phryne
Posts: 1351
1/12/2016
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Why oh why does recertifying Scraps have to be a luck-check? It's supposed to be 50-50, but my success ratio surely is less than 20%. I've been playing for a year now and am the proud owner of 173 scraps! And yes, I do have most lodgings, even the Bazaar one.
I'm not even thinking about the 3200 Scraps items, but at this rate I'll need at least another two years before I can get even one of those worth 680 Scraps!
I just had to get this out of my system, but the Relickers/Scraps business is really really frustrating for someone who doesn't spend all day every day flipping cards...
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
1/12/2016
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Yeah, recertification is a bum game. I just sit back and let them accumulate on their own, without gambling. We'll get there in the end. (Also I think the Relickers are pretty rad characters in their own right.)
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
1/12/2016
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"Doctor, it hurts when I re-certify scraps!"
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The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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Guest
1/12/2016
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phryne wrote:
Why oh why does recertifying Scraps have to be a luck-check? It's supposed to be 50-50, but my success ratio surely is less than 20%. I've been playing for a year now and am the proud owner of 173 scraps! And yes, I do have most lodgings, even the Bazaar one.
I'm not even thinking about the 3200 Scraps items, but at this rate I'll need at least another two years before I can get even one of those worth 680 Scraps!
I just had to get this out of my system, but the Relickers/Scraps business is really really frustrating for someone who doesn't spend all day every day flipping cards...
The concept is after a huge (as in hundreds) of luck checks, you'll eventually end up slighty ahead. Well, the RNG and I are on a murder/not murder relatuionship, so I empathize with your situation. What's better to do are the following two things:
1. Get all the four-card lodgings and use them for scrap instead. While this may require additional items (a Bazaar permit comes to mind) and the occasional second chance, this is not a random toss of the die and something you can control. And unlike many of the three-card lodgings, you get multiple scraps (not just one) per turn. These residences (especially when you have three) turn up often, and have other uses (MW for example) when you need a Scraps break. In a couple of months, I got a few hundred more scraps when I was not even trying and avoiding the option a lot (for said MW.)
2 Draw cards in the Flit, get the "Call In Favours from the Flit" and turn them in to Urchins. I realize specifically many people have been using the connected urchins for a certain Christmas pail, but for the rest of the year, this gives you 20 whole scraps as well as a 1-215 Bundle of Oddities. So get the Rookery Password and buy/grind the Lizards and rats needed for it (I keep my more current characters' rats award from the Labyrinth for this now,) up your connections with them to 15+ (Suggested to go to 19-20 so it does not drop below 10) and constantly use that card! This is the main reason I am in 4-digits with my scraps.
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phryne
Posts: 1351
1/12/2016
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Ok, I acknowledge defeat: Everyone loves the Relickers but me! 
Incidentally, I think they should be City Vices. Then at least I wouldn't have to see them when I'm never going to use them anyway... and it's not like they would come all the way out to my Zee-Znail House, or would they?
Guy Scrum wrote:
After that many attempts the chance for profit is pretty good, but it's still well within the realm of possibility that the relickers (and the RNG) will hate you right back.
You know, the RNG sure does. But I shouldn't be surprised as my zodiac is The Hunter: "You are terribly, dreadfully unfortunate. You are sensitive and romantic, certainly. Unfortunately, that does not help you very much." Well, yeah.
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Kittenpox
Posts: 869
1/21/2016
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I once had a bit over 200 Scraps, back when I was fairly new to the game. I got up to about 220 then started gambling them twenty at a time (while gaining scraps as Lodgings cards appeared).
By the time I got up to having 17 scrap left, I figured this was entirely pointless and stopped wagering them. Since then I've gained at least 5300, and take the stance that 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush' ain't such a bad way of looking at things.
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Kittenpox
Current [Fabulous Diamond] count: Twenty-Five (of 50). Halfway there! ^_^
Metaphysical Caprice: 11.
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Currently: Returned to the Neath, and regaining my footing in this place. :-)
NO PLANT BATTLES PLEASE.
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Koenig
Posts: 466
9/2/2017
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Kukapetal wrote:
At least you'll always have something to work for!
*dodges tomatoes* :P
Where in the Neath would I get Tomato's to throw at you? More importantly if I did have such a delicacy I certainly would not waste them to throw at people I disagree with. No, I am afraid you will have to make do with Mushrooms.
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Koenig: Extraordinary. Invisible. Shattering. Legendary.
