Pumpkinhead
Posts: 516
11/29/2016
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The soul trade is apparently a very lucrative business, but why? It's apparently not approved of by the Masters, and as far as I can remember, the only thing players can really do with souls is collect or sell them for a profit. What exactly do the devils do with all those souls?
Also, what do the Masters have against it? Does being soulless somehow hinder your ability to be turned into lacre?
The answers to my questions probably are in the soul trade storyline, but I haven't played that, so I'm clueless.
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McGunn/Bsymstad is on the slow boat, waiting to see if he can find out what death is. (I'm done with London for now. Thanks for everything!)
Amanda Albright is a *spoiler* now, like she always wanted.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
11/29/2016
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The answer is a lot of shrugging and conjecture. Maybe they need them for pollination, maybe they just like having a goal, maybe they're trying to hurt the judgements.
As for the masters, since soullessness effects emotions, it could reduce or increase the amount of love stories made, and they don't want that.
edited by suinicide on 11/29/2016
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Pumpkinhead
Posts: 516
11/29/2016
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Thanks for the answer!
suinicide wrote:
As for the masters, since soullessness effects emotions, it could reduce or increase the amount of love stories made, and they don't want that.
Wait, it could increase the number of love stories? Wouldn't the masters want that though?
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McGunn/Bsymstad is on the slow boat, waiting to see if he can find out what death is. (I'm done with London for now. Thanks for everything!)
Amanda Albright is a *spoiler* now, like she always wanted.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
11/29/2016
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That's the goal, but some masters just want to leave, which they can once they are no more love stories.
edited by suinicide on 11/29/2016
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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PSGarak
Posts: 834
11/29/2016
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I think that to the Masters, allowing the Soul Trade is just a point of negotiation between them and Hell. They're capitalists, and Hell has things of value (such as Nevercold Brass). It's a bargaining chip they can use, and a particularly useful one since it's not them losing anything. The effect on love stories is probably a concern to be weighted, but not the primary reason they allow it.
Extremely tangential spoilers from this month's EE:
[spoiler]The Ambassador to Hell explicitly confirms that Hell bargains rights to the Soul Trade. They pulled out of Wolfstack Docks for a year, though I don't recall what they got in return.[/spoiler]
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/PSGarak
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J. L.
Posts: 7
11/29/2016
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In Sunless Sea, the Wistful Deviless asks you to get her some souls. She says, [spoiler]"I'm not going to eat them! We don't eat souls, usually. I'm not clear how that story got around. I just - I told you that I miss London. I miss Hell. I'd like a keepsake. And all souls are ours, you know, by right."[/spoiler]
So it seems that Souls 'belong' to Hell. Maybe Hell manufactures souls? That would explain some things. Maybe devils need lots to feel alive.
edited by Jel on 11/29/2016
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The Extravagant Wordsmith accepts all social actions. Alert me before snubbing me.
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Eglantine-Fox
Posts: 872
12/1/2016
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Pumpkinhead wrote:
The soul trade is apparently a very lucrative business, but why? It's apparently not approved of by the Masters, and as far as I can remember, the only thing players can really do with souls is collect or sell them for a profit. What exactly do the devils do with all those souls?
Also, what do the Masters have against it? Does being soulless somehow hinder your ability to be turned into lacre?
The answers to my questions probably are in the soul trade storyline, but I haven't played that, so I'm clueless.
The Masters approve of, or at least do not greatly dislike, the licensed soul trade. The devils involved keep ledgers, the souls are stamped and duties paid, and all runs smoothly.
The unlicensed soul trade, by spirifers who do not pay the duties on soul exportation from London, is the one the Masters are vehement on punishing.
When one has an Embassy guest room, and asks a devil about the whole thing:
Find out more about the soulless
How many of the soulless are there in London? What are the effects of losing one's soul? If anyone knows, it is a devil.
A candid discussion with a devil?
"Despite what you have heard, no more than eight or nine in a hundred of the Neath's mortal citizens have misplaced their souls. The Masters of the Bazaar have been most forward-thinking in their trade policies. The effects? Well, nothing one would really notice. A little depression of mood. A pleasing melancholy here and there. Perhaps a lessening in appreciation of beauty. But does not beauty cause so much of the world's difficulties? Look at these things - the contents of pockets and such. The detritus of spirifage. Are they beautiful? No. But they have value nonetheless."
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Eglantine Fox, the charming and androgynous Correspondent, teetering between hobbies of seduction and self-destruction.
