Blaine Davidson
Posts: 388
8/28/2016
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In the most recent Exceptional Story we learn that clothing, food, and enough money for a month's rent is possible with just five Echoes. But how accurate is that? If I recall correctly, when the Bazaar took over London they made the value of a Pound equal to a penny, with one hundred pennies making an Echo. This would make an Echo worth a hundred pounds, and thus 500 Pounds should allow someone to survive a month in Victorian London. I posed this same question regarding the Pounds to Pennies to Echoes conversion over in this week's edition of the Weekly Questions but so far no one has been able to find the snippet so I may be outright imagining it.
Now, using this sources here, here, and here I've calculated that:
- A month's worth of rent would be about 9 Pounds.
- Clothing for the Mother and child is about 3-6 Pounds.
- And food costs equal about 9-12.5 Pounds.
- Additional expenses is about 4-5 Pounds.
So we can see that at most, the total cost of living barely even reaches 40 Pounds a month. Unless our character decided to be exceptionally generous as well and donate over 450 extra pounds for spending money to this lucky family.
I have to say that this is the most immersion breaking thing I have ever encountered in all my years of playing Fallen London. I demand a refund for this month's Exceptional Story as well as a hand-written apology for this grievance. What a travesty, I am so disappointed in you FailBetter.
[spoiler]Just kidding. Where You and I Must Go has been one of my favourite Exceptional Stories to date. Plus I'm certain that there's something wrong with my math that someone will be quick to point out shortly.[/spoiler]
edited by Blaine Davidson on 8/28/2016
EDIT: Ok, so assuming my recollection is wrong (and it likely is) the next best bet would be that the Pound to the Echo is equal. But there is no way that 5 Pounds is enough to cover our 40 Pound cost of living.
So my next step is to look at the Fistful of Surface Currency. The picture has ~20 coins, and I think most of us could fit 20 coins in our hands.
So a Fistful of Pounds equals 3 pennies. We're getting somewhere. Do the math and 5 Echoes would be worth...
166.67 Pounds. Still too immersion breaking FailBetter, please fix. This could pay for 4 months of living in London.
edited by Blaine Davidson on 8/28/2016
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Blaine Davidson, a reserved and sensible woman with a fondness of collecting rarities.
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Johnny Felix
Posts: 180
8/29/2016
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Robin Alexander wrote:
It doesn't really explain the exact conversion rate, but one person says that there are a hundred pennies in an echo, which seems to be the general consensus in terminology I've heard used about the community. So I'd guess it's one pound to the echo?
Actually, no. While a hundred pennies equal an Echo; a hundred surface pennies were not one surface Pound. (Decimal system!? What are we, Bonapartists?) To do a conversion for 19th century Pounds, 12 pennies give one shilling, and 20 shilling give one soverign, which is one Pound (Sterling). I spare you guineas, crowns, farthings etc.
So, a Pound is 240 pennies, or 2,4 Echoes. When you needed 5 pounds to make a living on the surface, you'll need 12 Echoes in the Neath.
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NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
8/28/2016
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So what I'm hearing is thatt the heptagoat costs enough that you could reasonably live close to ~2700 years on its echo value. Alternatively, you could help ~2700 individuals live for a month for free.
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Lady Taimi Felix
Posts: 202
8/28/2016
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Blaine Davidson wrote:
So my next step is to look at the Fistful of Surface Currency. The picture has ~20 coins, and I think most of us could fit 20 coins in our hands.
So a Fistful of (Currency) equals 3 pennies. We're getting somewhere. Do the math and 5 Echoes would be worth...
I think the elusive element in trying to compare surface currency to echoes is that the Masters themselves (presumably at the behest of the Bazaar) have obscured, outlawed, or devalued many of the trappings of the former surface life, such as London maps, unexpurgated historical records, and the like. So surface currency might very well be discouraged/undervalued as "Oh, those old things? How dull. They don't even tingle if you taste them."
edited by Lady Taimi Felix on 8/29/2016
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Lady Taimi Felix: Devoted Wife. Invisible Eminence. Patron of the Shadowy Arts. Monster Hunter. Lady of Adventure. Exceptionally Lethal. Loves a Good Chat over Coffee.
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PSGarak
Posts: 834
8/29/2016
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I would not assume that the cost of living in Fallen London is the same as it was in London. For one thing, there's no fresh produce! Beer, bread, wine, and many other staples have all been replaced with fungus-equivalents, which may be more expensive to produce.
London was also a commerce-centric city at the time, and it's likely many goods and services were cheaply available through trade rather than local production. Fallen London is now much further away from countries that it previously had a trade relationship with, increasing the cost of imported goods.
