Brito
Posts: 36
10/11/2016
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Though it constantly warns us of it's imminent fall, I've never had the experience of losing a single point of Notability, no matter how high I got it, this is of course because even if I have to strain myself to get to the tippy heights of 15, making waves 15 is quite easy to get in a week, being no more than a salon with anyone, even Silas can get your making waves from 0 to 15, the only case I see in wich falling out of notability actually becomes a threat is long zee travels, or flute street. Now, if Notability were to be maintained by it's doubled making waves, then we would have to maintain making waves 30 to not lose the maximum notability, wich would be a serious grind and make it a very unstable position to keep for a long time, as I guess it is supposed to be.
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
10/11/2016
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Brito wrote:
But I want to suffer!
At the expense of other players? Can't you just blindfold yourself everytime you log on instead? Is it really fair to suddenly lock off the higher professions to players who can't log in twice a day because, say, they have other commitments?
What exactly is so worthwhile about forcing players to grind against the clock even more? Is there value in making people think that the game is needy and a chore? Is spending twice the actions side converting your items really that much of an improvement to making Notability feels like fame?
edited by Estelle Knoht on 10/11/2016
--
Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Passionario
Posts: 777
10/13/2016
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Brito wrote:
I'm tired of people half living down here.
If you are tired, I suggest a break or a vacation, preferably in a place with little to no Internet access. That will provide you with a much-needed respite, as well as make your Notability maintenance sufficiently challenging. 
(Or you may fly, you mayfly. Notability is heavier than a mountain, Obscurity is lighter than a feather.)
--
Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
Passion: Profile, Appearance
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MidnightVoyager
Posts: 858
10/11/2016
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Brito wrote:
Yes, we'd all like to maintain our fame, but that isn't much of an argument is it? Life is fleeting.
The only one who made a good point was Saevitia. I have lost high notability to the peckish cards and I don't mean to punish players who can't log in as much as I do, but it makes no sense that fame should be taken this lightly, and I do mean to say things in Fallen London should actually weight on us, I'm tired of people half living down here.
It's a game. People tend to play it to have fun and not be Weighed On. What you are saying doesn't really sound fun. The system annoys people as it is. Making it more annoying will just annoy people more and make fewer people want to bother.
Actual life weighs on me. I'm not interested in a game that also weighs on me.
--
Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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Hammond
Posts: 41
10/23/2016
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Mint Humbugs wrote:
Shh, dear. Don't complain.
Mint Humbugs words are far wiser than mine, but I will share anyway.
A story:
I remember the... dark... early days of Notability. I was barely able to achieve Midnighter through the old system. I was NOT a middling POSI at the time. My BDR was strong. I was sure in my readiness: Bifurcated Owl, Parabolan Suit and other tools on hand... but it wasn't enough. The early levels were a cake-walk, but then I saw my first "modest" Making Waves challenge... and failed. My Waves dropped and at THAT VERY MOMENT... Time the Healer came (How enthusiastic I was when TtH was implimented... how I would grow to regret that enthusiasm). My Waves had been entirely calmed, a Notability Point lost... this would be the theme of my dealings with Notability for the following two weeks.
From "Modest" to "Chancy" to "High Risk". Failure after failure after failure. One step forward followed by three steps back. I BURNED through my Orphanage just to make the last few MW challenges Chancy at best... Yes, I chose an Orphanage, and yes, this endeavor would make me regret it for a time. However, I would not have chosen any differently.
After many sleepless nights cursing TtH, waiting for its unwanted arrival similarly to how one would wait for the Ghost of Christmas Future... but the only way to lose is to stop.
Late nights and early mornings, prolific MW grinds, the colors Orange and Red and Failure as my constant companions, Time and its cruel healing looming over my every waking second. Eventually the RNGod relented. The RNGod flinched... the cards had stacked in my favor, literally. A final, desperate High Risk challenge... and I succeeded. A few rushed clicks later and I was a Midnighter... free of Notability. I told myself that I would never commit to such an endeavor again.
A few days later Failbetter changed the system. No longer a Sisyphean grind, Notability had become a much more manageable, but still somewhat an unruly beast.
