An Individual
Posts: 589
8/26/2016
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As has been widely reported, there is an "easter egg" in the latest Exceptional Story. I'll save the debate as to whether or not it actually qualifies as one for another time. For now, what I want to talk about is that the storylet that leads into it contains this phrase.
The Game wrote:
[We ask that everything which happens beyond this point be kept strictly secret. Whether or not you do - as is true of what you have already done here - is strictly on your conscience.]
Requests like this in Fallen London are extremely rare. The only other instances I'm aware of are Ambition: Enigma and the end of Seeking Mr. Eaten's Name. I'll be blunt. While it's certainly within Failbetter's right to make requests like this, I don't think this request should be here.
The fact that requests like this work at all is a testament to the community. In any other game I would expect a full guide to Ambition: Enigma and a document with all the Seeking endings to appear right at the top of search results and I think that the reason they work is simple. In keeping these secrets we are preserving something for the other members of the community.
You can find all the text buried behind Ambition: Enigma's wall of secrecy echoed on various mantelpieces throughout the Neath. But you will pry the secrets of how to get there from my cold dead hands. We don't talk about Ambition: Enigma because all the joy it has to offer comes from finding and solving its puzzles. The wall of secrecy doesn't protect hidden lore. It preserves the experience of the hunt for others. There's a reason the item I'm most proud of is that eggshell sitting on my mantelpiece.
The Seeking Mr. Eaten's Name endings are slightly more complicated. Here, there is hidden lore buried behind the veil of secrecy. But it's not the lore that's being protected. Seeking is a spiral of obsession and self-destruction in pursuit of a mystery. The farther you fall the more layers you peel back. I haven't crossed the threshold yet but I do have a character teetering on the brink; trapped between the pull of the unknown and fear of the finality of the price. I could just turn back here and if I already knew what was behind that veil, or even if I felt I could still learn it from others after turning back, this would be an easy choice to make. Here, preserving the secret means preserving this core Seeking experience for everyone else.
So what is this latest veil of secrecy protecting? What makes this different from the bad choices you make in things like "The Gift" or "Flint" or "Secrets Framed in Gold"? Why is there more secrecy here than there is for anything else in the story, or any other fate locked story, or things like the Passion destiny? Frankly, I don't think we're protecting some special experience for the rest of the community. All we have here is secret lore, and that's no fun.
Lore collection in Fallen London (at least, at the community level) is a very collaborative experience. Fallen London lore is deep and detailed, but also scattered and mysterious. Hints are dropped everywhere, but there can be a separation of months or years between seeing two related hints. Being able to share what you've found with the community and working together to put together the pieces and build a fuller picture is all part of the fun. Lore locked behind a veil of secrecy flies in the face of that. It isolates you and isolation without purpose is just frustrating.
I think the broader point I'm trying to make here is that these requests for secrecy need to be used sparingly and for the right reasons. They've worked so far, but if they become common and all they're protecting is the knowing of things they'll lose their power. And I don't want to see that happen because there are some secrets in this game worth preserving.
(Note: Please don't PM me with request to know what's being hidden. While I may not agree with this secrecy request, I intend to honor it.)
edited by An Individual on 8/26/2016
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An Individual's Profile
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Scholaring the Correspondence? A Brief Guide to Courier's Footprint.
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Gone NORTH? Opened the gate? Throw your character in a well.
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Ian Hart
Posts: 437
8/26/2016
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I haven't found the secret yet (both of my characters are totally frozen because it would tear me apart to move forward risking never finding out the secret) but I definitely think having missable content inside paid content, and not having any way for the community to share how to get it or what it was, is a definite misstep.
If this is interpreted as an abuse of the dev-player relationship (a way to convince people to pay real money to replay the content until they solve the mystery) then I could see it as losing the dev-player trust, and that would be far worse than revealing whatever the mystery might be...
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Antifinity
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phryne
Posts: 1351
8/27/2016
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Tarantula wrote:
So you can echo things past the Gate? Yes, at least one player has already done that.
