An Individual
Posts: 589
6/30/2016
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I was just thinking about alt accounts and the election and realized something. Failbetter's policy on alts is relatively straight forward. From the Terms and Conditions:
Terms & Conditions wrote:
Failbetter Games may suspend the accounts of any users it deems to be engaging in malicious or inappropriate conduct. Such conduct includes but is not limited to:
- use of secondary accounts to harass other players or gain competitive advantage
There are a bunch of other things in that section but that's the one that's relevant. So basically, you can have them but don't be a jerk to other people and the competitive advantage part isn't hard to avoid because FL isn't really a competitive game. There was that one time Knife and Candle had a leader board and not much else (the more recent iteration of K&C could only be defined as competitive in fuzzy terms). That is, until the election.
Pretty much everything you do in Fallen London is isolated to your own little bubble with only the occasional social action crossing the rift between us. But we don't each get to elect our own Mayor here. It's a competition across the whole of the game to see who can get their preferred candidate into office and it would be difficult to argue that someone with multiple accounts doesn't have an advantage here.
Now I think the correct response is to just not worry about it and carry on. Someone would have to be using a truly egregious number of alts to have an impact on the election results. So unless someone is, in fact, doing that it doesn't really matter. But it is worth noting that anyone that has more than one account participating in the election is technically going to end up violating the Terms and Conditions (well, really more like sticking the tip of a toe over the line, but still over it).
In the interest of honesty, I have 2 alt accounts but they're neck deep in Seeking so I plan to keep them out of it.
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An Individual's Profile
The RNG giveth and the RNG taketh away.
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
6/30/2016
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I did think a little bit about this since I do have four accounts, but for me at least it won't matter. Sara will go for the Bishop, Madison will go for the Contrarian, and Gloria will go with Jenny. Depending on the mechanics these three with all cancel each other out, leaving me with one meaningful vote just like everybody else.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
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lady ciel
Posts: 2548
7/2/2016
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I am one person in RL and on the forum but I am not only one person in Fallen London. The other characters I play feel as real to me as Ciel. To be honest she wasn't my first Fallen London character just the one I chose to represent myself on the forum. So I don't even count her as my main as I don't have a main character.
To me all my characters are all valid characters in their own right and it is entirely possible that their votes will cancel each other out. There is also a possibility that not all of them will bother to vote. It is too soon to say, as I will play them in character and it will depend on the election campaign itself before any decisions are made.
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ciel
Sorry RL means I am not a very active player at the moment. No social actions unless you are prepared to wait and definitely no sparring or other mult-action things.
No Calling Cards or boxed cats please. Will take dupes on the affluent photographers. Other social invitations welcome. Parabolan Kittens usually available, send me an in-game social action saying you want one and I will get one to you as soon as possible.
storynexus name - reveurciel
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
7/3/2016
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I think it is more likely what campaigning you does will affect your own bubble, and nobody else.
Or, if it is really a multiplayer thing, the Fate options are probably more "let's get more insight or goodies" and less "you get a bigger vote". It is a very dangerous path to tread, since that's like pitting players wallets against each other.
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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Lady Taimi Felix
Posts: 202
6/30/2016
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Also, while it it true at least in the realm of the hypothetical that one could abuse the system and ballot-stuff for their own choice, none of us are privy to what, exactly, each candidate will then provide for their constituents once elected. For all we know, Sinning Jenny may outlaw scarlet stockings entirely and institute a porridge only breakfast ration. (Heaven forfend both of those vile and purely theoretical acts!)
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Lady Taimi Felix: Devoted Wife. Invisible Eminence. Patron of the Shadowy Arts. Monster Hunter. Lady of Adventure. Exceptionally Lethal. Loves a Good Chat over Coffee.
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MrBurnside
Posts: 188
6/30/2016
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I have no idea who I (main or alts) will vote for, but it doesn't seem like very much of a problem if they are being roleplayed according to their characterizations.
