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Upcoming Connected Tomb-Colonist Rework! Messages in this topic - RSS

James StAnthony
James StAnthony
Administrator
Posts: 28

3/22/2016
Hi everyone. Just to let you know, we're going to be implementing the changeover from Connected: Tomb-Colonists to Favours and Renown tomorrow. Further details on what this means can be found here: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic20369-favours-and-renown.aspx

We'll announce in this thread when we start and finish the changes!


Update: Connected Tomb-Colonist has now been converted to Favours and Renowns.


We'll be in the content for a while making the changes, so there may be some slight weirdness but should all be settled by the time we're finished.


We'll be listening to feedback afterwards, and there may be further adjustments over the next few days as we rebalance things.





edited by James StAnthony on 3/22/2016
edited by James StAnthony on 3/22/2016
edited by James StAnthony on 3/24/2016
edited by James StAnthony on 3/24/2016
edited by James StAnthony on 3/24/2016
+1 link
Gonen
Gonen
Posts: 817

3/23/2016
Yes, but too many Renown can lock a person out of the quirk polisher (since using it when having a high renown demands a hard to gain stat). Perhaps a cap on gaining renown through weekly profession, if that suggestion is adopted.
edited by Gonen on 3/24/2016

--
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Kalix
Kalix
Posts: 50

3/25/2016
Wow, I hate this already, and I didn't even know about the Collection of Curiosities needing a Favour, all of which I lost because I drew the Rubbery Man conflict card today with no warning (I tend to forget the forums exist, and the only game notification I saw recently was for the FL trailer). I also lost 750 nodules of Deep Amber...

I always used to discard that card anyway because I really don't want to leave even an imaginary person to die in a fire.

TLDR: I like Rubbery Men and Tomb Colonists, this new update seems hard to understand and irritating, is there any way around undiscardable cards?
+5 link
Meradine Heidenreich
Meradine Heidenreich
Posts: 468

3/25/2016
Kalix wrote:
Wow, I hate this already, ... I like Rubbery Men and Tomb Colonists, this new update seems hard to understand and irritating


Same here. The update also seems to have winnowed the selection of cards coming up. Has anyone else noticed this? Or was it just the luck of the draw?

--
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of cheese on my tray ..
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geremy
geremy
Posts: 70

3/25/2016
I have to say, I'm disappointed by the hard cap of 50 Renown. Last year in the thread where Flyte responded to questions about the new connections system (http://community.failbettergames.com/topic20369-favours-and-renown.aspx?Page=1), they had this to say in answer to a question about whether players with exceptionally high connected stats might get a special quality in exchange for the loss of that stat:

We'd rather not create unique qualities; it takes time we could otherwise spend improving the game for everyone, especially once you factor in concerns about fairness – if we do this for Connected: Society, would we have to do it every time we retire a quality? If not, where would we draw the line? The reward for remarkable levels of Connected will be remarkable levels of Renown.


I took that last sentence to mean that Renown would not be capped, and thus I continued to increase my favorite connections. Now at least 40 levels of my "Tomb Colonies" stat have vanished into the ether, and at some point a substantial portion of my 500+ "Great Game" connection, which carries a pretty high in-game value, will also be lost without anything to show for it.

I know plans change. It's really not that big of a deal. But it's still disappointing.
edited by geremy on 3/25/2016
edited by geremy on 3/25/2016

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Erika
Erika
Posts: 528

3/25/2016
So uh. At the moment. No conflict cards give favours. So the only viable means, that we know of, for getting Favours: Tomb-Colonies is on the Tomb-Colonies faction card. I'm not including the faction pets as I strongly feel that the faction pets should not be integral to gaining favours, as only one pet is available at the time, it only encourages the bottleneck that is now Favours.

This means that if you want to trade a Collection of Curiosities, you need to draw the Tomb-Colonies faction card twice. Yay slightly more epa, but a big damnit to having to now draw the Tomb-Colonies card twice, meaning quite literally that the Collection of Curiosities grind is now twice as slow.

I've probably said this before, but one of, if not the, biggest issue I have with Favours is Favours being near exclusively card based (that and the faction items not giving out Favours like they used to Connections).

