.JPG)
Zarrg
Posts: 31
10/13/2016
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If possible please answer without revealing TOO much of the games secrets. (My knowledge is already sullied by lore discovered outside the restraints of the game so don't worry to much, just no great plot twists) I am also relatively new to the game ( a fare amount into being a person of some importance) and I may ask things which would make no sense to a veteran.
1. What happens if one tries to seek the name of a master who is not Mr Eaten? what makes it so special?
2. How big is the Underzee? the size of a large lake or an ocean?
3. If all things are alive in Polythreme what separates the claymen from the rest of the objects there? Are they more refined? Are they the only things able to survive outside Polythreme?
4. How is Mr Eaten as long as you do not mention its name? Can you interact with it outside the SMEN? From a quote I read of Egypt which suggests that it is better at human-ish talk than the other masters and that it may have a connection to the sisterhood and bag a legend (I have gotten far enough along Bag a legend to have a vague knowledge of the relationship between the sisterhood and the masters).
5. Will all clothing worn have to be designed by Kasimir Malevich after the liberation of the night (assuming that he has been born by that point)
I know that the nature of the questions I have asked make my non-spoiler request almost impossible, sorry about that. These things are like an itch at the side of my mind and I am a bit to liberal at revealing story to myself that I am not yet ready to know (I recently discovered that in the context of my character I should be all but completely ignorant of the true purpose of the liberation of the night)
Thank you
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
10/13/2016
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Omega8520 wrote:
5. I have no idea who that is. Maybe?
Russian painter. Big on simple compositions of shapes and colours - particularly experiments along the lines of "what if we used just black?". I like his stuff, and, yeah, I can see some of the Calendar Council wanting him to do their uniforms.
Oh! And he was born in 1878. FL's current year is 1894, so Malevich's living in Ukraine and about to begin his artistic training. In a few years, he'll be in a good position to be swept up in the revolutionary fervour sweeping Europe.
edited by Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook on 10/13/2016
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Tozh Taurog
Posts: 114
10/13/2016
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Clothing by Malevich just might be the one thing that would sway me in favor of Liberation of the Night. (I'm imagining this 80's style large black off-shoulder sweater and a tiny red mini. Yes, it's a complete anachronism, but wouldn't it be cool?) And a knapsack of course. 
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A Correspondent. Thrilled to advance science by educating the younger generation at your Orphanage. A Marvellous player. Willing to talk about it to the press. An amateur horticulturist.
Usually up for socializing, especially with text.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TozhTaurog
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Gul al-Ahlaam
Posts: 225
10/16/2016
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THE HUMAN SOUL: A DIDACTIC EXCURSION
The following is a massively spoilerific analysis of just about everything anyone ever says about souls in FL and SS. Have fun!
(There are a couple conclusions I draw which may be a little iffy, resulting from confirmation bias and all that, so if you have some evidence to challenge them, I’d love to hear it! ^_^).
[spoiler]The Judgements are something like stars (golden, spherical, burning with nuclear fire), and something like angels (many-limbed, terrifying, maintain the laws of the universe), and something like mushrooms (they reproduce through spores). Of course, they don't spore themselves. That would be unseemly. They forge their spores in the Forge of Souls, and distribute them down the Chain.
Now, for a spore to fruit into a Judgement, it needs to gather... something. We are not entirely sure what. Notable things enrich it, as do especially terrible ones. The soul of a queen, a genius, or a prophet is closer to fruiting than a modest painter or scholar, and their souls are closer to fruiting than a tanner's. It's unclear whether society is arranged along a hierarchy of souls, or whether it is advancement in a societal hierarchy that enriches them so.
Of course, things this low on the Chain tend to have short lifespans, and make questionable decisions besides, so most souls would, under ordinary circumstances, never fruit. If one dies with one's soul in one's body, the soul is lost. Some say it returns to the High Wilderness, where the Judgements consume it. But there are other ways for a soul to die, too. If one spends too long in places that do not exist, their soul becomes pitted with imaginary radiations, and can never fruit. There are rites, as well, that can stain the soul, and leave it barren. And the Red Science, of course. But that goes without saying. This is all to say that without outside intervention, most souls would never fruit into Judgements.