This thread has been full of discussions about competitive advantage, but there needs to be a goal/benefit/resource in order for there to be meaningful competition.
Jeremy Saklad wrote:
I think everyone should just on the honor system to not vote with alts, unless you have three alts cancelling each other out.
This presumes that there is advantage to being on the winning side, but in Fallen London the players win either way and don't win more for reading the same text more times. There is story to be read and silly roleplaying on the forums and twitter/facebook/etc, there is no win and no lose.
I can see people being upset at mass ballot stuffing (because it dilutes their ability to meaningfully impact events), but unless people are coordinating many, many alts, I can't see it making much of a difference.
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lady ciel
Posts: 2548
7/2/2016
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Anne Auclair wrote:
Wouldn't the designers have taken Alts into consideration when they designed the voting system in the first place? Alts might matter less then players willing to pay Fate.
Where does the idea that alts might matter less than having one character or that people who have alts might not be spending RL money on them.
I don't think using Fate (unless there is a Fate-locked option during the election) or Exceptional Friendship should make a difference. There are many people who play only one character without spending RL money and people who pay for all their characters. It all depends on personal circumstances and how much money anyone is willing (or can afford) to spend on Fallen London.
My alts are separate characters, all of the established ones have EF and have unlocked different Fate-locked stories. They follow different paths, have different ideas. Of course there is some of me in all of them but they will make in character decisions so they will not all vote the same way.
Of course I don't know how close the results will be but I doubt that a few (extra) votes will make a huge difference in the results as there are a lot of FL players.
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ciel
Sorry RL means I am not a very active player at the moment. No social actions unless you are prepared to wait and definitely no sparring or other mult-action things.
No Calling Cards or boxed cats please. Will take dupes on the affluent photographers. Other social invitations welcome. Parabolan Kittens usually available, send me an in-game social action saying you want one and I will get one to you as soon as possible.
storynexus name - reveurciel
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
7/1/2016
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MrBurnside wrote:
I have no idea who I (main or alts) will vote for, but it doesn't seem like very much of a problem if they are being roleplayed according to their characterizations.
This thread has been full of discussions about competitive advantage, but there needs to be a goal/benefit/resource in order for there to be meaningful competition.
Jeremy Saklad wrote:
I think everyone should just on the honor system to not vote with alts, unless you have three alts cancelling each other out.
This presumes that there is advantage to being on the winning side, but in Fallen London the players win either way and don't win more for reading the same text more times. There is story to be read and silly roleplaying on the forums and twitter/facebook/etc, there is no win and no lose.
I can see people being upset at mass ballot stuffing (because it dilutes their ability to meaningfully impact events), but unless people are coordinating many, many alts, I can't see it making much of a difference.
Yes, that's a valid point. here's a valid counterpoint. I want the [Revolutionary Moderate] to win the election, and, failing that, for the [Sun-Bound Maniac] to lose. This has nothing to do with material rewards, but because i think one's best suited, another's worst suited, and that's how i want the story to end. I won't "ballot stuff", but this is just as much a competition for all that most of us really shouldn't care that much. I care anyways. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
edited by Grenem on 7/1/2016
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Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
7/2/2016
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Wouldn't the designers have taken Alts into consideration when they designed the voting system in the first place? Alts might matter less then players willing to pay Fate.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Morkan Kassington
Posts: 261
7/3/2016
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Anne Auclair wrote:
Estelle Knoht wrote:
I think it is more likely what campaigning you does will affect your own bubble, and nobody else.
If it were just your bubble, there would be no need to announce which candidate was ahead.
In my humble opinion Estelle does live in her own bubble, yes.
edited by Morkan Kassington on 7/3/2016
--
Ladies of the Neath, here comes Morkan Kassington, the gem among gentlemen
(He is actually a self-centered and foolish braggart, but he means no harm. Hit him up for social actions or dangerous lessons! Or just flirt.)
