Erika
Posts: 528
3/25/2016
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So uh. At the moment. No conflict cards give favours. So the only viable means, that we know of, for getting Favours: Tomb-Colonies is on the Tomb-Colonies faction card. I'm not including the faction pets as I strongly feel that the faction pets should not be integral to gaining favours, as only one pet is available at the time, it only encourages the bottleneck that is now Favours.
This means that if you want to trade a Collection of Curiosities, you need to draw the Tomb-Colonies faction card twice. Yay slightly more epa, but a big damnit to having to now draw the Tomb-Colonies card twice, meaning quite literally that the Collection of Curiosities grind is now twice as slow.
I've probably said this before, but one of, if not the, biggest issue I have with Favours is Favours being near exclusively card based (that and the faction items not giving out Favours like they used to Connections).
--
 Where the sun is hot, the moon is beautiful, and mysterious lights pass overhead while we all pretend to sleep.
Going on a fate expedition? I'm collecting data! Help me?
"Bottles of Oblivion" drunk in the name of content: 57
Catboxes (send more!) opened in the name of science: 1093
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
3/25/2016
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Cecil wrote:
So uh. At the moment. No conflict cards give favours. I mentioned this about the Criminal conflict card a while back and most people's belief was that Favours should only ever be used for echo grinding and there is no sense in getting Renown. That's not really how I like to play, but given that the most common piece of advice for Connections was "Nuke them all; Clear your deck" I don't think we'll be seeing further options for gaining Favours with the other factions.
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The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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Gonen
Posts: 817
3/25/2016
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Optimatum wrote:
The quirk polisher has appeared, requiring Watchful 250 to raise Melancholy and lower Daring.
Also there's now an option to raise Renown once at 15, but it's currently bugged and seems to be checking for Docks Renown and Favours mistakenly.
That the polisher which require to be level 12 from the begining, is it not?
--
 The Ashen Anesthesiologist - Paramount Londoner
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness.
The long journey to eccentricity:
On March 10th, 2018, reached 15 on all quirks, simultaneously. The Quirky Anesthesiologist
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Kalix
Posts: 50
3/25/2016
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Wow, I hate this already, and I didn't even know about the Collection of Curiosities needing a Favour, all of which I lost because I drew the Rubbery Man conflict card today with no warning (I tend to forget the forums exist, and the only game notification I saw recently was for the FL trailer). I also lost 750 nodules of Deep Amber...
I always used to discard that card anyway because I really don't want to leave even an imaginary person to die in a fire.
TLDR: I like Rubbery Men and Tomb Colonists, this new update seems hard to understand and irritating, is there any way around undiscardable cards?
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Meradine Heidenreich
Posts: 468
3/25/2016
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Kalix wrote:
Wow, I hate this already, ... I like Rubbery Men and Tomb Colonists, this new update seems hard to understand and irritating
Same here. The update also seems to have winnowed the selection of cards coming up. Has anyone else noticed this? Or was it just the luck of the draw?
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Meradine%20Heidenreich
The Starveling kit
Gobbled up the bit
of cheese on my tray ..
"O Weh!"
No plant battles, please.
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Erika
Posts: 528
3/25/2016
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Kalix wrote:
Wow, I hate this already, and I didn't even know about the Collection of Curiosities needing a Favour, all of which I lost because I drew the Rubbery Man conflict card today with no warning (I tend to forget the forums exist, and the only game notification I saw recently was for the FL trailer) I still think the banner really should still be updated with this information, as I suggested in the last thread, the app and the switch to Favours could both be mentioned in the banner. They're not mutually exclusive after all. The banner could even link to this thread for those that want to know what the change did: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic21981-tomb-colonist-favoursrenown-gain--uses.aspx
I would suggest this thread, but there's no changelog.
edited by Cecil on 3/25/2016
--
Where the sun is hot, the moon is beautiful, and mysterious lights pass overhead while we all pretend to sleep.
Going on a fate expedition? I'm collecting data! Help me?
"Bottles of Oblivion" drunk in the name of content: 57
Catboxes (send more!) opened in the name of science: 1093
Fancy a friend?
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Kalix
Posts: 50
3/25/2016
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I'm also not sure why you lose the opportunity to gain Favours at the Carnival after your Renown is above 5, if Renown doesn't go down? Is waiting for cards the only way you can get Favours? This seems like it will make the game quite irritating :-(
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Erika
Posts: 528
3/25/2016
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Kalix wrote:
I'm also not sure why you lose the opportunity to gain Favours at the Carnival after your Renown is above 5, if Renown doesn't go down? Is waiting for cards the only way you can get Favours? This seems like it will make the game quite irritating :-(
There's Mutton Island and once off things. But, so far as I'm aware, yes. Waiting for cards is the only way to get Favours. A few of us, myself included, are not happy about this.
--
Where the sun is hot, the moon is beautiful, and mysterious lights pass overhead while we all pretend to sleep.
Going on a fate expedition? I'm collecting data! Help me?
"Bottles of Oblivion" drunk in the name of content: 57
Catboxes (send more!) opened in the name of science: 1093
Fancy a friend?
