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What would you want the Sixth City to be?

Xenu's Paradox Posts: 18 10/25/2016	If we get a follow-up to Sunless Skies that returns to the Neath and depicts the events following London's departure for the High Wilderness, what Surface city would you like to take its place as home of the Bazaar? Personally, I think Fallen Chicago has a nice ring to it. Taken in '31 after Mayor Thompson sold it make himself President for life, Chicago brings tommy guns and Model As to the Neath, along with All Capone and the Untouchables. As for the name of this hypothetical game? Sunless Streets.
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Sara Hysaro Moderator Posts: 4514 10/30/2016	That is quite enough. We're supposed to be polite and respectful on the forum, not aggressive. I'm locking the thread for the time being so we can all cool off. -- edited by Sara Hysaro on 10/30/2016 -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome. Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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Estelle Knoht Posts: 1751 10/28/2016	Look, you two had an disagreement about how a future game might be, then it turned into a fight over sharp words. Both of you don't have any ill intention to begin with. None of you are some evil mastermind trying to socially ruin the other side. Please stop hating each other or trying to hate each other over this. Neither of you deserve the hate and scone of each other. Nor is it the right thing to do. -- Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady. I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Passionario Posts: 777 10/26/2016	London. Bring it back to the Surface and have it fall again. -- Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending Passion: Profile, Appearance
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Sara Hysaro Moderator Posts: 4514 10/27/2016	Easy now. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome. Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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Estelle Knoht Posts: 1751 10/27/2016	I am probably not a good person to say this, but maybe this argument isn't worth having, you two? Also, be civil and kind and blame Sinning Jenny whenever in doubt. edited by Estelle Knoht on 10/27/2016 -- Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady. I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Arcanuse Posts: 89 10/27/2016	So, just to throw my uneducated opinion into the discussion, a fallen London sequel is a bit, complicated. So, to dissect the issue, let’s start with Fallen London. It came first, and we can all agree it’s the root from which the other games came from. Next is Silver Tree, which is technically a prequel, as it was released after Fallen London, but plot wise is before Fallen London. After that we have Sunless Sea, which is a side-story to Fallen London. It shares the same universe, but not the same focus. In this case, it’s taking a look at all these places you can hear about in London, but could never visit. Time-wise, it takes the same rough span of time as the events of Fallen London, without going into things that are actually happening in London at that time. You are a zailor, not a citizen of London, after all. And then we have Sunless Skies, the problem game of the timeline. Now, unless the people of London somehow manage to remain a major power in the neath after Paris falls, we have a problem. To put it simply, If Paris falls, is London still a major power? Y/N If Y, then Sunless Skies can share the timeline/universe. If N, then Sunless Skies cant share the timeline/universe, and is set in an AU. If Paris does not fall, that removes that issue entirely and Sunless Skies can share the timeline/universe. See the problem yet? Everything relies on Paris, which being such a major plot point is causing problems, what with being in a state of flux. But really, that doesn’t answer anything about a FL sequel. It does straighten out the timeline a bit though. SO, getting back on track, we first have to agree on WHAT a sequel would be. Naturally, the easy answer would be “Fallen London 2”, which, assuming it happens before Paris is relevant is fairly simple to work out. Maybe one of Londons factions makes a powerplay and wins, changing Life in London as we know it. Not entirely likely, but it’s still plausible. Option #2 would be “Fallen Paris”, which is a bit more complicated. It’s still in the neath, most of the neaths factions are still here in some form, but it’s not exactly a true sequel. As to why that is, it would be because it’s not about London anymore, it’s about Paris, bringing its own culture, history, people, factions, etc. along with it. It would still be in the Fallen London Universe, just not exactly a sequel. Now, Sunless Sea is a bit different, as Fallen London is still a thing, and pretty much the same. By default as mentioned earlier, it’s a sidequel, not a sequel/prequel, but a sidequel. It takes place at the same time as Fallen London, but it’s not about fallen London. And once again, we come to Sunless Skies. Now, like sunless sea it’s a sidequel, focusing on a different part of the Fallen London Universe. Despite being in the future, the whether or not Fallen London actually still exists in its current form is a moot point. Let’s say Fallen London still exists in the neath, continuing along as it always has. Doesn’t matter one bit, because like sunless sea, it’s not about fallen London. Alternatively, let’s say that fallen London was, oh, dumped in space for whatever reason. Still irrelevant, as it’s not about Fallen London. So to summarize, Sunless Skies isn’t a true sequel OR something that can be considered a sequel at all. So, to finish my rambling on the matter, it’s all about what you consider a sequel really IS. Is it a game that comes later in the timeline? Is it a game that carries the same fundamental theme? That’s kinda the problem here, a real sequel can’t be agreed on because folks can’t agree on what IS a sequel. Anyways, just throwing this out there as something to think about. -- https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Arcanuse