   
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Guy Scrum
Posts: 197
1/12/2016
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I just ran the numbers on this, and to break even on recertifying you'll need a success rate of at least 9 out of 19 attempts. After 100 attempts there's about a 1 in 3 chance you'll be at a net loss; after 1000 attempts it goes down to 1 in 20. After that many attempts the chance for profit is pretty good, but it's still well within the realm of possibility that the relickers (and the RNG) will hate you right back. Probably best to avoid them if you're not comfortable with the gamble.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Guy%20Scrum
Interactive fidgeting writer simulation
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Emain Ablach
Posts: 348
1/21/2016
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I don't have much to say, except I really dislike them for all the scraps they stole from me. I'm sure they cheat on the so-called luck-based check. Even though I'm an old player, I clearly play wrong somewhere because I only have 700ish scraps ='p
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Went NORTH. Got salted. Never came back. We won't remember him.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Emain%20Ablach
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Guest
1/22/2016
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Optimatum wrote:
Nanako wrote:
i really don't see the point in the relickers.
Even accumulating scrap naturally as people claim to be doing, doesn't make sense, because IIRC you only get scrap from lodgings opportunity cards, and you tend to get little or nothing else from those so i tend to just discard them.
Plus, the scrap prices those relickers charge, are far too high for the items they offer, and the difficulty of obtaining scrap.
How much do the upper tier lodgings offer? Maybe it's worthwhile then. right now the whole scrap game seems like a complete waste of my actions, and i choose to ignore it entirely
The relickers charge quite reasonable prices, though it's only worth buying from them for the rarer items. Scrap sells for half an echo so each transaction costs about twice the item's echo cost in scraps. The Steamer three-card lodgings gives two scraps and the four-card ones give 3-4 on a challenge success. Scraps can also be obtained from the Sulky Bat's card, trading in favors with the Urchins, and several fate-locked story unlocks.
Nanako, I realize you've only registered for a little less than a year, so you may lack the long-term insight into this, but these scraps are meant to be collected for months if not years. Ask the players who have played for years to confirm this. Eventually, using the tips in this reply above, and the other replies I have reposted below (you should really re-read) you amass thousands of scrap. Multiple times. This is one main reason you gain more than one four-card lodging. It adds up quickly. And the urchin's 20 Scraps and 1-215 Bundle is amazing as well/can also help the soulless get their soul back.
Now, whether you debate using them to do end-game stuff like collect all the top tier items from each Rellicer or buy Five-card Lodgings when it's not Christmas to complete your set or spend "only a few hundred" to pick up the still-rare Whisper Satin Scraps or even the lesser items offered, that's a debate every player eventually has. But not ones just starting out. Again, gambling with scraps should be when you have close to if not four-digits in value and should use the rule of long averages discussed putting it slightly ahead, if ever used.
If any of you are using luck checks as a primary method of generation instead of Urchins and 4-card Lodgings, the you're not doing it correctly.
Again, as replied earlier:
the truthseeker wrote:
sebastian olmen wrote:
I believe if you run the numbers the relickers come out as equivalent to a low level house (20 extra/-18 comes to 2 extra but only half the time so that's 1 scrap per use). It's not good but it can give you that little kick to get over the line and it adds four more scrap cards to your deck. But yes the urchins are far better.
As noted, it really only evens out to that after hundreds to 1000+ attempts though. Don't bank on it like a 1 scrap card either.
lady ciel wrote:
I always play the Relicker cards and I have got all 4 top tier items from them, and enough scraps to get another if I wanted. But I have been playing for years, also get scraps from the lodging cards and my sulky bat.
Now I have all the items I do sometimes gamble on the menace option on the cards and if there is an alternative use that option on the lodging cards.
I do understand that it can be really dispiriting to watch your scraps dwindle rapidly but, in the long run, you will probably come out ahead.
navchaa wrote:
I'd also not gamble on scraps until there's a nice pile of at least 1000 of them. Otherwise the losses are far too painful. I also gamble on an armful of scraps (10) rather than a double armful as I'd read somewhere that the long term odds give you slightly more for that option.
Also, calling in favours from the urchins will not only give you 20 scraps, but also a bundle of oddities. I once scored scraps in the bundle too, so it was a good boost all at one go.
I typically camp in the Flit just to draw that card. Aside from the urchins, calling in favours from the revolutionaries gives 720 proscribed material, possibly one of the highest value rewards in the game.
And my favourite relicker is the Curt Relicker, mainly because of a fate-locked option on his card 
edited by the truthseeker on 1/22/2016
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Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 787
1/12/2016
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You know, I totally support the idea of the Relicker cards becoming City Vices!
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Rupho Schartenhauer has killed a Master, well: most of it.
Cortez the Killer has killed a Master, definitely.
Deepdelver has become the progenitor of London's brightest star. It's... complicated.
Dr. Kvirkvelia, gone NORTH on 23/12/1894.
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sebastian olmen
Posts: 18
1/12/2016
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I believe if you run the numbers the relickers come out as equivalent to a low level house (20 extra/-18 comes to 2 extra but only half the time so that's 1 scrap per use). It's not good but it can give you that little kick to get over the line and it adds four more scrap cards to your deck. But yes the urchins are far better.
