malbogio
Posts: 6
6/7/2016
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I'm very interested in exploring the SMEN story but I've heard it requires a great deal of sacrifice. While I want to avoid spoilers on the details of the plot I'd like a ballpark of exactly how damaging the story is. Like is this something that is going to cripple my account severely forever? I just became a POSI in the last month and am concerned at the thought that it might render my character unplayable. If it's just going to cost me a month's worth of echos/actions and some slight maiming then while it's rather scary I'll probably give it a shot anyway just to see the writing while it is still available. I also wonder if there are certain character progressions that it might be better to avoid before SMEN rather than buying them just to sacrifice them a couple days later, or if for a character of my development (average stat level around 110, exploring University and Mahogany Hall and just about to go out to sea) attempting to complete SMEN might not even be feasible given my current resources.
If this sort of question is not vague enough for forum standards please let me know as I'd rather delete it than break the rules.
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phryne
Posts: 1347
6/7/2016
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The question is vague enough, the problem is rather that it's mostly unanswerable! 
You see, SMEN wasn't completed the first time round. Far from it. So it's impossible to tell whether you're well equipped to complete it.
Regarding the "how damaging is it?" question: apparently, it used to be very damaging. But that was largely due to it being extremely buggy. You see, it was unofficial, unsupported content that the founder of Failbetter wrote in his spare-time and everybody was playing it at their own risk.
This time it will be official, supported content. It was also said that it would probably be "defanged" or "toned down" compared to the first time.
But at this point, nobody knows anything specific!
 This post will give you an idea of how SMEN was - but it contains many spoilers.
edited by phryne on 6/8/2016
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Jeremy Avalon
Posts: 345
6/7/2016
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Progressively and massively damaging. I mean, this is the story where you could pay Fate to permanently delete your character.
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How we must glow; yes, I bet we look like snow.
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
6/7/2016
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While I can't say that it never would have adversely affected my Seeker for the most part the damage was pretty well contained. It's a pretty wild ride and there was definitely one part of it where I had to change my entire playstyle drastically until it was over, but apart from that I never noticed the damage. Well, apart from the stat damage, but that's recoverable.
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Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
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spader623
Posts: 8
6/7/2016
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(i'm almost exactly in the same boat as the topic creator, POSI, 110ish stats, etc etc)
From what you guys have said... It seems we don't know, but judging from what happended last time, it's more so resources and items that youll lose, rather then literally screwing up your character to the point of being locked out of specific things?
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Harlocke
Posts: 506
6/7/2016
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I haven't played SMEN, but I understand it also unlocked a torment destiny that provided -3 to all stats. Which is actually more than a -3 drain, since you're also giving up the boosts other destinies provide.
I don't know much about that though, or whether the torment destiny was mandatory if you were seeking.
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I welcome social actions, and can visit your salon as an author.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Harlocke
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
6/7/2016
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Torment is optional, though it was the first source of that particular candle. My Seeker has it, though I never equipped the item so the stat drops don't affect him.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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spader623
Posts: 8
6/7/2016
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Harlocke wrote:
I haven't played SMEN, but I understand it also unlocked a torment destiny that provided -3 to all stats. Which is actually more than a -3 drain, since you're also giving up the boosts other destinies provide.
I don't know much about that though, or whether the torment destiny was mandatory if you were seeking.
What's a "Destiny"? Also, is that basically a... "i have shadowy 150 but because of my destiny, its 147 and will ALWAYS be 3 below what i have"?
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phryne
Posts: 1347
6/8/2016
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spader623 wrote:
(i'm almost exactly in the same boat as the topic creator, POSI, 110ish stats, etc etc)
From what you guys have said... It seems we don't know, but judging from what happended last time, it's more so resources and items that youll lose, rather then literally screwing up your character to the point of being locked out of specific things?
From what I've seen and read, what you should at least be prepared for is
a) massive stat-losses - literally massive, like halving your stats from 100 to 50
b) getting bombarded with Menaces, both by the game itself (non-discardable menace cards) and other players (via social actions)
c) loss of (very) valuable items
d) loss of ALL your lodgings(!!!) or Connections/Favours(/Renown?)
There might have been the occasional content that Seekers were locked out of, but generally you were able to play the rest of the game like everyone else. While getting kicked in the teeth.
edited by phryne on 6/8/2016
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
6/8/2016
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spader623 wrote:
Harlocke wrote:
I haven't played SMEN, but I understand it also unlocked a torment destiny that provided -3 to all stats. Which is actually more than a -3 drain, since you're also giving up the boosts other destinies provide.
I don't know much about that though, or whether the torment destiny was mandatory if you were seeking.
What's a "Destiny"? Also, is that basically a... "i have shadowy 150 but because of my destiny, its 147 and will ALWAYS be 3 below what i have"?
A destiny is an item slot. You can only fill it during the holidays, and you can only have one. Most provide +5 to a stat. And yes, it will always be 3 below if you choose the torment destiny.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
6/8/2016
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Read this for a list of the old costs:
http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Seeking_Mr_Eaten's_Name_%28Guide%29
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spader623
Posts: 8
6/8/2016
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phryne wrote:
spader623 wrote:
(i'm almost exactly in the same boat as the topic creator, POSI, 110ish stats, etc etc)
From what you guys have said... It seems we don't know, but judging from what happended last time, it's more so resources and items that youll lose, rather then literally screwing up your character to the point of being locked out of specific things?