The obvious solution, then, is to employ a method of pollination. This is where Devils come in. A youngish species, it would seem, the Devils are bee-like aliens, who made their hives on the edge of Parabola only just before the evolution of humans. The Judgements seem to have conscripted them to aid in the pollination of souls, or perhaps created them for that purpose. The Devils seem to resent the Judgements, and often seek to undermine their worship, but also seem helpless to act outside of the Judgements' will.
The mechanism by which pollination takes place, it seems, is the removal and replacement of souls. It is unreasonable to expect a single person to engage in enough Notable Behavior to bring their soul to fruition. Ordinary humans would certainly die before then, and those in the Neath tend to do something damaging to their souls at the first opportunity. Thus, the Devils seek out individuals with enriched souls, and remove them. These souls are passed between Devils, or hoarded in warehouses and caves, until some community-minded individual recovers them. Usually people seek their own souls, or try to return others’ lost souls to them, but it is rare that anyone ends up with the soul they lost. Souls of the same grade are, for the most part, indistinguishable. Some, to which strange things have been done, have certain… idiosyncrasies, but these are notable in their rarity.
This is why Devils are so preoccupied with the level of enrichment of the soul, and why they maintain such detailed guides to the Notable deeds and reputations of individuals. By this method, one person might engage in a number of notable deeds, enriching their soul. They would then lose this soul to a devil, and it would end up in somebody else, who would then perform more notable deeds, enriching the soul further, and so on, until the soul is prepared to fruit. Devils experience this Law of pollination as a kind of compulsion, to exchange souls faster and faster, raise them higher and higher. They resent it, but can do little about it.[/spoiler]
Sources: Mount Palmerston, Frostfound, The Boatman (At Opponent 40), Destinies (Long Road and Wednesday), The Loquacious Vicar, The Soul Trade, The Iron Republic, a melange of Devil-related stories and opportunity cards throughout London, and especially Discernment (there are a few branches available only to Spirfirers that openly spell a lot of this out).
EDIT 1: Formatting.EDIT 2: Cut a dubiously accurate theory about Parabola in light of new evidence. Thanks Omega8520! ^_^
edited by Gul al-Ahlaam on 10/16/2016
edited by Gul al-Ahlaam on 10/16/2016
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The Uncanny Hierophant.
The Jewel-Eyed Prince.
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Omega8520
Posts: 102
10/16/2016
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That's quite a cool analysis. There are a couple of points that I noticed were wrong, though.
[spoiler]
Where you've said that the Devils are enemies of the Fingerkling, the Order Serpentine medals have them making a deal with each other, in that the Devils teach the Fingerkings how to make Prisoners Honey, and in exchange, get one-fifth of all they gain thereby.
The other one is that, when selling your soul at Hallowmas, they mention A) that since Hell is beneath the skin of the earth, it is safe from the Judgements, and B) (this one seems important enough to quote directly) "But I tell you this: we never rebelled against the Judgements. Not against them."
[/spoiler]
edited by Omega8520 on 10/16/2016
edited by Omega8520 on 10/16/2016
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Omega8520
A Correspondent of measure and restraint, not-withstanding a tendancy to rush into things.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Menacing%20Seeker
Northwards with Noman. At least they'll have company.
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Omega8520
Posts: 102
10/16/2016
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Concerning the Parabola Destinies
[spoiler]
On siding with the Bishop of Southwark, it says that he bargained for the Fingerkings help. I have no idea what he might have as a bargining chip, but there is a chance that is rather potent.
On siding with the devils, however, The Huntsman says that taking that path helps the Fingerkings "And the least of it is that it advances my plans here. I have leapt much closer to their consummation, like a piece in draughts making two captures. I'll be home before Christmas."
I don't know whether or not these might be indicative of the way things currently are, as the destiny text is quite vauge on the specifics.
