Sir Joseph Marlen
Posts: 575
6/15/2016
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This past weekend, I was wondering on just how many routes were available when ending the Cheesemonger's storyline. I certainly felt like there were less magnanimous options to go with, but the others seemed more morally ambiguous at best. I was mostly satisfied by the ending, no doubt, but I never felt fully comfortable with mine. So, that got me thinking. How did everyone else decide to seal the fate of our favorite spymaster?
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 6/15/2016
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Sir Joseph Marlen - The Romantic Sophist
Alexus Harven - The Defiant Fatalist
Rose Reinhelm - The Respectful Revolutionary
Cappuccino - The Perfidious Spycraft
Available for any and all social actions.
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knguy
Posts: 70
6/15/2016
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Well I know I betrayed the Cheesemonger but I'm not precisely sure which option I chose.
...
Freakin' irrigo, am I right guys?
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"Knguy" - a rich, well connected, and steadfast gentleman. Terribly indulgent. Cunningly charming. Prone to zeezickness.
"No CP waste."
Have mysteries or need to gain second chances? Send me requests! High Shadowy/Persuasive. (yes, I loiter)
Nightmares/Suspicion woes? Stop hesitating! Let me know and I'll take care of those issues!
I am a Crooked-Cross! Invite me to your Salon.
Convenient wikia link
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Passionario
Posts: 777
6/15/2016
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Of course Passionario sold her to the Masters. Passionario would sell everyone to the Masters, given the option.
Even you.
Especially you.
knguy wrote:
Freakin' irrigo, am I right guys?
I know, right?
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Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
Passion: Profile, Appearance
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narcomanic
Posts: 64
6/15/2016
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I blew the whole place up. Fond memories, in the sense that this was the moment my character realised just how much she likes explosions and setting stuff on fire...
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Cecilia Vass, a Shattering Force available for patronage. Warning: You will get stabbed. Take it as a compliment.
Currently rallying mobs for Feducci.
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malthaussen
Posts: 1060
6/15/2016
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As a fan of Shakespeare, I thought "Get thee to a Nunnery" was the appropriate choice.
-- Mal
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"Of two choices, I always take the third."
Will do all socials except Loitering or Private Evenings (all my Free Evenings are accounted for), and Affluent Photographer Betrayals only, please. I am not currently accepting calling cards.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/malthaussen
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
6/15/2016
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Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
This past weekend, I was wondering on just how many routes were available when ending the Cheesemonger's storyline. I certainly felt like there were less magnanimous options to go with, but the others seemed more morally ambiguous at best. I was mostly satisfied by the ending, no doubt, but I never felt fully comfortable with mine. So, that got me thinking. How did everyone else decide to seal the fate of our favorite spymaster?
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 6/15/2016
Sealing her fate? There were few ways it could end- involuntary imprisonment or death. The best i could do was enact her plan- and i believed in it, and believe still that killing spies in the game is no more morally wrong than killing the vake would be, or destroying a spider-council. They can think, but enact more harm than the average citizen, and will hurt more people by being allowed to persist than they would help. I am aware of the element of hypocrisy in this statement.
edited by Grenem on 6/15/2016
--
Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
6/15/2016
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My idiot of a character couldn't go through with her plan, didn't want to murder her, didn't want to put her poor daughter in her place, and didn't want to betray her to anyone. He wanted to turn her in to the police. But that wasn't an option. So he decided the Masters were at least authority figures, so maybe if he told them, they would send the police after her to stop her.
Yeah...she probably would have had a less horiffic fate if he'd chosen literally any other option :P
Another death that haunts him...
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Passionario
Posts: 777
6/16/2016
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Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
And yes, I agree that the Great Game gets a bad rap.
