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October Exceptional Story: Our Lady of Pyres

James StAnthony Administrator Posts: 28 9/29/2016	Delicious friends, the Exceptional Story for October is here! Meet the Sear Eyed Visionary and the Brazen Iconoclast in Our Lady of Pyres! Journey to a wrecked ship where two faiths are at war. Conspire against the New Sequence and the Conflagrati. Arbitrate in disputes. Hear confessions. Root out false converts. Deliver the Severe Bluejacket's bequeathment to his former mistress. Our Lady of Pyres is the second story in the Season of Wrecks, and was written by James Chew. The Season of Wrecks will be three linked stories that send you to deal with three very different shipwrecks at the behest of a dying Severe Bluejacket. All players will be able to visit the Bluejacket and his household. Exceptional Friends may, over the next three months, help him settle his final regrets. Each month's story stands alone, but playing all three will unlock the season's bonus content. Editing and QA: Olivia Wood, Cash DeCuir, and Chris Gardiner. Art by Paul Arendt. EXCEPTIONAL FRIENDSHIP In addition to a new, substantial, stand-alone story every month, Exceptional Friends enjoy: Access to the House of Chimes: an exclusive private member's club on the Stolen River, packed with content An expanded opportunity deck: of ten cards instead of six! A second candle: Twice the actions! 40 at once! Finishing all three stories in the Season of Wrecks will make you eligible for an additional opportunity, to follow. If you want to keep an Exceptional Story beyond the month it’s for, you must complete the related storylet in the House of Chimes. This will save it for you to return to another time.
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babelfishwars Administrator Posts: 1152 9/29/2016	radicalace wrote: I'm enjoying myself- although I spotted a typo at the point where you scheme with the Abiding Wife - "You've conspired with the Abiding Wife to sew dissent in the upcoming ritual." as well as at : The Evening RItual is here edited by radicalace on 9/29/2016 The person responsible has been keelhauled. -- Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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Diptych Administrator Posts: 3493 10/3/2016	Dubinee, I do believe you're being deliberately rude and provocative, in clear violation of forum rules. I'm awarding you a one-week suspension, on expectation of better behaviour in the future. -- Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron. Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Diptych Administrator Posts: 3493 10/6/2016	I wasn't entiiirely happy with not having any option to prevent bloodshed... but I can accept it as part of the story. Here's two groups of fanatics, absolutely determined to kill each other off - that's going to happen with or without you. I do think the middle path does minimise the damage - weakening their resolve, scaring off all but the most fervent believers, giving more people a chance to get out before things get really serious. That element aside, the Conflagrati were an amazing group - thoroughly believable as a Victorian art-cult. -- Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron. Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Inchoatl Posts: 45 10/2/2016	Good discussion abounds, and all I have to offer is a parody: Some time ago, the Pyres was wrecked. Run aground on a desolate volcanic island. Salvation is out of reach. All they have is their fire and their divaricated faith. But zealots can persevere through anything. And it's quiet here with the evening sermons and the glass-like Unterzee. Peaceful, almost. But then YOU arrived. -- Oh you lament the state of my immortal soul, but I shall have a life, a life as has not been seen or forgotten by the Neath in an age!
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Eglantine-Fox Posts: 872 10/3/2016	Dubinee Finnat wrote: Guys, when someone throws a grenade, don't line up in front of it Edit: It's not about making 'immoral' choices, it's about questioning the value system that decides what is 'moral' and 'immoral' and who is a 'good guy' and who isn't. edited by Dubinee Finnat on 10/3/2016 Let's not be intellectually dishonest here, hm? If people are discussing their issues with something, and someone else bursts in with a parody of people having issues with that very same specific thing, that person really cannot claim it was a 'grenade' that others have chosen to be hit by. That person really cannot claim that it was just a general joke. Not without a certain amount of intellectual dishonesty. Person 1: You know, I think that sandwich shop down the road should probably stop putting prawns in its peanut-butter sandwiches without telling us. I just bought one, and it was a very nasty surprise when I ate it. Person 2: Yeah, all I wanted was a plain old peanut-butter sandwich. Person 3: We probably should have seen the bits of prawn sticking out, maybe, but not all of us did see those. Person 4: I say, I say, imagine a Campaign against Prawns, full of humourless haters of seafood, marching into sandwich shops and shouting at the staff. How dare that staff have seafood on the menu, right? Let's burn down all the fishing trawlers! ...What are you looking at me like that, for? It's your fault for choosing to be offended! -- Eglantine Fox, the charming and androgynous Correspondent, teetering between hobbies of seduction and self-destruction. Siobhan O'Malley, Irish patriot (or 'bl__dy Fenian' if you're impolite). Isidore Day, an up-and-coming London gentleman. All allegations of wrongdoing are categorically denied.
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MidnightVoyager Posts: 858 10/3/2016	Dubinee Finnat wrote: MidnightVoyager wrote: I started to continue reading this thread, then I just happened to glance ahead and saw "Nazi" a lot of times... you know what, nevermind. Very foolish of you, because we were talking about John Fowles and you might have found something intriguing. Oh, I read it, I just didn't find anything of value in the comparison of a story in a game online to a story about a massive historical human tragedy. Especially when the comparison continues and we're like one step from calling people in the FL story Nazis. And besides, this is going back to the mayoral election where everyone seems way too angry about the fun online game. -- Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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phryne Posts: 1347 10/3/2016	Well, this one wasn't for me. Which is fine, as I've loved 90% of Exceptional Stories so far, it was bound to happen sooner or later It was the third ES I played within a week, after Calendar Code and Where You & I Must Go, and after these two excellent ones, Our Lady of Pyres was a major disappointment. Sorry, but I just could not care for anyone in this silly story. All I wanted to do at any point of it was wring my hands in despair and shout at these madpeople to leave me the f___ alone! Religious wars, meh. From my (purely personal) pov, I would've loved an option to just walk away from it all in the middle of the story. Or at least an option at the end to harangue the Bluejacket for wasting my time like that. Silly old bugger... edited by phryne on 10/3/2016 -- Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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MidnightVoyager Posts: 858 10/11/2016	dov wrote: And there's no reason why the game wouldn't offer an option to wash our hands clean of the whole mess and just leave. Actually, there is an excellent reason for this. It's not really great game design. It's not like A Bard's Tale which was a parody and put the "walk away" moment right at the end of the game so the most you miss is a single boss fight replaced with a laugh. It's more like Far Cry 4 where you can end the game just by waiting instead of leaving when the villain has to leave for a minute. Yes, it's perfectly valid as an option, but now you've ended the game before you played any of it. Which is fine... when you can reload a save and go about the game properly. I know we love our moral high grounds here, but I cannot imagine for a moment people picking that option and NOT coming into the forum, angry that it just skipped the whole story, even if they did consider that the moral high ground. They would have just paid to play a story that they then skipped. Besides, people don't tend to play a game so that plots can resolve themselves. They play and expect to resolve plots. _Andy_M_ wrote: Has anyone echoed the results of giving the Iconoclast the bequeathment after you have brought her back to London? I did! http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/MidnightVoyager?fromEchoId=9739121 edited by MidnightVoyager on 10/11/2016 -- Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 10/3/2016	I think a lot of the criticisms centering on moral choice are misplaced here. Like, if the character were in total control of the situation and all the profitable options (or all the options period) were morally objectionable, then there would be a good basis for complaint. But the player is not in total control of the situation - the player actually has very little control of the situation. They instead have only a small degree of influence, given to them by the Bluejacket's commission, the wife's presence, and the ambitions of the two cult leaders. It's a story about being caught up in events beyond your control. In fact trying to do the good samaritan thing in this story, bringing the Iconoclast back to London where she'll receive treatment, probably gets you a better reward as it pleases the Bluejacket and a pleased Bluejacket will presumably be more generous. edited by Anne Auclair on 10/3/2016 -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 10/3/2016	Kukapetal wrote: Moral choices/being a good guy in this case means not killing people or actively doing things I know will bring about deaths. It's about seeing a bad situation and not having my only choices be "kill" "kill" or "double kill!" Again, I'm not saying I have to completely succeed. Maybe I just can't stop these people from tearing eachother apart and all I can do is try to save as many people as I can. Maybe not even that many. Maybe I still end up staring at the carnage and crying while the couple of people I managed to save huddle behind me... Well, it sounds like you did that. You tried to demoralize the cults and it backfired, but some survived. I'm just saying you don't have to interpret it so negatively. edited by Anne Auclair on 10/3/2016 -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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suinicide Posts: 2409 10/3/2016	I think it's not quite that. People want some form of happy ending in a story that may end up redefining their character. They want to feel like they would have chosen their ending, instead of being railroaded into it because the game says no you can't be happy. But I don't think that should apply to this story. The daily options got worse over time. From attend a ritual to convert followers to desecrate murals to help us leave/prepare. And everyday you could watch a fight nearly break out between the followers. Even not taking into account the wife's plans getting worse over time, I felt it was clear you weren't preventing anything. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence. RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 10/3/2016	C'mon now. I didn't say all that stuff. I'm just trying to explain why the mechanics didn't work for me. The writers can take it or leave it as they see fit, of course. And I've never complained about there being immoral choices available. It's great that players who want to play morally gray characters or villains get a chance to do their stuff too. The game gives them tons of opportunities. I just want those of us who play as good guys to be able to stay in character too. Like I said, I'm fine with there not being super happy endings even for the most moral of choices. Sometimes, life is just like that. And I'm fine with hard choices too. I just want said choices to be clear. And I've freely admitted that that last issue could be on me rather than the writers.