I will say, though, that the Order Serpentine medals are written in the manner of a childrens book, where the main character ("a little snake, no bigger than your finger, who lived behind the mirror") calls the "grumpiest bee" one of their only friends. On the other hand, it does refer to those brought over by the Honey also as its friends, and all on the London side of the mirror as friends-to-be, so that may just be an artifact of the form the story is in.
[/spoiler]
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Omega8520
A Correspondent of measure and restraint, not-withstanding a tendancy to rush into things.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Menacing%20Seeker
Northwards with Noman. At least they'll have company.
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Kyron The Wise
Posts: 45
10/14/2016
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Zarrg wrote:
I have some more questions:
1. What happens if one tries to seek the name of a master who is not Mr Eaten? what makes it so special?
As has been mentioned, its not so much the seeking of a Master's name that is special, but that you seek the name of Mr Eaten. Once he went by another name, and that has been blotted out from history.
2. How big is the Underzee? the size of a large lake or an ocean? Well, the thing is, you can't exactly measure the Unterzee. Due to pecularities of the Neath, it is not a static space, and will change in size and content in events called Alterations.
3. If all things are alive in Polythreme what separates the claymen from the rest of the objects there? Are they more refined? Are they the only things able to survive outside Polythreme? Nothing separates them, and other things can be taken to other places and remain alive. For instance, the map you use to find Polythreme, the Screaming Map, is itself alive. However, would you want a cup that is contantly moaning as you put boiling tea in it? Really, the main reason you don't see anything other than Claymen is that most normally nonliving objects suffer pain when used for their normal purpose.
4. How is Mr Eaten as long as you do not mention its name? Can you interact with it outside the SMEN? From a quote I read of Egypt which suggests that it is better at human-ish talk than the other masters and that it may have a connection to the sisterhood and bag a legend (I have gotten far enough along Bag a legend to have a vague knowledge of the relationship between the sisterhood and the masters). No, the entity we refer to as Mr Eaten cannot be interacted with beyond the events involved in SMEN. The Masters prefer things to remain this way.
5. Will all clothing worn have to be designed by Kasimir Malevich after the liberation of the night (assuming that he has been born by that point). Depends on if we are still wearing clothes or not in a lightless world. Design would be somewhat irrelevant, at least to aesthetics.
6. Is hell in the Neath, under it, or on a different plane like Parabola? It's to the West of London. Same plane, and one can take a train from a station in Ladybones, though gamewise we cannot do this yet.
7. The traitor empress is Queen Victoria, right? She lost her name when she sold London in return for the health of her Consort, but yes, she was known as such at one time.
8. To my understanding this is a history of the future of the world is this:
-The British empire moves north beyond the avid horizon to the outer wilderness to colonize were no man has colonized before.
-Paris falls and lands on London
-Some time in the future the seventh city lands on Paris completing the masters plan.
Is this accurate?
Mmmmm, somewhat. If the Master's wishes come to fruition, the second will be true. By Sunless Skies, the first will be true. However, the third is not the Master's wish. Really, that sounds their death knell should they be forced to take a Seventh.
9. Is the outer wilderness synonymous with outer space? Or is is something different? You could call it that. However, it will not operate on the natural laws we are familar with.
10. Does Satan exist, if not is there a governing body of hell? At a time, after they left Parabola, the devils were ruled by an aristocracy. However, recently, they overthrew this aristocracy, imprisoning many, and forcing the rest to flee to Mt Palmerston.
11. (More open) what will happen to seekers in the sunless sky era? Without being able to go into much of the details, to seek is to end oneself. Given the background of Seeking, and what events I know of thus far (I am not quite done with SMEN), there will be no Seeking in Sunless Skies.
Sorry for my lust for improperly obtained knowledge.
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Kyron The Wise, Correspondent, and thus always a wee bit insane. Also now on the Seeking Road, I do not desire Mr. Eaten's name, but pursue the identity of another name. (Main Account):
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Kyron~The~Wise
Secondary, previously dreaming of Parabola, now dreaming of the Name, account:
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Librari
You can argue with me, and you might even defeat my points. But somewhere along the way I may use philosophy to make you question existence. Who's the real winner?