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Gillsing
Gillsing
Posts: 1203

3/24/2016
Are we supposed to lose 750 Nodule of Deep Amber when saving the rubbery man at the carnival?
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Erika
Erika
Posts: 528

3/25/2016
Kalix wrote:
Wow, I hate this already, and I didn't even know about the Collection of Curiosities needing a Favour, all of which I lost because I drew the Rubbery Man conflict card today with no warning (I tend to forget the forums exist, and the only game notification I saw recently was for the FL trailer)
I still think the banner really should still be updated with this information, as I suggested in the last thread, the app and the switch to Favours could both be mentioned in the banner. They're not mutually exclusive after all. The banner could even link to this thread for those that want to know what the change did: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic21981-tomb-colonist-favoursrenown-gain--uses.aspx

I would suggest this thread, but there's no changelog.
edited by Cecil on 3/25/2016

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Where the sun is hot, the moon is beautiful, and mysterious lights pass overhead while we all pretend to sleep.
                           Going on a fate expedition? I'm collecting data! Help me?
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Kalix
Kalix
Posts: 50

3/25/2016
I'm also not sure why you lose the opportunity to gain Favours at the Carnival after your Renown is above 5, if Renown doesn't go down? Is waiting for cards the only way you can get Favours? This seems like it will make the game quite irritating :-(
+3 link
Erika
Erika
Posts: 528

3/25/2016
Kalix wrote:
I'm also not sure why you lose the opportunity to gain Favours at the Carnival after your Renown is above 5, if Renown doesn't go down? Is waiting for cards the only way you can get Favours? This seems like it will make the game quite irritating :-(

There's Mutton Island and once off things. But, so far as I'm aware, yes. Waiting for cards is the only way to get Favours. A few of us, myself included, are not happy about this.

--
Where the sun is hot, the moon is beautiful, and mysterious lights pass overhead while we all pretend to sleep.
                           Going on a fate expedition? I'm collecting data! Help me?
               "Bottles of Oblivion" drunk in the name of content: 57
              Catboxes (send more!) opened in the name of science: 1093
                    Fancy a friend?
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Rysiek
Rysiek
Posts: 693

3/23/2016
As you are turning more amd more connections... could you change it so you get a little renown from your employer each weak? As in: Ah Konstantynopolska! She oves us, criminals favors. It would be logical to get more known too...


  • --
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    I apologize for any and all anachronisms. I am too lazy to check some facts if I am sure they are from the 1890s or sometimes think they are.

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    Estelle Knoht
    Estelle Knoht
    Posts: 1751

    3/24/2016
    262 Connected is enough for

    Hm. I hope it is like, cheerleader rally chant.
    edited by Estelle Knoht on 3/24/2016

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    rahv7
    rahv7
    Posts: 294

    3/24/2016
    A word of warning: I just played the Society/Tomb Colonies conflict card, sided with the Tomb Colonist and lost 500 CP(!) Connected Society. Also, I didn't get any Favours although that might well have been because I had 7 Favours already. There wasn't any message concerning Favours, though.

    --
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    MrBurnside
    MrBurnside
    Posts: 188

    3/26/2016
    Kalix wrote:
    Wow, I hate this already, and I didn't even know about the Collection of Curiosities needing a Favour, all of which I lost because I drew the Rubbery Man conflict card today with no warning (I tend to forget the forums exist, and the only game notification I saw recently was for the FL trailer). I also lost 750 nodules of Deep Amber...

    I always used to discard that card anyway because I really don't want to leave even an imaginary person to die in a fire.

    TLDR: I like Rubbery Men and Tomb Colonists, this new update seems hard to understand and irritating, is there any way around undiscardable cards?

    Kalix wrote:
    I'm also not sure why you lose the opportunity to gain Favours at the Carnival after your Renown is above 5, if Renown doesn't go down? Is waiting for cards the only way you can get Favours? This seems like it will make the game quite irritating :-(

    I'm sorry you were caught off guard. It's happened to probably everyone using the forums here at least once. And yes, that kind of sucks. The mechanics of Fallen London aren't static, however, and are constantly evolving. Every holiday this is brought home to people who thought things would never change. It is the norm. If it really bothers you then I recommend either: not forgetting the forums, or finding a more static game. There's not much else to be done.

    Your other complaint though, goes straight to the heart of the opportunity deck. The obvious answer is that a player isn't supposed to get them so fast. The opportunity deck exists for good reason. It allows FBG to widen the potential pacing of potential story arcs, the rewards potential of stories, and create variation in anticipation/excitement when drawing.

    If all stories were storylets, then the per-action would have to be super-tight. Like, "directly linked to your stat" tight. Otherwise everyone would just do each story once, and then do the most profitable thing thereafter. As it is, the variation in card rewards means, some you will use (because they are always profitable), and others will be discarded (allowing spare actions to use in storylets). Favors are super-duper-profitable. Some go as high as 4.13 Epa! That's crazy high. If they were pinned, the entire economy would implode.

    It also throttles progression granularly; limiting the rate you can increase Renown and forcing you to face real opportunity costs to prove your loyalty. If you turn favors to Renown (or just spend them), then the conflicts aren't really a big problem.

    From a RPing standpoint, the inability to grind favors makes sense. And from a wealth/progression standpoint, the Favors/Renown system is just hugely-out-of-control-profitable.