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metasynthie
Posts: 645
1/12/2016
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1) Accumulate a large pile of scraps, a thousand will do
2) When you get Relicker cards, double recertify until you're about 10 scraps ahead of where you started. This will take, on average, about 5 relicker cards. Sometimes it will be shorter, sometimes it will take longer, maybe hundreds of cards! If you are a very unlucky, 1 in 10000 person, you will never complete this step.
3) Stop and feel fortunate about coming out ahead in your winnings
4) Wait a while, keep accumulating scraps by other means but don't recertify
5) Repeat at step #1
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Positively antique
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
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The Glass Boffin
Posts: 51
1/12/2016
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The Relickers answer to a higher power of some kind... you cannot hide from them O_O
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/Glass~Boffin
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phryne
Posts: 1351
1/12/2016
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the truthseeker wrote:
Draw cards in the Flit, get the "Call In Favours from the Flit" and turn them in to Urchins. [...] this gives you 20 whole scraps
I did not know about that!!!
I'll get all of my scraps from lodgings and urchins from now on, then. No more dealing with these facetious relickers - if only one could keep them from cluttering the card deck...
edited by phryne on 1/12/2016
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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navchaa
Posts: 561
1/12/2016
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I'd also not gamble on scraps until there's a nice pile of at least 1000 of them. Otherwise the losses are far too painful. I also gamble on an armful of scraps (10) rather than a double armful as I'd read somewhere that the long term odds give you slightly more for that option.
Also, calling in favours from the urchins will not only give you 20 scraps, but also a bundle of oddities. I once scored scraps in the bundle too, so it was a good boost all at one go.
I typically camp in the Flit just to draw that card. Aside from the urchins, calling in favours from the revolutionaries gives 720 proscribed material, possibly one of the highest value rewards in the game.
And my favourite relicker is the Curt Relicker, mainly because of a fate-locked option on his card
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Paramount Presence (London's Marrow 2, London's Nerves 2, London’s Sinew 3, London’s Blood 3) and mercenary Notary
Married to Myrto :: Exchanging Surprise Packages with anyone interested :: Exchanging cat boxes with Kitty Rambunctious
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/navchaa
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
9/2/2017
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At least you'll always have something to work for!
*dodges tomatoes* :P
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
1/21/2016
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Upper tier lodgings give 3 or 4 scrap, which is much better. But the main point of the relickers is the top two tiers of items they sell, which can be even more difficult to impossible to obtain otherwise, so they're not exactly overpriced.
edited by suinicide on 1/21/2016
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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lady ciel
Posts: 2548
1/21/2016
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I always play the Relicker cards and I have got all 4 top tier items from them, and enough scraps to get another if I wanted. But I have been playing for years, also get scraps from the lodging cards and my sulky bat.
Now I have all the items I do sometimes gamble on the menace option on the cards and if there is an alternative use that option on the lodging cards.
I do understand that it can be really dispiriting to watch your scraps dwindle rapidly but, in the long run, you will probably come out ahead.
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ciel
Sorry RL means I am not a very active player at the moment. No social actions unless you are prepared to wait and definitely no sparring or other mult-action things.
No Calling Cards or boxed cats please. Will take dupes on the affluent photographers. Other social invitations welcome. Parabolan Kittens usually available, send me an in-game social action saying you want one and I will get one to you as soon as possible.
storynexus name - reveurciel
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Ragnar Degenhand
Posts: 197
9/4/2017
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I always gamble for cherries. Success seems to me way better than fifty per cent, certainly to go by my tidy little stash!
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Ragnar%20Degenhand
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xKiv
Posts: 846
9/4/2017
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Tyrconnell wrote:
The top-tier items actually don't have the best return in terms of echoes per scrap if you sell the items to the Bazaar,
Where are you getting that?
Looking at capering, not accounting for the 1 action spent taking the action:
location: 1560e/3200scrap = 0.4875 e/scrap
coruscating: 312.5e/680scrap = 0.4595588 e/scrap
skull: 60e/160 scrap = 0.375 e/scrap
rings: 37.5e/120 scrap = 0.3125 e/scrap
brandy (50% of 20 brandy, 50% of 5 brandy): 31.25e/100 scrap = 0.3125 e/scrap
brilliant: (probably something likr 49% of 42 souls, 1% of 42 souls and 1 muscaria, 50% of 10 souls): 13.025e/30 scrap = 0.4341666 e/scrap
sherry (50% of 80, 50% of 20): 5e/15 scrap = 0.333 e/scrap
blandsoul: (100 or 25): 1.25e/5 scrap = 0.25 e/scrap
The other relickers relish relics at pretty much the same rates.
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2518
9/9/2017
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Neither I nor my character is a snob. But the truth is that I don't like any of the Relickers; they are too wrapped up in themselves and their work. What I do love is their Rattus Faber companions. Every last one of them: Mathilde, Montgomery, and I forget the names of the other two, right now.
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Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355
Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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