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Kyron The Wise
Posts: 45
10/15/2016
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Now, my understanding of soul lore is somewhat lacking. If you've seen my thread, you can probably guess that my interests lie to the East.
However, here is what I do know on souls, as pertains to devils.
First, it is unlikely that devils are friends to Judgements. This can be attributed to how devils are sourced originally from Parabola. It is known that Judgements despise anything from there, and are in somewhat of a war-state with said dimension. This also makes it unlikely that the Devils are aiding in the Judgement life cycle.
Further, a fun fact. The 'God' that is being worhshipped by the Church in this universe is actually a front for Judgements. Given this, we can assume that the Judgements are especially not keen on devils. I seem to recall something about Judgements feeding on souls, but cannot recall where, or if it is in fact true. On point, the devils are techinically biblical devils, but not our biblical devils. They are not firey pitchfork wielding agents of evil. In Mrs. Plenties Carnival, on Beneath the Neath, they playact being such, and can barely keep from laughing. I would describe what they really are, but spoiler tags don't work too well for me, and OP did desire for no revelation of too many secrets.
Devils are not into the soul thing simply for the sport of it. The fact that there are souls they will reject shows that there is some specificity to what they need. If you have stained your soul, like I have, or have been touched by the Uttershroom, they will be disgusted by your soul. Again, not sure, but devils may feed on souls. Regardless, given that they are seeking specific kinds of souls, or at the minimum not seeking certain ones, it is likely there is some use.
Yes, the Devil/Deviless are in it for Abstraction, taking your soul, but I recall the case of the Absconding Devil had one who attempt to, well, abscond with a woman, rather than take her soul.
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Kyron The Wise, Correspondent, and thus always a wee bit insane. Also now on the Seeking Road, I do not desire Mr. Eaten's name, but pursue the identity of another name. (Main Account):
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Kyron~The~Wise
Secondary, previously dreaming of Parabola, now dreaming of the Name, account:
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Librari
You can argue with me, and you might even defeat my points. But somewhere along the way I may use philosophy to make you question existence. Who's the real winner?
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Omega8520
Posts: 102
10/13/2016
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I will try not to spoil answers to the best of my ability, but a spoiler is by nature learning of something outside of when you are supposed to, so it will be slightly inevitable. I will place them in a spoiler, so read at your own discretion.
[spoiler]
1. All true names of Masters are in the Correspondence, but the name of Mr Eaten is illegal, and so requires somewhat more effort.
2. The Underzee is a lot more ocean sized (see Sunless Sea for more info on that)
3. All things are alive in Polythreme, but Clay Men are made differently, and also have hands. Hands are useful.
4. Mr Eaten is all of the not good. All of it. He was, once, but now? Just don't.
5. I have no idea who that is. Maybe?
[/spoiler]
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Omega8520
A Correspondent of measure and restraint, not-withstanding a tendancy to rush into things.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Menacing%20Seeker
Northwards with Noman. At least they'll have company.
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Zarrg
Posts: 31
10/14/2016
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I have some more questions:
6. Is hell in the Neath, under it, or on a different plane like Parabola?
7. The traitor empress is Queen Victoria, right?
8. To my understanding this is a history of the future of the world is this:
-The British empire moves north beyond the avid horizon to the outer wilderness to colonize were no man has colonized before.
-Paris falls and lands on London
-Some time in the future the seventh city lands on Paris completing the masters plan.
Is this accurate?
9. Is the outer wilderness synonymous with outer space? Or is is something different?
10. Does Satan exist, if not is there a governing body of hell?
11. (More open) what will happen to seekers in the sunless sky era?
