Toran
Posts: 193
2/3/2016
|
In the ongoing Noman threads, Chris said both of the following:
You can expect Hallowmas, at least, to be significantly different this year.
If you have specific questions about upcoming content, ask on the forums. We won't always be able to answer.
I know it's extremely early, but I'm curious about what the Failbetter team is thinking in terms of Hallowmas changes.
Also because I love any additions to the festivals/holidays in FL. They're the awesomest.
--
I have a Hepta-Goat. Do you have a Hepta-Goat?
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Anthony%20Toran
|
|
|
+5
link
|
Chris Gardiner
Administrator
Posts: 539
2/4/2016
|
It's early days, yet, so exact changes aren't decided. However, we want to retire the old player confessions system and replace it with something that involves a deeper interaction. Our plans might change, but that's our current thinking.
|
|
|
+11
link
|
NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
2/4/2016
|
I agree an_ocelot, I got hurt by the same thing. I really had no idea how big of an obligation I had taken on. It wouldn't have been a problem if the mechanics had been the same as the year before where confession sending time was extremely short, like five days, but it got extended way out that year and things grew out of control from there.
I still had fun despite the problems, but it was definitely a problem. I can see future changes downplaying the social aspect of Hallowmas, but at the same time I hope they don't get rid of it completely. Community coordination was one of the best aspects of the event even if it did have it's issues. It was like, we all got together for a once a year games night where we played a game within the game and that's fun. I just wish that the game didn't rely solely on the community and the individual player to know their limits and self regulate while also not giving us all the information we needed.
I'd kind of like to see an expanded social side, like imagine if we could have a proper games night, one with lots of people involved. These people volunteer to take on the role of "soup food preparation place", another group becomes the "animal/cat shelter", and so on until we're all in a specialty. Like wearing masks on the isle of Visage, I'd like something like that. It could then become an Scavenger Hunt for players to search out their contacts and find one person in each "role" and like get a stamp on their bingo card or whatever. I'd like that sort of detail or complex but not overly stressful community project. Maybe there is a Great Works project, and it needs the contributions from a great variety of friends. A ball that could be passed around and grown as it touches each new person. Something like that could be really cool. Or like a murder mystery played against actual people, like a game of mafia. That too could be fun.
edited by NiteBrite on 2/4/2016
--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
|
|
|
+7
link
|
Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
Posts: 1372
2/4/2016
|
I found Hallowmas pretty un-fun because, thanks to the thing where the messages tab only shows the last X messages, I didn't realize just how many people had asked to hear my confession, and then I felt obligated to give them all my confession because I'd foolishly held myself out as available for so long. So it was pretty grindy and stressful--I mean, obviously I like helping people or I wouldn't do the Cider thing, but yeah, it was a lot of grinding.
The NPC confessions were really awesome, though.
--
Social Actions: send them to Kade Carrion (she/her; no Tournament of Lilies, please). an_ocelot has gone NORTH and cannot benefit from social actions!
Possibly-Useful Things: Spreadsheets and hints and link collections, oh my.
|
|
|
+6
link
|
thedeadlymoose
Posts: 214
2/4/2016
|
Chris Gardiner wrote:
It's early days, yet, so exact changes aren't decided. However, we want to retire the old player confessions system and replace it with something that involves a deeper interaction. Our plans might change, but that's our current thinking.
I think this sounds exciting!
I am in the possibly curious camp of thinking Hallowmas was great, and a great experience, and also that it does need an overhaul.
Also seconding the people who don't want to see the old confessions go away without giving us some benefit, though -- those represent a lot of blood, sweat and tears on our part! (Or at least a little bit, for some players.) But aside from that, bring on the future.
(Emphatically not seconding the people who felt that the max spirit reward was cheapened because you could get it 'merely' by a shit-ton of hard work and planning. I literally started setting alarms to wake up every three hours for half a week so I could accept all my confessions for the benefit of other people. I did get the max spirit award on three characters but it sure as hell was not cheap!* I don't particularly care for the perspective that says that if you can accomplish something by working very, very hard and also intelligently plan, it loses its worth.)
