Infinity Simulacrum wrote:

I like most of it, but using Comprehensive Bribes as, well, bribing materials would greatly inconvenience newer pre-PoSI players, because the materials required for it aren't exactly cheap

I don't think there's anything we can do about this. Newer players will always be at a material and stat disadvantage. For example, the campaign resource card offers election supplies for a price that an experienced POSI would find trivial but a newer character daunting.

As for newer players not having access to the Bazaar Side Streets, and hence unable to make comprehensive bribes and use of villains, that could be easily remedied by a seasonable option allowing the construction of comprehensive bribes/villains outside the Bazaar Side Streets.
edited by Anne Auclair on 7/19/2016

Grenem wrote:

I'd have liked a third lore route somewhere, which revealed something positive or mostly positive about each candidate, and always did. How they're implementing their plans, policy changes for the better, actions they've taken during the election.

Say, that sinning jenny bribed the urchins with a large amount of food each- hundreds or thousands of echoes worth- to make peace for the duration of the election. That was her only terms for enough food to feed all the urchin colonies for a month.

The Bishop has been buying souls in the bazaar, and donating them to the shepherds for return to their rightful owners. [whether for years, or a shorter span of time.]

Stuff like that. No intruiges, no hidden underdepths, just a good deed from each candidate, and how they've done it.

Not a bad idea, but the road to hell is paved with good intention (pun intended). The Bishop financing the Soul Trade might drive off his core supporters instead.

Here's an idea, a new social activity for people who take the Campaigner career: pamphleting.

Election pamphlets will sort of be like Christmas cards. If you are a Campaigner, you can pay whispered hints, appalling secrets and a certain amount of echoes/rustygold/brass/whatever to print and send a certain number of election pamphlets to fellow players each day/week. The cards will contain information about the election. Positive pamphlets will cost whispered hints, boost the candidate by providing positive information and give the receiving player whispered hints. Negative pamphlets will cost appalling secrets, rubbish the opposing candidates and supply the receiving players with appalling secrets.

Naturally, some players might not want to receive tons of election related mail, so there will be two ways of escaping the flood. The first will be to stay at a remote lodging. Remote lodgings are too remote for election related soliciting. The second choice, if you don't have a remote lodging or prefer your city residence, is to pay a few echoes to buy a Ferocious Polythreme Letterbox at Mr Mirror's Election Market. Specially trained to savage all but the postman's hands, it will take a bite out of unwelcome soliciting. Literally :P
edited by Anne Auclair on 7/21/2016

I do think the next election could be very interesting if some of the groups within London pledged their support to candidates for example: the tomb colonists, the rubbery men, the Brass Embassy, and so on and so forth.

Grenem wrote:

Anne Auclair wrote:

So I now have a newspaper, which I didn't have when the election happened. Could someone tell me what the election newspaper mechanics were? Not having a paper I didn't pay much attention to them. Newspapers are rich with future possibilities.

You needed to write a paper. this is relatively, inherently, unprofitable. Specifically, you need a relatively low number of scandalous and meritous copy- 24 of each. in return, you get ~52 echoes in items and a public attention.

If you can use wiki, wiki-link: http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Publish_a_special_Election_edition_for_Public_Attention

So was the same process as a normal paper, only with a special election option?

How about "Fewer really angry forum rants," is that a feature?

I enjoyed the festival itself fine, but trying to watch the forums for stuff like text changes was an exercise in irritation and depression. Every thread mentioning it turned hostile and ranty immediately. It was utterly not fun.

Grenem wrote:

Pnakotic wrote:

Tbh, I like the election a lot more the way it is currently than turning it into a cash-cow event financially encouraging players to just skunk the whole process.