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Mr. Sails Posts: 37 10/1/2016	This story unfortunately didn't resonate too much with me. The main reason is perhaps mechanically related. I was quite confused as to what I was supposed to do once I reached the wreck, and what you did during the "day" didn't seem to impact the rituals too much anyways. You were free to choose sides as you wished. I spent more time being confused about how to snap up as much information as possible than actually chewing the cud. Secondly, the situation seemed somewhat forced to me. We're on a wreck, there's this nutty Narcissus who wants to burn up and be left alone, this other dude who thinks he's a Dawn Machine prophet and a bunch of followers, with on information on how they're sustaining their communities. The worldbuilding aspect was completely ignored in favour of character building, but somehow the characters didn't strike me as particularly interesting anyways. After last months powerstory that completely pivoted my character into an entirely different view of life and philosophy, this was a bit of a letdown. However, seems like there's lots of other peeps on here who enjoyed it, so I might just have esoteric tastes. edited by Cantankerous Captain on 10/1/2016 edited by Cantankerous Captain on 10/1/2016
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Estelle Knoht Posts: 1751 10/1/2016	I am still having trouble not reading animescence as Anime Science. I liked the story in general, although the mechanics are a little confusing if you want to sabotage both sides - at first you'd think that progressing to the evening ritual meant picking a side due to its requirement of 15 Ascendancy, but turns out these two are just identical storylets. Giving us the option to play bridge with the Ailing Wife or at least some interaction with her on the ship, even once, could cut down on the monotony of zailing. I'd love to lose to her or something as opposed to just repeating another zee-trip (which presumably next month's story will have, too). -- Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady. I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Professor Strix Posts: 616 10/3/2016	Kukapetal wrote: Right. Like I knew we were sabotaging both sides but it felt like we were sort of undermining the two leaders' authority to make their followers break ranks...instead of firing them up into an even worse frenzy. But again, I don't know if the writing was unclear or if I just didn't get it or made assumptions that had no real basis. All I know is that I was confused. Whether that's indicative of an actual problem with the writing or just limited to me and a few others I don't know. I thought that at first, when the sabotaging was still more or less benign (keep them from spying on each other, things like this). Then, it became more alarming, but, to be honest, my character didn't want any of the sides to win. While she could understand, she would not approve of the Iconoclast's death wish, much less that she was basically talking others to go with her. And the Visionary just talked about things she has heard whispered here and there, and that didn't sit well with her. I'm pretty sure she would try to, as Kukapetal said, expose the leaders and make as many people defect as she could manage. Despite all that, it's understandable that even the best intentions can end in bloodshed when fanatics are involved. I think that seeing a try at making peace end in a war is good for her character development, and actually helps her to get to the path I envisioned to her. That said, I understand Kukapetal's unhappiness with the fact that you are never in full control of your character's personality in Fallen London. It often gives us messages like: you are either willing to commit robberies and treasons, or you can't become great - to become great, you must sacrifice your morals. Being good doesn't pay. Being good makes you mediocre. Good people are too pure to be great academics or to unravel the mysteries of Fallen London. Etc., etc. I like the fact that FL don't make you be either good or evil - you can be grey, as most humans are. But I do find it irritating that, many instances in which the game gives you what seems to be a morally good choice (for instance, helping an elderly lady) and you think "hey, I guess I'll be good on this one, this person deserves it", the game often 'rewards' with you with a text that basically makes you a petty creature, want you or not. It's like they are saying "you can be everything in London, but don't dare to try to be a nice, honest and socially functioning human being, we don't like it here". It's not that I want to always be a girl scout, or to always have happy hippie-ish ends, but when you can't be good, choosing an evil option for profit looses all emotional weight it could have. You either quit the game or stop caring, choosing just whatever is most profitable. While making profit to buy things is a draw for many people who plays FL, it's not what hooked me in in the first place. I like my choices to be hard, and they cease to be hard when you don't care anymore and just want profit. Lastly, I don't think it's the writer's fault. I wouldn't have played as much content as I could until I reached the end of regular content if I didn't like the writing. I'm just saying that no one can deny that the game don't let you play with a lawful good character, unless you want to quit midgame and start a morally grey character. It might be a stylistic choice, it might be accidental, but it is something that happens. -- The Inescapable Professor, London's Most Academic Detective. Open to consultation from Mondays to Fridays, above the Silver Binding bookshop, Veilgarden. Half the payment in advance, half after closing the case. No refunds. "THIS SATURDAY, in MAHOGANY HALL, delight your eyes with the DARING FEATS of the DAPPER ESCAPIST. Gape at his CHARM and WIT and his CLEVER TRICKS OF ILLUSIONISM. No mirrors used." --------- Social actions welcomed. Will take menaces if not currently grinding that one stat. Send them and cross your fingers. http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Professor%20Strix My alt loiters suspiciously if you want to: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Derek%20Davis
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 10/3/2016	I knew you were talking about me, there was no need for me to dodge said "grenade." And since you were talking about me, i figured I should address it. I don't know why you're acting like this though. No one else has resorted to personal attacks when discussing this story. EDIT: I will also say that I never meant to imply that playing as a good guy is the "proper" way to play the game or that everyone who doesn't do so deserves to be "punished" by the game. However, it is the way I like to play the game and I think there should at least be the option to play that way. I don't think wanting an option that lets me avoid being responsible for scores of dead people is such an unreasonable thing to ask. edited by Kukapetal on 10/3/2016
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Professor Strix Posts: 616 10/3/2016	Dublinee Finat wrote: It's not about making 'immoral' choices, it's about questioning the value system that decides what is 'moral' and 'immoral' and who is a 'good guy' and who isn't. And about actually having choices. I mean, lets say that you are investigating a certain crime and you discovered the criminal. But, for reasons known only to you, you decide you don't want the criminal to get caught. Maybe you agree with his reasons, maybe you think the victim deserved it. It doesn't matter. In real life, a very simple and anctually the most common way to solve this problem is resigning from the case, even if it will cost a lot in terms of reputation. Doing what you believe in is not always easy, but it's your choice. Then the game offer you the option of either turning him in to the cops or framing a completely innocent person to get him out of the hook. Where did your choice of giving up go? I completely get that it's impossible to give players all possible choices in all possible situations, but the problem is not helped by the fact that, it doesn't matter what you choose, the character's attitude, according to the game text, is always the worst possible one. If you pick a "make your way through the crowd", your character will never simply walk briskly and deliver a few elbow hits to make it through, they will punch people and stomp them. If you pick a "ignore this guy" option, you don't simply ignore the person, you humilliate them with how cool your treatment is, and so on. So yes, if you follow the just the game text without creating any head-canons, your character is always an entitled jerk, and most times you just get to choose how big of an entitled jerk they are. If you don't want to play an entitled jerk, tough luck (or just 'cheat' and discard certain bits of writing as non-canon, which is a nice compromise I've seen most players doing). -- The Inescapable Professor, London's Most Academic Detective. Open to consultation from Mondays to Fridays, above the Silver Binding bookshop, Veilgarden. Half the payment in advance, half after closing the case. No refunds. "THIS SATURDAY, in MAHOGANY HALL, delight your eyes with the DARING FEATS of the DAPPER ESCAPIST. Gape at his CHARM and WIT and his CLEVER TRICKS OF ILLUSIONISM. No mirrors used." --------- Social actions welcomed. Will take menaces if not currently grinding that one stat. Send them and cross your fingers. http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Professor%20Strix My alt loiters suspiciously if you want to: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Derek%20Davis
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MidnightVoyager Posts: 858 10/2/2016	Kukapetal wrote: Because it isn't fair from a gameplay perspective. It's just pulling the rug out from under us and saying "Gotcha! your choice didn't matter and you ended up doing the exact opposite of what you meant to do! There was no way to save them and by trying, all you did was kill even more!" It's giving us a false choice and then leaving us sitting in the wreckage of our mistake soaked with the blood of the people we tried to save. Sure, maybe it's realistic, but....let me ask this. Suppose you were playing as someone who wanted to support the iconoclast. Everything you did in the story was aimed toward that goal...and then, in the end, you find out that the spies from the other side had infiltrated deep into her cult and were secretly working against you and everything you did you help the Iconoclast was somehow turned against you to help the other side. Your Iconoclast supporting playthrough actually propelled the other side to absolute victory and left you soaked in the blood of the Iconoclast and her followers. In fact, even more of them died than if you hadn't supported her at all. Sure, having spies pull the wool over your eyes and fool you into helping the other side might be realistic, but as a player....wouldn't you feel cheated by the game? Wouldn't you feel like your choices didn't matter and were invalidated by gameplay mechanics beyond your control? Mechanics that the game didn't even warn you about and instead revealed only after it was too late, leaving your entire playthrough of the story moot? Realistic or not, it's pretty unpleasant to be on the receiving end of such a mechanic. (again, this is assuming that the "middle of the road options" were legitimately presented as "benevolent" options. It is entirely possible that they were always intended to be the most malevolent choice and either the writing was unclear or I'm just dense :P ) It seemed clear to me that "fuck over both sides" was the intention. Intentional sabotage on both sides. I don't understand how you thought otherwise. But I wouldn't really call it malevolent. One side is literally going towards dying in a fire and the other side is pals with a brainwashing false deity. Break their little cults, and whoever's left can at least have a chance. -- Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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Inchoatl Posts: 45 10/3/2016	I'm among the number of people who thought the middle of the road options would be the most benign. I thought that by sabotaging both sides, I'd put them in a position where they'd be forced to listen to me if I talked them down from the whole theological throwdown they were brewing. That said, I ended up interpreting the end result as being influenced heavily by the Abiding Wife. I originally thought she was the steady voice of reason, and I took her ostensibly copacetic relationship with the Brazen Iconoclast at face value. I've come to believe that I was simply naive. If we take the Abiding Wife's name to indicate that her key characteristic is an extreme tolerance, then we have a character who has put up with a lot in her life, and that sort of thing often leads to resentment, even if its not entirely conscious. That's what I believe caused things to go the way they did. I had believed the Abiding Wife was acting in good faith, and for all I know she believed she was acting in the Iconoclasts interests as well. However, she may well have harboured resentment towards the Brazen Iconoclast which influenced her machinations, leading them to have more vicious effects while on the surface still appearing to be in the best interests of everyone. She started picking up steam, and by the end her machinations lost all veneer of respectability. In the end, my character simply found themselves in an awful situation due to misplaced faith, and they had to figure out what to do when the person they trusted ended up turning the situation pear shaped. -- Oh you lament the state of my immortal soul, but I shall have a life, a life as has not been seen or forgotten by the Neath in an age!