(*maybe it was cheap if you played Hallowmas using The Anti-Social Method, sure, but most everyone I talked to didn't. And I sure didn't~)
Thank you for giving us some insight into your collective thoughts! 
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/Eris~Jay
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/Red~Rose
|
|
|
+6
link
|
maleclypse
Posts: 259
2/4/2016
|
thedeadlymoose wrote:
[
(Emphatically not seconding the people who felt that the max spirit reward was cheapened because you could get it 'merely' by a shit-ton of hard work and planning. I literally started setting alarms to wake up every three hours for half a week so I could accept all my confessions for the benefit of other people. I did get the max spirit award on three characters but it sure as hell was not cheap!* I don't particularly care for the perspective that says that if you can accomplish something by working very, very hard and also intelligently plan, it loses its worth.)
(*maybe it was cheap if you played Hallowmas using The Anti-Social Method, sure, but most everyone I talked to didn't. And I sure didn't~)
Thank you for giving us some insight into your collective thoughts!
I tend to agree,I don't like playing games that pyramid schemes a few players to the top over and over again. If I want real life I can just work at any Fortune 500. I like a game that sit's there and say's "hey if you really want this but you haven't been putting time into every single event, maybe this is the only thing that speaks to you. Well you go ahead and put in tons of sweat and tears and lack of sleep and for one day you can be just as good as the kings and queens of Fallen London."
Because honestly if the only winners I ever see are the same five people eventually it's going to feel like I'm working to support them not playing a game I enjoy where I happen to support other people.
--
Maintaining a controlling interest in my soul requires a pretty constant negotiation between the various shareholder interests. Thankfully the Fingerkings 23% control makes a pretty good foil to unite the other factions enough to get to 51%.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Maleclypse
|
|
|
+5
link
|
Gonen
Posts: 817
2/4/2016
|
Psyche Labyrinth wrote:
Sigh. Things always get harder when I finally decide to do them...
Yep. Things change.
Remember everybody the time it was easy to for Nitebrite to grind that Noman?
--
 The Ashen Anesthesiologist - Paramount Londoner
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness.
The long journey to eccentricity:
On March 10th, 2018, reached 15 on all quirks, simultaneously. The Quirky Anesthesiologist
|
|
|
+5
link
|
NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
2/4/2016
|
Gonen wrote:
Psyche Labyrinth wrote:
Sigh. Things always get harder when I finally decide to do them...
Yep. Things change.
Remember everybody the time it was easy to for Nitebrite to grind that Noman?
ggggggggghhhhhhhrhr
--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
|
|
|
+5
link
|
Juno
Posts: 63
2/4/2016
|
Estelle Knoht wrote:
I hope they could somehow pull off a way so confessions are quality over quantity or a new kind of Hallowmas altogether instead of simply a harder grind, personally.
I also think this is a step in the right direction. To obtain the best possible reward costing 500 Spirit which players being players will strive for, requires a great deal of mechanical grinding which is both repetitive and boring. This creates a cognitive dissonance with the act of confession which is fundamentally private, personal and made sparingly in real life. In short, by the time the player has obtained 500 Spirit, the player has ceased to attribute any meaning or weight to the in-game act of confessing.
To put it simply, if you are making a heartfelt confession to a close friend, that single act has a great deal of meaning, and weight. If you make 500 frivolous 'confessions' to 500 strangers for the sake of obtaining a reward, you would be hard put to remember what you said after.
Ideally, any gameplay changes should first address that.
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Etheridge
An author by trade, available for talks both public and private.
|
|
|
+5
link
|
navchaa
Posts: 561
2/4/2016
|
Yes, I'm with Kittenpox on this, especially since this is the first time I played Hallowmas content. It would be a real shame not to experience any of their effects next round.