I do agree that Agitators would benefit from some more "dangerous" choices for their career path. But unfortunately the only real Dangerous grinds are things like Dueling the Black Ribbon or hunting dangerous game, neither of which play well for this purposes (and are mechanically identical to the Big Score for Shadowy). Compare with Investigations (Watchful), Writing (Persuasive), Flash Lays (Shadowy and Persuasive), and Heists (Shadowy). Maybe adding some more hard-boiled options to investigations to allow players to break some heads to get information would help... but I think it points out a lack of satisfying Dangerous content compared to the other attribute-linked pursuits.

I also think the turn-in value for short stories needs to be evaluated, as the action and item cost compared to doing made it a very unattractive choice compared to doing Flash Lays (which were themselves considerably more action-intensive than the investigation option, though the overall benefits made them worthwhile).

edited by Pnakotic on 7/19/2016

TBH, that's what my angry diatribe on the forums was- I want voting to be as viable as scrapping the materials for echoes, so that voting isn't commiting to spend [effectively, compared to 380 echoes from cash-ins] 215 echoes for a lv.20 vote.

Aren't the investigations non-viable for gathering votes? i mean, they only provide one type of material. unless you're getting the public attention from parties (20 echoes less payout for what looks like the same value) or from newspapers (break-even [well, 9.4 echoes profit if you got it from docks and didn't get the alt failure, -0.6 echoes if you got it from the bazaar] with 1 attention for 13 actions, plus the action to get to spite- each time, unless you're doing a mass batch.), you still need to do something else for actual votes. I mean, if you're after echoes, they are probably the best option, but they only provide one type of material.
edited by Grenem on 7/19/2016

Ultimately, you could progress any career with minimal expenditures (beyond the opportunity cost of actions) just by using Flash Lays and Investigations. I didn't consider parties for public attention. Overall I managed 20 levels plus grinding notability from level 6 to 10 in two weeks without expending anything more expensive than the few Tales of Terror I invested in writing tow stories before deciding they weren't worth the investment of items and actions for either campaign material or making waves. I didn't have many actions left over for other pursuits, but I can sacrifice that for two weeks of exploring new content. Would I necessarily want to again in future for minimal rewards? Hard to say. I'd certainly head in with higher Notability if possible, which would make everything else that much easier.

~snip~

Not everyone values echoes and actions the same way. Anyway, we're all getting off topic. Features, this thread is about future features :P

Estelle Knoht wrote:

Comprehensive Bribes sound nice, except it is far too easy to exploit - just pick a side you don't want, collaborate with each other and send each other bribe once. Just like that, you and your friend each converted one bribe to several hundred echoes, and on a side you choose.

An overly complicated bribery mechanic might be too distracting from the election proper.

Huh, hadn't thought about that. Yeah, that would be a problem. I suppose one way of dealing with it would be to make the costs of sending the bribe far outweigh the profit one would make from getting a bribe. So the only way to make a profit would be to receive bribes, not send them. Two players who sent bribes to each other would then be worse off than two players who had done nothing.

Though I think it would have to be way more than one comprehensive bribe. Bribes can be sold on the Bazaar for 12 echoes, so to get 100 echoes worth you'd have to send ten of the things. There could be other costs as well, like use of villains. The more expensive the better.

Is there a reason why cynics can't claim a more lucrative election reward from the ministry or something similar? A mercenary version of the careers where rather than trying to support a candidate, they try to air as much dirty laundry and unpleasant truths as possible? I mean, the careers are a pretty big part of election gameplay, cutting them away stinks- but i don't know, maybe it's fine.

Turncoat seems punishing- it might be worth it, but it's really hard to cure in normal gameplay- you'd need either a seasonal cure, or for the bribed party to be willing and able to sacrifice either revolution or masters connection. The options are semi-trivial, actually, but it's impossible to cure pre-box. [and to make matters worse, there are other ways to get turncoat. in normal gameplay, the box is the only thing affected, so a wise/unwise player can gather lots of it using criminal favors on betrayals.]

I would suggest making a new quality for bribes instead, since turncoat doesn't fit right.