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Estelle Knoht Posts: 1751 10/27/2016	That said, Sputum and Xenu, please stop. Please take a step back. You two had a disagreement about games. Games that might exist, or not. Now you are just fixated on making each other look bad and hurting each other with words. For what, and then what? Come to Hong Kong, kids, and enjoy the epic struggle for living space. Lack of resource and extreme urban density should make for some pretty painful grind. The utter lack of food production should make poverty even more horrid than London, but I guess.... actually, the historical effects would be pretty weird consider its ties to Britain and China. The lack of powerful characters might be a bigger problem, though, compared to other cities. -- Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady. I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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The Atumian Sputum Posts: 137 10/26/2016	Their other games don't matter here, and it's not a question of Failbetter's overall writing style - it's a question of Fallen London's, which does have a very definitive style. More Pratchett, more Gaiman, than Facebook's 'Mob Wars,' really, so I can't see a way in which a Chicago mafia game about Capone and the prohibition would bring about the same witty whimsy and absurdist humor as Fallen London is host to. edited by The Atumian Sputum on 10/26/2016 -- Straight outta Dahut.
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Lady Sapho Byron Posts: 770 10/26/2016	Leaving aside the question of wether or not the future is predetermined (I'm looking at you, Paris), I think a fallen New Orleans would be splendid: Neathy voodoo, Rubbery Lump po' boys, Things in the surrounding swamps, the Stolen Delta, Neathy Mardi Gras (think of the floats!) ... -- http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Lady%20Sapho%20L%20Byron Fighting the Menace of Corsetry Since 1892.
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Snowskeeper Posts: 575 10/27/2016	Sunless Skies is NOT a direct sequel. We don't even know if it's set in the same continuity. And you really need to either calm down or step away from this discussion at this point. You are getting way too angry about this. edited by Snowskeeper on 10/27/2016 -- S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
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Passionario Posts: 777 10/27/2016	Snowskeeper wrote: Rethinking the "Berlin" part. The Austrian empire was, despite being basically Germany's sock puppet, the most powerful in the world at the time, and Vienna was renowned as a center of culture, tolerance, love, and art. They'd probably be dominating at least the early half of the 21st century, assuming Britain falls, so Vienna seems like a good candidate for the 6th. There are other forces at work in Vienna and they do not appear to have the Bazaar's best interests in mind. -- Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending Passion: Profile, Appearance
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Emain Ablach Posts: 348 10/28/2016	Xenu's Paradox wrote: (things said) Exactly. I dunno who this guy thinks he is, but the blatant personal attacks and grade-school insults would have copped him a ban by now on just about every forum I've visited. That said: the Masters certainly would like to buy Paris, but there's no guarantee they'll be able to do so. Besides, the his thread isn't called "What does the existing lore say the Sixth City is probably going to be?" (things said) This thread isn't called "Insult/attack each other until only one is standing", either, nor is it called "what is west of London".See, we all talk about some off topic things, once in a while. A thread is never only about its main topic, however, because each topic has some sub-topics linked to it. What the lore currently says is, I think, linked to the topic. As you say, there is no guarantee about the next city. Some story let us believe it will in all likelihood be Paris, but the same story states it is possible to keep the Masters from getting Paris. What exactly makes you think, and others, that Vienna would be such an interesting city ? I'm really curious, since I don't know well its history. -- Went NORTH. Got salted. Never came back. We won't remember him. https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Emain%20Ablach
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Snowskeeper Posts: 575 10/28/2016	Atumian, what was the discussion in question? Very difficult to judge your innocence (or guilt) when you're not showing what conversation you started, or how you started it. And you and Xenu both need to stop pretending you were innocent in this. You were both throwing insults around like crazy. And, as you've probably noticed, Xenu is receiving far more downvotes than you are. The only post of yours that was downvoted was the one which was comprised entirely of insults. Emain, Vienna was the cultural center of the time, and was ruled by the Hapsburgs--the dynasty which ruled the Holy Roman Empire. The Austrio-Hungarian Empire was also the country which had the biggest part in initiating World War One, and fell very quickly soon after; that's a pretty decent reason to make a deal with the Masters. edited by Snowskeeper on 10/28/2016 edited by Snowskeeper on 10/28/2016 -- S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
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Zoe DeGeest Posts: 104 10/29/2016	The PM is for a past discussion, I believe, not this particular thing. But it might be best not to talk like jurors right under what seems to be a very upset post. -- Zoe DeGeest, your humble churchgoing grocer, now respectable.