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
8/28/2016
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Blaine Davidson wrote:
If I recall correctly, when the Bazaar took over London they made the value of a Pound equal to a penny, with one hundred pennies making an Echo.
Do you remember where you read this? I didn't think the value of the echo had ever been set in stone. Otherwise, I'm endlessly fascinated by discussions of the everyday side of life in Fallen London - something I particularly loved about this Exceptional Story was all the glimpses of the Neathy economy and the resources it demands.
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Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Blaine Davidson
Posts: 388
8/28/2016
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Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
Blaine Davidson wrote:
If I recall correctly, when the Bazaar took over London they made the value of a Pound equal to a penny, with one hundred pennies making an Echo.
Do you remember where you read this? I didn't think the value of the echo had ever been set in stone. Otherwise, I'm endlessly fascinated by discussions of the everyday side of life in Fallen London - something I particularly loved about this Exceptional Story was all the glimpses of the Neathy economy and the resources it demands.
I only vaguely remember reading a short bit of text way back when I first started playing the game. Because I recall after reading it having a small chuckle at how worthless the Masters had made the Pound.
And from there I always had it stuck in my head that "one Echo is actually worth a hundred Pounds". I'm really hoping someone can verify or clarify this. Because it's very possible I misread the Bazaar tab text's "100 pennies" as "100 pounds" by accident.
edited by Blaine Davidson on 8/28/2016
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Blaine Davidson, a reserved and sensible woman with a fondness of collecting rarities.
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Professor Strix
Posts: 616
8/28/2016
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In the "Bazaar" tab of the browser version, you can find it:
"Welcome to the Bazaar. We are looking forward to meeting your money. Echoes are the currency of the Bazaar. One hundred pennies are one Echo. Get Echoes by selling the treasures you acquire. Mouse over an item to see details."
I find it more than possible that 5 echoes are enough to cover a modest living for a month. Let's just remember that 5 pounds then are worth a lot today, due to inflation and other financial black magic things. Besides, jsut think that people then didn't have to pay electricity and phone bills, which makes life significantly cheaper.
EDIT: Just found this table: http://www.victorianweb.org/economics/inflation.html
According to this, 5 pounds then were worth 360 pounds now. Enough for a modest one month life, I think.
Just keep in mind this: http://www.victorianweb.org/economics/wages.html
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Teaspoon
Posts: 866
9/3/2016
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Having been casually comparing various aspects of the Traitor Empress' personality to the real Queen Victoria's diary, for a lark, my conclusion is that no one's particularly interested about the precise details of historical accuracy. (Was the Queen's wedding dress made of ivory organza? No it wasn't, so what you've bought from the Relickers is a 312.5 echo fake.)
Even allowing for the squid-men running about London, making comparisons will only end in tears.
edited by Teaspoon on 9/3/2016
edited by Teaspoon on 9/3/2016
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absimiliard
Posts: 759
9/8/2016
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Estelle Knoht wrote:
The fact that one can go to Labyrinth of Tigers to eat Rubbery Lumps and somehow come out an Echo richer is big enough of a warning sign.
A sign that one ought not eat rubbery lumps.
A pretty clear one too.
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Eating nightmares from friends -- and I'm easy to befriend.
Absimiliard: the Black Rose of Wolfstack Docks
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
9/8/2016
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absimiliard wrote:
Estelle Knoht wrote:
The fact that one can go to Labyrinth of Tigers to eat Rubbery Lumps and somehow come out an Echo richer is big enough of a warning sign.
A sign that one ought not eat rubbery lumps.
A pretty clear one too.
If everyone eats Rubbery Lump for good living money instead of doing petty thefts for 1 penny per action we won't even need Constables.
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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
9/8/2016
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Teaspoon wrote:
Having been casually comparing various aspects of the Traitor Empress' personality to the real Queen Victoria's diary, for a lark, my conclusion is that no one's particularly interested about the precise details of historical accuracy. (Was the Queen's wedding dress made of ivory organza? No it wasn't, so what you've bought from the Relickers is a 312.5 echo fake.)
Even allowing for the squid-men running about London, making comparisons will only end in tears.
The fact that one can go to Labyrinth of Tigers to eat Rubbery Lumps and somehow come out an Echo richer is big enough of a warning sign.
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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
8/28/2016
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NiteBrite wrote:
So what I'm hearing is thatt the heptagoat costs enough that you could reasonably live close to ~2700 years on its echo value. Alternatively, you could help ~2700 individuals live for a month for free.
One of those numbers is wrong, if both are using the same base numbers: 2700 years != 2700 months
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