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
7/3/2016
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Anne Auclair wrote:
lady ciel wrote:
I don't think using Fate (unless there is a Fate-locked option during the election) or Exceptional Friendship should make a difference. There are many people who play only one character without spending RL money and people who pay for all their characters. It all depends on personal circumstances and how much money anyone is willing (or can afford) to spend on Fallen London.
There will almost certainly be Fate-locked options during the election. There are Fate-locked options during every London festival, right? During Sacksmas there are storylines which requires Fate. During the Feast of the Exceptional Rose there are items and companions that require Fate. Festivals are a nice source of income (and fair enough, Failbetter needs to keep the lights on and underwrite further content).
The election's not going to be one character, one vote. You're going to be campaigning and your campaigning options will arrive via an opportunity card, similar to the Lady in Lilac card during the Feast of the Exceptional Rose. Your campaigning will no doubt earn the chosen candidate a certain value (Jovial Contrarian 10: You have won a few votes for the Jovial Contrarian). The more campaigning, the higher this value will be (Jovial Contrarian 100: Crowds pack the theater to hear your speeches supporting the Jovial Contrarian). At the end of the election, all these values from across the player base will be totaled up and the candidate with the highest total will get the most votes and therefore win the election.
Everyone will be able to campaign, but there will probably be Fate-locked options that allow for better campaigning, whether in the form of higher value increases (story lines that give special rewards) or a cap on how much value your character can win for your candidate without Fate (similar to how Masking is capped during the Feast). So the portion of players willing to pay Fate will probably matter more than the number of dishonorably used alts.
wait, is this your guess- because this does sound like a good one- or from something actually dev-confirmed? I mean, campaigning does sound more balanced than just "everyone gets a vote", and you can make a case that then best practices would be to avoid serious campaigning on more than one account supporting the same individual, but for all we know it's a straightforward vote.
Most of the time, the point of a festival isn't capped- hallowmas might have had fate-locked options, but they didn't help you gather Spirit. Christmas' Taste of Lacre is only slightly inferior without fate, [in fact, wealthy free players have better options for getting ToL than poor fate players] and so on. You should get goodies but not a superior option for paying fate. Moreso since this is a competition.
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Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
7/3/2016
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Estelle Knoht wrote:
I think it is more likely what campaigning you does will affect your own bubble, and nobody else.
If it were just your bubble, there would be no need to announce which candidate was ahead.
Failbetter wrote:
Players will have two delicious weeks to bolster support for their chosen candidate through a variety of actions. At the end of the first week of Election, we will announce which candidate is ahead. The final day of Election will be Monday 18th July.
Estelle Knoht wrote:
Or, if it is really a multiplayer thing, the Fate options are probably more "let's get more insight or goodies" and less "you get a bigger vote". It is a very dangerous path to tread, since that's like pitting players wallets against each other.
You're probably right. Maybe paying fate will give you a special story where you find out the secrets behind the campaigns. Any fate-options that increases a candidates support will probably give you the same vote as a non-fate alternative, only with better story. That would make fate irrelevant as a factor.
edited by Anne Auclair on 7/3/2016
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
7/2/2016
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lady ciel wrote:
Where does the idea that alts might matter less than having one character or that people who have alts might not be spending RL money on them.
I don't think using Fate (unless there is a Fate-locked option during the election) or Exceptional Friendship should make a difference. There are many people who play only one character without spending RL money and people who pay for all their characters. It all depends on personal circumstances and how much money anyone is willing (or can afford) to spend on Fallen London.
There will almost certainly be Fate-locked options during the election. There are Fate-locked options during every London festival, right? During Sacksmas there are storylines which requires Fate. During the Feast of the Exceptional Rose there are items and companions that require Fate. Festivals are a nice source of income (and fair enough, Failbetter needs to keep the lights on and underwrite further content).