From what I've seen and read, what you should at least be prepared for is
a) massive stat-losses - literally massive, like halving your stats from 100 to 50
b) getting bombarded with Menaces, both by the game itself (non-discardable menace cards) and other players (via social actions)
c) loss of (very) valuable items
There might have been the occasional part of a story that seekers couldn't play, but generally you were able to play the rest of the game content like everyone else. Just getting kicked in the teeth occasionally.
edited by phryne on 6/8/2016
All of that i can live with... Except A. That's... Kinda ridiculous, so i expect that to be part of being "defanged".
B and C arent fun, but its things im perfectly ok with considering they're just things i can get again.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
6/8/2016
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I doubt A will be one of the things defanged. They put a lot of things like that in the previous version.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
6/8/2016
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malbogio wrote:
I'd like a ballpark of exactly how damaging the story is.
If you have to ask, you can't afford it.
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The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
6/8/2016
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spader623 wrote:
(i'm almost exactly in the same boat as the topic creator, POSI, 110ish stats, etc etc)
From what you guys have said... It seems we don't know, but judging from what happended last time, it's more so resources and items that youll lose, rather then literally screwing up your character to the point of being locked out of specific things?
With the exception of selling your soul- and perhaps abslution ablution- you cannot get locked out of anything by seeking the name. That said, it loves to fill you with inconveniences, there were two menace cards, you went through searing enigmas like water (7, minimum), you had to get a waxwail knife while anyone and everyone seeking could steal your entire stack of prize tokens for a single searing enigma. You got two undiscardable penalty cards added to the deck
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Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
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TheThirdPolice
Posts: 609
6/8/2016
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Perhaps I am a Master Eaten snob. The story's core is loss and self-harm. If you do not wish to make great sacrifices for the sake of a strange madness, striving to lose more and more toward no purpose, then do not Seek.
But yes, most sacrifices were reversible with effort. Stains on Your Soul, Reputation: Abomination, and Destiny: Torment did demonstrate that the story was willing to mark you permanently, but no one knows how far the new Seeking will go.
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Excessive Corpse & Tender to Irreal Ravens
Lover of Flawed Souls
And with especial pride, Worst Screwup of the Decade!
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phryne
Posts: 1347
6/8/2016
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TheThirdPolice wrote:
The story's core is loss and self-harm. If you do not wish to make great sacrifices for the sake of a strange madness, striving to lose more and more toward no purpose, then do not Seek.
Very well said! We should put up banners with these words in all SMEN threads, now that more and more excited new players are being drawn here like frost-moths to a Candle; just so they know what they're signing up to (even though I expect FB to put the most severe warnings imaginable into the content).
Here's another very good summary:
Alexis Kennedy wrote:
Erik Vimes wrote:
incredibly irritated with Faibetter and especially Mr Kennedy. Making the path slippery and sacrificial is perfectly fine, but straight-up not letting people even have the chance to proceed is just plain black-hearted. Even by a Seeker's definition
It's not, by design, slippery and sacrificial, it's deliberately unfair. The warnings are there for a reason. Let me go on record (not for the first time): if you take this path, you are more likely to fail than to succeed, through no fault of your own. You may get an invitation later, but if so then accepting it will probably lead to later, worse failure. If you're irritated with me or with the game right now, you will only get more irritated later on, and I recommend you get out now.
edited by phryne on 6/8/2016
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Blaine Davidson
Posts: 388
6/8/2016
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phryne wrote:
This post will give you an idea of how SMEN was - but it contains many spoilers.
edited by phryne on 6/8/2016
As curious as I am, I don't think my character could ever bring herself to do this. She's far too materialistic and proud of her achievements to risk it all on scraps of information.
I think the only way she could be tempted is if it was to help another.
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Blaine Davidson, a reserved and sensible woman with a fondness of collecting rarities.
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MrBurnside
Posts: 188
6/8/2016
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spader623 wrote:
phryne wrote:
spader623 wrote:
Snip
Snip
All of that i can live with... Except A. That's... Kinda ridiculous, so i expect that to be part of being "defanged".
B and C arent fun, but its things im perfectly ok with considering they're just things i can get again.
Edit: What I meant to say (and utterly failed to) was mostly that SMEN is/was mostly end-game content at a point in Fallen London's development when there was less content all round. This meant that costs were mostly calibrated for near-cap players, not so much for people just starting to really explore. There is a ton of game to explore and a ton of lore hinted at everywhere, so you shouldn't necessarily feel obligated to begin it any time soon.
It's kind of funny, that's the one that becomes the most affordable the longer you play. Losing all your lodgings (even if acquired at Sackmas) is just an enormous cost that dwarfs stat drain entirely.
When at cap, dropping to 100 isn't as crippling as from 100 to 50. And after all, stats raise themselves just by taking actions you were going to take anyway.
edited by MrBurnside on 6/8/2016
edited by MrBurnside on 6/8/2016
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
6/8/2016
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Fortunately the Lodgings cost isn't mandatory. It's that, losing all Connections (and presumably Renown now), or paying Fate to lose your Destiny.
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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