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NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
3/25/2016
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Did this change happen? I'm looking in my contacts menu on myself and it still says I have 23 levels of connected: the tomb colonists which is as many as I have always had. I don't see the word renown in there, although I do have favors too. That's a bit confusing.
edited by NiteBrite on 3/25/2016
--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
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Parelle
Posts: 1084
3/25/2016
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NiteBrite wrote:
Did this change happen? I'm looking in my contacts menu on myself and it still says I have 23 levels of connected: the tomb colonists which is as many as I have always had. I don't see the word renown in there, although I do have favors too. That's a bit confusing.
edited by NiteBrite on 3/25/2016
If you've connected 23, you might not have enough for a level of Renown; I don't remember the formula.
--
Parelle, Lady Joseph Marlen. The Singular Librarian. A Midnighter, a Player of the Marvelous.
pages from a dusty bookshop: a badly updated FL changelog | Useful Guidance and Explanations
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The Master
Posts: 804
3/25/2016
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NiteBrite wrote:
Did this change happen? I'm looking in my contacts menu on myself and it still says I have 23 levels of connected: the tomb colonists which is as many as I have always had. I don't see the word renown in there, although I do have favors too. That's a bit confusing.
edited by NiteBrite on 3/25/2016
32 connections only gave me 2 renown, so it's completely possible you just didn't have enough connections to get renown.
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Lolwolfking
A very ruthless and daring doctor of the neath.
No more gift exchanges, im getting too many and I can barely hold these.
He has knowledge of a certain enigma, ask, you will get a clue.
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NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
3/25/2016
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The Master wrote:
NiteBrite wrote:
Did this change happen? I'm looking in my contacts menu on myself and it still says I have 23 levels of connected: the tomb colonists which is as many as I have always had. I don't see the word renown in there, although I do have favors too. That's a bit confusing.
edited by NiteBrite on 3/25/2016
32 connections only gave me 2 renown, so it's completely possible you just didn't have enough connections to get renown.
That's not the issue really. The question I'm asking is why is the Connected quality still there? Shouldn't it have gone away?
--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
3/25/2016
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NiteBrite wrote:
That's not the issue really. The question I'm asking is why is the Connected quality still there? Shouldn't it have gone away? The quality sticks around for a few days afterward until all the kinks are worked out of the conversion. Give it a week or so.
EDIT: Also, for those curious why the Connected cards are all now non-discardable and do not give any Favours, please see this discussion about the topic from the Criminals discussion back in September: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic20433-favours-and-renown-criminals.aspx?Page=6
edited by Nigel Overstreet on 3/25/2016
--
The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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Erika
Posts: 528
3/25/2016
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Nigel Overstreet wrote:
EDIT: Also, for those curious why the Connected cards are all now non-discardable and do not give any Favours, please see this discussion about the topic from the Criminals discussion back in September: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic20433-favours-and-renown-criminals.aspx?Page=6
My oh my, in that discussion you're so incredibly articulate and eloquent. Have you anything more insights on the matter?
edited by Cecil on 3/25/2016
--
Where the sun is hot, the moon is beautiful, and mysterious lights pass overhead while we all pretend to sleep.
Going on a fate expedition? I'm collecting data! Help me?
"Bottles of Oblivion" drunk in the name of content: 57
Catboxes (send more!) opened in the name of science: 1093
Fancy a friend?
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MrBurnside
Posts: 188
3/26/2016
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Kalix wrote:
Wow, I hate this already, and I didn't even know about the Collection of Curiosities needing a Favour, all of which I lost because I drew the Rubbery Man conflict card today with no warning (I tend to forget the forums exist, and the only game notification I saw recently was for the FL trailer). I also lost 750 nodules of Deep Amber...
I always used to discard that card anyway because I really don't want to leave even an imaginary person to die in a fire.
TLDR: I like Rubbery Men and Tomb Colonists, this new update seems hard to understand and irritating, is there any way around undiscardable cards?
Kalix wrote:
I'm also not sure why you lose the opportunity to gain Favours at the Carnival after your Renown is above 5, if Renown doesn't go down? Is waiting for cards the only way you can get Favours? This seems like it will make the game quite irritating :-(
I'm sorry you were caught off guard. It's happened to probably everyone using the forums here at least once. And yes, that kind of sucks. The mechanics of Fallen London aren't static, however, and are constantly evolving. Every holiday this is brought home to people who thought things would never change. It is the norm. If it really bothers you then I recommend either: not forgetting the forums, or finding a more static game. There's not much else to be done.
Your other complaint though, goes straight to the heart of the opportunity deck. The obvious answer is that a player isn't supposed to get them so fast. The opportunity deck exists for good reason. It allows FBG to widen the potential pacing of potential story arcs, the rewards potential of stories, and create variation in anticipation/excitement when drawing.
If all stories were storylets, then the per-action would have to be super-tight. Like, "directly linked to your stat" tight. Otherwise everyone would just do each story once, and then do the most profitable thing thereafter. As it is, the variation in card rewards means, some you will use (because they are always profitable), and others will be discarded (allowing spare actions to use in storylets). Favors are super-duper-profitable. Some go as high as 4.13 Epa! That's crazy high. If they were pinned, the entire economy would implode.