Regardless of my ramblings, Failbetter said it best, "It just wasn't fun" (paraphrasing).
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Hammond
All invitations are welcome.
{Warning: Messages sent within the forum might not be answered in a timely manner. Please forgive me, it is a bad habit I am trying to break.}
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Saevitia
Posts: 58
10/11/2016
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As I claw my way back to 12 Notability, even with possibly maxed out BDR per slot, I will disagree a bit. Notability is a very niche mechanic, and it is fairly obnoxious without much BDR gear in hand when you're grinding for that special profession since you finally drew an Unsigned Message. Or you're spending all your actions converting items into MW because you need 41 to force the Amanuensis.
Keeping Notability shouldn't be difficult without compensatory reward for doing so. If it was graded based on MWs relative to rest of player base, sure, make it rough and make it worthwhile, but once you're famous/notorious, it's not so hard to stay that way. Just look at the B-list celebrities on tabloid covers every week.
--
Saevitia's profile and appearance! [Gone NORTH]
Now playing Esméralda, Saevitia's former helmswoman and moralistic Campaigner; she looks like this.
I'm usually up for RP. Social actions are generally accepted; those with in-character RP invitations are most likely to be reciprocated.
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Parelle
Posts: 1084
10/11/2016
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Trust me, the first time you lose a point at Notability 14, you'll remember it. Really, it's the one thing which consistently keeps me in London instead of hiking off across the Zee more often.
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Parelle, Lady Joseph Marlen. The Singular Librarian. A Midnighter, a Player of the Marvelous.
pages from a dusty bookshop: a badly updated FL changelog | Useful Guidance and Explanations
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phryne
Posts: 1351
10/11/2016
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I think it's just about hard enough. In fact, it bugs me so much I consider kicking out that Amanuensis every time I see him. But it was such a pain to get up in the first place, and maybe I'll need it for something one day...
--
Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
10/11/2016
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Since its a side mechanic and not something you need to use, it actually is better to be too easy rather than too hard, since you want people to use it, and making it punishingly difficult turns people off. (Especially because, unlike SMEN, there wouldn't really be much behind the difficulty)
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 787
10/12/2016
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MidnightVoyager wrote:
Actual life weighs on me. I'm not interested in a game that also weighs on me.
Sir Goomy wrote:
I prefer my sources of escapism to be less frustrating than real life.
Wise words, delicious friends, wise words!
--
Rupho Schartenhauer has killed a Master, well: most of it.
Cortez the Killer has killed a Master, definitely.
Deepdelver has become the progenitor of London's brightest star. It's... complicated.
Dr. Kvirkvelia, gone NORTH on 23/12/1894.
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Sir Goomy
Posts: 111
10/11/2016
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Brito wrote:
Yes, we'd all like to maintain our fame, but that isn't much of an argument is it? Life is fleeting.
The only one who made a good point was Saevitia. I have lost high notability to the peckish cards and I don't mean to punish players who can't log in as much as I do, but it makes no sense that fame should be taken this lightly, and I do mean to say things in Fallen London should actually weight on us, I'm tired of people half living down here.
Hah, but thing is, it's not really taken lightly at all. Think about it - at the end of each week, the "masses" begin to forget/care who "we" are. As such, to keep them loving us, we gotta sell out our bums weekly (I dare even say, daily) so we don't fade into obscurity (i.e have those nice points of Notability - stay nice).
That's pretty rough, no?
If I am to make an example based in reality - it's like if that goose Angelina Jollie had to do weekly things of great note just so she could stay a "star" and keep on being famous. It just doesn't work like that. And on that note, if anything, Notability should be made somewhat harder to lose! 
Now regarding your final point - that things should have more weight on us; well, me personally, I say no thanks. Even if it makes things more immersive and so, I prefer my sources of escapism to be less frustrating than real life. :P
--
Social actions, invites, roleplaying and general merrymaking is more than welcomed!
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sir~Goo
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Lisbella Peridot
Posts: 138
10/12/2016
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Brito wrote:
Yes, we'd all like to maintain our fame, but that isn't much of an argument is it? Life is fleeting.
