absimiliard
Posts: 759
7/29/2016
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PJ wrote:
And perhaps more importantly, how close are they to completing the Device? The light in Ladybones Road briefly went out. Was that a malfunction, or a test?
It is worth noting that there is the Unclear Device in Sunless Sea which removes all illumination from both your own ship and your target. It is also in-game being tested in London during the Captain's playthrough. So the Liberation has been poking at this for a bit.
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"Because, Parabola!" -- the Curious Captain
Eating nightmares from friends -- and I'm easy to befriend.
Absimiliard: the Black Rose of Wolfstack Docks
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
7/29/2016
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While I'd be very surprised if the Contrarian turned out to be part of the Calendar Council despite being directly opposed to their end goal, I'd be even more surprised if random other characters without previous Revolutionary association were suddenly revealed to be on the Council as well. For example, why on earth would the Manager be secretly a Revolutionary? He made a deal with the Bazaar, is still somewhat affiliated with it, and the Liberation would his beloved who he very clearly still cares about deeply.
suinicide wrote:
And what was with the mini dawn machine? Is that to test if they can extinguish it? To study how it worked? Is that thing sentient as well?
What mini Dawn Machine? Do you mean the diagrams of how it works?
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
7/29/2016
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suinicide wrote:
And what was with the mini dawn machine? Is that to test if they can extinguish it? To study how it worked? Is that thing sentient as well?
What mini Dawn Machine? Do you mean the diagrams of how it works?
Oops, read the part about cogs and assumed it was an actual machine. A diagram raises less questions.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Angus Turner
Posts: 72
7/29/2016
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Saying that the Contrarian is directly opposed to the Calendar's end goal is overstating it, I think. His remark on the matter was "the light need not necessarily go out". Doesn't really sound like someone whose position on the Liberation is ironclad - I would imagine the other members of the council think he'll come around, eventually. February more or less said that, when she interfered in his campaign.
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The Philanthropic Scholar.
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
7/29/2016
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"Take heart, friend. The light has not yet gone out. This is not the end." That seems pretty clear to me: have hope, because it isn't extinguished.
"The light need not necessarily go out" reads to me like giving an unpopular suggestion to those in charge - doing so gently so they don't get too angry.
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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SarahTheEntwife
Posts: 50
7/29/2016
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Ah, having played Sunless Sea I know what that diagram is! Mmmm, creepy machines.
Edit: Also, as a librarian in the Surface world I'm particularly tickled with this storyline. It's making the project I'm starting feel so much more mysterious and adventurous. It involves looking at the collection and going "wait, what *is* this? why do we have it? and why does the catalog think it's something else entirely?" and it's much more interesting if my brain thinks it's possibly some grand eldritch plan instead of just that we've never formally analyzed this collection before. Especially since it's the government documents we're looking at. Protip: the US government publishes some really weird stuff.
edited by SarahTheEntwife on 7/29/2016
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Strel Retired zee-captain turned scholar. Open to social interactions of various sorts.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Winona~Tintenfisch Winona Tintenfisch, aspiring street urchin. Would definitely be up for some fisticuffs or loitering.
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Hark DeGaul
Posts: 208
7/29/2016
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I wonder if the implications of this story have some bearing on Mr Eaten's Name.
[spoiler]The work appears to suggest that the Masters hate the Second City because the Duchess betrayed them by concocting a love story. I theorise that the reason the Third City took so long to fall is because, just as the Fourth City was brought down in a bargain borne out of love and was ended when London was sold out of a similar love, the Second City required a betrayal of roughly equal magnitude to end it. If this was true the betrayal of Mr Eaten isn't just the removal of a rival Master (after all wouldn't Stones and Fires or Wines and Spices also itching to get rid of each other) but a required step to lower the Third City.[/spoiler]
There's little evidence for this, granted, but I feel the idea has enough elegance to be the sort of thing Failbetter would do.
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The Dreaded Relative: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Your%20Aunt
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
7/29/2016
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Hark DeGaul wrote:
I wonder if the implications of this story have some bearing on Mr Eaten's Name.
spoiler
I don't think this story has any relevance to SMEN beyond what we already knew regarding the topic.
[spoiler]I think the Duchess pretty clearly didn't fabricate a love story, as indicated by her letter following giving the papyrus to the cat. Love was clearly involved and a motivating factor for all. The Duchess betrayed the Masters and the Bazaar not by giving them a false story, but a false city. They want important cities, the capitals of empires, but the Second City was not such a city. Amarna was the capital of Egypt at the time, but a brand new one built by a mad king whose theological revisions were overturned immediately upon his death. The city lacked history, and its citizens did not love it. The Bazaar got a capital in name, but it was already dead.
