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10/24/2016
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Spoilers for the Rosegate story below, enter at your own risk.
[spoiler] Okay, for some reason, this story disturbs me a lot, so much that I've sort of paused on the last step of flavor harvesting. I mean, I've got Unaccountably Peckish x4 so clearly I've made some questionable choices up to this point, but the game asks you to:
1) kill a blemmigan whose life goal is to fix horrible poetry
2) taunt a sad Rattus Fabur before ripping its gallbladder out
3) vivisect a poor eager kid who just wanted to help his master achieve his dream
(and also something involving a Clay Man but I did that one way back so I don't really remember, but I think smashing him to pieces?)
I think the thing that gets my goat the most is that you get rewarded for doing all of that. It's quite a nice reward, really, and the more ruthless you are the more you get. The cigar's going to get made one way or another, and the Tobaccanist is going to pursue his art to its depths no matter what you choose. I just wish there was an option to rescue the creatures and/or eject the Tobaccanist from the zub because man, I think I am actually genuinely torn about this. (I know it's because of the cute animal thing. The next stop on my journey's going to be to drop off a prisoner for the Pirate King, so no qualms there, obviously.)
What did other people think of this story? I really liked the writing, and it's been able to affect me enough that I'm here writing a post about it, obviously. I'm curious what choices other people made when they got to this point. [/spoiler]
edited by nightday on 10/24/2016
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
10/24/2016
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The patron is neither of the above. It's hinted at very subtly, but the patron's real identity is
[spoiler]Bourdain, of the Seven against Nidah. When you first bring the Assistant back to Rosegate, the Tobacconist mentions that his patron is only interested in his project to the South, ie Nidah, and that he's run out of rubies trying to convince the patron otherwise. As seen at the end of the Gnomic Gallavant's questline, Bourdain's various agents use rubies to communicate with him, as whatever remains of him became stuck inside Frostfound's ruby chamber.[/spoiler]
--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
10/24/2016
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Oh yay, a thread to discuss my favorite zubmariner story. Now I don't have to start my own ^^
[spoiler]I didn't feel any hesitation or remorse over killing the Blemmigan. Blemmigans might be friendly and helpful as individuals, but once they form large enough groups they become vicious little monsters. Release them in Khan's Heart and the Melting Isles and in a short span of time they're eating people. They're one of the reasons Bugsby's Marsh is so bl__dy dangerous! To me stabbing the Blemmigan and using its blood wasn't any different from harpooning a zee beast and serving its remains for dinner.
What happened with the L.B. on the other hand was pretty upsetting - I rather like my Talkative Rattus Faber in FL and it was so awful seeing one so silent and depressed, with no hope left...and then having to participate in torturing it. And the Unfinished Man...I only hope he was one of the violent, criminally insane ones, because otherwise...ugh.
Guilt over the above and the fact the Assistant didn't want to be carved up made my Captain volunteer for the operating table. My captain wanted to see that ultimate cigar as much as the Crotchety Tobacconist and he was willing to offer up a pound of flesh for it. It wasn't until the Tobacconist announced his plans for a horrific, industrialized mass production in the Iron Republic that my Captain realized he had made a huge mistake...
This story left me with some pretty big questions though.
First, the motive of the mysterious and very wealthy patron who took the Crotchety Tobacconist in, funded his two decades of research, and eventually set up Rosegate for him. I think the patron is His Amused Lordship, given this rather revealing line:
Crotchety Tobacconist wrote:
"Our Patron has forsaken us. He's only interested in his project to the south."
But this leads to the question: why was His Amused Lordship willing to support such immoral experimentation and spend so much money for an underwater cigar? The sheer thirst for discovery?
Second, why did the Crotchety Tobacconist's decision to mass produce his underwater cigar in the Iron Republic increase Anarchist Supremacy? I assume they're going to be selling the new cigar to the Drownies...because who else is going to smoke it underwater? But why is the Assistant so terrified at the prospect that this will "set the zee ablaze"? Are there so many Drownie customers that this will literally cause the zee to boil? Or, alternatively, is a cigar that can be smoked underwater such a big violation of the laws of nature that it's spread will increase the reach of the Iron Republic's reality warping power? Or is the explanation more prosaic, with the revenue from these cigar sales providing a huge boost to the overall Anarchist cause? Maybe all of the above?[/spoiler]
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Chris Gardiner
Administrator
Posts: 539
10/25/2016
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Optimatum wrote:
The patron is neither of the above. It's hinted at very subtly, but the patron's real identity is
-SNIP-
That's some fine detective work.
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Fredward
Posts: 28
10/30/2016
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nightday wrote:
Man, being a Nice Person really doesn't get very far in this game, does it :P
Which is something I reeeaaalllyyy appreciate about this game. A lot of games have this vibe of Cosmic Karmic Policeman going on, where a 'bad' decision comes back to bite you at some point in the future and a good one will pay dividends, or otherwise the choices (good vs bad) have equal rewards even when it doesn't make much sense that they should.
The result, then, is that from a meta perspective you know being a good guy will be both easy on your conscience and thanks to the Cosmic Karmic Policeman that you'll be rewarded later for it. It's ridiculously lopsided and devalues the choice.
So I really appreciate that being a morally repugnant cannibal monster who can sell people's memories for phat stacks of dosh is a wholly rewarding endeavor in this game. It means that if you decide not to do those things it feels like you're actually taking a principled stance.
