Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
2/3/2016
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metasynthie wrote:
The developers are not the ones who led you to believe your preparations were sufficient, and it's very nasty of you to blame them for that. Especially when all that's been removed is your "guarantee of success," not the success or its possibility.
I guess it is the problem with expectations - most of these players merely saw "A Noman Tattoo requires a Noman in Feburary" in game, the in game text merely says "No extra reward if you bring Noman to speak with Lilac", and some such. It is a huge undertaking, but it is not explicitly stated as a perilous undertaking, or that it has to be rare and prestigious.
It doesn't really tell the player "This is a significant challenge with moving goalposts" and some such. Granted, games are not obliged to coddle players, but on the flip side Fallen London is not exactly hardcore survival something something. It doesn't help that Noman, so far, seems to be a war of attrition to me.
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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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metasynthie
Posts: 645
2/3/2016
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I suspect most players who were expecting they could definitely get a Noman (or that they'd have a good shot) read NiteBrite's guide on what to do. Without that guide and some related comments on forums, practically everyone would be rather lost as to how to proceed -- or what to expect.
It's a very thorough guide -- created, I'm sure, out of a sincere desire for community collaboration and to help more people pull off a very challenging task!
A more experienced player reading the guide can look at it and see that there's a lot of uncertainty involved, not just from random melting amounts but even in exact dates that can change from year to year. It may be worth worrying that less experienced players, or people who didn't read closely enough, might get the impression that the guide is, in fact, "instructions on how you will be able to get your Noman tattoo" when that's not what it ever was.
The guide and forum activity also have the effect of making the Noman tattoo easier to get, as Chris posted. This almost always happens over time in a community of players, and it's what necessitates either making things extremely difficult to begin with, being very sneaky, or upsetting people with a difficulty increase. The only other alternative is "give up on what the Noman tattoo was supposed to be, let it become an easier box to check off your To-DO list" which, I suppose, is what you do if you feel you need to avoid upsetting people.
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Positively antique
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
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Erika
Posts: 528
2/3/2016
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It feels right, anyone that's taken part in the IroNoman so far is now getting one free Starveling Cat from the Café. I will still have more than 77*2 Starveling Cats left, so this is easy for me.
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 Where the sun is hot, the moon is beautiful, and mysterious lights pass overhead while we all pretend to sleep.
Going on a fate expedition? I'm collecting data! Help me?
"Bottles of Oblivion" drunk in the name of content: 57
Catboxes (send more!) opened in the name of science: 1093
Fancy a friend?
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
2/3/2016
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Parelle wrote:
I cared enough to spend six months clicking the same buttons over and over, I cared enough to get up early and sometimes even in the middle of the night. I didn't do that because I wanted to nab a shiny badge that no one else could get or brag about it on the forums - I did it because the story was meaningful to me. I think it's a shame that this emotional investment seems to have been given a lower value than prestige. I would have ploughed everything I had into this, but I wasn't given the choice.
There has to be a better way than upsetting people that way.
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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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metasynthie
Posts: 645
2/3/2016
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I agree, which is why I suggested the idea of a second-prize -- which certainly could involve a story just as meaningful, or more.
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Positively antique
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
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Toran
Posts: 193
2/3/2016
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I'll start by saying that the change to the melting, while annoying isn't upsetting me overly. However, I also was aiming for this tattoo because I want something to actually be able to commemorate my Noman. To me, it's the most moving story in Fallen London.
I think the assumption that people trying for the tattoo are doing it as an "achievement" is off the mark. But I could be wrong.
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I have a Hepta-Goat. Do you have a Hepta-Goat?
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Anthony%20Toran
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Passionario
Posts: 777
2/3/2016
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Estelle Knoht wrote:
There has to be a better way than upsetting people that way.
A better way would involve adding new goals instead of moving existing ones. They could keep the difficulty of acquiring the Noman tattoo the same, but introduce a new reward for keeping the Noman alive until April or May (or Hallowmas). In fact, they've already done something similar when they introduced Ubergoat and Heptagoat instead of increasing an Overgoat's price ten times to preserve its prestige.
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Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
Passion: Profile, Appearance
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colinsapherson
Posts: 191
2/3/2016
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All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of (snowy) things shall be well. The Clay Man gives us hope that the tattoos will be inked after all.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Colin%20Sapherson%2c%20Lord%20President%20of%20the%20Council
Available for Knife & Candle Moon League matches, Tournaments of lilies and other social actions (including boxed cats and photographers).