It's not clear exactly why the Bazaar stuck around in the Second City for two millenia. The Duchess and her sisters clearly knew of the Bazaar's plan and deliberately interfered, so presumably the delay was their creation also. Mr Eaten was betrayed to end the Second City, but only in that he was betrayed to buy the Third City, for that was the God-Eaters' price. The Masters betrayed him for additional reasons: he was not angry at the Duchess or her betrayal, and in fact seemingly sympathetic; and he had some manner of lesser nature for which he knew betrayal was inevitable.[/spoiler]
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Lamia Lawless
Posts: 604
7/29/2016
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I suspect that this story might be setting the foundation for revealing new characters. Some of the hints might refer to pre-existing characters like February and April, but I think there's always a possibility that there are other Council members that haven't been revealed or even hinted at before now. I mean, I'm pretty sure July wasn't mentioned anywhere in the text until her Exceptional Story came out. Am I wrong?
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The Harmonic Hellfarer
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Fadewalker
Posts: 136
7/29/2016
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Lamia Lawless wrote:
I suspect that this story might be setting the foundation for revealing new characters. Some of the hints might refer to pre-existing characters like February and April, but I think there's always a possibility that there are other Council members that haven't been revealed or even hinted at before now. I mean, I'm pretty sure July wasn't mentioned anywhere in the text until her Exceptional Story came out. Am I wrong?
Can't agree more. The library is an informative trailer or outline, I suppose. But it is interesting to exhaust all possibilities within the existing content.
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A fervent supporter of the Council and the Masters.
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Cthonius
Posts: 362
7/29/2016
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That still makes Amarna pretty important I'd say.
That aside I noticed something that stood out after seeing some theories and speculation on this thread, an echo from failing on the Room at the Royal Bethlehem lodging card: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/cthonius?fromEchoId=9215279
Compare the book about nightmares people are theorizing belongs to the Manager: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/cthonius?fromEchoId=9201937
Not ironclad or anything, but factoring in the election stuff as well it does paint a picture, however blurry, of the Manager as a member of the Calender Council.
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Cthonius, gone North. Gone.
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
7/29/2016
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Cthonius wrote:
That still makes Amarna pretty important I'd say.
Oh, definitely. I just meant this story didn't seem to change our knowledge of its role in the history.
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Pnakotic
Posts: 266
7/29/2016
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PJ wrote:
This is all well and good, but why was the papyrus in the possession of the Calendar Council?
And perhaps more importantly, how close are they to completing the Device? The light in Ladybones Road briefly went out. Was that a malfunction, or a test?
[spoiler]The diagram in the Spring room seems to suggest that some localized experiments are underway. Or at least that some equipment to facilitate the Liberation has been strategically arranged throughout parts of London.
[/spoiler]
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J. Ward Dunn, Glassman
Book of All Hours 9:99: Journey's end in lover's meeting. Progress is ascendancy.
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Angus Turner
Posts: 72
7/30/2016
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Optimatum wrote:
"Take heart, friend. The light has not yet gone out. This is not the end." That seems pretty clear to me: have hope, because it isn't extinguished.
"The light need not necessarily go out" reads to me like giving an unpopular suggestion to those in charge - doing so gently so they don't get too angry.
The Contrarian might consider the Liberation a last resort. He doesn't want things to come to it, but if that's what happens, he will support it. Or maybe that's not actually what he thinks, but he managed to convince the Council otherwise. There is at least one Council member we know of that strayed too far from the party line and paid the price, so dissent in the ranks isn't unheard of.
I admit that's not the first thing that comes to mind from reading that text, but it isn't an implausible reading. And with the Calendar Council's massive involvement in his campaign and the book that so perfectly matches his personality, I think it's a safe bet that he is in fact August.
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The Philanthropic Scholar.
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Pnakotic
Posts: 266
7/30/2016
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Optimatum wrote:
While I'd be very surprised if the Contrarian turned out to be part of the Calendar Council despite being directly opposed to their end goal, I'd be even more surprised if random other characters without previous Revolutionary association were suddenly revealed to be on the Council as well. For example, why on earth would the Manager be secretly a Revolutionary? He made a deal with the Bazaar, is still somewhat affiliated with it, and the Liberation would his beloved who he very clearly still cares about deeply.
This would also be assuming that the Calendar Council is fully unified and do have any ideological differences. All evidence, including past assassinations, seems to indicate there are divisions within their ranks, and that they do intrigue against one another at times.