Ian Hart wrote:
[...] but I definitely think having missable content inside paid content, and not having any way for the community to share how to get it or what it was, is a definite misstep. Totally agree with this. Hidden branches or secret content in ES are definitely not a good idea IMO. The size and importance of the secret doesn't even matter, those who learn of its existence after playing the story will feel they missed out on something - and the only way to give it another try is to reset the (already paid-for) story by paying further money. No, I definitely don't like it.
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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aegisaglow
Posts: 202
8/27/2016
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I didn't know it came with this warning, and now I feel a little bad asking for an echo of it like several other people did.
But then, that sort of illustrates the problem of both announcing an "easter egg" and then asking that it be off-limits for discussion.
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Mx. Aglow. Glazier, hedonist, devil-teaser, Paramount Presence. Pursuing their Heart's Desire.
Ms. Lilian Leith. A lady of proper standing, which seems like an increasingly ludicrous thing to give a rat's ___ about. Known (to some) for her Light Fingers.
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Harlocke
Posts: 506
8/27/2016
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I'm a little irritated since I didn't learn there was an Easter Egg until after playing through most of the story. Not everyone is monitoring the FBG Twitter. This is after playing through the ES very cautiously, performing and journaling every available action to not skip anything. Now I either have to miss out on the lore, pay for the same story again, or bother people on the forum until they share the secret. I think requests for secrecy are all well and good, if used sparingly, but probably not on things you can easily overlook and lock yourself out of.
From now on I'll have to be more cautious when playing ES and consult the forum first, which is a little bit of a bummer. I'd rather jump into the story, make my own choices and plot my own course, then first consult other players for story enjoyment strategies and metagame to receive all the content.
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I welcome social actions, and can visit your salon as an author.
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Barse
Posts: 706
8/26/2016
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I have weird feelings about this too, but in this case I think what was mismanaged was the announcement of the "easter egg" and calling it an easter egg to begin with. I stumbled across the secret without knowing there was a secret at all, and the plea for secrecy took me by surprise. I read the following with great interest, puzzlement and not without some confusion as to why this should remain "strictly secret".
But what has divided the community in this way, I think, is the public announcement that there is something to be found, and the private, player-to-player plea to keep the whole thing secret. They appear to advocate different approaches. A public announcement of puzzles to be solved will necessarily start a public effort to solve them (at least in a fabulous community like this one). The secrecy plea asks the opposite, that each individual's discoveries be kept to themselves, and even in its wording implies that they would prefer the method of obtaining said secret to remain secret too.
I realise that as someone who found it under my own steam, without realising there was anything to be found, I am in an uncommon position, in that by finding something secret I did not know existed, I felt a sense of achievement. Had I known it was there and not found it, I would likely think differently - like I'm missing out. The suggestion of an "easter egg" by the FBG Twitter perpetuates this feeling of "missing out" for people who play the story as it is meant to be played, by suggesting something extra, fun and perhaps even somewhat meta exists out of their reach. This kind of thing is something that I'm sure most of the community would very much like to see, but this is assuredly not what is hidden in the ES. I expect many people hunting for an "easter egg" will be surprised - perhaps even unpleasantly - by what they find, should they find it.
The "hidden lore" aspect is something I haven't quite formed a stance on. Obviously it is not possible, realistically, for one player to find out all of the deep lore within the game, and this is a positive thing in my eyes. Obviously everyone wants to know as much they can. But in instances where obtaining information requires above-and-beyond thinking or gameplay efforts (not that this is necessarily that much of a puzzle to figure out) I can understand both player and dev reasons for wanting to keep this text secret. In a game that lives and dies by its text, honestly I am fairly surprised that we as a community are allowed to swap, reveal and compare our records as freely as we are.
I personally don't mind the secrecy plea, I don't think, but I do think as a whole its existence was mismanaged. And you're right, the treatment and implementation of these "big secrets" does need to be sparing and justified lest either the community become disgruntled at being effectively "locked out" from content, or, alternately, lest FBG's pleas cease to hold any power and all the justifiably hidden secrets come tumbling out.