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Strangewheys~Wandering
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/RUSKIN~WARE
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Loiathal
Posts: 38
2/4/2016
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We get cats? Excellent, Cecil you're the best.
Really, the problem of moving goalposts is about communication-- if January had begun with some text in an announcement or from Penstock about how the Neath was warmer this year, and lacre was more unpredictable, then we would have adjusted accordingly (or not, and our nomans would have melted a sad death). But without the opportunity to adjust, it loses any real sense of challenge and becomes pure RNG.
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Sir Joseph Marlen
Posts: 575
2/5/2016
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Cecil wrote:
It feels right, anyone that's taken part in the IroNoman so far is now getting one free Starveling Cat from the Café. I will still have more than 77*2 Starveling Cats left, so this is easy for me.
Cecil, you beautiful person you, more cats are always welcome! Cats for petting! Cats for eating! Cats for grooming and maiming and screaming and taming! CATS FOR EVERYONE.
On another note, MERCIFUL SAINTS ALIVE DIPPED IN LACRE AND SERVED TO THE MASTERS THEMSELVES, thank you everyone who've helped me grind my Noman's Friend up to 420 after the TtH scare! It was no easy undertaking, but it was nice to see people like metasynthie and Madman-Across-The-Water for helping me out when they could. Special thanks to Parelle for her private dinners and suggestion of my name to Mr. Slowcake, as well as Gonen (via their alt Lady Ella) for sending me a whopping 38 invitations to Caligula's coffee house (how insane is that?!).
The help is more than appreciated, and it's comforting to see these tattoos to be a mutual undertaking both for the grinders and the community willing to support and cheer them on the entire way. Thank you all so much! 
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 2/5/2016
--
Sir Joseph Marlen - The Romantic Sophist
Alexus Harven - The Defiant Fatalist
Rose Reinhelm - The Respectful Revolutionary
Cappuccino - The Perfidious Spycraft
Available for any and all social actions.
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xenopus
Posts: 29
2/5/2016
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Wow, I missed the whole increase and decrease of loss while happily grinding for the Feast of the Rose in my corner.
Meanwhile, it's 144 Noman's Friend now, so my low-maintenance Noman probably isn't making it even with the adjustment, right?
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xenopus
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Sir Joseph Marlen
Posts: 575
2/6/2016
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xenopus wrote:
Wow, I missed the whole increase and decrease of loss while happily grinding for the Feast of the Rose in my corner.
Meanwhile, it's 144 Noman's Friend now, so my low-maintenance Noman probably isn't making it even with the adjustment, right?
I don't know how much it will help, but Chris (one of the developers) said that you could email Failbetter support with a request to restore some of your Noman's Friend quality. They raised mine back up by roughly 30 points, give or take. Blasted memory always fails me when I need it.
In all reality, you still have a shot. They reduced how much is taken with Time the Healer. Plus you only have to hold out until Feb. 15th, when Lilac finally shows up, so that's good. Depending on when TtH comes for you, how much you can boost you Noman's Friend with last minute Tears of the Bazaar and getting some back from support (all that may not be necessary, but why chance it?), and solely based on luck just how much of the quality you lose each week, your odds don't actually look that bad. Don't give up yet, friend!
If you need to know what the latest news is and want to stay updated, you can look here: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic21704-the-feast-is-coming-what-to-expect-this-year.aspx for the Noman's Friend losses, here: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic21704-the-feast-is-coming-what-to-expect-this-year.aspx for news on the FotER, and obviously in this thread should anything else arise. Best of luck, we're rooting for you!
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 2/6/2016
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Sir Joseph Marlen - The Romantic Sophist
Alexus Harven - The Defiant Fatalist
Rose Reinhelm - The Respectful Revolutionary
Cappuccino - The Perfidious Spycraft
Available for any and all social actions.
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Erika
Posts: 528
2/6/2016
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Loiathal wrote:
We get cats? Excellent, Cecil you're the best.
Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
Cecil, you beautiful person you, more cats are always welcome! Cats for petting! Cats for eating! Cats for grooming and maiming and screaming and taming! CATS FOR EVERYONE.
The cats have been dispatched! Everyone check your messages.
If you haven't received a cat and aren't listed in the first post, send me a message, I must have missed any posts you'd made.
--
Where the sun is hot, the moon is beautiful, and mysterious lights pass overhead while we all pretend to sleep.
Going on a fate expedition? I'm collecting data! Help me?
"Bottles of Oblivion" drunk in the name of content: 57
Catboxes (send more!) opened in the name of science: 1093
Fancy a friend?