It also throttles progression granularly; limiting the rate you can increase Renown and forcing you to face real opportunity costs to prove your loyalty. If you turn favors to Renown (or just spend them), then the conflicts aren't really a big problem.
From a RPing standpoint, the inability to grind favors makes sense. And from a wealth/progression standpoint, the Favors/Renown system is just hugely-out-of-control-profitable.
I'm sorry you hate it, but... it may be better thought out then first glances make it appear.
Cecil wrote:
Nigel Overstreet wrote:
EDIT: Also, for those curious why the Connected cards are all now non-discardable and do not give any Favours, please see this discussion about the topic from the Criminals discussion back in September: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic20433-favours-and-renown-criminals.aspx?Page=6
My oh my, in that discussion you're so incredibly articulate and eloquent. Have you anything more insights on the matter?
edited by Cecil on 3/25/2016
Just wanted to point out, that FBG seems to have changed some of their ideas about having all conflict cards be high end (possibly as a result of that thread). The Orphans/Docks card, shows that at least not all will wipe out a connection.
edited by MrBurnside on 3/26/2016
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Kalix
Posts: 50
3/26/2016
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MrBurnside, thank you for the helpful explanation :-)
I actually calmed right down on getting the Docks and Gracious Widow card, where I could pick a third option. I haven't been thinking in terms of Echoes per action really. I also noticed a non-violent option on the Implausible Penance card (can't remember what, but it got me 1300 Glim), which might be new? It's nice, anyway.
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
3/26/2016
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I think it's a matter of morality on whether they think it's an obligation or a geniune choice, or how self-righteous they are about the option.
For the tomb-colonists vs. society, i'm pretty sure both think you have a moral obligation to their side, so breaking the moral obligation will cost you nearly all their debts. For constable versus criminals, this is no little betrayal in either's eyes, so again- we have no debt of honor to those who lack it.
The only real exception is the docks vs. the widow, but i think that one's just because of precedents- that's how it was implemented before the change, that one side would lose a lot of CP and the other would gain a little.
edited by Grenem on 3/26/2016
--
Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
3/26/2016
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MrBurnside wrote:
I'm sorry you were caught off guard. It's happened to probably everyone using the forums here at least once. And yes, that kind of sucks. The mechanics of Fallen London aren't static, however, and are constantly evolving. Every holiday this is brought home to people who thought things would never change. It is the norm. If it really bothers you then I recommend either: not forgetting the forums, or finding a more static game. There's not much else to be done.
Your other complaint though, goes straight to the heart of the opportunity deck. The obvious answer is that a player isn't supposed to get them so fast. The opportunity deck exists for good reason. It allows FBG to widen the potential pacing of potential story arcs, the rewards potential of stories, and create variation in anticipation/excitement when drawing.
If all stories were storylets, then the per-action would have to be super-tight. Like, "directly linked to your stat" tight. Otherwise everyone would just do each story once, and then do the most profitable thing thereafter. As it is, the variation in card rewards means, some you will use (because they are always profitable), and others will be discarded (allowing spare actions to use in storylets). Favors are super-duper-profitable. Some go as high as 4.13 Epa! That's crazy high. If they were pinned, the entire economy would implode.
It also throttles progression granularly; limiting the rate you can increase Renown and forcing you to face real opportunity costs to prove your loyalty. If you turn favors to Renown (or just spend them), then the conflicts aren't really a big problem.
From a RPing standpoint, the inability to grind favors makes sense. And from a wealth/progression standpoint, the Favors/Renown system is just hugely-out-of-control-profitable.
I'm sorry you hate it, but... it may be better thought out then first glances make it appear.
Just wanted to point out, that FBG seems to have changed some of their ideas about having all conflict cards be high end (possibly as a result of that thread). The Orphans/Docks card, shows that at least not all will wipe out a connection.
edited by MrBurnside on 3/26/2016
Something that would be neat, but not gamebreaking, would be for each connected tree's 12.5 echo item being exchangable for 1 favor with said faction (or something else of similar price). Negative epa, but providing an accelerated option at a high price, if you're in a hurry for some reason to gain a handful of favors. It even makes textual sense: Favors in high places are high quality society favors, an antique mystery certainly sounds like something a tomb colonist would want, and so on.
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Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
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Jermaine Vendredi
Posts: 588
3/27/2016
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Just received one of the non-discardable conflict cards (tomb colonists/rubberies). Since I gathered from another thread that these only appear if favours are at 7, I spent a TCF in the hope of having it disappear. I now have a shed-load of moon pearls (which were already overflowing) and can confirm that the card disappears after the final favour has evaporated.
NB I did not check back after every event, only after the first, so it may vanish somewhere en route.
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No plant battles, please.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Jermion
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Hazel
Posts: 69
3/28/2016
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Is this why I haven't been drawing "Call in favors in the Flit?" Because I've been waiting on that one a while, and it's starting to be a bit of a pain.
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"I can walk in the Mirror-Marches at the edge of dreams as easily as I might promenade in Tyrant's Gardens."
Skymaw & Belle Dame
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