    I'm sorry you hate it, but... it may be better thought out then first glances make it appear.

    Cecil wrote:
    Nigel Overstreet wrote:
    EDIT: Also, for those curious why the Connected cards are all now non-discardable and do not give any Favours, please see this discussion about the topic from the Criminals discussion back in September: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic20433-favours-and-renown-criminals.aspx?Page=6

    My oh my, in that discussion you're so incredibly articulate and eloquent. Have you anything more insights on the matter?
    edited by Cecil on 3/25/2016


    Just wanted to point out, that FBG seems to have changed some of their ideas about having all conflict cards be high end (possibly as a result of that thread). The Orphans/Docks card, shows that at least not all will wipe out a connection.
    edited by MrBurnside on 3/26/2016
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    Grenem
    Grenem
    Posts: 2067

    3/26/2016
    MrBurnside wrote:

    I'm sorry you were caught off guard. It's happened to probably everyone using the forums here at least once. And yes, that kind of sucks. The mechanics of Fallen London aren't static, however, and are constantly evolving. Every holiday this is brought home to people who thought things would never change. It is the norm. If it really bothers you then I recommend either: not forgetting the forums, or finding a more static game. There's not much else to be done.

    Your other complaint though, goes straight to the heart of the opportunity deck. The obvious answer is that a player isn't supposed to get them so fast. The opportunity deck exists for good reason. It allows FBG to widen the potential pacing of potential story arcs, the rewards potential of stories, and create variation in anticipation/excitement when drawing.

    If all stories were storylets, then the per-action would have to be super-tight. Like, "directly linked to your stat" tight. Otherwise everyone would just do each story once, and then do the most profitable thing thereafter. As it is, the variation in card rewards means, some you will use (because they are always profitable), and others will be discarded (allowing spare actions to use in storylets). Favors are super-duper-profitable. Some go as high as 4.13 Epa! That's crazy high. If they were pinned, the entire economy would implode.

    It also throttles progression granularly; limiting the rate you can increase Renown and forcing you to face real opportunity costs to prove your loyalty. If you turn favors to Renown (or just spend them), then the conflicts aren't really a big problem.

    From a RPing standpoint, the inability to grind favors makes sense. And from a wealth/progression standpoint, the Favors/Renown system is just hugely-out-of-control-profitable.

    I'm sorry you hate it, but... it may be better thought out then first glances make it appear.

    Just wanted to point out, that FBG seems to have changed some of their ideas about having all conflict cards be high end (possibly as a result of that thread). The Orphans/Docks card, shows that at least not all will wipe out a connection.
    edited by MrBurnside on 3/26/2016

    Something that would be neat, but not gamebreaking, would be for each connected tree's 12.5 echo item being exchangable for 1 favor with said faction (or something else of similar price). Negative epa, but providing an accelerated option at a high price, if you're in a hurry for some reason to gain a handful of favors. It even makes textual sense: Favors in high places are high quality society favors, an antique mystery certainly sounds like something a tomb colonist would want, and so on.

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    Kirr
    Kirr
    Posts: 44

    3/28/2016
    Have to say I hope the undiscardable conflict system doesn't roll out to all conflict cards. Makes perfect sense to have Hell/Church, Criminals/Constables and Widows/Docks undiscardables, but are we going to get Rubbery Men/Constables? Urchins/Hell? Some of those conflicts were something of a stretch to begin with, which was quirky and unobjectionable when they were optional, but not when you're stuck with them for narrative reasons which are thin at best.
    edited by Kirr on 3/28/2016
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    Parelle
    Parelle
    Posts: 1084

    3/28/2016
    I'd like more of the Urchins/Docks style cards anyway as they increase Favours.

    --
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    pages from a dusty bookshop: a badly updated FL changelog | Useful Guidance and Explanations
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    James StAnthony
    James StAnthony
    Administrator
    Posts: 28

    3/24/2016
    We're starting making the changes to Connected Tomb-Colonist now! There may be some slight weirdness until we're finished, so please bear with us!
    +2 link
    Parelle
    Parelle
    Posts: 1084

    3/24/2016
    Meradine Heidenreich wrote:
    Has Going Gentle really been bumped up from locked at Society 5 to locked at Society 50?



    Confirmed: I didn't have Society 50, but had held the card in advance of the rework and then built up my connection to use it.

    --
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    Optimatum
    Optimatum
    Posts: 3666

    3/23/2016
    So for example a Journalist would receive, when implemented, both Bohemian Favours and Renown? Makes sense, I like it.

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    Nigel Overstreet
    Nigel Overstreet
    Posts: 1220

    3/24/2016
    As you can trade Favours for Renown, I think getting Favours once a week should be sufficient if you want more Renown with that faction.