Life is like a zailing trip and our bodies are the ships
And without a higher purpose we would all be cast adrift
So to provide us guidance, the Powers That Be gave us a gift
And like most gifts you get these days, it was a game
I only play one game, but it's a great game, I tell you
I do the things I do because the Great Game tells me to
If I wanna know how to be great, it's playing Great Game that I'll do
Cause Great Game is a game and it is great and it's a game
I know the Great Game's great because the Great Game says it's great
I know the Great Game knows it's great because a great game would know, mate
You wouldn't be blamed without a blame game and I think it's just the same
You can't be great without the Great Game cause it's great and it's a game
I tried to play some other games, but I soon gave up on that
You can't kill other players, steal their stuff or twist the facts
I can't play baccarat cause there are fixed rules for bets
And you can't change them on a whim and that's bad, cause it's not great
Just because the game condones
Ruined lives and broken bones
With armies of obedient drones
Ruled from crooked Surface thrones
Just because what empires do
Will end up killing me and you
Just cause Alice is insane
Doesn't mean that we should ever give acclaim
To any other game
But the Great Game
'Cause it's great
And it's a game
And it's a game
And it's quite great!
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Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
Passion: Profile, Appearance
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Shadowcthuhlu
Posts: 1557
6/16/2016
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knguy wrote:
I play the Game occasionally, but it's just, it's so boring. Spies never want to stand out and they're even willing to kill people permanently to advance goals that do not coincide with my own. I doubt any of them have ever enjoyed a single party in their lives. And they're too serious to try the old-fashioned style of larceny.
But Urchins? They have the Topsy King, the Flit, and Mahogany Hall, which high society visits regularly. What more do you need?
Clearly you are playing the game wrong. I always play with a fine suit and a drink in my hand.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Dirae%20Erinyes. Closed to calling cards, but open for all other social action. I also love to roleplay.
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dismallyOriented
Posts: 215
6/17/2016
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On a related note--a long time ago, me and Little_The made a doc where people could state and explain their choices for parts of FL's major (mostly non-FATE) storylines, including the Cheesemonger's Fate. It was equal parts rationale and retrospective.
In any case the doc hasn't been updated in over a year and now is missing some of the more recent additions to the game, but if you want to look it over or add yourself in, you're welcome to.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PtgDKcg2Zu0ZoQwvYaRBOhaqm_kaCjglxhnD71eLPBY/edit?usp=sharing
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
6/15/2016
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I forget what my main did, but Madison faked her own (permanent) death to escape that mess. It was the first time any of my characters had died.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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Sir Joseph Marlen
Posts: 575
6/15/2016
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Okay, I'm going to be completely honest here. I expected most people to have either killed her enemies or to have replaced her. Some would betray her to private employers. A few might even blow them up for the heck of it. But I only put the walk away option as a technicality. I didn't expect anyone to actually click the damn thing. Like, I can't understand why you would go through a story just to drop out right before the ending. I don't know why, but I have some strange amount of respect for you and your inability to care.
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Sir Joseph Marlen - The Romantic Sophist
Alexus Harven - The Defiant Fatalist
Rose Reinhelm - The Respectful Revolutionary
Cappuccino - The Perfidious Spycraft
Available for any and all social actions.
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friendshipranger
Posts: 274
6/16/2016
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Put Catherine in charge of the operation, of course. Also learned how...athletic she could be. Mutually thrilling, on all counts. A good end had by all.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/J.L.%20Moriarty
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absimiliard
Posts: 759
6/15/2016
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Absimiliard turned out to care deeply for Alice. They were horrified at her plan, and after much discussion with my Particular Friend Absimiliard chose to strangle her with their own two hands and replace her with Catherine after shipping her out to a tomb-colony. It was an agonizing choice for me, the player, even with good advice from my friend. Following it Absimiliard got terribly drunk with Appolonia hoping to forget, to no avail.
Alas, like Lady Macbeth, there is no way to wash those stains from my character's hands. They even now still look in horror at them, recalling what they've done.
I think that might have been the first step on the path that has led Absimiliard to becoming a true monster, since then there is something broken in them -- something capable of savage, vicious, violence.
{edit: because my pronouns are they/them/theirs, not "his" or "hers", forgive authorial error.}
edited by absimiliard on 6/15/2016
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"Because, Parabola!" -- the Curious Captain
Eating nightmares from friends -- and I'm easy to befriend.
Absimiliard: the Black Rose of Wolfstack Docks
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
6/15/2016
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I always thought it was most fitting that her grandiose plan ends in a whimper in a random church. Everyone is listening intently for an epic twist or a touching ending, then it suddenly goes "Alice threw a temper tantrum so I got her daughter to put her in a church to calm down."