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MidnightVoyager Posts: 858 10/3/2016	I started to continue reading this thread, then I just happened to glance ahead and saw "Nazi" a lot of times... you know what, nevermind. -- Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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Catherine Raymond Posts: 2518 10/3/2016	Professor Strix wrote: <snipping heavily> *** I like the fact that FL don't make you be either good or evil - you can be grey, as most humans are. But I do find it irritating that, many instances in which the game gives you what seems to be a morally good choice (for instance, helping an elderly lady) and you think "hey, I guess I'll be good on this one, this person deserves it", the game often 'rewards' with you with a text that basically makes you a petty creature, want you or not. It's like they are saying "you can be everything in London, but don't dare to try to be a nice, honest and socially functioning human being, we don't like it here". It's not that I want to always be a girl scout, or to always have happy hippie-ish ends, but when you can't be good, choosing an evil option for profit looses all emotional weight it could have. You either quit the game or stop caring, choosing just whatever is most profitable. While making profit to buy things is a draw for many people who plays FL, it's not what hooked me in in the first place. I like my choices to be hard, and they cease to be hard when you don't care anymore and just want profit. Lastly, I don't think it's the writer's fault. I wouldn't have played as much content as I could until I reached the end of regular content if I didn't like the writing. I'm just saying that no one can deny that the game don't let you play with a lawful good character, unless you want to quit midgame and start a morally grey character. It might be a stylistic choice, it might be accidental, but it is something that happens. I think there's some truth to the charge that the kinds of moral choices that most of us make, by preference, in our daily lives (e.g., not to kill, steal, defraudpeople) makes for a rather constrained set of choices in Fallen London. No one can deny that one of the four basic stats -- Shadowy -- is based on how effective you are at fraud, casual violence and other forms of criminal conduct. On the other hand, options certainly exist in FL to do what most of us consider to be the "right thing." For example, you can choose to tell the Bluejacket the truth about his son in "Where You and I Must Go." You can pass on a little girl's letter to her beloved former governess in "The Frequently Deceased." And the choice a player makes in one of the earliest FL stories--that of the Contessa--is wrenching precisely because it's based upon what the player, functioning as we all do on limited information, thinks is right. There is violence, pettiness, nastiness in FL as there is in human existence. If there were not, many of us would not like the game so well because it would not feel real. In fact, we are having this conversation precisely because FL does feel real, and it is disturbing to realize that in some ways we tend, after a while, to take Fallen London's skewed moral choices for granted. If those choices alarm you, the player, you always have the option to quit playing the game, or to only play storylines where the actions permitted by the game are moral ones, according to your own morality or that of your game character. Or you can play the game with all of the immorality that is implicit and explicit in its stories, aware how those choices are not choices you would want to make if FL were real and you were living among all the mushrooms, tomb-colonists, and rats. Played on that level, FL throws what most of us would consider to be self-evident moral choices into sharp relief, which can be very enlightening. But there are always choices, even if the choices put on offer in a particular ES are not ones we like. -- Cathy Raymond http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355 Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 10/3/2016	MidnightVoyager wrote: Oh, I read it, I just didn't find anything of value in the comparison of a story in a game online to a story about a massive historical human tragedy. Especially when the comparison continues and we're like one step from calling people in the FL story Nazis. I'm sorry. It wasn't my intention to imply that the characters or players in the story were Nazis. I was just working with the comparison used, trying to explain why it wasn't an accurate comparison to what was happening in the game. Let me try again. Consider the following two scenarios: Scenario 1: A madman is holding you captive. Across from you are two other captives, Jack and Jill. The madman tells you he is going to shoot one and you must pick who. If you don't pick one, he will shot both. Do you a.) tell him to shoot Jack. b.) Tell him to shoot Jill c.) Refuse to choose and let him shoot both Scenario 2: You are walking down the street when you come across Jack and Jill. Do you a.) pull out your gun and shoot Jack b.) pull out your gun and shoot Jill c.) pull out your gun and shoot both Dubinee seemed to be implying the situation in the story was more like Scenario 1, and I was complaining the game didn't give me an option to break out of my shackles, bludgeon the madman to death with his own gun, and go have a threesome with Jack and Jill. While I believe the situation in the game was more like Scenario 2, and I'm complaining that the choices I'm given are all immoral in the context of the situation. Because in Scenario 2, there is nothing about the setup that's forcing me to shoot anybody. I could just as easily greet the two politely and invite them to tea, or walk away, or call them a-holes and give them the middle finger, or a zillion other things. By only giving me options to shoot one or both of them, the game makes assumptions about what kind of character I'm playing. This is unfair to those of us who aren't playing as characters who would go up and shoot random people on the street. Similarly, the game gives us situation where there is nothing, in-universe, holding you on the island or forcing you to take part in a cult war. Getting involved in the cult war wasn't your initial goal, neither cult is forcing you to get involved, you've got a ship that can get you out of there, etc. Technically, your work is done once you offer the bequeathment to the Iconoclast and she tells you she doesn't want it. You could sail straight home and tell the Bluejacket you tried but she said no and is there anyone else he'd like to give it to instead? Or you could choose to stay and take a genuinely peaceful stance and try to talk them out of it. Or you could choose to stay and take a neutral stance and just watch what happens. Or any number of options that should have theoretically been possible in the situation. Getting involved in the conflict is therefore something that the character must have chosen to do, in universe. Therefore, responsibility for the deaths caused by either picking a side and joining in the fight or pitting both of them against eachother and watching the fun DO fall upon your character's head, if not exclusively. Just as the options presented in Scenario 2 are unfair to those of us who aren't playing as someone who would shoot random people on the street when they didn't have to, the options presented in the game are unfair to those of us who aren't playing as characters who would choose to join in and exacerbate a conflict when they didn't have to. edited by Kukapetal on 10/3/2016
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 10/3/2016	I think I'll reset it too. Now that I know I can't make a moral choice, I'm just going to make a fun choice instead and side with the Visionary because he's cute. I want that hug :P
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 10/3/2016	Optimatum wrote: The wreck was mentioned as being near Mutton Island though, right? That's not very far out to zee, and in FL it's entirely possible for the player to get wounded to the brink of death at Mutton Island and recover just fine. The Bluejacket describes it as "[j]ust beyond Mutton Island." There are shipwrecks on the island itself and a continuous stream of wreckage washed ashore, likely from the wrecks that regularly occur off Mutton Island (good lord, how many zailors does that island kill?!). However, you don't see the lights of Mutton Island, so its not right offshore. The Pyres is also on a smell speck of land surrounded by the waters of the hungry Unterzee. So I think death is probably permanent on Pyres. Though it might be close enough to land that the people on the island are more resilient then they otherwise would be. The two cults on the Pyres are living pretty rough after all, have rather demanding lifestyles, and are beating each other up, yet seem in pretty good shape all things considered. edited by Anne Auclair on 10/3/2016 -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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dov Posts: 2580 10/11/2016	MidnightVoyager wrote: dov wrote: And there's no reason why the game wouldn't offer an option to wash our hands clean of the whole mess and just leave. Actually, there is an excellent reason for this. It's not really great game design. [...] Yes, it's perfectly valid as an option, but now you've ended the game before you played any of it. But that's just one way to go about it, and I agree that it wouldn't be a good design. I was not advocating an option to skip the whole story from the beginning. There's no reason not to go and experience the factions on the Pyres, get involved in their activities, etc. But at the very end, when it becomes clear that the factions plan to move against each other, the game gives you 3 specific choices: support one faction, support the other, or undermine them both. At that point in the story, it would have been nice to have an option which said: "You know what? I'm not getting involved. This little feud is not why I came here.". Then you can wait it out on your ship, hearing the clash of the factions, and the end can be the same. This is, of course, only one way to do it. Notice that I don't even mention a "happy ending". Just an option which acknowledges that the conflict between the factions is not the reason our character is there, and that we're not trapped there and can leave at any time. -- Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how. (Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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Hark DeGaul Posts: 208 10/3/2016	I will admit, having thought on this one that I do think the story has problems, but not moral ones. By the time the debate happens you have (ironically) already chosen your side and are incapable of setting it right. If (for example) you support the Iconoclast for the first two events, but then decide based on new information that you would rather support the Visionary's cause, or vice versa, then it doesn't matter. From a mechanics standpoint it feels like you're trapped by your choices from an unusually early stage. Some of the best stories (exceptional or otherwise) are ones where people have changed their mind about who they supported halfway through and gone in a different direction and here you just can't do that. Maybe that's the point, but it's really not my style. This is the only ES I've ever considered resetting and I'll be doing it for my alt as soon as I'm able. edited by Hark DeGaul on 10/3/2016 -- The Dawn-Eyed Optician: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Hark%20DeGaul That Vicar Who Ruined the Royal Wedding for Everyone (including himself): http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Hebediah%20Fix The Dreaded Relative: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Your%20Aunt
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Optimatum Posts: 3666 10/4/2016	Anne Auclair wrote: Optimatum wrote: The shipwrecks of course occur because the villagers of Mutton Island purposefully block all light from the windows facing out to zee, so that doesn't strike me as a good indicator. For all we know the Pyres could be fifty feet away, or it could be out somewhere more around the Shepherd Isles. The Shepherd Isles move around quite a bit and can be very far out to zee. Also, the Bluejacket makes no mention of them. My point being that we don't really have any landmarks or specific location knowledge, the Shepherd Isles being an example. -- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome. Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi! PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Catherine Raymond Posts: 2518 10/22/2016	I just finished the Our Lady of Pyres. There was some impressive descriptive writing in the middle of the story, but I agree now with the folk who complained that the mechanics made it difficult to meaningfully decide who to support. I think this story had some of the same problems you see in live-action role playing games where the GM have set up the plot in a way that they believes encourages a particular result not realizing that the players, with their limited knowledge of the game secrets, have no particular motivation to act in ways that would advance the plot as the GMs hoped. [spoiler] I chose to bring the Iconoclast back to London but to give the Bequeathment to the Abiding Wife. What a lose for me. Somehow, I think a bottle of airag was too poor a reward for spending that much time trying to thread a path between two rival sets of fanatics. On the other hand, I have reason to believe from the ending I saw that both the Iconoclast and the Sear-Eyed Visionary lived, and less damage that could be expected was done, which is what my character would have wanted. I doubt I would have achieved that result, though, if I hadn't read the comments on Our Lady of Pyres before I played it. [/spoiler] edited by cathyr19355 on 10/22/2016 -- Cathy Raymond http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355 Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 10/3/2016	Old School RPG magic mechanics say Lightning :P
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Professor Strix Posts: 616 10/3/2016	Actually, I won't be disatisfied. It's not about having a happy ending, it's about not killing/stealing/saying lies that will destroy people if you choose not to. If all stories in FL were like this conundrum you posted, I would be happy. A story that I like a lot because it does let you choose your moral look to it is the Comtessa story, and it doesn't have a happy ending. What I feel is that many stories in FL feel like the chief of the village only had the choices of killing the resistance or killing the nazis, never the choice of giving up fighting entirely and letting him be sacrificed for what he thinks is right (which actually happened in real life). -- The Inescapable Professor, London's Most Academic Detective. Open to consultation from Mondays to Fridays, above the Silver Binding bookshop, Veilgarden. Half the payment in advance, half after closing the case. No refunds. "THIS SATURDAY, in MAHOGANY HALL, delight your eyes with the DARING FEATS of the DAPPER ESCAPIST. Gape at his CHARM and WIT and his CLEVER TRICKS OF ILLUSIONISM. No mirrors used." --------- Social actions welcomed. Will take menaces if not currently grinding that one stat. Send them and cross your fingers. http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Professor%20Strix My alt loiters suspiciously if you want to: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Derek%20Davis
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ginnyjenny Posts: 13 10/3/2016	As a (relatively) new player, I feel like I'm missing out on a lot of the lore that's been going in to these past few ES. I've yet to encounter the Dawn Machine, or understand how these characters connect to the greater story of Fallen London. I've been reading through, trying to get a sense of what all this is about and how my character would respond, particularly with the little I was able to glean about the Dawn Machine...I'm a little worried I'm going to make a choice and later realize I should have made a different one, once I have all the facts. -- Ginny Jenny will accept all social interactions and welcomes any Bertolt Brecht references:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/ginnyjenny