Sorry for my lust for improperly obtained knowledge.
edited by Zarrg on 10/14/2016
edited by Zarrg on 10/14/2016
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Vavakx Nonexus
Posts: 892
10/14/2016
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10) The Brimstone Convention once used to rule Hell, filled with Princes and kings. It was, of course, overturned in the Season of Revolutions (not the ES season, that's different) and sealed away on small islands strewn throughout the Zee. The new Hell is highly bureaucratic, and I would not be surprised to find out they have elected rulers (alas, there isn't any info on the new rule as far as I know).
Those searching for a most exalted, wish-granting game, involved in the art of bombing before midday or zailors travelling near the hyperborean gate may learn about all of this in more detail (and in one case, even encounter a prince of hell in person).
edited by Vavakx Nonexus on 10/14/2016
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Amets Estibariz, the Moulting Eidolon: Cradled by a sun all their own.
Blabbing, the Hobo Everyone Knows: The One Who Pulls The Strings. A Clarity In The Darkness.
Charlotte and the Caretaker: A family?
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Cthonius
Posts: 362
10/14/2016
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6: Hell is probably...both. You can take a train there, but it's also not quite on the same plane. Not too dissimilar from the East, I imagine. Iirc Hell is also closer to Parabola, however that works.
11: Will there even still be Seekers? Outside of the Neath, that is. Mr Eaten is in the Neath, haunts the Neath and the Zee, but the High Wilderness is a different beast. As Suinicide said, there may be a different dead Master, or something gone which refuses to stay that way. Worth mentioning is Alexis Kennedy, of whom Seeking was a pet project of, is no longer a writer for FBG, so it's possible we won't be seeing anything like Seeking in Sunless Skies. The other writers will have their own horrors crafted.
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Cthonius, gone North. Gone.
Oneiropompus, a Scarlet Saint, eager to help make your dreams realities. Accepting all social requests for now.
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Zarrg
Posts: 31
10/14/2016
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I am now imagining SMEN ending with the seeker being sucked through the gate into the high wilderness, then the end credits theme to Red Dwarf playing as their surprised copse floats though space.
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Gul al-Ahlaam
Posts: 225
10/16/2016
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In response to the above:
[spoiler]The text for siding with the Devils does seem to clinch the idea that they are friends or allies with the Fingerkings. I think your idea about the Bishop having a powerful bargaining chip is probably as close to accurate as we can get with the sources being as unreliable as they are.[/spoiler]
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The Uncanny Hierophant.
The Jewel-Eyed Prince.
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Vavakx Nonexus
Posts: 892
10/16/2016
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Gul al-Ahlaam wrote:
In response to the above:
[spoiler]The text for siding with the Devils does seem to clinch the idea that they are friends or allies with the Fingerkings. I think your idea about the Bishop having a powerful bargaining chip is probably as close to accurate as we can get with the sources being as unreliable as they are.[/spoiler]
You are making me wish to replay all of Diocesan Intrigue to side with the Devils to then free the guy in the destiny. Thanks for the guilt of picking masters.
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Amets Estibariz, the Moulting Eidolon: Cradled by a sun all their own.
Blabbing, the Hobo Everyone Knows: The One Who Pulls The Strings. A Clarity In The Darkness.
Charlotte and the Caretaker: A family?
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
10/16/2016
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Perhaps they rebelled with them, against something that was above even judgements on the great chain.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Gul al-Ahlaam
Posts: 225
10/16/2016
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Those are some interesting points, Omega! The Soul-Sale at Hallowmas is one of the few things I've never done, so that's SUPER useful and and interesting info! Thanks so much!! ^_^ I'll need to spend some time thinking about that!
[spoiler] The arrangement with the Fingerkings is interesting, since the Instrument destiny shows the Fingerkings siding with the Bishop of Southwark to lead an army against Hell. Maybe the Fingerkings realized that now that the Devils told them how to make prisoner's honey, there's no reason why they would need to keep paying them "one fifth of all they gain thereby," like a kind of outlived-your-usefulness thing? Or maybe the Destiny is just wrong, and they'll remain friends. It's only hypothetical, after all. [/spoiler]
edited by Gul al-Ahlaam on 10/16/2016
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The Uncanny Hierophant.
The Jewel-Eyed Prince.
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