The only one who made a good point was Saevitia. I have lost high notability to the peckish cards and I don't mean to punish players who can't log in as much as I do, but it makes no sense that fame should be taken this lightly, and I do mean to say things in Fallen London should actually weight on us, I'm tired of people half living down here.
It is because life is fleeting that I don't want my game to be a constant drain on my time! For what? Your fleeting feeling of "fame"?
Even at my best I can log in once a day. With your suggestion of doubling maintenance cost you can't even grind your way up slowly, and the only way around that is to.... spend Fate. Are you paying for us?
edited by Lisbella Peridot on 10/12/2016
--
Anatasia Swansong - fencing prodigy, extraordinary beauty, and very stubborn
Welcoming friends of all sorts! All independent now.
Kelly Siniature - grinning, deranged, elegant child of indistinct gender
Kelly is taking a long break on isolation.
I also play Town of Salem and a few other games - still Lisbella Peridot!
I finally regained stable internet access, so I should be around more often...
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Sir Goomy
Posts: 111
10/11/2016
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I appreciate your desire to experience suffering and hardship, Brito.
Bu-ut as the bolshenstvo(majority) have pointed out - it is Indeed fine as it is.
--
Social actions, invites, roleplaying and general merrymaking is more than welcomed!
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sir~Goo
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Scienceandponies
Posts: 247
10/11/2016
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NO. After clawing my up to Notability 15, I would very much like to focus my grinding efforts elsewhere (Cider, piles of goats, SotC 20 etc.) instead of dedicating each and every action to not falling backwards.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
10/11/2016
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It use to decrease at one level per week, regardless of MW. Players didn't really bother with it then. (I hear)
edited by suinicide on 10/11/2016
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
10/11/2016
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Hey! The bazaar never sold it's grandkid. Just a worker, that it forced to work for it, who may or may not have somewhat betrayed it.
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Vexpont
Posts: 137
10/11/2016
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Brito wrote:
Yes, we'd all like to maintain our fame, but that isn't much of an argument is it? Life is fleeting.
The only one who made a good point was Saevitia. I have lost high notability to the peckish cards and I don't mean to punish players who can't log in as much as I do, but it makes no sense that fame should be taken this lightly, and I do mean to say things in Fallen London should actually weight on us, I'm tired of people half living down here.
My first thought was that anything that makes it harder for early or mid-level players (disclosure: I'm the latter) to obtain Hastily-Scrawled Warning Notes will contribute to Shadowy's sad tendency to progress more slowly than any other trait. Increasing the difficulty of Notability-maintenance will surely do this.
The second was more selfish: in the Bartle Taxonomy of Player Types, which disappointingly isn't printed in Blackfinger Street on spider-vellum, I'd skew firmly to the Explorer quadrant, like probably almost everyone else here. But FL is so strongly biased to being an Explorer game that I sometimes forget that we'll all have secondary preferences. I suppose my secondary preference is for occasional RP and/or friendly games of murder, should the latter ever become available.
So it's great for me if pretty much every pick-uppable object or trait in a game helps to progress or understand something, rather than being a rare trophy (OK, occasionally pull my leg with something with no known uses. Occasionally, please). Other people are different: they are Achievement-oriented, and gaining pure social prowess can be a chosen achievement.
But it's just not my bag. I'm hugely disinclined to drive Notability higher than I have to in order to progress, and if maintaining it became more of an action sink, I'd get nothing out of it. But if trying to solve things was made a great deal more intricate and puzzle-driven, I'd be happy as Larry...and other people would be seriously annoyed.
I quite like the fact that Notability is an ambiguous quality. The more Notable you are, the less usefully anonymous you become, from a personal perspective, and the more excited certain Masters get about the prospect of your doings becoming story-worthy; they even offer you treats and favours. To be such a pet is probably not 100% a good thing. So perhaps it's possible for Notability to make someone suffer - RP-wise - in ways subtler than a simple action sink.