Siobhan O'Malley, Irish patriot (or 'bl__dy Fenian' if you're impolite).
Isidore Day, an up-and-coming London gentleman. All allegations of wrongdoing are categorically denied.
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PSGarak
Posts: 834
12/1/2016
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J. L. wrote:
In Sunless Sea, the Wistful Deviless asks you to get her some souls. She says, [spoiler]"I'm not going to eat them! We don't eat souls, usually. I'm not clear how that story got around. I just - I told you that I miss London. I miss Hell. I'd like a keepsake. And all souls are ours, you know, by right."[/spoiler]
So it seems that Souls 'belong' to Hell. Maybe Hell manufactures souls? That would explain some things. Maybe devils need lots to feel alive.
edited by Jel on 11/29/2016
The particular phrasing, "ours... by right," does not imply that Hell owns or creates the souls. It implies a claim on them, like a birthright, or a treaty, or perhaps just a general feeling of entitlement. In fact I would go so far as to say that it implies a lack of actual ownership. No one uses that phrase to describe something they actually own. They use it as moral justification to take something that they don't already own.
There's still an open question of where that claim comes from. Maybe the Devils use the souls in order to create something, and see that process as the actual "purpose" of a soul. Maybe the Devils were specifically created in order to do something to/with souls. Maybe they were given domain over souls by some higher power, the same way the Masters are given domain over different types of traded goods.
Maybe the Deviless in question is a stereotypically self-centered aristocrat, who believes the whole world rightfully belongs to her. Post-revolution Hell seems to really dislike the old aristocracy, and they might be justified in that.
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/PSGarak
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
12/1/2016
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The soul trade
[spoiler]actually begins in the High Wilderness, at the Forge of Souls, where souls are manufactured on demand. One gets the feeling that the Devils are running a black market version of the legal economy.[/spoiler]
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Lewdswhen
Posts: 1
12/5/2016
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Anne Auclair wrote:
The soul trade
[spoiler]actually begins in the High Wilderness, at the Forge of Souls, where souls are manufactured on demand. One gets the feeling that the Devils are running a black market version of the legal economy.[/spoiler]
Given that souls don't seem to be good for anything until AFTER they've had some life experience to fatten them up, it seems to be more like stealing crops than counterfeiting.
Given that with a seal of Red Science and the Judgement's Egg you can create the Momento Mori, plus given that souls are the prime material of the reality warping judgements, evidence seems to point to souls being capable of reality-warping to some degree.
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Fadewalker
Posts: 136
12/6/2016
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I think it is still a mystery at present; we know little about the true intention of the devils except some uncertain hints. Not much lore in Soul Trade, either. Here is all that I know and what I am seeking...
Devils chase after souls, appearing to be quite instinctive and maybe intentional. They enjoy the company of souls and they will boast of their collections. They long for souls, sometimes as desperate as a Buzzing Beggar. They dislike stained souls. They "save" souls, from going ahead to heavens. They price exceptional souls higher.
If devils indeed have intentions, I think one of the intentions may be to stop souls becoming Judgements or making Judgements stronger, so as not to make natural laws stronger and lights brighter. Or maybe just let them stay in the Neath and pollinate.
Why is the exchange? From the honey-tinted image of London lit up with souls in the ES Discernment,the devils might need the soul trade and exchange just to keep souls in movement. The difference between two souls does not matter, but the movement does. I think the exchange is for pollination, but I can't think of an intact chain of metaphors of that pollination. And what is "lit up with souls instead of lamplight" and the prisoner-honey-producing bees named "lamplighter"? Is there any true connection? Maybe devils also need the reality to be somewhat fixed(or twisted?) by some souls?
Devils dislike stained souls, the souls which carry neath colours... this may result from: 1. a stained soul might never become a judgement or part of a judgement since it is marked with illegal colours, so they are uninterested; 2. the lights of neath colours will still exist in the liberated night in the Neath, are they carrying some unlovable laws? 3. other reasons (e.g. stained souls might not pollinate well, are they false pollen? ). Maybe not the first one, considering the attitude of devil intimates after you stain your soul, and the Discerning Deviless makes such great efforts to remove the stain of Cosmogone... but for the second and the third, I'm not sure about them.
And for the Forge of Soul, I think it is more of a place where souls go (and be forged into something else) than a place where souls come from. It is the place where "they make us for". The origin of souls are weird... Considering that even the animated furniture in Polythreme might also have souls, I think maybe they come from the Mountain, or just what lives are born with.
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A fervent supporter of the Council and the Masters.
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