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Snowskeeper Posts: 575 10/27/2016	But it's not part of the same continuity. The Sea Captain's actions are not felt in London--not even the ones that are guaranteed to happen. Regardless, it being a sequel to Sunless Sea doesn't make it a sequel to Fallen London. -- S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
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Luminen Walker Posts: 172 10/28/2016	Title of the thread: "What would you want the Sixth City to be?" Content of the thread: "Let's all argue about why everyone elses answer is wrong." My preference would be Vienna or Paris. The Bazaar cannot fail and they seem like sure bets. edited by TeslaWalker on 10/28/2016 -- 1 - Cpt. Martin Walker, a Paramount and Marvellous Dreamer. 2 - Ariana Crivelli, a silent and sagacious lady.
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The Atumian Sputum Posts: 137 10/28/2016	Xenu's Paradox wrote: Exactly. I dunno who this guy thinks he is, but the blatant personal attacks and grade-school insults would have copped him a ban by now on just about every forum I've visited. Okay. I'm done. The downvotes, the self righteous ridicule for defending myself, the anger gotten from me returning an insult after I was reported for disagreeing is too much. This is ridiculous. Forgive me if I 'baited discussion' (as the mods once told me I did when threatening me with a ban for voicing an opinion that eventually led to two other people, with whom I had scarce connection, starting a separate argument that I had no part in) but I really didn't expect to be the one so hated for being called 'puerile' and 'ridiculous' and then being reported for 'personal attacks' that had never happened at that point. Voicing your opinion is a bad thing, apparently, worthy of both a report and a threat of a ban from the beloved mods for something you had no part in, and if you don't report someone for cursing and calling you puerile, they will report you for disagreeing with them. A lot of this community is generally really, really wonderful people. I love it. I've made lots of dear friends from this community, and I respect a large part of it to no end. Unfortunately, this abuse, from both the mods, Xenu, and the populace, is rather too much. I'm done. Feel free to ban, downvote, name-call away for this post. -- Straight outta Dahut.
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Sara Hysaro Moderator Posts: 4514 10/27/2016	Let's not throw around insults here. We should be polite and respectful on the forum. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome. Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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ForScience Posts: 69 10/27/2016	Arcanuse hit the nail on the head. Plenty of series (especially video games) are connected by only a few common threads- a shared universe, a recurring character- and nothing else. Personally, I motion that the Bazaar takes the entire state of Florida. It's not doing anybody any good anyway. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/ForScience - The Intrepid Scholar. A dauntless scientist.
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Scienceandponies Posts: 247 10/26/2016	Passionario wrote: London. Bring it back to the Surface and have it fall again. I imagine whoever pulls off that bit of trickery on the Masters and Bazaar will certainly earn themselves a trip down a well.
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The Master Posts: 804 10/25/2016	Drake Dynamo wrote: First and foremost, London is not leaving. It's just some folks going their own way. Second, Paris is the sixth city. This is known. Thirdly, this would mean the end of Fallen London as a game. Fourth, gangsters and tommy-guns are not Failbetter's style. Finally, if you're going to take a US city take DC and get this messed up government out of our lives. edited by Drake Dynamo on 10/25/2016 Actually, didn't one exceptional story basically say Paris is most likely not going to be the 6th city? -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Lolwolfking A very ruthless and daring doctor of the neath. No more gift exchanges, im getting too many and I can barely hold these. He has knowledge of a certain enigma, ask, you will get a clue.