The election's not going to be one character, one vote. You're going to be campaigning and your campaigning options will arrive via an opportunity card, similar to the Lady in Lilac card during the Feast of the Exceptional Rose. Your campaigning will no doubt earn the chosen candidate a certain value (Jovial Contrarian 10: You have won a few votes for the Jovial Contrarian). The more campaigning, the higher this value will be (Jovial Contrarian 100: Crowds pack the theater to hear your speeches supporting the Jovial Contrarian). At the end of the election, all these values from across the player base will be totaled up and the candidate with the highest total will get the most votes and therefore win the election.
Everyone will be able to campaign, but there will probably be Fate-locked options that allow for better campaigning, whether in the form of higher value increases (story lines that give special rewards) or a cap on how much value your character can win for your candidate without Fate (similar to how Masking is capped during the Feast). So the portion of players willing to pay Fate will probably matter more than the number of dishonorably used alts.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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MrBurnside
Posts: 188
7/1/2016
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Grenem wrote:
MrBurnside wrote:
Snip
Yes, that's a valid point. here's a valid counterpoint. I want the [Revolutionary Moderate] to win the election, and, failing that, for the [Sun-Bound Maniac] to lose. This has nothing to do with material rewards, but because i think one's best suited, another's worst suited, and that's how i want the story to end. I won't "ballot stuff", but this is just as much a competition for all that most of us really shouldn't care that much. I care anyways. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
edited by Grenem on 7/1/2016
Of course. And I'm sincerely glad you care (as do I for that matter; ambivalence is not apathy), because it means that you're engaged and enthusiastic about the story. And that's good for everyone. It's good for you, in that you get pleasure and entertainment out of it. It's good for FBGs, in that, as a rule, engaged players are more likely to spend money. And it's good for fellow forum-goers (like myself) because it gets you to post interesting perspectives and be generally helpful.
But, as long as your characters are in agreement with you, my point stands.
It's the amazing thing about interactive fiction; character and player motivations converge and overlap. Your desires and motivations shape your characters and even the most OOC things become shameful compromises or moments of character defining weakness. If you (the player) campaign on behalf of the [Revolutionary Moderate] then you are, in fact, campaigning on/advocating for the future of your characters in Fallen London.
This goes the other way as well: your characters are utilizing your judgement to provide the story you want to read.
That was why I separated out sock-puppetting (how do you spell that?). They don't really have a character to be acting-in.
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Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2518
7/2/2016
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ochrasy wrote:
Jeremy Saklad wrote:
I think everyone should just on the honor system to not vote with alts, unless you have three alts cancelling each other out.
Ochrasy will vote for the Bishop, Robitaille for Jenny, and Herr Horst for the Contrarian. so, I'm good haha
but if the devs say they don't want anyone voting with their alts, I have no problem with that.
Agreed. In any event, my alt and my main would not vote for the same candidate. My alt thrives on being contrary (it's what led her into Seeking in the first place), and she detests the Bishop, who is getting my main character's vote.
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Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355
Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
6/30/2016
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Since it is more of a summer festival event instead of just voting on a poll, I presume the players will have to spend many actions and resource campaigning in-game for their candidates, and the meager efforts of an alt aren't going to do much.
Alternative, it is done like traditional events - it is actually self-contained for each players. We all share the same batch of candidates each year and can make suggestion to FBG for other candidates, but in-game we might just be picking the one we like, campaign for them, win for them and get a year-round effect.
I think the single-player variation is a bit more likely, really. It is less drama.
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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Koh Kai Ying
Posts: 110
6/30/2016
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Jeremy Saklad wrote:
I think everyone should just on the honor system to not vote with alts, unless you have three alts cancelling each other out.
That's a brilliant idea.
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Illyria K is your friend!!
More active nowadays. Eager for any social actions including Loitering!
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
6/30/2016
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...you just made me realise I'm in the same boat. Sir Fred will likely go Jenny, Juniper the Bishop and Esther the Contrarian, leaving Hubris with the only meaningful vote, which he might not even cast.
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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