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 10/3/2016	MidnightVoyager wrote: And besides, this is going back to the mayoral election where everyone seems way too angry about the fun online game. I hate it whenever the Mayoral election is used as a byword for "contentious" :P The Mayoral election wasn't particularly contentious and the vast majority of arguments were in good fun. And I say this as someone who backed the candidate who came in third and had fun losing ^^ edited by Anne Auclair on 10/3/2016 -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 10/3/2016	ginnyjenny wrote: As a (relatively) new player, I feel like I'm missing out on a lot of the lore that's been going in to these past few ES. I've yet to encounter the Dawn Machine, or understand how these characters connect to the greater story of Fallen London. I've been reading through, trying to get a sense of what all this is about and how my character would respond, particularly with the little I was able to glean about the Dawn Machine...I'm a little worried I'm going to make a choice and later realize I should have made a different one, once I have all the facts. The Conflagrati are introduced in this story, so everything you need to know is already in this story (they're not very complicated, really). If you want to learn more about the Dawn Machine, perhaps you should play The Gift and then The Last Dog Society. You'll have to pay fate though. edited by Anne Auclair on 10/3/2016 -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 9/30/2016	I helped the Conflagrati, stopped the Iconoclast from burning up, and told the Bluejacket to leave the money to the Iconoclast. My character's motivation was fairly straightforward: 1. Do the letter of the job she was hired to do and get the b___dy hell out of there. 2. Crush that New Sequence b__tard and stop the false god from getting a few more converts. Which she did. [spoiler]The Conflagrati are fairly nasty, but they're a new take on an old heresy, the new part being merely an Elder Continent disease that makes your soul burn up (lets leave aside that their heresy is unsettling close to Anne's own devotion to St. Joshua...). If the Iconoclast had set her cult up in downtown London it would present something of a problem, but since she's located/quarantined herself on a deserted island in the middle of nowhere and has stated her intent to keep her followers there with her it seems fairly safe to let them burn themselves out (literally). They'll use the money to presumably erect some sort of reverse-hospital where they inflame the disease rather than starve it. The Dawn Machine on the other hand is a new god and its servants are organized, armed, and have clear imperial ambitions, so they're the bigger threat. [/spoiler] Anyway, review time. There was a lot to like. This was an intimate and very entertaining glimpse into the viewpoints and practices of two Neathy religions. The writing had my attention throughout. The format was somewhat traditional - two opposing sides, with the balance of power hanging in your grasp, but it worked. Throughout the story I really felt that a lot of things could happen on that ship. I really liked the introduction of the Conflagrati - they may be a death cult, but they have style. The Iconoclast was very intriguingly written, a burning array of contradictions - set on achieving her spiritual conflagration, determined to guide/protect her followers, outwardly fanatical but filled with regrets and secret doubts. I'm glad they kept the zailing part of the story. The only weak part was the character of the Abiding Wife. She was a major part of the story, but I didn't really connect with her. In contrast to the complicated Iconoclast, the Wife felt kind of flat and one note? But then other players seem to have liked her, so maybe it's just me. The Visionary was also flat, but that worked in his favor as he's a slave to the New Sequence, which makes its followers singlemindedly devoted to the new dawn. Not one of my favorite stories, but quite enjoyable nonetheless. I can't wait to see what the long term consequences of my decisions will be with the Bluejacket. edited by Anne Auclair on 9/30/2016 -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Akernis Posts: 255 10/2/2016	Optimatum wrote: Kukapetal: (Also I got the impression that many of the fallen were injured rather than dead? I'm not sure how accurate that is.) edited by Optimatum on 10/2/2016 Why do we even think that any of them died at all? Or rather why do we think that they stayed dead? This is the Neath afterall, death is cheaper than unfashionable hats. Every member of both cults might easily be back around by dinner time comparing new scars earned in the line of duty. I imagine that death by a conflagration of the soul would be rather permanent, but a simple fatal bullet or stab wound should have been shrugged off within a week at most. I might have a problem with the way that the lack of death often ruins moments of drama if there's then barely anything stake, but this could easily be seen as the kind of situation where a moral character could justify doing what they did to stop the conflict since everyone hurt would be back more or less unscathed before long. -- Vena's profile - http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Akernis
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Akernis Posts: 255 10/2/2016	I didn't care that much for this particular story, as I don't have a lot of sympathy for religious fanatics. The story's saving grace for me was strangely enough the reward, something that is almost never the case. Namely being rewarded with an Element of Dawn, a mystical object that would certainly intrigue my character enough to serve as motivation for doing something that she would otherwise have little interest in involving herself in. While I don't play a particularly moral character, I too welcome when there is the options for both sides available, both to play good and evil. The path of a moral or evil character alike (and any nuances in between) are all the more satisfying when it is your choice and not an arbitrary decision of the game itself. . edited by Akernis on 10/2/2016 -- Vena's profile - http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Akernis
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Lamia Lawless Posts: 604 9/30/2016	I enjoyed this story. Spoilers for the meat of the story and ending below the cut. [spoiler]I made a mistake with this one. I decided to side with the Abiding Wife automatically, not because she gave me any compelling reasons to listen to her, but because my knee jerk reaction was "cults are bad." As I played on, though, I realized it would be more in-character for my character to try to help the Iconoclast. I mean, Harris and Mildred are both dying, so why should Harris's last wishes trump hers? And when I thought about it, the Abiding Wife never cared about what was best for the Iconoclast. This line, "I have always been the stake in the heart of my husband's happiness," showed clearly that she felt guilty about making her husband unhappy, not because she let something bad happen to the Iconoclast. But by then it was too late, and I had to go along with the Abiding Wife's schemes. All in all, the ending wasn't too bad, though. Probably best not to have (another) suicide cult running around in the Neath.[/spoiler] Other than the interesting characters and moral dilemmas, I was really happy with all the references to poetry. Voltaire, Swinburne, and John Gower. Someone else also pointed out that the last Exceptional Story in this series was based on this ballad. Literary references in Fallen London always make me happy, because everything from Victorian times and prior is usually public domain and easy to find on the internet. Also, while I was playing this, I kept wondering what it is about the Neath that seems to inspire fanatics of all types to sprout up everywhere. When somebody asked one of the Masters why animals speak in the Neath, it said that the Neath is a place of ambition. Afterwards, I noticed it really is a recurring theme: The Rubbery people, the rats and guinea pigs of Pigmote Isle, the Cousins, and the Pentecost Apes all long to have civilization, music, art, or a place of their own. So maybe people of the Neath are just really susceptible to falling prey to the various grasping powers that exist there (the Uttershroom, the sorrow spiders, the Fathomking, Mr. Eaten, etc). With the Dawn Machine it's obvious which power is trying to bring people under its influence, but the Conflagrati is a new one. Who in the world benefits from it? (I noticed hints about something that happened beneath the waves, maybe we'll learn more about the Conflagrati in Zubmariner?) -- The Harmonic Hellfarer
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Optimatum Posts: 3666 10/1/2016	Rhysdux wrote: I'm kind of lost with this story. There's a woman whose...soul is burning up somehow? And she has followers? Do they worship her as well as fire? And then there's some guy who keeps talking about machines and dawn, and HE has followers too, for some reason. I can't make out what either of them believe or what they would do if they had support. Both groups seem like fools (burning up souls seems dumb in a place where you can actual buy jars full of them, and why would you worship a machine?). I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I've been trying to gather information, but I'm not doing very well at it. I'd like to smash both cults and bring the Iconoclast and the Visionary to their senses, but I doubt that's possible. Background lore for context: [spoiler]The Iconoclast has animescence, a rare disease in which her own soul has caught fire and will, eventually, incinerate her. The disease is hastened by emotion and passion, hence why her followers are being very Hedonistic. For some reason there's a group called the Conflagrati who want to contract animescence themselves and burn up in some kind of transcendental experience. This is very possible - animescence is spread by being near someone with the disease while particularly passionate, ie happy, loving, angry, sad, anything. Animescence came up in Sunless Sea a couple times and is potentially cured once to everyone's astonishment. The Visionary worships the Dawn Machine, a mechanical man-made star. Some time ago a faction within the Admiralty, the New Sequence, began construction on the Dawn Machine to rewrite law to their will. Of course, their hubris caught up with them when it became sentient and promptly brainwashed them all. The New Sequence thus want to help complete the Dawn Machine and further its goals, so it can eventually dictate the laws of reality. The Visionary seems to be on the less-severe side of the brainwashing spectrum, from what I've read in people's journals, but not having favored him myself I don't know the exact details of his character. Of course, both leaders seem to have their share of regrets and doubts...[/spoiler] Mechanically, you only have to gather information if you wish to scheme, and that's done by helping both sides then taking the options to investigate and plan. Time is progressed by helping until you can take an option for the evening rites - which factions' option you take doesn't matter as they both lead to the same event. -- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome. Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi! PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Art Shrival Posts: 51 10/1/2016	There are parts of this ES that I really appreciated and others I did not enjoy so much. First and foremost, I was very grateful for the story mechanic at the wreck. Never did I feel like I was meaninglessly grinding on the island. Offering different story choices, even for actions that produced the same quality or repeated a cycle, was incredibly rewarding in terms of game play and I hope for a similar setup in future Exceptional Stories. Additionally, I was delighted by the content chosen for this ES. The Dawn Machine and the animescence? Ever since Sunless Sea, I've been enamored by both topics and found it a refreshing break from the usual cannibalism plots. [spoiler]In regards to what I enjoyed less, I found myself very detached from the Brazen Iconoclast and Sear-Eyed Visionary. Perhaps it was because I didn't care for all of the posturing and pontificating, or maybe the actions really were a little vague, but I felt indifferent to the events at the island and the people therein, as if I were viewing it through a lens rather than directly participating. I wish I could actually witness the Iconoclast's poet recite passionate verse rather than listen to the Iconoclast's claims that it is so, or witness the actual rhetoric of the Sear-Eyed Visionary instead of being told that my character did. It wasn't until I was given the option to do a little play for the Conflagrati that I cared about what I was doing, outside of merely progressing the machinations between the Abiding Wife and myself. Otherwise I really liked the people I met on the island. The Brazen Iconoclast seemed like a fun and terrible woman of reckoning, even after I towed her back to London, and the Sear-Eyed Visionary seemed like a sympathetic character from what little I was able to discern of his person. Also, I wish I could have witnessed just a bit more humanity from the background followers, even if I was never fated to encounter them again.[/spoiler]
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 10/2/2016	(spoilers for not only this story, but the Last Dog Society as well) [spoiler] So basically, this was the ending to the Last Dog Society all over again, except on a larger scale. Actively hurt someone to save someone else or be indecisive and double the casualties...and STILL not keep your hands clean because your meddling in something that was both 1.) Not your business and 2.) something you probably didn't fully understand was what caused the situation in the first place. Except now instead of having two dead people I never meant to hurt on my conscience, I've got dozens. Look, I get that not every story can have a perfect rainbows and puppydog ending. Sometimes life sucks and you just can't save everyone. And I also understand that trying to make moral choices in such a situation isn't easy and can be a very interesting dilemma. But the way the story is set up just didn't work on either level. First, while it's fine when there's no perfect choice, I hate it when there's no MORAL choice. As in, no matter what option you choose, you're still a villain in some way. Pick one side and betray and hurt the other. Pick the other side and betray and hurt the first one. Pick neither side and sit back and watch the chaos YOU sowed double the casualties. After all, the two Last Dogs probably wouldn't have agreed to that contest in the marsh if you hadn't been there meddling in things, playing both sides and leading both to believe they'd survive the contest because you'd help them cheat. The two cults wouldn't have been so evenly matched in the battle (leading to mutual destruction) if YOU hadn't been feeding them both info about the others. Basically, no matter which option you pick, you're an sshole. You're an sshole the moment you get involved. Literally the only moral option in a story like this is to not play it at all. Second, while having to decide what to do in a situation where there are no easy choices is very interesting, you should at least have a clear idea of what the choices ARE. I definitely felt my character being pulled in three directions while making the choices...but that was only because I misunderstood what the choices were. I thought the captain's wife was genuinely benevolent in her intentions, because she seemed to really want to help the Iconoclast. And it initially seemed like we were trying to find a peaceful solution...by undermining each leader's authority until their followers got discouraged and broke ranks. So I picked what I thought was the most moral option...only to find it was the evilest one of all. If I had known this route was the worst, I'd have avoided it. I'd still be making a hard choice, since now the most moral option for me would be to side with the woman I'd come to find and felt a moral obligation not to actively try to harm and against the cult I felt had evil intentions..........but the choice I WANTED to make was to side with cute Mr. Glowingeyes McPoofyhair because I found him endearing and my character wanted to please him (and I find out after the fact I could have gotten a hug! Oh, and an Element of Dawn too :P ). It would be a hard choice....do the right thing out of moral obligation or the wrong thing out of passion, but at least I'd know what I DIDN'T want to do. And I could have avoided it and gotten an ending that at least partly satisfied me instead of one that made me literally want a do-over. Hard choices are supposed to be hard because you feel yourself torn between what you know is right and what you really really WANT to do. Or because both choices seem moral, or immoral, in their own way. Not because you literally don't understand the choices or because you think you understand the choice only to have the rug pulled out from under you and told "Nope! That choice actually meant the opposite of what you thought it meant! Gotcha!" (I will, however, admit that I could be particularly dense and that I'm the only person who was confused about the wife's intentions, in which case tell me to shut up :P ) [/spoiler]
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suinicide Posts: 2409 10/2/2016	It's nice to have most stories end nicely, and Fallen London has this. But its also nice to have occasional stories to say no. You are not a God. You can't control this. And this story does so. And this can be a moral choice for several people. Do you support a semi-mindcontrolled but weak willed person. Or do you support the isolated death cult that is a danger to none but itself. Even when you decide to wear both down, the options on every day get more aggressive, preparing for war. From attend a rite to convert their followers to us to help us leave/prepare for an attack. The war was going to happen, regardless of your characters input. Edit: man, I did not put this together well. edited by suinicide on 10/2/2016 -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence. RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Gul al-Ahlaam Posts: 225 9/30/2016	I was a huge fan of this exceptional story. I like that it was primarily character-driven, as that's the sort of story I actually like to read, especially in the realm of Interactive Fiction. The characters felt realistic, well-rounded, and interesting, and I enjoyed learning more about them, and having my feelings for them grow more tangled and complex as a result. I think the story was paced excellently, and I really enjoyed how simple and straightforward the structure was. It left room for excellent characters, complex webs of friendship and obligation, and several of the most difficult choices in the game, for me at least. [spoiler] I may have to play the story again just to hang out more with the Abiding Wife. She was super cool. I intended to work with her and intrigue against both cults at first, but I ended up falling head over heels for the Visionary. (I love how nuanced the choices got toward the end. I was so happy when I found that you could advise him to stay on the island). I ended up bringing the Iconoclast back to London, out of a sense of obligation to the Bluejacket, and because I didn't want her dead, but when it came time to give her the Bequeathment, I found I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I loved the Visionary so much, and I couldn't bear to leave him with so little. It was kind of a heart wrenching decision, especially since I really cared about the Abiding Wife, and the option to try and mend things between her and her husband seemed like such a kind and beautiful thing to do, but in the end, I knew who I cared for more.[/spoiler] edited by Gul al-Ahlaam on 9/30/2016 -- The Uncanny Hierophant. The Jewel-Eyed Prince.