--
Paramount Presence (London's Marrow 2, London's Nerves 2, London’s Sinew 3, London’s Blood 3) and mercenary Notary
Married to Myrto :: Exchanging Surprise Packages with anyone interested :: Exchanging cat boxes with Kitty Rambunctious
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/navchaa
|
|
|
+4
link
|
Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
2/3/2016
|
I hope they could somehow pull off a way so confessions are quality over quantity or a new kind of Hallowmas altogether instead of simply a harder grind, personally.
But yeah, it is very very odd narrative for people to parade in ugly clothes for the express purpose of having something to confess about, even more than selling your souls and retrieving it repeatedly for diamonds.
--
Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
|
|
|
+3
link
|
phryne
Posts: 1351
2/3/2016
|
Something I think would be totally awesome would be if the confessions that your character makes were actually tied to the stories you played. Meaning, to throw in some random examples, having finished Cheesemonger; Affairs with the Heiress, Model etc; made grand burglaries; killed lots of people in duels; plus having finished Fate-locked stories. Basically, every single (larger) story you've finished unlocks the possibility of making one(!) unique confession to another player, with SoH reward at least three times as much as the "normal" random confessions.
This would make confessing feel a lot more "real" as it would be tied to things your character actually experienced. It would give seasoned players with a decent contact list the opportunity to reach higher levels of SoH without having to "recruit" hundreds of new contacts via the forums each year, and at the same time draw lots of newer players (who haven't yet finished a lot of stories and may not have many contacts) here for a more coordinated effort.
Personally, I enjoyed my first Hallowmas a lot, but it definitely was a bit chaotic and a huge timesink! Making the event a bit less stressful certainly wouldn't hurt.
Failbetter would need to write a lot of new words for that, obviously, but since they're looking into changing Hallowmas already there might be enough time for that...
--
Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
|
|
|
+3
link
|
Gonen
Posts: 817
2/3/2016
|
metasynthie wrote:
The Hallowmas social mechanics were definitely beaten to a pulp by coordination on a massive scale, which tends to be pretty good at problem-solving.
True, but we talked about it at the time -
We tried to guess if the bar would be raise for the prizes. We speculated that it has not, even though records were broken big time due to the forum, because most players does not use the forum and should not suffer because of forum coordination.
Is that true? Does the majority travel through London without using the forums?
How can developers balance the forum's recruitment and the players who are not exposed to this marvelous, community bonding acts?
(Afraid I made a mess with grammatical tense here. Apologies for that).
--
The Ashen Anesthesiologist - Paramount Londoner
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness.
The long journey to eccentricity:
On March 10th, 2018, reached 15 on all quirks, simultaneously. The Quirky Anesthesiologist
|
|
|
+3
link
|
NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
2/4/2016
|
Chris Gardiner wrote:
It's early days, yet, so exact changes aren't decided. However, we want to retire the old player confessions system and replace it with something that involves a deeper interaction. Our plans might change, but that's our current thinking.
Deeper is good, I just hope it doesn't come with some arbitrary limitations like calling cards "Influence Cap". Because deeper interaction doesn't have to mean interaction on a smaller scale necessarily.
--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
|
|
|
+3
link
|
NathanielSterben
Posts: 36
2/4/2016
|
my first hallowmas was a bit of a disappointment, i didn't send as many confessions as possible during hallowmas but i did send enough that i would get 500 SoH by the end with some extra, i did this because i wanted to make sure that i could accept all the confessions sent to me which i did, however as the end approached i was still waiting for about a dozen peoples confessions and at the end i didn't get 500 SoH because of other people not having accepted my requests, this is probably because they sent out as many requests as they could and didn't have enough time to accept mine, so at the end i was one of the people left out despite my hard work making sure to accept all requests.
if i could change anything about hallowmas i would add a mechanic so that a player who has accepted all the requests could gain some SoH in the remaining time they have left, this could also help the people who don't use the forums
--
My metaphysical interpretation in the neath: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/NathanielSPACESYMBOLSterben
|
|
|
+2
link
|
NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
2/4/2016
|
I think that's a fair request kittenpox. It sounds like confessions can't be worth what they used to be anymore, but to make them worthless would be a tad disingenuous. Let's hope they have -some- use.