(This is just my two cents. Apologies for the slightly garbled nature of this post - I was writing as I thought. I hope it makes sense. I'll come back and edit it if I have the time.)
edited by Barselaar on 8/26/2016
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 The Scorched Sailor, up for most social actions and RP. Not as scary as he looks.
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Cthonius
Posts: 362
8/26/2016
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I wouldn't quote feel like I was missing something if it was just "hey here's an easter egg." But the more discussion that comes from this, and the more people connect it to The Lore TM, the more it nags at the back of my mind. Seeking already nags at my mind as is, mostly because there are three endings and I can't put the work into doing that thrice, but I am fully prepared to and am currently if slowly working towards that. Enigma I am similarly vexed by, but am also working towards and I'm told nearly there. But this, even now having an idea how to accomplish, would require waiting a bit just to pay money to redo this story and likely for little gain. Certainly doesn't seem worth the extra secrecy so far.
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Cthonius, gone North. Gone.
Oneiropompus, a Scarlet Saint, eager to help make your dreams realities. Accepting all social requests for now.
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Televangelist
Posts: 109
8/26/2016
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An Individual wrote:
To those worried about missing out I'd generally say don't worry. The air of mystery around this is far more interesting than the mystery itself.
Unless you're a lore-hound who's got a strong sense of even the more esoteric aspects of the FL universe, in which case IMHO you really, really don't want to miss out on it.
Ian Hart wrote:
If this is interpreted as an abuse of the dev-player relationship (a way to convince people to pay real money to replay the content until they solve the mystery) then I could see it as losing the dev-player trust
Whatever their thought process was, I feel extremely confident it's not that.
edited by Televangelist on 8/26/2016
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Baigan
Posts: 10
8/30/2016
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Shadowcthuhlu wrote:
I'm still stuck on the need for secrecy in this case. It's not like the Mr. Eaten in which it's part of the theme of sacrifice or Engima's puzzle game like aspects. The fact that you can stumble into it and never know it was meant to be a secret - and I doubt what happens is really on the same level as Mr. Eaten's conclusion.
It's funny you mention this because I didn't really care about this whole "paths not taken" business until I came to the forums and found out I'd missed something. But it's gotten me thinking about how this kind of "forks in the road" approach is going to have several possible reactions:
1. Anxiety in those who like to see the unseen. Discouraging, if you want to complete the mantlepieces, know what isn't supposed to be known, etc.
(I am here.) 2. Meh. It's cool. I didn't choose that fork in the road (as others said). Don't bother none.
3. There's major lore hidden behind unprompted stuff! "Man, that sucks that I had no idea!" Casual players who don't know what to look for or don't invest as much as the lore gods and long-haulers do will simply drift by. Some may feel roughly used that they have to pay to "un-miss" something they didn't know was there!
Choices promote anxiety and that's a key element of the game itself we're all playing. Choices cause suffering by forcing a deliberate "I will lose the chance to do this." Fallen London even prompts a lot: "Don't leave until you've asked all the questions you want." "Don't leave unless you've eaten all the prunes you like from this parlor."
People want to make choices and fully enjoy the game they're playing, but some choices in Fallen London are IMPOSSIBLE to enjoy all aspects of unless you really like alts. Even then... the whole "Seeking" thing is a club of a kind. It's got a cult following because it IS a cult thing. You don't share what happens when you join its inner circles. You don't talk about fight club. Er. Lore club. It's not about solving a puzzle - it's about making the value of the choices amazing and mystical, which I think is largely trying to preserve the power of the storytelling device.
But this is me reading into writers who are a lot better than I am. The above is written in my voice and solely my own thoughts - any words put into mouths are solely my own words and have a habit of wandering.
ULTRA EDIT: oh, and yes. 150% agreed about "don't tell what happens here" being dangerously depleted if overused. Hard to solve it when you're embarking on weaving Mr. Eaten choices and massive lore branches into hidden parts of content in a text-based clickerino game and people's access to events/stories is asynchronous.
