Spielesocke
Posts: 29
2/9/2016
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After playing Sunless Sea and Fallen London (and still playing them) there are so many questions. First of all, this game reminds me on Lovecraft but not the Cthulhu Mythos. More of the dream quest of unknown kadath with all those talking cats and so on.
So i start with a simple questions: What are tomb colonists? It seems Fallen Londoners can't die or they can i am not sure because as captain of the sunless sea i can die of mortal wounds but fallen londoners just seem to get older and older until they get tomb colonists or so i think.
so my theory is that people can die of wounds but not from getting older. But then there are tomb colonists with mortal wounds that are still some kind of alive i think, like zombies.
then there is that furious device at the southwestern part of of the zea. what is it good for. is it just like some kind of a sun which just sometimes pretends it would lighten the sunless caverns?
and the last one for now: what is it with the hell? there seems to be a directly conncection to the hell and people out of hell are also part of London but are they mortal? can they die? it seems so that they can be wounded, that they are all some kind of anarchists, but i am not sure and that they have the power to steal souls (which also apes have) so i don't know if that is a big deal in London.
i ask because i think the world of fallen london is great to play in with the next Pen and Paper group and i want to know a few more details i couln't figure out.
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
2/9/2016
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Tomb Colonists: Put it this way - there's a lot of life energy floating around in the Neath. That means that, sometimes, a wound that would kill you instead leaves you very, very badly hurt - really almost close to dead - but not quite actually permanently dead. Mind you, that doesn't mean you'll be as healthy as you were before - you might still have a bunch of horrible ragged scars and dents and oozing bits, but there's enough life going spare that you'll still be upright and mobile. That means there's a lot of unreasonably old and/or badly-injured people walking around, getting stains on the furniture and putting people off their dinner. Thus, the socially acceptable thing to do is wrap them up in bandages and ship them off to the Tomb-Colonies.
Oh, and the reason zee-captains still die when they're badly wounded? Well, some wounds are naturally still going to be fatal - depends how badly you're hurt. Also, the zee has its own weird energy, which cancels out some of the spare life energy - that's its own mystery, which we don't know an enormous amount about yet.
The Dawn Machine is a major player in recent lore - search for it and/or the New Sequence for discussion of it.
The Iron Republic isn't Hell itself - Hell is further west, up the river, where our ships can't go. The Iron Republic is a collaboration between Hell and some anarchists to create an experimental society without any consistent laws - even laws of physics. There are still laws, but they're essentially satirical, and they change almost constantly. How do they do it? Who knows! The devils themselves are another deep mystery of the lore - suffice to say they're not what they seem, and very, very hard to kill.
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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TheThirdPolice
Posts: 609
2/9/2016
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It takes a grievous wound or special skill to kill someone on land. Don't worry. You are likely to survive for a long time, wrapped in bandages, losing your ability to move and speak. After enough strange aeons, a few find an alternative transformation — or sacrifice?
Londoners built the Dawn Machine. We regret reading Voltaire. It lives to order and enslave, just as the real sun does.
Hell is roses and origami and royalty. Hell is buzzing and horns and revolution. Slay a devil, and you'll find something inside. We do not know how devils use souls, but then, how do we?
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Lover of Flawed Souls
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Remedan
Posts: 61
2/10/2016
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Speaking of death... When I briefly died recently, I had a dream-like experience of playing chess with a boatman. Does that mean that some sort of an afterlife is confirmed to exist in this universe? Or was that just a delirium-induced dream?
edited by Remedan on 2/10/2016
--
 My Neathly Alter Ego -- Still trying to make some sense of it all.
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Spielesocke
Posts: 29
2/16/2016
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NathanielSterben wrote:
there are some mentioning about what happens when you die in the sidebar snippets, look at "What happens when you die in Fallen London?" and "Why is Hesperidean Cider so sought-after?" as they mention what happens due to old age and disease
ok i came to a conclusion:
So here is the incomplete list of ways how a fallen londoner dies permanently:
- give jack enough time to slice you into little pieces
- Fire (if it is hellish hot enough)
- beheading
- old age
- (not sure) starvation
- poison (but not every kind will do, only very special deliveries)
- explosions (no, no, not the pistol kind of explosion, more the urchin captured cannon kind of explosion or the crazy zea captain kind)
- sunlight (yes, fallen londoners are a lot like vampires in that way, but light loving vampires, don't let them grap your mirror cache-boxes)
- illness (but death would be only the nicest kind of ending - there are many strange diseases around)
- getting eaten by a zeabeast or just getting eaten by anything with large teeth and acid in its stomach
- Acid (strong enough, very certain)
- a wooden stick to the heart (maybe, would prove that vampire theory: do not try this at home!)