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Dangerous to my enemies; loyal to my friends. Not too handy at telling the difference.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Vexpont
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Saevitia
Posts: 58
10/12/2016
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A brief expansion on my position:
I played World of Warcraft in the early days. I did pvp then, back when only a certain percentage of people could make the highest ranks and the rewards were the best (or almost) items in the game. If Notability ever approaches anything like that, I will buy copies of Slowcake's solely to burn them en masse.
Relatedly, I've spent the last two weeks on my main JUST sidegrading items for MWs after emptying my deck of MW-gaining cards. I do this because I Seek, but would not wish it on my enemies.
--
Saevitia's profile and appearance! [Gone NORTH]
Now playing Esméralda, Saevitia's former helmswoman and moralistic Campaigner; she looks like this.
I'm usually up for RP. Social actions are generally accepted; those with in-character RP invitations are most likely to be reciprocated.
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dov
Posts: 2580
10/13/2016
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Passionario wrote:
(Or you may fly, you mayfly. Notability is heavier than a mountain, Obscurity is lighter than a feather.)
Thank you for this
--
 Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
(Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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Lisbella Peridot
Posts: 138
10/24/2016
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I don't even *have* notability now and I am relieved that Notability isn't made more difficult. It could be an ugly scene with how this Hallowmas is.
--
Anatasia Swansong - fencing prodigy, extraordinary beauty, and very stubborn
Welcoming friends of all sorts! All independent now.
Kelly Siniature - grinning, deranged, elegant child of indistinct gender
Kelly is taking a long break on isolation.
I also play Town of Salem and a few other games - still Lisbella Peridot!
I finally regained stable internet access, so I should be around more often...
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Harlocke
Posts: 506
10/23/2016
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Notability is more of a "are you still playing the game?" check on a player than a tedious weekly struggle not to slip back. Which is fine as is. I have enough grinds as is, without adding a new one that just evaporates and deletes all my hard work.
Considering that notability vanishes, unlike every other stat you want to advance, it's already suitably challenging. Harder isn't better. The idea of notability vanishing quicker is about as appealing as dangerous decreasing if you don't exercise enough, or your clothing getting deleted if you don't pay weekly laundry bills.
--
I welcome social actions, and can visit your salon as an author.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Harlocke
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genesis
Posts: 924
10/11/2016
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Brito wrote:
the only case I see in wich falling out of notability actually becomes a threat is long zee travels, or flute street
This is indeed one of the major reasons. It allows designers to create Zee content that is ostensibly very efficient but then you have to consider how that affects your notability (and missing out on opportunity cards)
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/mikey_thinkin
Keeping track of incomplete content and loose ends in Fallen London
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absimiliard
Posts: 759
10/11/2016
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I keep trying to find uses for Notability, but so far I just can't figure out how to make a good use Favorable Circumstances and I can't find anything else worth spending notability on.
As for keeping it... I think it ought to be easy to keep so long as you play. Since the current mechanic allows that and punishes leaving the game for month's on end ... I'm good with it. (as that's pretty much what I want)
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"Because, Parabola!" -- the Curious Captain
Eating nightmares from friends -- and I'm easy to befriend.
Absimiliard: the Black Rose of Wolfstack Docks
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Saklad
Posts: 528
10/11/2016
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I actually like the metaphorical strength of Notability and Making Waves. Fame is fleeting and hard-won, but maintaining it can sometimes feel like a chore. It's a very effective mechanic.
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Saklad5, a man of many talents
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
10/11/2016
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Brito wrote:
Yes, we'd all like to maintain our fame, but that isn't much of an argument is it? Life is fleeting.
The only one who made a good point was Saevitia. I have lost high notability to the peckish cards and I don't mean to punish players who can't log in as much as I do, but it makes no sense that fame should be taken this lightly, and I do mean to say things in Fallen London should actually weight on us, I'm tired of people half living down here.
Notability isn't as much fame as you think. it's a book large enough to hold around 400 pages minimum, and your character is not that important. You don't even get an actual paragraph until notability 8, and don't get a second till 11. Even at 15, you only have a half-page. (with a color plate)
That said, there's really only been two options seen so far. One is way too hard- fame isn't that fleeting. The rewards don't match with the cost, either. the other is, in your opinion, too easy.