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Saklad Posts: 528 9/29/2016	Optimatum wrote: Listening to the Conflagrati confessions has someone confess "ex-sanguination". Is there supposed to be a dash in that word? Maybe they used to have blood, then stopped? -- Saklad5, a man of many talents
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babelfishwars Administrator Posts: 1152 9/29/2016	Jeremy Saklad wrote: radicalace wrote: I'm enjoying myself- although I spotted a typo at the point where you scheme with the Abiding Wife - "You've conspired with the Abiding Wife to sew dissent in the upcoming ritual." as well as at : The Evening RItual is here edited by radicalace on 9/29/2016 That really bothered me, but I didn’t have enough time to draw attention to it at the moment. I just barely had enough time to stop my actions from capping at the max (while savoring the text) as it was. The beatings [of typo causing writers] will continue until morale improves. (Do send in typo reports, I don't normally haunt the forums like* a jet-lagged ghoul. support@failbettergames.com ) as (Fixed, if unclear.) edited by babelfishwars on 9/29/2016* -- Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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phryne Posts: 1347 9/29/2016	Skinnyman wrote: James StAnthony wrote: snip Exceptional Friends may, over the next three months, help him settle his final regrets. Each month's story stands alone, but playing all three will unlock the season's bonus content. snip Finishing all three stories in the Season of Wrecks will make you eligible for an additional opportunity, to follow. snip Will these be two different things and will a player need to finish all the 3 stories within 3 months to acces the first part? Cheers! I strongly believe that the "bonus content" and the "additional opportunity" are the same thing. Concerning your second question: there is no time limit to accessing the seasonal rewards. Simply playing the 3 relevant stories - whether via subscription or bought with Fate - unlocks the reward storylet, and that storylet will remain open until you choose to play it! A question of my own: have the "Conflagrati" ever been mentioned before? The term seems strangely familiar, though I can't say where from... edited by phryne on 9/29/2016 -- Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Hattington Posts: 210 9/29/2016	I'm mostly in agreement with Robin-with one exception for just this installment in particular. I like the Dawn Machine a whole bunch and am pleased to have had an opportunity to advance its' hand just a little more, so I think this one will be the highlight for me of the whole set. Glory to the Machine. The Machine spins on. I have but one potential regret: Did I make the right choice in telling the Visionary to remain with his flock? I remember Mr. Irons mentioned ages ago on Twitter he's stocking weapons in preparation for the Machine's advance, and besides-the Visionary seemed a little flaky beneath the fervor. So I thought it might be in the Machine's best interests to build a stable foothold instead of extend its' reach beyond its' grasp. I still got the Dawn Element. I hope that's a good sign. edited by Hattington on 9/29/2016 edited by Hattington on 9/29/2016 -- The Dawnburnt Vake-Rider: https://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/Hattington
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Vavakx Nonexus Posts: 892 10/1/2016	I find myself really liking this story. (and not just because of my new Element of Dawn.) The Visionary and Iconoclast both were interesting characters and I was pleasantly surprised by the complex motivations of the Visionary by the end of it. If it could ever be a possibility, I would love to see more of the man (and the woman). While I didn't have quite the same experience with the Iconoclast (I supported the Dawn Machine, obviously), she also seemed like quite an interesting character to me. The cults themselves weren't quite as intriguing for me, but I still loved the leaders, and I hope we'll get to see more of them at some point in the future. One of my pet peeves is the fact that there isn't any explanation or description for the end reward. You just tell the Bluejacket what do to and bam you have an Element of Dawn. How does it look? How did it get here? We will never know because someone didn't bother adding a description by the end of the story. -- Amets Estibariz, the Moulting Eidolon: Cradled by a sun all their own. Blabbing, the Hobo Everyone Knows: The One Who Pulls The Strings. A Clarity In The Darkness. Charlotte and the Caretaker: A family?
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 10/2/2016	Again, I know the situation was crappy and not set up for a happy ending and nobody involved had a clean conscience. And if I'd stayed out of it, the fault would indeed be on all of them and not me. But I stuck my nose in, I meddled, I ultimately decided the direction the battle would go. Because of that, at least some of the blame will go to me, regardless of the fact that others are at fault as well. Once again, my problem was not that all possible endings were unhappy, it was that all possible choices were immoral. I didn't get to chose whether I hurt somebody or not, I only got to choose WHO I was going to deliberately hurt. The choice to act in an immoral way was made for me by the game and I only got to chose which group of people I was going to inflict my evil on. I'm being forced to act out of character by the game. edited by Kukapetal on 10/2/2016
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Mr Sables Posts: 597 10/2/2016	Anne Auclair wrote: So you wish there was a neutral option where you could sit back and watch them burn the ship down without your involvement? I know I certainly do . . . I assumed the 'neutral' option here would end in no bloodshed, but people seem to be saying that option just ends with bloodshed on both sides . . . if you play as a magnanimous character, or even just a character that doesn't actively want to hurt others, it is kind of weird that the only options available to you - as a player - are to hurt (or allow hurt) to come to others . . . the game allows for a moral code, with usually options on all stories to allow for a spectrum of moral/ethical choices, but - in this case - what I'm getting here is your only choices are to allow/inflict pain, so I can definitely see where Kukapetal is coming from. It reminds me of "The Waltz" where one was sort of railroaded into helping the woman, regardless of what her father may have wanted, as I know I certainly wanted a "warn him to get the heck out of dodge and screw her" option, only - well - it wasn't such a major deal ethically/morally, as you weren't watching people die unless you wanted to . . . edited by Robin Alexander on 10/2/2016
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 10/2/2016	Anne Auclair wrote: So you wish there was a neutral option where you could sit back and watch them burn the ship down without your involvement? edited by Anne Auclair on 10/2/2016 Ideally I'd like an option to try to stop the bloodshed. Neither side was evil or dangerous enough to justify killing them, so all three options were immoral. Why does the game assume I'll see a brewing conflict and automatically join in the slaughter? Because those were my only options. "Actively work against one, actively work against the other, or actively work against both." What if I don't want to do any of those things? The cult members may be idiots but they don't deserve to be killed. Said option doesn't have to end with everyone holding hands and singing "Kumbaya," either. If the writers still want to give us a bittersweet ending no matter what we choose, that's fine and there are plenty of ways to work with that. Maybe you can't save everyone. Maybe, despite your best efforts, they still end up fighting and you're forced to pick a side to fight for...purely to minimize casualties Then the ending would be similar to the one we got but you'd have a clean conscience because you at least didn't actively provoke the conflict. Or maybe you'd be able to convince followers on both sides that this is lunacy and have them withdraw from the conflict and go back to London with you....but you can never convince everyone and the battle still happens but with reduced numbers. Again, in this case, you couldn't stop it entirely but you minimized casualties. There's plenty of options to give us a bittersweet ending while still acting morally. If that's not an option, then yes, being allowed to withdraw would be the next best thing. Just because I can't stop potential trouble brewing doesn't mean I have to join in. If they're going to have an unjust battle no matter what, I'd rather wash my hands of it and let them duke it out than pick a side and join in the evil. However, I'm not a huge fan of this option because then you get the same problem "Discernment" had...throwing people out of exceptional stories they payed for because they don't want to make their character be evil. People who RP moral characters would be unfairly punished/screwed out of their money. If neither of those things are options and being evil is literally the only choice, then it should at least be clear WHICH evil option you're choosing. If the only options are "unjustly kill these people," "unjustly kill these other people," or "unjustly kill everyone," then I at least know what option I DON'T want to pick. I was robbed of my ability to make an informed choice and duped into picking the most evil option because it was unclear (at least to me) that that WAS the most evil option. This story really messed up my RPing, not only by forcing my character to be evil, but also undoing his previous character development. As I said in a previous post, the first Exceptional story I ever played had a similar problem. However, I tried to make the best of it and have my stupid, thoughtless character learn a lesson about playing with people's lives, resulting in him becoming a lot nicer. Now that he's pretty much done the exact same thing but on a larger scale, it;s like he never learned a thing.
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Vavakx Nonexus Posts: 892 10/1/2016	Estelle Knoht wrote: I am still having trouble not reading animescence as Anime Science. I liked the story in general, although the mechanics are a little confusing if you want to sabotage both sides - at first you'd think that progressing to the evening ritual meant picking a side due to its requirement of 15 Ascendancy, but turns out these two are just identical storylets. Giving us the option to play bridge with the Ailing Wife or at least some interaction with her on the ship, even once, could cut down on the monotony of zailing. I'd love to lose to her or something as opposed to just repeating another zee-trip (which presumably next month's story will have, too). If you come to visit the Bluejacket, you'll find out that the 3rd ES of this season will, most likely, not contain a zee-trip: [spoiler] Seek the wreck of the Bellot "If you head down the embankment from here, you'll see it stuck on a sandbank. My old first mate lives there. We have unsettled business, he and I..."[/spoiler] edited by Vavakx Nonexus on 10/1/2016 -- Amets Estibariz, the Moulting Eidolon: Cradled by a sun all their own. Blabbing, the Hobo Everyone Knows: The One Who Pulls The Strings. A Clarity In The Darkness. Charlotte and the Caretaker: A family?