Ways a devil permanently die:
- beheading (have to prove that)
- strange and very complicated rituals (there is a chance devils just made them up)
but ask yourself why you should even try to kill a devil. they are nice ladies and gentlemen. polite, well educated, and they have no interest in bloodshed. it would be interesting to know what need they have for human souls. maybe they need it for reproduction, maybe just as a status symbol (like whoever has the most souls is the devil with highest ranking in hell) hopefully it is something important and not something trivial like a stamp collection.
Killing a citizen of the elder continent permanently:
- maybe they die by illness. there are some strange diseases there. Souls burning through the body or something like this
edited by Spielesocke on 2/16/2016
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Spielesocke
Posts: 29
2/14/2016
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i know Sara. i was just joking around. Yes in matter of game mechanics whether in fallen london nor in sunless sea it changes a lot to lose the soul.
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
2/12/2016
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Illness is still problematic in the Neath, and you can still die of injury if you're seriously maimed.
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Charlotte_de_Witte
Posts: 360
2/11/2016
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Remedan wrote:
Speaking of death... When I briefly died recently, I had a dream-like experience of playing chess with a boatman. Does that mean that some sort of an afterlife is confirmed to exist in this universe? Or was that just a delirium-induced dream?
edited by Remedan on 2/10/2016
That is a tricky question. Thanatos and Hypnos were supposedly twins, I guess it makes sense that sometimes it's a little hard to tell them apart? 
In many ways I think the Neath might be considered an afterlife of sorts (in so much as it is both literally and thematically an Underworld) - I mean Hell is only just up the river.
I think it's left up to you really how you want to interpret the boat-man experience. Which (sort of) segues into what others have said above.
From what I can see: People die but then then get better. Death is no less real (or painful/debilitating), only less permanent. A general guideline in the Neath, not a law. Not staying dead appears to almost as much a matter of willpower and patience as the amount of damage that was done to your body. I imagine that getting eaten might well permanently kill you, but even that doesn't always work out...
(Maybe getting set on fire might work?)
I think it's reasonable to assume people die from old age quite frequently, it perhaps doesn't always last that long. No wonder Tomb-Colonists can be a little crotchety.
As for the Dawn Machine, there is as Sir Frederick said lots of discussion about on the Forum. But I suppose a shameless self-referencing link wouldn't hurt any
There was a very good discussion about talking animals not long ago but I can't seem to find it- Maybe someone else will have better luck?
[Anyway; here's some links to excellent sites for FL lore ]
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edited by Charlotte_de_Witte on 2/11/2016
--
"Do one thing for me, Sredni Vashtar."
Social actions welcome. Only, send me dupes if you need help with the Affluent Photographer please, I like the bats! [And boxed kitties, and extreme gardening]- Thank-you!
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Gonen
Posts: 817
2/12/2016
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Anatomy lessons are still quite common. Now we don't even need to find bodies to dissect them (actually, it's even more difficult to find those now).
Broken bones do not mend well if not treated correctly. One may have deformation of broken limb if healed without adequate fixation.
Pain, acute and chronic is still an issue.
Unexplained illness can still hurt and permanently kill you, as Sara mentioned. We still do not know what cause those. Perhaps the bad smog and airs of the Neath. There are quite the few academic works, published on the surface the past two decades, indicating the cause of most illness to be from tiny entities we call Bacteria. Not so harmless as first thought. There are even several new techniques to protect one from these pathogens, causing your body to learn how to defeat the enemy in a safe way ("Vaccine").
There are some who are born with illness passed from generation to generation. No breakthrough there yet, but I myself take great interest in the work of the Rubbery people(?) and find some unique and interesting elements there.
edited by Gonen on 2/12/2016
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 The Ashen Anesthesiologist - Paramount Londoner
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness.
The long journey to eccentricity:
On March 10th, 2018, reached 15 on all quirks, simultaneously. The Quirky Anesthesiologist
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
2/12/2016
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There are a lot of hangings, though I doubt that's permanent considering one of them winks at you at some point.