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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Mr Sables
Posts: 597
6/15/2016
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For the life of me, I can find no record of what I chose on my page . . . which is weird, because the game records every little choice I make, no matter how insignificant (even for unfinished stories I've long forgotten about) . . . can't find what I've chosen for this, though.
I picked "replaced her with Catherine", because my gut feeling is that what I did and I vaguely remember doing that . . . that being said, once I got my destiny, I started siding with the masters for all things (which is much more in character), so I guess it depends when I played . . . I may have betrayed her to them.
So, replaced her . . . I think :-S
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MrBurnside
Posts: 188
6/16/2016
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Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
...Bloody justice is still considered justice, no matter how many bodies have to drop to do it. That doesn't make it definitely right or justified, per se...
The thing is: if it's "justice" then it's "justified." The words can't be meaningfully removed from one another. This is more then whether or not they share a root, it about how we define them. "Nice" may not always be a part of "justified," but it means that no unreasonable harm was done. If disproportionate or unreasonable harm was done: then the word no longer applies.
I'm sorry if my objection comes across as... well cross, but, having lived through nineties comics I'm not eager to resume them.
On another matter entirely, I feel like the Game gets a bad rap in this story. The only person who asks you to do such terrible things is Alice. Throughout most of the nineteenth century espionage was mostly used to maintain the status-quo. The status-quo may have been pretty much crap pretty much of the time, but that's neither here nor there. Information gathering and dissemination is inherently deceptive, but rarely so bloodthirsty as the conquests of Great Powers were. If nothing else such flashiness would increase the heat on you and get you killed.
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Shadowcthuhlu
Posts: 1557
6/15/2016
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I just to enact her plan - because Dirae Erinyes understands nothing else but pain and revenge at the time.
There was a reason I didn't really RP until well after this character got married. They would've been a bloody menace to deal with until they become more stable.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Dirae%20Erinyes. Closed to calling cards, but open for all other social action. I also love to roleplay.
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Fincar
Posts: 41
7/7/2016
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In the end I sent her to the church and let Catherine take her place.
My reasoning is that even if I enacted Alice's plan the game would not stop, the players would only get new pawns to play with. Not to mention if there isn't a Chessmonger there will be a power vaccum wich will only be filled with blood and corpses until someone potentially worse rises to take her place.
So why send her to the church instead of just killing her or send her to the tomb colonies? Because honestly I fell it is not my place to judge her, and I am not sure I would not do the same on her place.
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A person of some little importance... really
I am open to most forms of social interactions.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Fincar
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Fincar
Posts: 41
7/9/2016
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Wooster wrote:
I try to play my character (on the big decisions, at least) as a Lawful Neutral: the Law, in this case, being Truth. He therefore has a bit of a revolutionary streak as well.
Lawful=Revolution.... wait what?
I know this is a bit off-topic but a Lawful character usually would deffer to an authority, in this case the Masters being the closest thing to it.
So... would you please elaborate on that?
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A person of some little importance... really
I am open to most forms of social interactions.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Fincar
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CALLNXW
Posts: 116
6/17/2016
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Blew them all to smithereens without regrets. Can't trust noone else to kill people here.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/Call%20Now
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
6/16/2016
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Anne thought Alice's scheme completely deranged. The Masters could be trusted to make the problem go away. That was the important thing.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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knguy
Posts: 70
6/16/2016
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I play the Game occasionally, but it's just, it's so boring. Spies never want to stand out and they're even willing to kill people permanently to advance goals that do not coincide with my own. I doubt any of them have ever enjoyed a single party in their lives. And they're too serious to try the old-fashioned style of larceny.
But Urchins? They have the Topsy King, the Flit, and Mahogany Hall, which high society visits regularly. What more do you need?
--
"Knguy" - a rich, well connected, and steadfast gentleman. Terribly indulgent. Cunningly charming. Prone to zeezickness.
"No CP waste."
Have mysteries or need to gain second chances? Send me requests! High Shadowy/Persuasive. (yes, I loiter)
Nightmares/Suspicion woes? Stop hesitating! Let me know and I'll take care of those issues!
I am a Crooked-Cross! Invite me to your Salon.