Tbh, I like the election a lot more the way it is currently than turning it into a cash-cow event financially encouraging players to just skunk the whole process.

I do agree that Agitators would benefit from some more "dangerous" choices for their career path. But unfortunately the only real Dangerous grinds are things like Dueling the Black Ribbon or hunting dangerous game, neither of which play well for this purposes (and are mechanically identical to the Big Score for Shadowy). Compare with Investigations (Watchful), Writing (Persuasive), Flash Lays (Shadowy and Persuasive), and Heists (Shadowy). Maybe adding some more hard-boiled options to investigations to allow players to break some heads to get information would help... but I think it points out a lack of satisfying Dangerous content compared to the other attribute-linked pursuits.

I also think the turn-in value for short stories needs to be evaluated, as the action and item cost compared to doing made it a very unattractive choice compared to doing Flash Lays (which were themselves considerably more action-intensive than the investigation option, though the overall benefits made them worthwhile).

edited by Pnakotic on 7/19/2016

Pnakotic wrote:

Grenem wrote:

Pnakotic wrote:

Tbh, I like the election a lot more the way it is currently than turning it into a cash-cow event financially encouraging players to just skunk the whole process.

I do agree that Agitators would benefit from some more "dangerous" choices for their career path. But unfortunately the only real Dangerous grinds are things like Dueling the Black Ribbon or hunting dangerous game, neither of which play well for this purposes (and are mechanically identical to the Big Score for Shadowy). Compare with Investigations (Watchful), Writing (Persuasive), Flash Lays (Shadowy and Persuasive), and Heists (Shadowy). Maybe adding some more hard-boiled options to investigations to allow players to break some heads to get information would help... but I think it points out a lack of satisfying Dangerous content compared to the other attribute-linked pursuits.

I also think the turn-in value for short stories needs to be evaluated, as the action and item cost compared to doing made it a very unattractive choice compared to doing Flash Lays (which were themselves considerably more action-intensive than the investigation option, though the overall benefits made them worthwhile).

edited by Pnakotic on 7/19/2016

TBH, that's what my angry diatribe on the forums was- I want voting to be as viable as scrapping the materials for echoes, so that voting isn't commiting to spend [effectively, compared to 380 echoes from cash-ins] 215 echoes for a lv.20 vote.

Aren't the investigations non-viable for gathering votes? i mean, they only provide one type of material. unless you're getting the public attention from parties (20 echoes less payout for what looks like the same value) or from newspapers (break-even [well, 9.4 echoes profit if you got it from docks and didn't get the alt failure, -0.6 echoes if you got it from the bazaar] with 1 attention for 13 actions, plus the action to get to spite- each time, unless you're doing a mass batch.), you still need to do something else for actual votes. I mean, if you're after echoes, they are probably the best option, but they only provide one type of material.
edited by Grenem on 7/19/2016

Ultimately, you could progress any career with minimal expenditures (beyond the opportunity cost of actions) just by using Flash Lays and Investigations. I didn't consider parties for public attention. Overall I managed 20 levels plus grinding notability from level 6 to 10 in two weeks without expending anything more expensive than the few Tales of Terror I invested in writing tow stories before deciding they weren't worth the investment of items and actions for either campaign material or making waves. I didn't have many actions left over for other pursuits, but I can sacrifice that for two weeks of exploring new content. Would I necessarily want to again in future for minimal rewards? Hard to say. I'd certainly head in with higher Notability if possible, which would make everything else that much easier.

You're right, but i meant the comparative payouts. 38 election materials -> 380 echoes, vs. 20 election levels -> 165 echoes. total difference: 215 echoes, or ~11 echoes a vote. It's fine if they want sitting it out to be the most profitable, but assuming you don't want the worst-off campaign to be bleeding voters, i'd rather campaigning against a near-unstoppable tide wasn't analogous to throwing items down a well. The only other way to ensure that is to ensure the candidates are more balanced in popularity before-hand with, say, a pre-vote on which candidates to use, so that we don't have another jenny, or the new one is at least less crushingly popular.