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Spielesocke
Posts: 29
2/13/2016
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Remedan wrote:
Do animals (intelligent or otherwise) also have the benefit of being harder to kill?
EDIT: I've just had another thought. Is there a death penalty in Fallen London? What's the chosen method of execution?
edited by Remedan on 2/12/2016
No animals do not have that benefit, at least Rattus faber have not. Its said that they die permanently. Which is horrible because i had to kill so many of them as they infested my house. I wanted to talk them out of this whole thing but it was not that easy. Rats are people, too.
And as i stumbled into smiles recently: yes, he kills people. he got a few poor fellows and as i only found parts from this people i am sure they won't come back. I think i made some impression. He is eager to see me again.
i don't know if cats die so easy but then they do have 9 lifes after all.
and the last time i knocked at heavens door the boatsman did not want to let me go. Anyway, i also think that the people i might have thrown into that dark water to get to life again won't come back either. (i never did that)
So i got some answers. there are more questions but that is the thing in fallen london.. there always are
What do sorrow spiders do with the stolen eyes and do i really want to know? should i trust that nice devil who sents letters to me?
and will i ever be able to finally steal a ship from the khanate, crash into the london docks while singing old songs of freedom..
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
2/13/2016
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You will find out what Sorrow Spiders do with the stolen eyes later in the game. You cannot currently steal ships from the Khanate, though, and whether you wish to get friendly with that devil depends on how fond you are of your soul. Soullessness isn't really a big deal, but a lot of players like keeping theirs for character reasons.
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edited by Sara Hysaro on 2/13/2016
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Spielesocke
Posts: 29
2/13/2016
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Sara Hysaro wrote:
Soullessness isn't really a big deal
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edited by Sara Hysaro on 2/13/2016
that is what a devil would say
and if i can chose to give my soul to a devil or an ape its a really hard choise.
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
2/13/2016
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I will admit that it is what a devil would say, but I was speaking in terms of game mechanics. For now it's just the devils.
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Spielesocke
Posts: 29
2/9/2016
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so i thought that people with the bright yellow eyes were devils, as the one which is sitting on this special volcanic isle in the zea and as she was afraid of some things and if someone is afraid he or she has something to lose.
And as i read out ouf your information people only sometimes end up being tomb colonists. I've read the neathbow so i know something about transformation.
And tomb colonists seem to die if they lose their heads if i got this right. I stumbled upon an event where this was happening.
and i still didn't find any information about the dawn machine that are more than cryptic. Ok, faction of London build it but why?
there is this weird love story between the sun (the real one) and the bazaar but why then building a decoy sun? is it what london droves underground?
What i also don't get is why if love storys are crucial to the bazar, why i can't sell any in sunless sea to the bazaar.
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
2/10/2016
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NathanielSterben wrote:
im fairly sure it does say somewhere in fallen london that you can die from getting older, and that the only exception to this is to use hesperidian cider
It's implied. Not outright stated, but it's pretty clear being a colonist is a slow decline until you're either dead, or the price of greek mythology immortality from nasty gods. (an insect)
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Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
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Spielesocke
Posts: 29
2/10/2016
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yes i thought that. but it is slow. As far as i got into the streets of fallen london there is much murder around. It is said that many constables died in their duty and sometimes there are dark missions about assassination so i think that the streets of london are not as safe as it first seems to me.
I stumbled over another details which was not fully clear to me. The cats and other animals seem to be able to speak and exchange secrets. and i am so eager to hear more about the dawn machine. Also my Captain is eager to get a Khanate Ship (for some charity work, you know)
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
2/10/2016
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Spielesocke wrote:
yes i thought that. but it is slow. As far as i got into the streets of fallen london there is much murder around. It is said that many constables died in their duty and sometimes there are dark missions about assassination so i think that the streets of london are not as safe as it first seems to me.
I stumbled over another details which was not fully clear to me. The cats and other animals seem to be able to speak and exchange secrets. and i am so eager to hear more about the dawn machine. Also my Captain is eager to get a Khanate Ship (for some charity work, you know)
Most murder is temporary in the neath. This includes as a zailor, but there the consequence is usually a fate worse than death, or at least enough to make you quit work as a zailor.
Unless it's specified otherwise, mentally replace murder with maiming. death is an inconvenience, and many constables die- and die frequently.