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Optimatum Posts: 3666 10/2/2016	Kukapetal: A question. If your character tried to save lives by weakening both sides, couldn't that still in the realm of RP be considered a moral choice? Though both you and your character misunderstood the effect (and I agree that it wasn't clear enough) you tried to help everyone. I don't think there's quite so big a difference between supporting one side and undermining both in terms of casualties as you've said though. As I understood the different endings, either way a significant percentage of both sides will die. Supporting one side means they have more survivors, while sabotaging both means a small number on both sides lives. There's still no good choice, but the way I understood it your choice determines which survive rather than how many survive. (Also I got the impression that many of the fallen were injured rather than dead? I'm not sure how accurate that is.) edited by Optimatum on 10/2/2016 -- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome. Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi! PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 10/2/2016	Kukapetal wrote: Anne Auclair wrote: So you wish there was a neutral option where you could sit back and watch them burn the ship down without your involvement? edited by Anne Auclair on 10/2/2016 Ideally I'd like an option to try to stop the bloodshed. Neither side was evil or dangerous enough to justify killing them, so all three options were immoral. Why does the game assume I'll see a brewing conflict and automatically join in the slaughter? Because those were my only options. "Actively work against one, actively work against the other, or actively work against both." What if I don't want to do any of those things? The cult members may be idiots but they don't deserve to be killed. Said option doesn't have to end with everyone holding hands and singing "Kumbaya," either. If the writers still want to give us a bittersweet ending no matter what we choose, that's fine and there are plenty of ways to work with that. Maybe you can't save everyone. Maybe, despite your best efforts, they still end up fighting and you're forced to pick a side to fight for...purely to minimize casualties Then the ending would be similar to the one we got but you'd have a clean conscience because you at least didn't actively provoke the conflict. Or maybe you'd be able to convince followers on both sides that this is lunacy and have them withdraw from the conflict and go back to London with you....but you can never convince everyone and the battle still happens but with reduced numbers. Again, in this case, you couldn't stop it entirely but you minimized casualties. There's plenty of options to give us a bittersweet ending while still acting morally. If that's not an option, then yes, being allowed to withdraw would be the next best thing. Just because I can't stop potential trouble brewing doesn't mean I have to join in. If they're going to have an unjust battle no matter what, I'd rather wash my hands of it and let them duke it out than pick a side and join in the evil. However, I'm not a huge fan of this option because then you get the same problem "Discernment" had...throwing people out of exceptional stories they payed for because they don't want to make their character be evil. People who RP moral characters would be unfairly punished/screwed out of their money. If neither of those things are options and being evil is literally the only choice, then it should at least be clear WHICH evil option you're choosing. If the only options are "unjustly kill these people," "unjustly kill these other people," or "unjustly kill everyone," then I at least know what option I DON'T want to pick. I was robbed of my ability to make an informed choice and duped into picking the most evil option because it was unclear (at least to me) that that WAS the most evil option. It seems you and your character tried to stop the war by sabotaging both sides and you're unhappy that that didn't work out. The game didn't dupe you, it offered you a course of action and that course of action didn't have the effect you hoped it would. shrugs It seems less like you were forced to do evil and more like you tried your best to get things under control and it simply didn't work. You don't choose for the final battle to happen, it's the Visionary and Iconoclast who did, despite their respective gangs being weakened and demoralized. It seems that this battle would have happened regardless of what you did. . You have two cults of equal size, both unwilling to work together and both set on total victory. They've been skirmishing for some time before you show up. The Visionary managed to recruit half the Iconoclast's flock and the Iconoclast got even more culty in an attempt to stop him. The two sides have apparently been having little battles in the tide marshes surrounding the ship. They both sent spies into the other's flock in order to cause disruptions. So the war predates your arrival - it's not something that happened because you showed up and it's not something you provoke. Is it all that surprising that you cannot stop it? edited by Anne Auclair on 10/2/2016 -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 10/2/2016	My conscience is clear. I crushed that Dawn Machine twerp and set him on fire :P I have no doubt my character's spiritual guide, the Bishop of Southwark, would wholeheartedly approve. The situation was not set up for a happy ending. Like, you had some nasty family intrigue, an island divided between two antithetical cults, a woman with an incurable disease, and a large sum of money that has to go somebody. Like, it was going to be terrible no matter what you did. It's not really your fault: it's the Bluejackets, the Wife's, the Iconoclasts, and the Dawn Machines. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 10/3/2016	Right. Like I knew we were sabotaging both sides but it felt like we were sort of undermining the two leaders' authority to make their followers break ranks...instead of firing them up into an even worse frenzy. But again, I don't know if the writing was unclear or if I just didn't get it or made assumptions that had no real basis. All I know is that I was confused. Whether that's indicative of an actual problem with the writing or just limited to me and a few others I don't know.
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Inchoatl Posts: 45 10/3/2016	Well, that's kind of what I'm saying. At the start, it totally did feel like we were making the followers waver in their faith. But, as time went on, and the Abiding Wife allowed herself to act against the groups on the island instead of sitting by and, well, abiding, the undermining of both groups transformed into a more vicious, inflammatory sort of sabotage. IMHO, it kind of felt like a dam broke, and the Abiding Wife went from well intentioned meddler to viciously cold blooded saboteur over the course of the story as she let repressed resentment finally express itself. This is also combined this with the fact that after undermining both groups repeatedly, you end up trimming away all but the most zealous of each cult's followers. It's not particularly surprising that sabotage got rid of the more moderate members of each group first, and that a powder keg was what became of the concentration of the remaining zealots. -- Oh you lament the state of my immortal soul, but I shall have a life, a life as has not been seen or forgotten by the Neath in an age!
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 10/3/2016	Kukapetal wrote: Old School RPG magic mechanics say Lightning :P Or possibly wind. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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WuffleFlump Posts: 2 10/28/2016	I am a new player, and this was my first Exceptional story. There was a danger I would never pay for another story again if I thought they were all like this. Luckily, since it was on offer, I have been persuaded to try Waltz, and the two could not be more different. I hated Pyres, to the point that in the end I just took as few actions as I thought would end the story so I could get out of there. This was mostly due to the mechanics, but there were issues with the story too, whcih have already been mentioned by others. It's not obvious that you need to go through the evening rituals multiple times to progress. Once I found this out, it's very boring to read the same options again, and then do the same action again as an artificial way to extend time away. I'm used to it in other aspects of FL, of course, but I don't expect the same thing when I'm paying for it. While I can see the potential advantage in being immersed in a storylet in another location, I found being forced out of London exacerbated the problem. So far I haven't been stuck in a story for more than a couple of actions in a row if I wasn't taken with it: here I had to grind through this painful mechanic just to be able to go and do something more interesting back in London. Up until this point I hadn't realised the benefit of referring to characters by their traits e.g 'The Abiding Wife'. Here a couple of characters were referred to by real names, and I found I didn't know who was being referred to, and there was no way to go back and find out, because those actions were past. This further distanced me from the story. As a new player the lore elements were new to me, and the New Sequencers seemed to make a lot more sense than the Conflagrati, and it seems that wasn't really intentional. I agree with those who were upset that there was no 'inaction' option to resolve, for better or worse, but honestly by the time I got there I was so far from roleplaying this was a footnote. By contrast in Waltz, it was almost all character all the time. I didn't know the background to the people I interacted with, but each was interesting in their own right. I gladly expended actions I didn't need to because I wanted to hear as much as possible from everyone I talked to. Though I didn't have to, I focused on resolving the story and didn't deviate for other actions because I was enthralled. I didn't have to repeat anything (well, a little at the end, but only to work out what my options were, not because it was necessary to progress). I've heard 'story as reward' as an intention in the creation of FL, and Waltz was the embodiment of that for me. Pyres was a painful action-sink for little in-game reward, and a very poor introduction to the benefits of paying for content.
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 10/19/2016	Soooooo....on a mostly unrelated note, can anyone tell me why worshiping the Dawn Machine turns your teeth red? The multiple references in the text to the otherwise adorable Visionary's red stained teeth weird me out :P I'm assuming he's not a vampire or a red wine addict, so it's probably a side effect of being a Dawn Machine devotee, but why? Glowing eyes I can understand. Red teeth I can't :P Someone please enlighten me :P
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genesis Posts: 924 11/6/2016	I am replaying the Marsh-House and was surprised to realise that the Conflagrati were mentioned all the way then! -- http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/mikey_thinkin Keeping track of incomplete content and loose ends in Fallen London
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 10/5/2016	Optimatum wrote: Anne Auclair wrote: Optimatum wrote: The shipwrecks of course occur because the villagers of Mutton Island purposefully block all light from the windows facing out to zee, so that doesn't strike me as a good indicator. For all we know the Pyres could be fifty feet away, or it could be out somewhere more around the Shepherd Isles. The Shepherd Isles move around quite a bit and can be very far out to zee. Also, the Bluejacket makes no mention of them. My point being that we don't really have any landmarks or specific location knowledge, the Shepherd Isles being an example. We have testimony that Pyres is close to Mutton Island. This testimony is borne out from the wreckage of shipwrecks regularly washing up on its beaches. It slipped my mind that the Mutton Islanders blocking their lamps to cause the wrecks would stop us from seeing Mutton Island (omigawd, what is wrong with me?). But we don't see Mutton Island with our ship's lights and it plays no role in the story, which probably indicates its a little ways off. edited by Anne Auclair on 10/5/2016 -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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dov Posts: 2580 10/6/2016	I've now played (most of) this story, after reading this forum thread (I don't mind most spoilers). I have to say that I mostly agree with Kukapetal. While I don't personally feel 100% responsible for the eventual carnage, I think that the story's choices were not well designed and communicated. Even knowing full well in advance (from this thread) where the story goes, I could find no indication in the story's text which would lead me to believe that the &quotmiddle&quot option is not benign (until it's too late to do anything about it). And there's no reason why the game wouldn't offer an option to wash our hands clean of the whole mess and just leave. [spoiler]Personally, I've played the &quotmiddle&quot option twice, and aided the Conflagrati once, and ended up with no choice at the end except aiding the Wife and watch both sides go down. Given the options, I would have liked to aid the Conflagrati, but apparently this is only an option had I supported them at least two days out of the three. There's no in game indication of this!) And another weird thing: After the big showdown, we meet the Visionary, apparently &quothis faith broken&quot. Huh? Why? Because his followers died? This is never mentioned or explained. That's quite a change for a religious zealot leader. The game also tells you that &quotsomething must be done with him&quot. Why?? It's not like he was ever our enemy, or it was our mission to deal with him and his cult.[/spoiler] That said, this story includes one of my new favourable Fallen London quotes: &quotShe rewards you with a smile like a cat who has not only gotten the cream but also the home address of the milkman.&quot Love it. Overall, I liked the lore (Animescence, Conflagrati, New Sequence, ...), and some of the characters. The story mostly made sense and some of the options were fun. The mechanics were mostly OK, though a bit tedious towards the end. But the way the options led to limiting our eventual choices and consequences ended the story on a sour note for me. Here's my revised list of Exceptional Story ranking: Excellent: Lost in Reflections Cut with Moonlight The Frequently Deceased The Waltz that Moved the World Flint Where You and I Must Go Good: The Pentecost Predicament The Calendar Code The Art of Murder The Chimney Pot Wars Our Lady of Pyres Five Minutes to Midday Discernment The Haunting at the Marsh House Meh: The Last Dog Society The Seven-Day Reign The Court of Cats ---- edited by dov on 10/8/2016 -- Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how. (Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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Myrto Posts: 209 10/3/2016	Well, I was all prepared to have Myrto take the selfish option at the end. But the writers included the phrase "pen in his quavering hands," and all my intentions went to hell. So, I just wanted to do whatever the Bluejacket wanted. Bah! Preying on my sentimentality like that. -- Myrto, a mysterious veteran spy who is only on their own side. Married to navchaa! Edith Alpha Doyle, social climber with grand ambitions; Correspondent who would be happy to assist you in whatever way she can. , teenage orphan who came to the Neath to pursue a career in crime; monster-hunter. Currently on the Seeking road.