Yrs.,
-b
edited by Baigan on 8/30/2016
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It's a complex flavour. Something like regret - but less assertive, perhaps?
Please say hello to me and send a calling card. I'll do whatever I can - excepting annoying cats and photographer nonsense. I am a Correspondent for all your needs.
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Televangelist
Posts: 109
8/27/2016
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It seems to me like the proper course here would have been no announcement of an easter egg, and also no prohibition on sharing.
When someone discovered it and mentioned it here, it would have been pretty hype! The pre-announcement of the easter egg, combined with no sharing of its content, simply wasn't the best way to handle this.
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MrBurnside
Posts: 188
8/30/2016
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Ian Hart wrote:
I will say, having now done both with and without Easter Egg, that both are very different stories and you are absolutely "missing" some significant content either way. For those of you who missed it (or those of you who did it), you should at least think of it as a road not taken, rather than an opportunity missed.
Well... that's incredibly frustrating. When I saw that there was an "Easter Egg" I assumed it was going to be a Bowie reference or something. I guessed (apparently correctly) how to find it, but didn't think an "Easter Egg" would be worth the investment. The term itself means that its a trivial extra.
If it's something relevant and important then having it 'locked and beyond sharing is infuriating. I don't want to ask what the text was because, as a rule, I value FBGs boundaries on these things. In this case those boundaries appear misplaced.
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
8/27/2016
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Requests for secrecy don't work well IMO in situations like this, where you may only choose one option, but only one is secret. It somewhat forces people who want to know everything into doing the secret option, even if against their character or usual playstyle. It's especially a problem here where you can't just do both on two different characters without paying twice.
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Televangelist
Posts: 109
8/26/2016
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The thing that bothers me the most is -- I know I've witnessed something with profound lore implications, but I'm not well versed enough to figure out what, exactly, I've witnessed. And now I can't discuss it with anyone.
edited by Televangelist on 8/26/2016
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An Individual
Posts: 589
8/26/2016
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Robin Alexander wrote:
Televangelist wrote:
The thing that bothers me the most is -- I know I've witnessed something with profound lore implications, but I'm not well versed enough to figure out what, exactly, I've witnessed. And now I can't discuss it with anyone.
edited by Televangelist on 8/26/2016
Did you echo it?
If it's in your journal, maybe someone else can read it and then discuss it with you by PM?
I don't think that'd be breaking rules, as far as I can tell.
I generally think that echoing isn't in the spirit of the request, I certainly wouldn't echo anything past the gate in SMEN, but we are all on our own honor and interpretation here. That said, I think discussion with other people who've seen the content through PM is fair game.
To those worried about missing out I'd generally say don't worry. The air of mystery around this is far more interesting than the mystery itself.
One other thing that's just kind of general interest is that we, as a community, seem to have decided not to talk about how to reach the content. But the request as worded only asks that you don't reveal what happens after you've found it. This would suggest that the how is only a secret because we've decided it should be a secret.
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An Individual's Profile
The RNG giveth and the RNG taketh away.
Goat Farming or Cider Brewing? This browser extension may help.
Want a Cider sip? Please refer to this guide before requesting.
Scholaring the Correspondence? A Brief Guide to Courier's Footprint.
Contemplating Oblivion? First Steps on the Seeking Road.
Gone NORTH? Opened the gate? Throw your character in a well.
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
8/26/2016
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Barselaar wrote:
I would say that the wording of the secrecy request - "as is true of what you have already done here" - suggests a desire to keep the method to the content secret as well, but you're right, it's definitely not as forceful and seems to have arisen in large part from the community.
I interpreted that differently: "whether you keep it secret is on your conscience, and so is what you've already done [in the story]."
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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ochrasy
Posts: 169
8/27/2016
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I have not yet started this month's story, and, if someone is willing, could someone sendo me a PM with pointers to how to not miss it?
I mean, if anyone doesn't think it goes against the secrecy of it all.
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Ochrasy. Monster-Hunter. Dangerous and Watchful, favors the Constables.
Robitaille. Persuasive and Shadowy, fond of the Devils.