--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
|
|
|
+2
link
|
metasynthie
Posts: 645
2/3/2016
|
Answers on this subject might become clearer (for the Failbetter team, even) when it's closer to October, when the question will become imminent. But it's worth speculating about what might need fixing after last fall!
The Hallowmas social mechanics were definitely beaten to a pulp by coordination on a massive scale, which tends to be pretty good at problem-solving.
The solution ended up being "pour all your actions into a) sending and receiving confessions from people who just signed up to do the same and b) efficient menace generation." Carrying it out turned into a fairly rote grind after a while. How do you shake something like that up, make it more interesting?
Well, one way would be to make it more costly to send confessions, which would just slow the whole thing down.
Another would be to create more perverse incentives, like those that already exist for betrayal -- this would make it much more risky to exchange confessions with someone you don't trust. This option seems very much in keeping with the theme of the holiday, and would sow conflict and mistrust. Betrayals were already quite upsetting to some players largely because they felt rude (maybe even more upsetting than canceling a request?) -- which could point towards an interesting social dynamic, or only a troubling morass. Still, it's something to work with.
There are probably more creative ways to shake it up as well!
--
Positively antique
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
|
|
|
+2
link
|
metasynthie
Posts: 645
2/3/2016
|
I half-expected higher tiers as a result of the playerbase sorting itself into dedicated coordinators (here and on reddit, and a bit on Facebook too) and everyone else. But you can also think of the new NPC confessions with the Sunless Sea crew as adding a lower tier that's easily accessible to the lighter players, who can dip into player confessions a little bit and don't need to worry about SoH 500. If they do start to worry about it -- they can join the Grand Effort.
I personally would like to see some absurd pyramid schemes where large numbers of players are needed to push a smaller number up to a higher tier, and so forth -- now that would be hard to coordinate. But I think many would agree to have NiteBrite be the cheerleader posing on top of the pyramid, pom-poms in air.
--
Positively antique
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
|
|
|
+2
link
|
Psyche Labyrinth
Posts: 159
2/4/2016
|
Sigh. Things always get harder when I finally decide to do them...
--
Neath citizen, zee captain, possible deranged serial killer...
Profile
Backstory
Appearance
Always happy to meet new people and help out where I can!
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Parelle
Posts: 1084
2/3/2016
|
I think b) is also a problem here, but not one I can think of a solution. I think someone wrote concerning Hallowmas how odd it was thematically to be prancing around in assumed hats and scarlet stockings when what the Bazaar wants is true/real stories. But without that shortcut it's immensely grindy to fulfill requests as well.
One unpleasant-ish surprise would be if they decreased the amount SoH gained when you kept a confession from one year to the next, particularly as some people will have enough for the current max reward just by doing that alone. Honestly, I hope they don't - one thing I like is that feeling that your confidence has been kept and you've a connection to another player of something shared.
--
Parelle, Lady Joseph Marlen. The Singular Librarian. A Midnighter, a Player of the Marvelous.
pages from a dusty bookshop: a badly updated FL changelog | Useful Guidance and Explanations
|
|
|
+1
link
|
RandomWalker
Posts: 948
2/3/2016
|
Hallowmas was both good and bad - on the good, the community came together and worked together. The forums became a lot more active, and while I can't see traffic, obviously, I suspect that some of that boost remains.
On the bad side, the ultimate goal seems to have been 'cheap', in that many, many people achieved it and more. I'd argue that those people worked hard for that achievement, but hard work can't be the only factor, or else the achievement loses exclusivity (or at least I think that's what FB believe). There were also issues that the gains may not be sustainable without a continuous influx of new players, the 'ideal' strategy for getting the most point is basically to get people's confessions and keep schtum yourself, which is a little anti-social.
Thirdly there were shades of the same upset as we experienced here with de gustibus and the noman - there was an unanticipated change that upset the community's (read: Nite Brite's) plans.