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suinicide Posts: 2409 10/3/2016	The gift didn't have the dawn machine. They might be messing it up with the wry functionary conversational bit. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence. RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Lamia Lawless Posts: 604 10/3/2016	Hark DeGaul wrote: I will admit, having thought on this one that I do think the story has problems, but not moral ones. By the time the debate happens you have (ironically) already chosen your side and are incapable of setting it right. If (for example) you support the Iconoclast for the first two events, but then decide based on new information that you would rather support the Visionary's cause, or vice versa, then it doesn't matter. From a mechanics standpoint it feels like you're trapped by your choices from an unusually early stage. Some of the best stories (exceptional or otherwise) are ones where people have changed their mind about who they supported halfway through and gone in a different direction and here you just can't do that. Maybe that's the point, but it's really not my style. This is the only ES I've ever considered resetting and I'll be doing it for my alt as soon as I'm able. Yeah, that is exactly the problem I had. [spoiler]Talking to the Abiding Wife never revealed more information. You just get "Oh, I have a plan, although it would be fiendish of me..." with no elaboration or details, and the only way to learn more is to plow straight ahead. I thought playing both sides was the "neutral" option and it turned out it wasn't at all.[/spoiler] I didn't realize how much of this story depended on players having familiarity with things from either Sunless Sea, or other Exceptional Stories, until I saw all the confused posts by new players. Going in, I already knew how I felt about the New Sequence and animescence, and I still had a hard time figuring out what to do. By the way, did anyone side with the Iconoclast and echo it? I really want to see what happened. -- The Harmonic Hellfarer
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Optimatum Posts: 3666 10/4/2016	Anne Auclair wrote: Optimatum wrote: The wreck was mentioned as being near Mutton Island though, right? That's not very far out to zee, and in FL it's entirely possible for the player to get wounded to the brink of death at Mutton Island and recover just fine. There are shipwrecks on the island itself and a continuous stream of wreckage washed ashore, likely from the wrecks that regularly occur off Mutton Island (good lord, how many zailors does that island kill?!). However, you don't see the lights of Mutton Island, so its not right offshore. The shipwrecks of course occur because the villagers of Mutton Island purposefully block all light from the windows facing out to zee, so that doesn't strike me as a good indicator. For all we know the Pyres could be fifty feet away, or it could be out somewhere more around the Shepherd Isles. -- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome. Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi! PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 10/4/2016	Optimatum wrote: Anne Auclair wrote: Optimatum wrote: The wreck was mentioned as being near Mutton Island though, right? That's not very far out to zee, and in FL it's entirely possible for the player to get wounded to the brink of death at Mutton Island and recover just fine. There are shipwrecks on the island itself and a continuous stream of wreckage washed ashore, likely from the wrecks that regularly occur off Mutton Island (good lord, how many zailors does that island kill?!). However, you don't see the lights of Mutton Island, so its not right offshore. The shipwrecks of course occur because the villagers of Mutton Island purposefully block all light from the windows facing out to zee, so that doesn't strike me as a good indicator. For all we know the Pyres could be fifty feet away, or it could be out somewhere more around the Shepherd Isles. The Shepherd Isles move around quite a bit and can be very far out to zee. Also, the Bluejacket makes no mention of them. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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BomiBoogie Posts: 15 10/19/2016	Kourkoumpina wrote: I always feel a bit sad doing these and not being able to play them through multiple times to see all text. I am still doing it and I am playing both sides as both seem mad to me. The issue is that as a new player of this wonderful game I have no clue on what either side represents and I cant say there is a lot of info in the story itself... As such, I really have no reason to support either from an RP perspective. My character is self centered and wants to make the most out of this situation and gain the most... I hope I am not shafted for trying to play both of them. As a new player, I have the same issues, although knowing the Conflagranti is more established, yet still a cult in my eyes. As a character who tends to be rational, I would rather not support either of them, although I cannot stay neutral as I would like to be, because it would need a higher number in "Conspiring on the Pyres" than I could acquire. That is why I also regret that going through the story is a one-time chance, I understand it makes sense though. I would love to side with the Abiding Wife though, as she is far the most sane person in the whole story. EDIT: I found the answer for my question in the previous comments of this thread, you have to observe the events before conspiring. edited by BomiBoogie on 10/19/2016 edited by Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook on 10/19/2016 -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/BomiBoogie - Seeking knowledge and eager to make this forsaken Neath a better place as humanly possible. Motto: "Never look a gift squid in the mouth."
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malthaussen Posts: 1060 11/19/2016	I was quite disappointed with this story, as I was forced to follow a given path because there was insufficient warning that certain actions would foreclose certain options. I would have chosen otherwise, had any alternatives been available. -- Mal -- "Of two choices, I always take the third." Will do all socials except Loitering or Private Evenings (all my Free Evenings are accounted for), and Affluent Photographer Betrayals only, please. I am not currently accepting calling cards. http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/malthaussen
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Catherine Raymond Posts: 2518 10/21/2016	Mr. Sails wrote: This story unfortunately didn't resonate too much with me. The main reason is perhaps mechanically related. I was quite confused as to what I was supposed to do once I reached the wreck, and what you did during the "day" didn't seem to impact the rituals too much anyways. You were free to choose sides as you wished. I spent more time being confused about how to snap up as much information as possible than actually chewing the cud. Secondly, the situation seemed somewhat forced to me. We're on a wreck, there's this nutty Narcissus who wants to burn up and be left alone, this other dude who thinks he's a Dawn Machine prophet and a bunch of followers, with on information on how they're sustaining their communities. The worldbuilding aspect was completely ignored in favour of character building, but somehow the characters didn't strike me as particularly interesting anyways. After last months powerstory that completely pivoted my character into an entirely different view of life and philosophy, this was a bit of a letdown. However, seems like there's lots of other peeps on here who enjoyed it, so I might just have esoteric tastes. edited by Cantankerous Captain on 10/1/2016 edited by Cantankerous Captain on 10/1/2016 I agree with your first objection, Captain. I've just started the story, having my first chats with the Iconoclast, and the story interface gives you no hints as to why your attempts to offer the Bequeathment elicit no apparent reaction from the Iconoclast but only raise Sequencer Ascendancy. [spoiler] Yes, she says, "I won't accept my lover's guilt" and complains that he didn't come himself. He's on his death bed, and she rattles on about swabbing the deck after a poisoning. Very strange, in my opinion, and to me it makes it harder to suspend disbelief. [/spoiler] -- Cathy Raymond http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355 Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Catherine Raymond Posts: 2518 10/21/2016	phryne wrote: Well, this one wasn't for me. Which is fine, as I've loved 90% of Exceptional Stories so far, it was bound to happen sooner or later It was the third ES I played within a week, after Calendar Code and Where You & I Must Go, and after these two excellent ones, Our Lady of Pyres was a major disappointment. Sorry, but I just could not care for anyone in this silly story. All I wanted to do at any point of it was wring my hands in despair and shout at these madpeople to leave me the f___ alone! Religious wars, meh. From my (purely personal) pov, I would've loved an option to just walk away from it all in the middle of the story. Or at least an option at the end to harangue the Bluejacket for wasting my time like that. Silly old bugger... edited by phryne on 10/3/2016 I'm not even at the end of Wreck of Pyres and I can already see how much fun it would be to give the Bluejacket the rough side of [my character's] tongue! I guess that's the way some of us felt about the Revolutionary and the Secular Missionary squabbling outside the Cave of the Nadir. ;-) -- Cathy Raymond http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355 Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Pnakotic Posts: 266 11/4/2016	I found this one pretty diappointing. It started off wonderfully, interesting new characters and factions were introduced, but once on the island I felt my decisions were a bit rushed [spoiler]3 days of observing the nightly festivities just wasn't enough time. I wanted to examine the sides in more depth, but I was quickly locked into siding with the wife and undermining both because I would have needed to choose a faction almost from the first night to do anything else. As a result I felt railroaded. The daytime events by themselves just weren't enough, and there wasn't any warning I'd only get the three evenings. (Or have to choose based on such limited infromation ahead of time.)[/spoiler] Overall, this is my least favorite since the Seven-Day Reign just because I didn't feel like I could progress through it the way I wanted (in the case of the Reign, it was partly because of website bugs, which frustrated me to no end). It's really sa shame, too, because I found the Conflagrati really interesting, and I've always been intrigued by the New Sequence. -- J. Ward Dunn, Glassman Book of All Hours 9:99: Journey's end in lover's meeting. Progress is ascendancy.
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 10/3/2016	See, that's not the issue I was having. The choice the mayor was forced into was clearly a horrible choice, but, depending on your values, one choice is more moral than the others. I'm fine with the game putting you into a bad situation and forcing you to make the best of it. But that wasn't what was happening here. In this story's situation, all three choices were bad things you were actively doing. You were actively choosing to hurt one group, hurt another group, or hurt both. Instead of being the poor mayor, forced to try to make the best of a horrible situation someone else put him in, you're put into the role of the Nazis, and your choices are "kill the resistance members," "kill the villagers AND the resistance members," or "make the mayor decide." All three options are evil things you are actively deciding to do. Meanwhile, some of us are saying "wait a minute, how did I become a Nazi? I never played as a Nazi before. My character wouldn't be okay with doing any of these things." But there's nothing you can so because the game just assumes you're a Nazi and you can only make Nazi choices. This is the issue I had. Not the fact that there wasn't an option to save everyone with the power of Love or some such silliness :P
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 10/3/2016	Has anyone else noticed that the first chapter of the Bluejacket's story involved Ice and the second part involved Fire? Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice. What will the third chapter bring? -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 10/3/2016	Dubinee Finnat wrote: Kukapetal wrote: I knew you were talking about me, I wasn't. I'm sorry that you thought so. Yes you were. I was the one complaining about not being able to make moral choices. You were clearly criticizing and parodying the points I brought up. Have the courage to stand behind what you say instead of backpedaling when you are challenged on it. I mean this in the gentlest, most discussion-encouraging way possible, lest the mods think I'm getting feisty
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 10/3/2016	Moral choices/being a good guy in this case means not killing people or actively doing things I know will bring about deaths. It's about seeing a bad situation and not having my only choices be "kill" "kill" or "double kill!" Again, I'm not saying I have to completely succeed. Maybe I just can't stop these people from tearing eachother apart and all I can do is try to save as many people as I can. Maybe not even that many. Maybe I still end up staring at the carnage and crying while the couple of people I managed to save huddle behind me...but at least I didn't look at a brewing conflict and shout "me too! Me too!" and then go stain up my hands with their blood. Because my character wouldn't do such a thing. I don't know where this bourgeois stuff is coming from. I just don't like the game deciding my character is going to choose to stick around and hurt people.