Personal preference, feel free to ignore.

edited by Grenem on 7/19/2016

Anne Auclair wrote:

Grenem wrote:

Anne Auclair wrote:

So I now have a newspaper, which I didn't have when the election happened. Could someone tell me what the election newspaper mechanics were? Not having a paper I didn't pay much attention to them. Newspapers are rich with future possibilities.

You needed to write a paper. this is relatively, inherently, unprofitable. Specifically, you need a relatively low number of scandalous and meritous copy- 24 of each. in return, you get ~52 echoes in items and a public attention.

If you can use wiki, wiki-link: http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Publish_a_special_Election_edition_for_Public_Attention

So was the same process as a normal paper, only with a special election option?

yes.

Vavakx Nonexus wrote:

I have already made my suggestion, that being a less linear bribe scaling, with 1-votes being buyable purely through election material (so that newbie fixers get to have a bit of fun as well), and the higher-votes getting the actual bribes from PoSIs.

I've given this some thought and I think a scale system would be too complicated and not worth the effort. Failbetter can only do so much coding so the simpler the system, the better. And how many players will really take the early bribes? Why settle for a small payment when a little effort and patience can get you a big payout?

I think a simple, one size fits all Election Bribe mechanic is the best way to go.

Here’s how I imagine it. A bribe can only be sent to someone with ten or more campaign career levels, as bribes aren't for nobodies and it’s not just to convince the player's character but also some of his voters. When you accept a bribe you lose half your campaign career, as if you switched normally (this to stop the mechanic from being abused by players who want to switch without losing campaign career). The bribe is roughly 200 to 300 echoes worth of comprehensive bribes, rustygold, brass, jade, glim, amber, moon pearls, greyfields, a bottle of broken giant, and a use of villains (the alcohol and villains are the tools of negotiation and delivery, respectively). The player accepting the bribe only gets a certain percentage of the bribe’s original value (50%? 75%?). Accepting a bribe earns you a special quality, which can lead to problems if you accept further bribes or betray your word.

Here’s how a straightforward case would go. Say Player 1 has a campaign career of 20 + 5 Notability and he is supporting Candidate A. Player 2 is supporting Candidate B and sends Player 1 a bribe to switch to supporting Candidate A. Player 2 accepts the bribe, and so he switches, going from 20 to 10 campaign career. Even if Player 1 shrugs off future campaigning and focuses on profiting off the election resources, Candidate B has gained 15 votes, while Candidate B has lost 25. If this is done enough it could tip an election.

I also think you should be able to bribe someone who is already supporting your candidate to make sure they do not accept a bribe to switch sides. So Player 1 and Player 2 are supporting Candidate A. But Player 1 is interested in a bribe. So stop Player 1 from switching to Candidate B or Candidate C, Player 2 bribes Player 1 to stay with Candidate A.

Furthermore, I think sending out bribes should be limited to Fixers, as it’s exactly the sort of thing they get up to.

Bonus story material: if a majority of competing players accept bribes than the election's overall story could shift to how the election is being tainted by widespread vote buying. If most competing players refuse bribes than the story could be about how unexpectedly clean things are (relatively speaking).

I'd have liked a third lore route somewhere, which revealed something positive or mostly positive about each candidate, and always did. How they're implementing their plans, policy changes for the better, actions they've taken during the election.

Say, that sinning jenny bribed the urchins with a large amount of food each- hundreds or thousands of echoes worth- to make peace for the duration of the election. That was her only terms for enough food to feed all the urchin colonies for a month.

The Bishop has been buying souls in the bazaar, and donating them to the shepherds for return to their rightful owners. [whether for years, or a shorter span of time.]

Stuff like that. No intruiges, no hidden underdepths, just a good deed from each candidate, and how they've done it.

Your burglar husband could steal your rival candidates' plans for you.