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    Catherine Raymond
    Catherine Raymond
    Posts: 2518

    3/24/2016
    Decent idea, Rysiek, but how does that map to the more...arcane Professions, such as Correspondent? Or, for that matter, Doctor or Lawyer? In addition, both the Criminal and the Widow engage in criminal activities; should you get additional renown for each?

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    geremy
    geremy
    Posts: 70

    3/24/2016
    Huh, I had about 305 Connected, and I also only got 50 renown. Is renown capped at 50? I'll be sad if my massive Connected: The Great Game level gets squashed under a cap.
    edited by geremy on 3/24/2016

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    Guy Scrum
    Guy Scrum
    Posts: 197

    3/24/2016
    I got 1 renown and 7 favours for 26 connected. Looks like the formula this time is something like favours = connected / 3 rounded up with a cap at 7 (same as before), and renown = (connected - 21) / 4 rounded down with a cap at 50, so 221 connected should get you maxed out renown.

    If this is right, then the formula is based off of your connected level rather than your connected change points, so you get way more bang for your buck at higher connected levels until you reach the cap. Still seems like a weirdly regressive way of doing things, but oh well.

    (For context, see my previous posts here and here. I'll drop this now.)
    edited by Guy Scrum on 3/24/2016

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    Parelle
    Parelle
    Posts: 1084

    3/25/2016
    NiteBrite wrote:
    Did this change happen? I'm looking in my contacts menu on myself and it still says I have 23 levels of connected: the tomb colonists which is as many as I have always had. I don't see the word renown in there, although I do have favors too. That's a bit confusing.
    edited by NiteBrite on 3/25/2016


    If you've connected 23, you might not have enough for a level of Renown; I don't remember the formula.

    --
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    Nigel Overstreet
    Nigel Overstreet
    Posts: 1220

    3/25/2016
    NiteBrite wrote:
    That's not the issue really. The question I'm asking is why is the Connected quality still there? Shouldn't it have gone away?
    The quality sticks around for a few days afterward until all the kinks are worked out of the conversion. Give it a week or so.

    EDIT: Also, for those curious why the Connected cards are all now non-discardable and do not give any Favours, please see this discussion about the topic from the Criminals discussion back in September: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic20433-favours-and-renown-criminals.aspx?Page=6
    edited by Nigel Overstreet on 3/25/2016

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    Nigel Overstreet
    Nigel Overstreet
    Posts: 1220

    3/24/2016
    James StAnthony wrote:
    As some of you have noticed, the Connected Tomb-Colonist rework is now finished and live!
    Out of curiosity, which Connection is slated for an upgrade next?

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    Nigel Overstreet
    Nigel Overstreet
    Posts: 1220

    3/25/2016
    Cecil wrote:
    So uh. At the moment. No conflict cards give favours.
    I mentioned this about the Criminal conflict card a while back and most people's belief was that Favours should only ever be used for echo grinding and there is no sense in getting Renown. That's not really how I like to play, but given that the most common piece of advice for Connections was "Nuke them all; Clear your deck" I don't think we'll be seeing further options for gaining Favours with the other factions.

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    Grenem
    Grenem
    Posts: 2067

    3/28/2016
    Kirr wrote:
    Parelle wrote:
    I'd like more of the Urchins/Docks style cards anyway as they increase Favours.


    For some reason I haven't drawn that card yet - but if I've got the correct impression from various posts, that would indeed be a good format for the less... implacable conflicts. Do you know if it's discardable?

    It was. Can't say about is, but it was, once, after the patch, so it probably is.

    The minor conflicts it makes sense for siding with one faction to pay out in a roughly balanced manner, while in the major ones each faction feels it's your moral imperative to help their side. I also think we should have some mix ones- where one faction is far more invested than the other.

    Hell vs. the church, for instance.

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    Kaigen
    Kaigen
    Posts: 530

    3/29/2016
    Kirr wrote:
    Parelle wrote:
    I'd like more of the Urchins/Docks style cards anyway as they increase Favours.


    For some reason I haven't drawn that card yet - but if I've got the correct impression from various posts, that would indeed be a good format for the less... implacable conflicts. Do you know if it's discardable?
    The card has a narrow window in which it can be drawn, so that might explain why you haven't drawn it. You can only draw it if you have sufficient Connected: Urchins and no more or less than 3-4 Favours: The Docks.

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    Munk
    Munk
    Posts: 41

    3/30/2016
    Anne Auclair wrote:
    Anyone else still have their old Connected Tomb Colonists ranking?


    Aaayup. Came here to ask about it, as it seems my character hasn't actually undergone the changes.

    --
    London's greatest thief (until further notice).
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