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Catherine Raymond Posts: 2518 10/2/2016	Anne Auclair wrote: My conscience is clear. I crushed that Dawn Machine twerp and set him on fire :P I have no doubt my character's spiritual guide, the Bishop of Southwark, would wholeheartedly approve. The situation was not set up for a happy ending. Like, you had some nasty family intrigue, an island divided between two antithetical cults, a woman with an incurable disease, and a large sum of money that has to go somebody. Like, it was going to be terrible no matter what you did. It's not really your fault: it's the Bluejackets, the Wife's, the Iconoclasts, and the Dawn Machines. I'm not feeling flush enough for Exceptional membership right now, but I expect the tables to turn later this month and if they do, I expect to take the same side you did, Anne, as my character is a Bishop supporter. -- Cathy Raymond http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355 Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Optimatum Posts: 3666 10/2/2016	The wreck was mentioned as being near Mutton Island though, right? That's not very far out to zee, and in FL it's entirely possible for the player to get wounded to the brink of death at Mutton Island and recover just fine. -- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome. Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi! PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 10/2/2016	Because it isn't fair from a gameplay perspective. It's just pulling the rug out from under us and saying "Gotcha! your choice didn't matter and you ended up doing the exact opposite of what you meant to do! There was no way to save them and by trying, all you did was kill even more!" It's giving us a false choice and then leaving us sitting in the wreckage of our mistake soaked with the blood of the people we tried to save. Sure, maybe it's realistic, but....let me ask this. Suppose you were playing as someone who wanted to support the iconoclast. Everything you did in the story was aimed toward that goal...and then, in the end, you find out that the spies from the other side had infiltrated deep into her cult and were secretly working against you and everything you did you help the Iconoclast was somehow turned against you to help the other side. Your Iconoclast supporting playthrough actually propelled the other side to absolute victory and left you soaked in the blood of the Iconoclast and her followers. In fact, even more of them died than if you hadn't supported her at all. Sure, having spies pull the wool over your eyes and fool you into helping the other side might be realistic, but as a player....wouldn't you feel cheated by the game? Wouldn't you feel like your choices didn't matter and were invalidated by gameplay mechanics beyond your control? Mechanics that the game didn't even warn you about and instead revealed only after it was too late, leaving your entire playthrough of the story moot? Realistic or not, it's pretty unpleasant to be on the receiving end of such a mechanic. (again, this is assuming that the "middle of the road options" were legitimately presented as "benevolent" options. It is entirely possible that they were always intended to be the most malevolent choice and either the writing was unclear or I'm just dense :P )
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suinicide Posts: 2409 10/1/2016	Nope -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence. RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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rahv7 Posts: 294 10/1/2016	The story was okay although it's nowhere near my favourite. I didn't like the ending, though: Two factions live for months together on a small island. Once I get there, they decide out of the blue to smash each other's heads in (Out of the blue in the sense that there was a disputation the night before and a pageant on the very same day they decided war would be a good idea). And I had no chance to prevent this or at least to get out of there. Also, a question concerning the very beginning of the story: Why was there a Conflagrati procession in London? They've never been mentioned before and they story later on suggested that they're not interested in going to London. Why did they stop at the Breakwater House when the Iconoclast apparently wasn't aware of the Bluejacket's whereabouts? Am I missing something? -- It's possible people have forgotten that there is an actual devil in the actual Lord Mayor's office. A devil who is promising to look after people's souls. What is wrong with everybody? https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/rahv7
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Blaine Davidson Posts: 388 9/30/2016	I can't seem to ever get more than 1 for the value of "Conspiring on the Pyres". Am I doing something wrong? -- Blaine Davidson, a reserved and sensible woman with a fondness of collecting rarities.
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Blaine Davidson Posts: 388 9/30/2016	Blaine Davidson wrote: I can't seem to ever get more than 1 for the value of "Conspiring on the Pyres". Am I doing something wrong? Nevermind, I didn't realize you had to talk to the wife one last time after determining what was going on in both camps. I will be redoing this story, I am not happy with how it went. -- Blaine Davidson, a reserved and sensible woman with a fondness of collecting rarities.
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Rhysdux Posts: 19 10/1/2016	I'm kind of lost with this story. There's a woman whose...soul is burning up somehow? And she has followers? Do they worship her as well as fire? And then there's some guy who keeps talking about machines and dawn, and HE has followers too, for some reason. I can't make out what either of them believe or what they would do if they had support. Both groups seem like fools (burning up souls seems dumb in a place where you can actual buy jars full of them, and why would you worship a machine?). I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I've been trying to gather information, but I'm not doing very well at it. I'd like to smash both cults and bring the Iconoclast and the Visionary to their senses, but I doubt that's possible.
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rahv7 Posts: 294 10/2/2016	Chuck wrote: So, does anyone have any idea which ending grants the Element of Dawn? PM'ed -- It's possible people have forgotten that there is an actual devil in the actual Lord Mayor's office. A devil who is promising to look after people's souls. What is wrong with everybody? https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/rahv7
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 10/2/2016	As I said, I'm aware that not all stories end perfectly and I know my character isn't a god. That doesn't mean I want him to be forced to be evil no matter what he does. There's a difference between not being able to prevent bloodshed or save everyone no matter what you do, and actively doing things that will cause deaths. Every option in this story and the other one I mentioned had us doing the latter.
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Barse Posts: 706 9/29/2016	I enjoyed this one! I'm pleased that each of the Wrecks stories seem be differentiating themselves from one another well - this is about a far as one can get from the chilly wastes of last month. More New Sequence text is always a welcome thing, and I felt that the options left me latitude to side with and/or mess with each faction as I wanted, rather than railroading me into picking one of a list of options that didn't resonate. I'm feeling increasingly bad for the poor Bluejacket - please don't break my heart next month! edited by Barselaar on 9/29/2016 -- The Scorched Sailor, up for most social actions and RP. Not as scary as he looks.
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Zinfandel Quid Posts: 4 9/29/2016	I am having a wonderful time with this story so far. I got hooked into this world through Sunless Sea, and seeing hints of the Dawn Machine and learning more about animescence (or aminescence? I note that this story is spelling it 'ami' but I believe SS had it flipped) is getting me pretty revved up. I had a memorable shock during SS when I lost the Brisk Campaigner due to the progression of her animescence, right when I started grasping the conversion economies well enough to prepare to get her the right fixes. Perhaps I am somehow hoping to redeem this slippery failure through this story... In any case, I am enjoying the slow reveals, the crisp yet gradual outlining of forms and factions and desires. It is very promising, and I wish I'd left myself more actions to burn through before starting it! -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Zinfandel~Quid
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radicalace Posts: 7 9/29/2016	I'm enjoying myself- although I spotted a typo at the point where you scheme with the Abiding Wife - "You've conspired with the Abiding Wife to sew dissent in the upcoming ritual." as well as at : The Evening RItual is here edited by radicalace on 9/29/2016 -- My Profile
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Barse Posts: 706 9/29/2016	As PSA, until something is fixed (which I imagine will be soon) do not raise any Fervours past 5 - I am currently stuck in storylet I can't perhaps not out of, unable to play any options. (Support email sent, of course, but maybe this will help some others from hitting a similar roadblock.) EDIT - Already fixed, leaving this here just in case people saw it and get confused by its deletion. Everything is fine, go about your business. edited by Barselaar on 9/29/2016 -- The Scorched Sailor, up for most social actions and RP. Not as scary as he looks.
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Saklad Posts: 528 9/29/2016	Zinfandel Quid wrote: I am having a wonderful time with this story so far. I got hooked into this world through Sunless Sea, and seeing hints of the Dawn Machine and learning more about animescence (or aminescence? I note that this story is spelling it 'ami' but I believe SS had it flipped) is getting me pretty revved up. I had a memorable shock during SS when I lost the Brisk Campaigner due to the progression of her animescence, right when I started grasping the conversion economies well enough to prepare to get her the right fixes. Perhaps I am somehow hoping to redeem this slippery failure through this story... In any case, I am enjoying the slow reveals, the crisp yet gradual outlining of forms and factions and desires. It is very promising, and I wish I'd left myself more actions to burn through before starting it! That freaked the hell out of me. I happened to have some Mutersalt on board, though, so I was able to put it off long enough to make a mad dash for a cure. -- Saklad5, a man of many talents
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Luminen Walker Posts: 172 9/30/2016	Received a notification about nine minutes ago in my messages tab: [spoiler] "The dust. The sun in your eyes. Everything changes. Everything stays the same. Moving."[/spoiler] I've never seen this before and as I've just completed the story this felt like the right place to mention it and ask: Does anyone know what this is about? -- 1 - Cpt. Martin Walker, a Paramount and Marvellous Dreamer. 2 - Ariana Crivelli, a silent and sagacious lady.
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folklore364 Posts: 136 9/30/2016	Hmmm, I was sowing a bit of chaos between the two groups and received this line. [spoiler] Be sober, be vigilant, because your adversary walketh about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour"[/spoiler] -- A correspondent who hungers for knowledge. May have doomed london to war with Hell. http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/folklore364
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Ombler Posts: 6 9/30/2016	I chose to take the bequeathment myself because of course I did. http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Ombler?fromEchoId=9737170 Reward was [spoiler] A Long-Box[/spoiler] TeslaWalker wrote: Received a notification about nine minutes ago in my messages tab: (Spoiler) I've never seen this before and as I've just completed the story this felt like the right place to mention it and ask: Does anyone know what this is about? This is almost certainly related to the New Sequence and the Dawn Machine. EDIT: Wasn't quoting the spoiler right. edited by Ombler on 9/30/2016 -- Ombler Leonard von Hoffenburg (gone north) McCribbins
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Optimatum Posts: 3666 9/30/2016	folklore364 wrote: Hmmm, I was sowing a bit of chaos between the two groups and received this line. [spoiler] Be sober, be vigilant, because your adversary walketh about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour"[/spoiler] ...I've seen that exact line before in a message but it was definitely not related to this story. In fact, it wasn't related to any story, so to speak. Lamia Lawless wrote: (I noticed hints about something that happened beneath the waves, maybe we'll learn more about the Conflagrati in Zubmariner?) Given the previous story was related to a certain Harris, who will quite likely be further featured or expanded upon in Zubmariner, it seems a reasonable guess. Deathwatch101 wrote: Is there anything other than the [spoiler]Evening Ritual's ive done Glimpses of the Future[/spoiler] But even after some other little One of a time options i don't have an additional card and those two are left to me as a choice. The evening rituals are the way to progress the story, with iirc four being done total. It doesn't matter which one you choose each night, they both lead to the same event. edited by Optimatum on 9/30/2016 -- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome. Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi! PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Alexandra Mavrokordatou Posts: 2 9/30/2016	The writing in this month's story was simply beautiful. I sided with the Conflagrati and let the Iconoclast burn. It felt poetic, and befitting her character. Who am I to judge whose dying wishes are more important? (If anything, she's worked for it a lot harder than anyone else has in this story.) After that, I gave the Bequeathment to his Wife. For that I received [spoiler]a Bottle of Fourth City Airag: Year of the Tortoise, but no message.[/spoiler] I also liked the possible allusion to the sati custom (in atypical Fallen London style) - in this case, the mistress, and not the wife, went before the husband, and by her own accord. Fascinating. -- Alexandra Mavrokordatou, Scholar of the Correspondence http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Alexandra~Mavrokordatou
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suinicide Posts: 2409 9/30/2016	TeslaWalker wrote: Optimatum wrote: What ending did you get? I helped the Conflagrati, saved the Iconoclast, and gave the Bequeathment to the wife, and I have no message. Turned them against eachother, told the visionary to leave, brought the iconoclast back, and gave the bequeathment to the wife. I don't know if the story and the message were related but I figured I'd post in here incase they were. That message is from another storynexusgame. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence. RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Hark DeGaul Posts: 208 9/30/2016	So, as a good little Dawn Machine acolyte I decided to help the Visionary and urge him to stick with his original plan. I am a little peeved that I was not given access to an Element of Dawn giving ending, but I felt it was the best thing to do at the time. It was also nice to get to see a New Sequencer who was not either unambiguously evil or completely brainwashed. -- The Dawn-Eyed Optician: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Hark%20DeGaul That Vicar Who Ruined the Royal Wedding for Everyone (including himself): http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Hebediah%20Fix The Dreaded Relative: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Your%20Aunt
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October Exceptional Story: Our Lady of Pyres