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Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
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Spielesocke
Posts: 29
2/12/2016
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thanks for all the links. So dying is not a permanent thing. If it says i shuld assassinate somebody i can be sure he will be around once again after some time? So that Jack O Smiles must be a very sad murderer
And yes, i want to know more about that speaking cats, too. At least i know that i have to be very careful if i talk to pets in fallen London.
And when Londoners don't die, why do they even bother that they've lost troops in the fight against hell? shouldn't they be like healthy back a few days later?
I was sure about that a beheaded tomb colonist stays dead...
And also it seems to be like DEAD in the neath gets more deadly if you die more often. As that chess player really wants to keep you there. (or me. I shouln't look into mirrows so often)
So: how can you kill someone in fallen london so that he or she stays dead? I want to know if there is something i should fear (right now getting crazy seems to be more likely)
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Tyrone
Posts: 79
2/12/2016
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There are fates worse than death in the Neath, and the devils are not inexperienced in dealing such ends.
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Spielesocke
Posts: 29
2/12/2016
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and btw: if i can't die or it is nearly impossible to die if i am not cruising the zea i really bother with the thought what might happen if a sorrow spider steals my eye. Can i attach it to my body again? or is it gone, digested from a vile spider who lurks in my very house? Now i can feel the panic. so many question.. so much horror
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
2/12/2016
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I think beheading is often (but not a guaranteed) way of killing someone permanently. Cutting them to pieces, digestion, and other deaths that make it hard to recover the body also work. But even then, people from the elder continent will be fine.
And Devils didn't let the casualties stay dead. They took them all prisoner.
edited by suinicide on 2/12/2016
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A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Remedan
Posts: 61
2/12/2016
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Talkes wrote:
Tyrone wrote:
you can't really do much if you lose a body part.
I quite wonder about that.
Considering Neath's generally lax rules for deathlike conditions, you could find a decent surgeon and go all Frankenstein, swapping the replacements for your missing body part till you find one that fits. You might need a lot of spares though...
Now that's a really good idea for a story. You lose an arm and go on a search for a replacement. It probably would have to be fresh for it to work. And maybe you'd need some really unique and experimental drug to suppress the immune response. That way you can explain why not everybody can do it.
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My Neathly Alter Ego -- Still trying to make some sense of it all.
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Spielesocke
Posts: 29
2/12/2016
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Why are there still doctors, like surgeons and physicians in fallen london. As there is not much to worry about, there shouldn't be any (or only a few) around...
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Charlotte_de_Witte
Posts: 360
2/12/2016
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Here's that talking animals thread.Knew it was about somewhere
An attempt at possible answers:-
Jack indeed does get very frustrated;
Poor Jack's a-cold
In a city where death can be temporary, lunatic murderers are not treated with especial respect. Jack-of-Smiles is still dangerous. If he slices you into proper collops, you're not coming back. But a throat-cutting spree is not very much worse than a wasp's nest. It must be vexing for him.
Perhaps the boatman is only tired of losing chess to you; so much as he is keen to keep hold of you? Or perhaps he's fed up of having to make all those return trips? But I think you are right in that the more time you have been killed and the more damage you have accumulated in all those deaths the more likely you might be to die permanently.
I think the only thing that's 'guaranteed' to kill is Cantigaster Venom, and then only if it's genuine.
Sorrow-spider are horrible and the things they do eyes even worse. Stamp on them!!
The only thing I can think of to replace missing body parts might be Red Science? (The stuff the Rubbery-men get up to.)
I agree a Frankenstein's monster inspired story could be a lot of fun
Doctors are still about I think, for one to stop you from dyeing in the first place, and then also to help fix you up if do. Maybe there is call for palliative care for Tomb-Colonist? (I think remember reading about one with a nurse?)
I think especially in the cases of diseases, you would still want someone to cure it even if it was less likely to kill you. I think it comes down to difference between living forever in good health and living forever rotting in horrible pain. Doctors might have more to do rather than less?
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edited by Charlotte_de_Witte on 2/12/2016
--
"Do one thing for me, Sredni Vashtar."
Social actions welcome. Only, send me dupes if you need help with the Affluent Photographer please, I like the bats! [And boxed kitties, and extreme gardening]- Thank-you!
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Charlotte%20de%20Witte
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