was dwindling a bit because I wanted to support FBG. One thing that helped was seeking, and ending my original character so I could really focus on my new one, and see some of the sites anew. The whole seeking thing took about 4 months, which gave me plenty of time to shore up my last goals.
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Gul al-Ahlaam
Posts: 225
12/13/2016
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Retaining good writers and artists is expensive. If you want to make art, your art has to make money. The fact that so much of this game is free in the first place is a minor miracle. If you enjoy something, and have the means to contribute to it, you should do that, so that the thing can continue to exist and improve, and so that the people who made it are rewarded for their hard work. If you don't have the means, be happy with what is available. Beggars can't be choosers.
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The Uncanny Hierophant.
The Jewel-Eyed Prince.
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