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
10/25/2016
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He was a French revolutionary from the surface, so probably.
--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Gul al-Ahlaam
Posts: 225
11/28/2016
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Personally, I figured the reason it raised Anarchist Supremacy had less to do with the cigar per se and more with the Iron Republic. In Sunless Sea it's sort of the proving ground for all of the Calendar Council's experiments and theories. It's where you recruit the Cannoneer, where you sell the Memento Mori to bring the revolution closer to success, and so on. Mass production of the cigars would make them a lot of money, and attract patrons and prestige, which would in turn enrich the plots and schemes of the Anarchists. That's my take, at least. As for why he chose to manufacture it there, well... who else would be daft enough to execute such a horrible procedure on such a grand scale?
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The Uncanny Hierophant.
The Jewel-Eyed Prince.
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Scienceandponies
Posts: 247
10/24/2016
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Optimatum wrote:
For the final choice I decided to sacrifice my own skin instead, so I didn't feel quite as guilty.
Though I don't think it's true that the cigar's definitely getting made. As far as I can tell from the game files, it's possible to make decisions so that the cigar fails and the Tobacconist gives up on his ambition. I'm not quite sure what determines that though.
I also sacrificed my own skin to save the assistant while helping with the other three parts (simply because there was no option to stop them, just sit in the other room and pout). I described the quest line to my roommate and he basically said I was an anthropocentric bastard.
There was an option to destroy the whole work during the skin decision, but I figured we'd sunk in enough horrible deeds already, we might as well see if the thing actually works.
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Marsha Glade
Posts: 73
11/29/2016
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I must be really cruel then...
Because when I had to make fun of a rat mechanic I was like "Eh sure, what else you need boss?"
But I drew the line when it started to involve my species... line.
"We have to kill this guy and use his blood in order for the plan to work!"
"How about you just let him give a few drops?"
"No we gotta kill him!"
"How about I do it? My blood compatible, right?"
"It is indeed. Alright. A few drops should suffice..."
Seriously what is up with that?
--
Marsha Glade - A rather charming thief.
Has her own zubmarine.
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Marsha Glade
Posts: 73
12/1/2016
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Just saying, it's like you can handle the loss of most of your skin but anyone else is instantly killed.
Like being shot in a movie. Bullets only hurt the hero, everyone else either dies instantly or they get a few parting words out before dying.
Also, I prioritise certain mammals/sea creatures over others. So yeah I'm species-ist.
edited by stylesrj on 12/1/2016
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Marsha Glade - A rather charming thief.
Has her own zubmarine.
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folklore364
Posts: 136
12/1/2016
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Anne Auclair wrote:
Actually, this is the Neath. The loss of most of your skin is hardly the worst that can happen.
Even more this is the Zee and Unterzee, where its far easier for mistakes to be fatal or worse. Isle of cats anyone?
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A correspondent who hungers for knowledge. May have doomed london to war with Hell.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/folklore364
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
10/25/2016
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Optimatum wrote:
He was a French revolutionary from the surface, so probably.
That explains a lot.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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MidnightVoyager
Posts: 858
10/24/2016
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I think the patron is [spoiler]on the Isle of Cats, given that the Isle of Cats is always to the south of Rosegate.[/spoiler]
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Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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ClearFavourite
Posts: 50
10/31/2016
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Optimatum wrote:
The patron is neither of the above. It's hinted at very subtly, but the patron's real identity is
[spoiler]Bourdain, of the Seven against Nidah. When you first bring the Assistant back to Rosegate, the Tobacconist mentions that his patron is only interested in his project to the South, ie Nidah, and that he's run out of rubies trying to convince the patron otherwise. As seen at the end of the Gnomic Gallavant's questline, Bourdain's various agents use rubies to communicate with him, as whatever remains of him became stuck inside Frostfound's ruby chamber.[/spoiler]
Dang it, I knew this before the DLC was out. Not sure if I can talk about things from the test-phase now though.
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The Boisterous Bounty-Hunter
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Trilby
Posts: 290
11/28/2016
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Anne Auclair wrote:
There's still the question of why [spoiler]the mass production of the underwater cigar increases Anarchist supremacy?[/spoiler]
If the flame of a cigar can burn underwater, what is stopping all flames from burning underwater as well?
The brimstone convention.
The dreams of fire.
The Earth.
The Neath.
The Zea.
The West.
The East.
The South.
The Garden.
Parabola.
All this will burn.
Perhaps even The North...
This, like many things, was destined from the beginning.
We have mearly advanced It.
Advanced one portion of What Comes.
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Trilby
Posts: 290
11/28/2016
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Trilby wrote:
Anne Auclair wrote:
There's still the question of why [spoiler]the mass production of the underwater cigar increases Anarchist supremacy?[/spoiler]
If the flame of a cigar can burn underwater, what is stopping all flames from burning underwater as well?
The brimstone convention.
The dreams of fire.
The Earth.
The Neath.
The Zea.
The West.
The East.
The South.
The Garden.
Parabola.
All this will burn.
Perhaps even The North...
This, like many things, was destined from the beginning.
We have mearly advanced It.
Advanced one portion of What Comes.
The depths and it's suffocating darkness, and the devouring chill of the waters that form the underzee.
If this cannot douse a flame, what else can a flame endure?
What would then quell such a flame?
What would extinguish the fire?
What would cool our now stubborn heats?
What would? What could?
I will not sleep well this night.
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