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xenopus
Posts: 29
2/7/2016
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Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
In all reality, you still have a shot. They reduced how much is taken with Time the Healer. Plus you only have to hold out until Feb. 15th, when Lilac finally shows up, so that's good. Depending on when TtH comes for you, how much you can boost you Noman's Friend with last minute Tears of the Bazaar and getting some back from support (all that may not be necessary, but why chance it?), and solely based on luck just how much of the quality you lose each week, your odds don't actually look that bad. Don't give up yet, friend!
I didn't know Lilac's date was announced at all (very, very busy week) - thank you for all the info and for cheering me up, Sir Joseph!
So that means my Noman only has one last TtH to survive, next Friday, and hopefully, next week's cap will be below 144. Which sounds reasonable, I guess? I'd rather not have to engage in emergency Tear/Notability-grinding.
Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
I don't know how much it will help, but Chris (one of the developers) said that you could email Failbetter support with a request to restore some of your Noman's Friend quality. They raised mine back up by roughly 30 points, give or take. Blasted memory always fails me when I need it.
I guess that depends on when your TtH was, though - I had a loss of above 70 already after the devs decided to proceed with the adjustment. So that's probably intended behaviour, and here's hope, again, that next week won't be too rough. It would be silly to fall so short of the goal.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xenopus
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MrBurnside
Posts: 188
2/8/2016
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I just did some back-of-an-envelope math on this. Depending on when Lilac comes next year and assuming up to, but no more then (iffy, I agree) 140 NF loss in February: this could approach a Goat-scale grind.
My main, for example, could need up to 400+ NF in February alone. At 16.6E/NF (assuming best case scenario: Urchins>pails>Monocle>Card) that's 6500+ Echos. It's also pulling the Urchins card a truly implausible number of times (45!).
edited by MrBurnside on 2/8/2016
edited by MrBurnside on 2/8/2016
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
2/9/2016
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That's an awful lot of Notability grinding. Hopefully everything the Noman unlocks will show up early in the month.
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Màiread
Posts: 385
2/15/2016
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Lilac is here! I now have a Face in the Snow.
Edit: Found the new snippet - it's available after nabbing your tattoo.
I AM SO EXCITED! CONGRATULATIONS TO EVERYONE WHO MADE IT! And an enormous thank you to those of you who helped us on the way. And thank you Failbetter for this lovely lovely writing.
[spoiler] Oh hell, I really, really hope this isn't the foreshadowing of an even longer grind to come...[/spoiler]
edited by Màiread on 2/15/2016
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Màiread - Correspondent, composer, lover of cats. Can probably bake you a d__n fine cake.
Useful Links: Traveller's Friend (Progress Tracker & Notability Calculator) | phryne's Guide to Favours & Renown |
Peggy the Nowoman lived to see the Feast. Thank you for the memories, Snow Lady.
I'm happy to accept most social actions except for lethal sparring and loitering suspiciously. Please challenge my plant! Currently not accepting calling cards.
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Juno
Posts: 63
2/15/2016
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Màiread wrote:
Lilac is here! I now have a Face in the Snow.
Let me be the first to offer you my heartfelt congratulations on your latest body decoration. 
Although I was not a participant this year, by all accounts it sounds like a hellish slog, so bravo! And enjoy!
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Etheridge
An author by trade, available for talks both public and private.
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Sir Joseph Marlen
Posts: 575
2/15/2016
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Woo! Just got the Gant tattoo of my Noman! Thanks to everyone who cheered us on the entire way and gave us the support we needed in the forums. You guys rock. Happy Feast, everyone!
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Sir Joseph Marlen - The Romantic Sophist
Alexus Harven - The Defiant Fatalist
Rose Reinhelm - The Respectful Revolutionary
Cappuccino - The Perfidious Spycraft
Available for any and all social actions.
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An Individual
Posts: 589
2/15/2016
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I also now bear a tattoo of my Noman. Two of them actually. I wasn't a fan of the first tattoo I picked back in the day so I reworked them. Two might seem kind of silly but one is rather hidden and love is sacrifice and all that. Congratulations to everyone that made it. Now it's time to see if my Noman loves me enough to explode into an elemental secret.
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An Individual's Profile
The RNG giveth and the RNG taketh away.
Goat Farming or Cider Brewing? This browser extension may help.
Want a Cider sip? Please refer to this guide before requesting.
Scholaring the Correspondence? A Brief Guide to Courier's Footprint.
Contemplating Oblivion? First Steps on the Seeking Road.
Gone NORTH? Opened the gate? Throw your character in a well.
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