Herr Horst. Seeker of Revenge.
Open to all social actions on all accounts. Preferably, send any MW-providing actions to Ochrasy.
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Cthonius
Posts: 362
8/27/2016
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There are hints in the first...5 or 6 pages of the Story's own thread. For now the secrecy is being kept I believe. Even still, please let us try to keep this thread from becoming merely a place to request pms of it.
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Cthonius, gone North. Gone.
Oneiropompus, a Scarlet Saint, eager to help make your dreams realities. Accepting all social requests for now.
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Shadowcthuhlu
Posts: 1557
8/30/2016
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I'm still stuck on the need for secrecy in this case. It's not like the Mr. Eaten in which it's part of the theme of sacrifice or Engima's puzzle game like aspects. The fact that you can stumble into it and never know it was meant to be a secret - and I doubt what happens is really on the same level as Mr. Eaten's conclusion.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Dirae%20Erinyes. Closed to calling cards, but open for all other social action. I also love to roleplay.
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hwoosh
Posts: 104
8/31/2016
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I'll go even further and say that I'm philosophically opposed to the notion of keeping any published content secret, even Enigma.
I'm not saying Alexis and the writers of the Exceptional Story "easter egg" don't have the right to request people not share certain content, but I don't think anyone is under any ethical obligation to comply. Indeed, I think the cataloguing and neat organization of information that was formerly secret, mysterious, imperfectly known, in places like game wikis is one of the great forces for good in human civilization, and can never fail to make the world a better place, ceteris paribus.
If the Eleusinian Mysteries—the most sacred, fiercely kept secret of the ancient world—were still practiced today, in the age of wikis, you can bet your bottom I would document them comprehensively and put them up on a wiki. In conscientious spoiler tags, of course. And I'd rest happy on my laurels, knowing I'd done a public service.
As someone who figured out Enigma on my own, I would gladly hand out gentle hints via PM to those who wanted gentle hints, and would not stint to provide complete solutions via PM to those who wanted complete solutions. I don't plan on ever posting the solutions publicly, but mostly because of the immense social pressure from the FL community at large. After all, I love the game, admire Alexis's creative vision, and don't want to incur bad feelings from this small, cozy group of people who share that love and admiration.
(Let me note that I've always found this sentence on the wiki—"take it as a sign, and accept that some storylines are not for you"—intolerably smug and condescending. Nobody is more or less worthy of reading any storyline than anyone else, any more than some pieces of published writing (as opposed to, say, a private diary—an important distinction) are more entitled to be kept secret than others.)
Haven't decided whether I'll echo the Exceptional Story's "easter egg" or the end of SMEN, once I get to them.... probably not, again because of the social pressure. But I do make sure to take screenshots of every stage of "secret" content I play through and keep a backup for myself. That way, I at least know that the content exists in some stable form outside of FBG's servers, and can be easily accessed for reference—and shared privately with those who want to be spoiled.
(Edits only for minor formatting and to add this notice.)
edited by hwoosh on 8/31/2016
edited by hwoosh on 8/31/2016
edited by hwoosh on 8/31/2016
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R Fellow Oswho. Don't ask what the "R." stands for. The poor fellow is sensitive about it. And violent.
Most social requests gladly and promptly answered.
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Ian Hart
Posts: 437
8/30/2016
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I will say, having now done both with and without Easter Egg, that both are very different stories and you are absolutely "missing" some significant content either way. For those of you who missed it (or those of you who did it), you should at least think of it as a road not taken, rather than an opportunity missed.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Antifinity
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PJ
Posts: 210
8/27/2016
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Televangelist wrote:
An Individual wrote:
To those worried about missing out I'd generally say don't worry. The air of mystery around this is far more interesting than the mystery itself.
Unless you're a lore-hound who's got a strong sense of even the more esoteric aspects of the FL universe, in which case IMHO you really, really don't want to miss out on it.
Well I wish someone had told me that before I finished this month's story. Honestly, if they're going to discourage us from comparing notes, they need to at least tell us what kind of thing we should be looking for.
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