My guesses for the changes this year: heavier weighing to getting fresh new confessions (new confessions means new players, and they can't all be sock puppet accounts), some penalty or other for failing to reciprocate confessions, and greater rewards for betraying confessions.
One thing I really hope that they don't change is the NPC confessions - those were brilliant, particularly the Bishop of Southwark's.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Grenem
Posts: 2067
2/4/2016
|
If they remove the possibility of a dread surmise, I really hope they add one somewhere else, since the captivating princess can't be repeated. i accidentally sold two when i meant to sell one.
--
Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Kittenpox
Posts: 869
2/4/2016
|
My experience with the 2015 Hallowmas was a mad rush to try and do the whole confession thing with everyone, making sure my menaces were at the appropriate level, finding that I had a whole bunch of people contact me for confessions when I left my profile link on the Facebook thread (most of whom, it seemed, had ZERO interest in reciprocating), and finally barely scraping through to get the 500 Spirit needed to get what I was aiming for. Like, if even one more person had ignored a social action, I wouldn't have made it.
Afterwards, I felt pretty burnt out about the game in general - and while I'm glad I eventually managed to achieve the goal I'd set for myself, it did leave a bit of a sour taste afterwards.
Not to mention I now have a whole flood of random people on my contacts list that I don't really interact with, but I haven't yet started creating a spreadsheet so I can cross-reference with my email logs to figure out which of them still talk to me and which of them I should delete.
So if they're changing the way Hallowmas 2016 is going to be, I cannot honestly say that's a bad thing. :-)
Juno wrote:
Estelle Knoht wrote:
I hope they could somehow pull off a way so confessions are quality over quantity or a new kind of Hallowmas altogether instead of simply a harder grind, personally.
I also think this is a step in the right direction. To obtain the best possible reward costing 500 Spirit which players being players will strive for, requires a great deal of mechanical grinding which is both repetitive and boring. This creates a cognitive dissonance with the act of confession which is fundamentally private, personal and made sparingly in real life. In short, by the time the player has obtained 500 Spirit, the player has ceased to attribute any meaning or weight to the in-game act of confessing.
To put it simply, if you are making a heartfelt confession to a close friend, that single act has a great deal of meaning, and weight. If you make 500 frivolous 'confessions' to 500 strangers for the sake of obtaining a reward, you would be hard put to remember what you said after.
Ideally, any gameplay changes should first address that.
^ Agreed.
Edit: the whole POSI vs Non-POSI confessions thing (and then one of the trackers screwing up so I couldn't interact with everyone's stuff because I'd done too many of the wrong type of confessions first) didn't help things either.
edited by Kittenpox on 2/4/2016
--
Kittenpox
Current [Fabulous Diamond] count: Twenty-Five (of 50). Halfway there! ^_^
Metaphysical Caprice: 11.
-
Currently: Returned to the Neath, and regaining my footing in this place. :-)
NO PLANT BATTLES PLEASE.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Kittenpox
Posts: 869
2/4/2016
|
Chris Gardiner wrote:
It's early days, yet, so exact changes aren't decided. However, we want to retire the old player confessions system and replace it with something that involves a deeper interaction. Our plans might change, but that's our current thinking.
I don't know how best to word what I'm trying to say with this one, and I understand my comment here is specifically focused around the words "we want to retire the old player confessions system" and is also possibly a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, but:
I'm really hoping this does not mean that our decision(s) to Consign/Betray confessions in 2015 ends up having been a choice with no future effects whatsoever. Finding that I'll miss out on Devouring confessions (or the future equivalent of the action) in 2016 when I could have Betrayed everyone for Connected:Masters gain with zero repercussions...? not exactly what I'm hoping for.
I'm all for changing the system from what it was. Just, please don't cause the decisions we made last year to become entirely meaningless.
--
Kittenpox
Current [Fabulous Diamond] count: Twenty-Five (of 50). Halfway there! ^_^
Metaphysical Caprice: 11.
-
Currently: Returned to the Neath, and regaining my footing in this place. :-)
NO PLANT BATTLES PLEASE.
|
|
|
+1
link
|