Even if you took all the players with notability 11, they could plausibly actually be in the book at a half-page each and with room for more.
{nevermind that maintaining fame is easier than acquiring it, and notability doesn't seem to actually represent fame to humans. it's run by [spoiler 1] and all the mechanical benefits seem to come from [spoiler 2], with the exception of a handful of characters who seem to be affliated with [spoiler 2]. I mean, the surprise packages, the favorable circumstances, the knife and candle. almost all of these are from [spoiler 2], or affliated with it in some way.}
edited by Grenem on 10/12/2016
--
Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
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MidnightVoyager
Posts: 858
10/11/2016
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I've been keeping up my notability just for the next level of professions when it eventually comes, that's how annoying it was to build up.
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Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
10/11/2016
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I'm of the opinion that notability isn't too easy, that there's no way it's too easy, and that this is the kind of thinking that led to last year's noman incident.
If you want it to be hard, ask for more levels, or just try to constantly maintain the MW to reach the non-existent notability 16.
--
Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
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Ian Hart
Posts: 437
10/11/2016
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I keep losing Notability ever since I started up my Alt. If it's too easy for you, try running multiple characters.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Antifinity
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
10/11/2016
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Also try taking random options on the Peckish cards. I've lost a couple points of Notability there, even after checking the wiki in some cases when it wasn't fully accurate.
--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Shadowcthuhlu
Posts: 1557
10/24/2016
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I wouldn't mind it being easier.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Dirae%20Erinyes. Closed to calling cards, but open for all other social action. I also love to roleplay.
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Lady Sapho Byron
Posts: 770
10/24/2016
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Given this Hallowmas, I am now even happier that Notability is not so difficult to maintain!
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Lady%20Sapho%20L%20Byron
Fighting the Menace of Corsetry Since 1892.
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
10/12/2016
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Hey, not wanting my notability to go down was one of the few things that kept me still, if halfheartedly, playing the game when I was mad at it for a few weeks :P And that's pretty much what I assumed the notability mechanics were for. To keep people from leaving their game idle for weeks on end.
It serves that purpose well enough. I don't think it needs to be made more punishing. As they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it
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Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2518
10/23/2016
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Harlocke wrote:
Notability is more of a "are you still playing the game?" check on a player than a tedious weekly struggle not to slip back. Which is fine as is. I have enough grinds as is, without adding a new one that just evaporates and deletes all my hard work.
Considering that notability vanishes, unlike every other stat you want to advance, it's already suitably challenging. Harder isn't better. The idea of notability vanishing quicker is about as appealing as dangerous decreasing if you don't exercise enough, or your clothing getting deleted if you don't pay weekly laundry bills.
I agree with that. Realism can be fun in a text-based story game like this one, but *too* much realism takes the fun out of things.
--
Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355
Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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aegisaglow
Posts: 202
10/23/2016
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Grenem wrote:
Notability isn't as much fame as you think. it's a book large enough to hold around 400 pages minimum, and your character is not that important. You don't even get an actual paragraph until notability 8, and don't get a second till 11. Even at 15, you only have a half-page. (with a color plate)
On top of this, I'm pretty sure Slowcake's Exceptionals is actually multiple volumes of that size (the text on using the item itself alludes to "purchasing a spare copy of the relevant volume").
I think the current challenge level of notability is fine. If anything I think there's far more room to adjust it in the opposite direction, since the weekly loss of MW gets exponentially worse the higher your MW is.
Tangentially related, I think change points should be explained in-game somewhere, maybe in the FAQ--I had no idea how the hell successes or failures on things like investigating worked for a long time, and it's such a fundamental mechanic of the game. Sure, some level of opacity is fine but the fact that change points are referenced specifically in, for instance, getting inside information for a heist means there should be an explanation somewhere.
--
Mx. Aglow. Glazier, hedonist, devil-teaser, Paramount Presence. Pursuing their Heart's Desire.
Ms. Lilian Leith. A lady of proper standing, which seems like an increasingly ludicrous thing to give a rat's ___ about. Known (to some) for her Light Fingers.
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