Convenient wikia link
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Bonny Kate
Posts: 78
7/13/2016
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I'm a stat maxed character who refuses to complete the Cheesemonger storyline because of the bit where you have to kill the Ambassador's valet if he won't come quietly. Since I have no reason to know why I should, the storylet just sits there. My character doesn't have a problem killing people, but she wants a good reason first.
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I quite like receiving Calling Cards.
I am open to most social actions (including trading boxed cats), and am happy to help with menaces or actions involving second chances.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Bonny%20Kate
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Lythalia
Posts: 21
7/7/2016
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I enacted the plan. If you asked me why, I would probably say that I just wanted it all to end. But if that was true, wouldn't I have just walked away? Or just planted the explosives? I had more than enough beetles, I could've done it. But no, I know that wasn't the case. I had no alternate motives, no prejudices against the players of the game. I think, if I'm truthful with myself, I just wanted to see if I could get away with it.
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I've been playing FL for about a month, so and advice would be appreciated!
If you would like to chat without the warryness Londen oozes, my tumblr is Occultling!
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/lythalia
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aegisaglow
Posts: 202
6/15/2016
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Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
I'm sure you could come up with one, but it'd be more difficult to defend selling a justice-seeker out to literal Hell or just whoever is willing to pay as just and moral.
I'm pretty skeptical of calling Alice a "justice-seeker". That's certainly one way to put it, but her "justice" involved mass murder and wouldn't do anything besides create a power vacuum of international proportions.
I was somewhat endeared to her personally, but a lot of the things she wanted me to do I found extremely dubious ("start a gang war between children" tops the list) and again, the last task was "enact mass murder". So I gave her to the Masters, I suppose because I figured they were the only ones who could really judge a crime like this (which may have been influenced by playing Sunless Sea and hearing "the Game goes all the way up to the stars", a line that's stuck with me even though I still don't really know what it means).
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Mx. Aglow. Glazier, hedonist, devil-teaser, Paramount Presence. Pursuing their Heart's Desire.
Ms. Lilian Leith. A lady of proper standing, which seems like an increasingly ludicrous thing to give a rat's ___ about. Known (to some) for her Light Fingers.
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Sir Joseph Marlen
Posts: 575
6/16/2016
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MrBurnside wrote:
Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
...Bloody justice is still considered justice, no matter how many bodies have to drop to do it. That doesn't make it definitely right or justified, per se...
The thing is: if it's "justice" then it's "justified." The words can't be meaningfully removed from one another. This is more then whether or not they share a root, it about how we define them. "Nice" may not always be a part of "justified," but it means that no unreasonable harm was done. If disproportionate or unreasonable harm was done: then the word no longer applies.
I'm sorry if my objection comes across as... well cross, but, having lived through nineties comics I'm not eager to resume them.
On another matter entirely, I feel like the Game gets a bad rap in this story. The only person who asks you to do such terrible things is Alice. Throughout most of the nineteenth century espionage was mostly used to maintain the status-quo. The status-quo may have been pretty much crap pretty much of the time, but that's neither here nor there. Information gathering and dissemination is inherently deceptive, but rarely so bloodthirsty as the conquests of Great Powers were. If nothing else such flashiness would increase the heat on you and get you killed.
Oh, no worries about being cross! We're merely having a discussion, no harm in that. When I say "bloody justice", I'm meaning it from the perspective of someone who would see it as that: just. However, just because someone thinks something is or isn't just doesn't mean that the opinion is inherently true. That's what I'm referring to, that someone could see the murders as being just in their actions but that doesn't make their belief inherently right or wrong. I myself chose to replace Alice with Catherine and to send our Cheesemonger to find peace in the Church. That being said, I don't like saying something definitely is or isn't evil since I've been wrong many a time before and the situation isn't exactly Fallout levels of moral clarity.
And yes, I agree that the Great Game gets a bad rap. Sure, that doesn't mean that it's good either, and it certainly doesn't mean that the people within it are above judgement, but the Great Game is simply a medium of spies and information that tips the scale of power. It could certainly be used for wrong by keeping a negative part of the status quo from disappearing or allowing someone to abuse an unbalance of power in their favor, but it could also be used to keep peace and order as well as offer aid and growth to weaker organizations in need of support. In the end, it's more like a tool in how its usage and outcome depends on the user and the circumstances surrounding it. Killing it off entirely wouldn't really be my suggestion, nor would slaughtering a chunk of it that one deems to be corrupted, but I wouldn't rule someone as wrong for thinking themself a justice seeker should they consider eliminating harmful and unchecked elements despite the risk as a right. Again, that's not what I'd personally wish to do, but I hesitate to call it "bad".