Really, it seems like they might almost be a mirror of the Masters. A dozen mysterious, eccentric and very dangerous individuals ostensibly devoted to the support of a common cause, but largely engaged in pursuing their own devices and intrigues.
Except not space bats.
edited by Pnakotic on 7/30/2016
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J. Ward Dunn, Glassman
Book of All Hours 9:99: Journey's end in lover's meeting. Progress is ascendancy.
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
7/30/2016
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There are definitely divisions within the Calendar Council, and from an in-game point of view it's entirely possible for the Contrarian to be one of them. I just doubt from a metagaming level that, after all this time, an established character would be suddenly revealed to be part of an established mysterious group without hints in the meantime. If it were to occur the Contrarian or another Revolutionary-affiliated character would be most likely.
Also, doesn't he do something against the Calendar Council in the Affluent Photographer's storyline? Helping him does end with him giving you a Neddy Suit, after all. Doesn't seem like something a hardcore revolutionary would want to be associated with.
Pnakotic wrote:
Really, it seems like they might almost be a mirror of the Masters. A dozen mysterious, eccentric and very dangerous individuals ostensibly devoted to the support of a common cause, but largely engaged in pursuing their own devices and intrigues.
Month Twelve, they say, was wounded in the thigh. He was robbed of what will be.
I guess that would make December the first month in this counting scheme, isn't November the blank book?
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Professor Strix
Posts: 616
7/30/2016
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The Contrarian is the guy that gives you a job to make you Closest To the Revolutionaries and he was backed by revolutionaries in his campaign. I think this is enough hinting that he might be close to them.
The fact that he was arguing against revolution to annoy the Affluent Photographer only proves that he is, well, a contrarian. He IS the guy who likes to argue for any side, just for the sake of arguing.
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The Inescapable Professor, London's Most Academic Detective. Open to consultation from Mondays to Fridays, above the Silver Binding bookshop, Veilgarden. Half the payment in advance, half after closing the case. No refunds.
"THIS SATURDAY, in MAHOGANY HALL, delight your eyes with the DARING FEATS of the DAPPER ESCAPIST. Gape at his CHARM and WIT and his CLEVER TRICKS OF ILLUSIONISM. No mirrors used."
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Lord Vaustus
Posts: 201
7/30/2016
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Is dear Dr. Freud (schlomo) a potential member? The stuff about the confessions, plus he's from Vienna?
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Lord~Ivastus
The heartbroken hedonist
Pronounced "Lord vow-Stis".
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Pnakotic
Posts: 266
7/30/2016
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Professor Strix wrote:
The Contrarian is the guy that gives you a job to make you Closest To the Revolutionaries and he was backed by revolutionaries in his campaign. I think this is enough hinting that he might be close to them.
The fact that he was arguing against revolution to annoy the Affluent Photographer only proves that he is, well, a contrarian. He IS the guy who likes to argue for any side, just for the sake of arguing.
It's likely he advocates the use of more subtle methods than brick-throwing and assassination.
He certainly doesn't suggest the Photographer is wrong in her sentiments ( he questions why you should support the Masters and the upper classes), but doesn't approve her methods. In fact, he explicitly states that violent revolutions have never served to improve the lot of the poor, and that London would be left vulnerable without the Masters.
Likewise, on the Connected card, he mentions the need for people of sound reputation, not just more violent agitators.
And with the book discussing the merits and methods of twisting public opinion through argument, everything seems to point to the Contrarian, somewhat like Proudhon, being a strong advocate of change through non-violent and rational reform, not the tyranny of violent action. February is nearly the complete opposite, ruthlessly violent, autocratic, and nihilistically devoted to winning at any cost - without any apparent concern for collateral damage or long-term consequence.
[spoiler]In retrospect, the Contrarian's intimate familiarity with the Calendar Council is revealed in the Affluent Photographer story through his very direct criticism of specific members like March (revealed in the library to either be mad or feign it), April (obsessed with artillery and explosives), and September (if the pattern matches, obsessed with decrypting the obsequious verbal meanderings of Mr. Pages) which seems to be very clear evidence of his direct involvement with the Council. As the Photographer's goals of inciting a violent uprising conflict with his long-term goals, he acts to undermine her via a proxy. Subtle, but ruthless.[/spoiler]
edited by Pnakotic on 7/30/2016
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J. Ward Dunn, Glassman
Book of All Hours 9:99: Journey's end in lover's meeting. Progress is ascendancy.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
7/30/2016
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Anne Auclair wrote:
Perhaps...[/spoiler]
Or, alternatively...
[spoiler]1. They are studying it to learn more about the Judgments.
2. They need to capture it or kill it.[/spoiler]
edited by Anne Auclair on 7/30/2016
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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