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suinicide Posts: 2409 10/25/2016	It said the masters are going to try, but it gave you an option to try to stop it. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence. RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Snowskeeper Posts: 575 10/26/2016	I'd like to see Berlin. Without the British Empire in the game, Germany would almost certainly have done a lot better in WWI. And Wilson would have found it a lot more difficult to come up with a reason for entering. Drake Dynamo wrote: Fourth, gangsters and tommy-guns are not Failbetter's style. Nonsense. The "gangsters" part is ridiculous on the face of it. There are already gangsters in Fallen london. Tommy guns-wise: Failbetter goes loud and brash all the time. Bombings, canon fire, shootouts, etc. It's not their primary focus... But then, the gangsters wouldn't be either. edited by Snowskeeper on 10/26/2016 -- S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
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Catherine Raymond Posts: 2518 10/27/2016	Emain Ablach wrote: New York, Las Vegas or Los Angeles don't seem ok to me, I don't know why. But New Orleans... now that had be a good setting ! I like the idea ! Blues, jazz, voodoo, vampires, ghosts, bayous, french influence. Paris seems nice, but my poor understanding of history gives me the feeling Paris and London wouldn't be very different. But Paris is the city of love, and that's the very reason it's going to be the sixth. edited by Emain Ablach on 10/26/2016 I admit that New Orleans would be excellent, set in the Neath, no matter what era we're talking about. But the thought of New York's subways running in the Neath--running beneath the Neath--really enchants me. -- Cathy Raymond http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355 Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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maricolous Posts: 56 10/26/2016	Heck, I'd play Fallen New York. Heck, I'd LIVE Fallen New York, as long as my favorite coffeehouse still stands. Do spacebats prevent the spread of gentrification? -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Maricolousa (Finished) http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Kraine Mystic on the way to becoming a Glassworker, on occasional hiatus.
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Snowskeeper Posts: 575 10/27/2016	Xenu, you need to reread that quote you just posted. Sequel to SUNLESS SEA. NOT Fallen London. -- S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
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Mr. Secrets Posts: 101 10/28/2016	There will never be a 6th city, one way or another London will be the last. Whether or not Mr. Fires succeeds in holding the bazaar here, The Liberation occurs, or whatever Seeking the Name involves happens I very much doubt there will be anything left to make a 6th city with. If there is a 6th city though, I believe it was stated to be Paris. -- Mr. Secrets - We Are In Our Ascendance. There Will Be Ten And Then All Shall Be Well And All Shall Be Well And All Manner of Things Shall Be Well. The Straveling Solider - The Straveling Soldier, The Straveling Soldier hates and hates the beings Solar.
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Passionario Posts: 777 10/29/2016	Snowskeeper wrote: Kind of curious about what's going on in Vienna. Not asking for spoilers, but could I ask where I could find out more about it? You can visit the place itself in Sunless Sea. Some of the other pieces of the puzzle include The Waltz That Moved The World exceptional story amd some of the later stages of SMEN storyline. edited by Passionario on 10/29/2016 -- Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending Passion: Profile, Appearance
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M. Cinder Posts: 25 10/29/2016	I don't think the Bazaar's going to survive long enough for there to be a Sixth City.
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Lady Sapho Byron Posts: 770 10/28/2016	Unlike previous cities, word has gotten out, world-wide about London, about the benefits and banes of a city in the Neath. Although it is extremely unlikely, what if almost nobody wants the deal the Master's offer? What if they have to settle for somewhere like Yuma? -- http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Lady%20Sapho%20L%20Byron Fighting the Menace of Corsetry Since 1892.
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Sam Stephens Posts: 73 10/26/2016	I think there are a number of qualities that make the Bazaar consider claiming a city. Among these are epic romances, of course, but they also seem to focus on large cities of great, even era-defining civilizations. The First City was from the Levant, where humankind's earliest empires sprouted, the Second from Egypt, one of the dominating Mediterranean nations, the Third from the Mayan Empire, and the only one from the Americas, the Fourth from Mongolia, whose riders threatened even Rome, and the Fifth from Britain, who eventually fought back against the other European powers during a competition of rapid colonization. I have a few favorite candidates for a Sixth City that I think fit these criteria (all of these are American; I apologize for my bias): New York. It's much like London, in several respects. A massive metropolis (America's largest), home to millions of citizens, a prominent seaport which could easily connect to the Unterzee, and brimming with artistic and theatrical endeavor. I love Anne Auclair's vision of a 1930's Depression-era Neathy New York. The times were certainly dark enough to suit the dark of the Neath. Las Vegas. In "Amusing Ourselves to Death," Neil Postman posits that Las Vegas embodies late-twentieth century America's spirit: entertainment-obsessed, gluttony mixed with glitz, glamor, and gambling. And as the Bazaar always looks to love, the Masters may find Sin City interesting, at least. But even as I suggest it, I personally think this choice unlikely, due to its situation in the desert and improbably connection to the zee and the rest of the Neath. That said, I doubt Karakorum had any seaports either. At least, modern Mongolia doesn't have a coastline. So maybe Vegas is a possibility after all. Finally, Los Angeles. Much like Las Vegas, this is a city that embodies the spirit of modern America: love of entertainment, especially film, as well as international business and trade. It has a seaport, like London, and a significantly higher population than Las Vegas. If I could choose one city that embodies the 21st-century world, it'd be Los Angeles. As for a futuristic city, as Catherine Raymond suggested, I haven't the foggiest idea. We'll have to wait and see which nations, and which cities, take defining roles in the future. China is certainly a major economic power, and Japan is certainly a major cultural influence, at least in the gaming world. Maybe Beijing or Tokyo? Or something I haven't considered? edited by Sam Stephens on 10/26/2016 -- Hello, delicious friends! I can be found here: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sam%20Stephens I'm open to all non-menacing social actions. I particularly enjoy a good mystery. I'm also a Corespondent who can teach at your Orphanage.