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 6/16/2016
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Sir Joseph Marlen - The Romantic Sophist
Alexus Harven - The Defiant Fatalist
Rose Reinhelm - The Respectful Revolutionary
Cappuccino - The Perfidious Spycraft
Available for any and all social actions.
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Kittenpox
Posts: 869
6/15/2016
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Yeah, this story was a very long time ago for me - I can't really remember what I did at all.
(Might end up scouring the wiki later and see if anything feels familiar, then edit this afterwards.)
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Kittenpox
Current [Fabulous Diamond] count: Twenty-Five (of 50). Halfway there! ^_^
Metaphysical Caprice: 11.
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Currently: Returned to the Neath, and regaining my footing in this place. :-)
NO PLANT BATTLES PLEASE.
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fallingkitten
Posts: 53
6/15/2016
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Perhaps there should be an option on the poll along the lines of "I did what I did, and that was that" or something? For those of us who finished with the Cheesemonger a while ago, and don't remember what we did.
(Because I honestly haven't the foggiest what the Cheesemonger's fate was, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who's forgotten what they did.)
Edit: Knowing me, I probably did whatever garnered me the most profit, whatever that is.
edited by fallingkitten on 6/15/2016
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The august abode of a young feline unwittingly affected by gravity
912 change points of dreams annihilated.
Accepting any and all social actions, and always happy to help with menaces.
__________________________________________________________________________________
Hiram McDaniels - A five-headed dragon, who cares? Currently not running for Neathy Mayor
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Sir Joseph Marlen
Posts: 575
6/15/2016
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Grenem wrote:
Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
This past weekend, I was wondering on just how many routes were available when ending the Cheesemonger's storyline. I certainly felt like there were less magnanimous options to go with, but the others seemed more morally ambiguous at best. I was mostly satisfied by the ending, no doubt, but I never felt fully comfortable with mine. So, that got me thinking. How did everyone else decide to seal the fate of our favorite spymaster?
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 6/15/2016
Sealing her fate? There were few ways it could end- involuntary imprisonment or death. The best i could do was enact her plan- and i believed in it, and believe still that killing spies in the game is no more morally wrong than killing the vake would be, or destroying a spider-council. They can think, but enact more harm than the average citizen, and will hurt more people by being allowed to persist than they would help. I am aware of the element of hypocrisy in this statement.
edited by Grenem on 6/15/2016
Yeah, I can get behind that. I was referring to options such as blowing the lot of them up or just walking away as the slightly more "wtf hero" options. Though, since the more seemingly philosophic ideals involve slaughtering a bunch of people or just letting them off scott free, there's a pretty fair case to be made that just leaving them to their business or stopping the madness before it goes any further could be seen as a good thing to do. Not my personal cup of tea, but oh how I love to play devil's advocate.
That's the thing that always got me on this story. My character doesn't like spilling blood unnecessarily but still wants justice, and they would also want the Cheesemonger to let go from her revenge so that it wouldn't consume her but also doesn't want to just let amoral killers who control the world with their actions go mucking around without punishment. Basically what I'm saying is I'm an indecisive prick who just wants justice without worry of the whole "stare into the abyss" guilt trip. If only you could act it out like in Dishonored where your targets live but are put out of commission/punished in ways so horrible that death probably would be a more merciful option. Still, though, can't really blame people for killing the Game players or replacing Alice. Or any other choices, really. There's a (more or less) reasonable argument for why each route could be considered the "better option". Within reason, of course. I'm sure you could come up with one, but it'd be more difficult to defend selling a justice-seeker out to literal Hell or just whoever is willing to pay as just and moral. Not impossible, but strikingly more difficult.
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 6/15/2016
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Sir Joseph Marlen - The Romantic Sophist
Alexus Harven - The Defiant Fatalist
Rose Reinhelm - The Respectful Revolutionary
Cappuccino - The Perfidious Spycraft
Available for any and all social actions.
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