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Sam Stephens Posts: 73 10/26/2016	Good God, that was longer than I originally intended. If only my upcoming Physics paper were as easy as lore speculation, haha. -- Hello, delicious friends! I can be found here: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sam%20Stephens I'm open to all non-menacing social actions. I particularly enjoy a good mystery. I'm also a Corespondent who can teach at your Orphanage.
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Emain Ablach Posts: 348 10/26/2016	New York, Las Vegas or Los Angeles don't seem ok to me, I don't know why. But New Orleans... now that had be a good setting ! I like the idea ! Blues, jazz, voodoo, vampires, ghosts, bayous, french influence. Paris seems nice, but my poor understanding of history gives me the feeling Paris and London wouldn't be very different. But Paris is the city of love, and that's the very reason it's going to be the sixth. edited by Emain Ablach on 10/26/2016 -- Went NORTH. Got salted. Never came back. We won't remember him. https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Emain%20Ablach
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Snowskeeper Posts: 575 10/27/2016	Rethinking the "Berlin" part. The Austrian empire was, despite being basically Germany's sock puppet, the most powerful in the world at the time, and Vienna was renowned as a center of culture, tolerance, love, and art. They'd probably be dominating at least the early half of the 21st century, assuming Britain falls, so Vienna seems like a good candidate for the 6th. -- S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
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NotaWarlus Posts: 9 10/27/2016	I'd always liked the idea that the sixth city would be Paris, and the seventh New York. We already know the masters have an interest in buying Paris from Napoleon, so I go with that. I feel like New York would be ideal for the seventh and final city because it's kinda the center of the modern world (Okay, less so these days, but look how many movies are set in New York and try to tell me it's not a city of stories).
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Catherine Raymond Posts: 2518 10/26/2016	Xenu's Paradox wrote: Drake Dynamo wrote: First and foremost, London is not leaving. It's just some folks going their own way. Second, Paris is the sixth city. This is known. Thirdly, this would mean the end of Fallen London as a game. Fourth, gangsters and tommy-guns are not Failbetter's style. Finally, if you're going to take a US city take DC and get this messed up government out of our lives. edited by Drake Dynamo on 10/25/2016 1. Eh, the Sunless Skies announcement pretty much said that the Traitor Empress is packing up the whole city and taking it with her. That tells me most of the population, if not the streets and buildings themselves, are going. 2. According to one storyline, which also indicates that it can be averted. Also, Fallen Paris wouldn't really be all that different from Fallen London unless you advanced the timeline significantly. 3. Since Fallen London is set in 1894 and apparently the calendar advances roughly in real time, it would take about 40 years for it to catch up to this hypothetical scenario. Furthermore, a Sixth City game would no more mean the end of FL than Sunless Skies will, story-wise, or than The Silver Tree would have if it had been successful, in terms of self-competition. And I'd definitely rather see another SS-type game than a browser RPG. 4. Based on their repertoire of ... 3 whole games based on the in-house IP, one of which is a half-finished flop? I don't think that's nearly enough data points to draw a definitive conclusion as to what constitutes their "style". 5. D.C. isn't really a commercial center, which is what the Bazaar is after. edited by Xenu's_Paradox on 10/26/2016 The Bazaar is not, to my knowledge, interested in commercial centers per se (Karakorum wasn't one, even if the Silk Road as a whole was a commercial route). What the Bazaar is interested in is love stories, preferably stories of tragic love, and love is rather thin on the ground in Washington D.C., I think. -- Cathy Raymond http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355 Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Vincur Posts: 8 10/26/2016	The New Rome perhaps? -- Don't go alone out there.
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The Masked Felon Posts: 60 10/26/2016	Personally, I would love to see a fallen city with a hardboiled, neathy-noir kind of atmosphere, private investigators, femme fatales, maybe some 20's slang thrown into the mix. And fedoras, mustn't forget the fedoras. edited by The Masked Felon on 10/26/2016
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What would you want the Sixth City to be?