Grenem
Posts: 2067
12/16/2015
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Can anyone give me an estimate for this?
For instance, I know that 50 fate is worth more than 312.5 echoes, because you can get a ray-drenched cinder for that- with other bonuses mixed in.
I know that 7 fate will unlock an x action grind for 1 loop, which with the right conditions will return 5.3 epa. compared to 1.78 epa, that's a profit of 3.52 epa, if that were actually accurate. unfortunately, i don't know what the conditions are, or how many actions long it is by that method.
15 fate is also transferable to 20.8333 echoes per point fate- though as a 1-time event, i don't know if it counts.
Any estimates would be appreciated.
(Yes, I know it's missing the entire point of fate. I still have to ask.)
Thanks!
edited by Grenem on 12/16/2015
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
12/16/2015
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During Hallowmas, there is an option that gives you 312.50 echoes for 7 fate, as opposed to your 50. The echo values varies so much with so many things, that I don't think it is consistent enough for an estimate.
edited by suinicide on 12/16/2015
edited by suinicide on 12/16/2015
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A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
12/16/2015
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suinicide wrote:
During Hallowmas, there is an option that gives you 312.50 echoes for 7 fate, as opposed to your 50. The echo values varies so much with so many things, that I don't think it is consistent enough for an estimate.
edited by suinicide on 12/16/2015
edited by suinicide on 12/16/2015
Doesn't that one cost a soul, though? If it's a different one, please PM me, since i didn't know, but if it does cost a soul, it doesn't count properly- as it's actually 22+ fate per loop. (7 for the option, 15+ for the soul, based on metaphysical caprice. or, alternately, 7, then grind for another soul with ? epa total.) It is highly variable, i will admit, though. Which is why i'm trying to find the most valuable use for fate in echoes. It's mostly curiosity, though.
edited by Grenem on 12/16/2015
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Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
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On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
12/16/2015
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Yeah, you're thinking of the right one. Are you looking for the best fate grind? Or an estimate of what fate is worth, because one of those sounds alot more doable.
Ps: why would anyone want to regain their soul? I don't want to be reintroduced to the judgements' games.
edited by suinicide on 12/16/2015
edited by suinicide on 12/16/2015
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
12/16/2015
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suinicide wrote:
Yeah, you're thinking of the right one. Are you looking for the best fate grind? Or an estimate of what fate is worth, because one of those sounds alot more doable.
Ps: why would anyone want to regain their soul? I don't want to be reintroduced to the judgements' games.
edited by suinicide on 12/16/2015
edited by suinicide on 12/16/2015
best repeatable fate-> echoes conversion. It has to be repeatable, extra actions involved are fine, and the value should be calculated in difference between that and the actions used.
Also, because if you don't factor the soul's recovery in, then it's a 162.5 1-time profit. (since a soul is worth 150 echoes for 0 fate. see- the christmas option.) Also, the same thing is availible with no additional fate cost for anyone who is a spirifer, and it's not a good grind now.
edited by Grenem on 12/16/2015
--
Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
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metasynthie
Posts: 645
12/16/2015
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It's probably the Gallery of Serpents, which costs 7 Fate and results in an average of ~296 Echoes of sellable items. (Update: actually more than that, I forgot to include the "optional rewards" you can get during that expedition but I don't remember how much they add up to.) There are a lot of extra actions, though; you need to get 40 crates of supplies, have maxed-out Watchful, and probably around 15 actions on the expedition itself.
edited by metasynthie on 12/16/2015
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RandomWalker
Posts: 948
12/16/2015
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Well, as a simple baseline, 10 fate will give you 20 actions. 20 actions can convert into echoes at, say 1.8 epa with the Fidgeting Writer grind, so each point of fate is worth a minimum of 3.6 echoes.
From there, the best repeatable fate-locked grind appears to be the Gallery of Serpents, which offers a return, on average, of 5.3 epa, according to the wiki. The 'correct conditions' bit refers to getting your expedition supplies in the ideal fashion (tankard, I think), doing the expedition three supplies at a time without any failures, making full use of the potential intervention that is available to you, being happy with selling your reward for the best return, and doing the run enough times that the law of large numbers evens out your reward. Even then, 5.3 sounds a little high.
Without getting too explicit, doing it that way will cap your connected to the docks at 20, demolishes your steadfast, and maximises your assistance to the Revolutionaries. Which might be fine for some people, but got boring fast for me.
It's a 40-point expedition, though, so that epa lasts a long time - the end reward is variable, between about 150 echoes and 660 echoes, off the top of my head, minus expenses.
So the value of fate varies on your stats, your gear, your playstyle, your tolerance for repetitive grinding, and your tolerance for gambling.
Good luck putting a number on it.
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
12/16/2015
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RandomWalker wrote:
Well, as a simple baseline, 10 fate will give you 20 actions. 20 actions can convert into echoes at, say 1.8 epa with the Fidgeting Writer grind, so each point of fate is worth a minimum of 3.6 echoes.
From there, the best repeatable fate-locked grind appears to be the Gallery of Serpents, which offers a return, on average, of 5.3 epa, according to the wiki. The 'correct conditions' bit refers to getting your expedition supplies in the ideal fashion (tankard, I think), doing the expedition three supplies at a time without any failures, making full use of the potential intervention that is available to you, being happy with selling your reward for the best return, and doing the run enough times that the law of large numbers evens out your reward. Even then, 5.3 sounds a little high.
Without getting too explicit, doing it that way will cap your connected to the docks at 20, demolishes your steadfast, and maximises your assistance to the Revolutionaries. Which might be fine for some people, but got boring fast for me.
It's a 40-point expedition, though, so that epa lasts a long time - the end reward is variable, between about 150 echoes and 660 echoes, off the top of my head, minus expenses.
So the value of fate varies on your stats, your gear, your playstyle, your tolerance for repetitive grinding, and your tolerance for gambling.
Good luck putting a number on it.
hmm... I'd assume the conditions are as follows:
- Watchful high enough to manage the 3 supplies action 100% of the time (or second chances for the same reason.)
- tankard used for supplies? (well, the actions per supply are actually higher that way, but idk how relevant that is.)
- certain, non-RNG choices repeated endlessly.
(I'm assuming any non-repeating event isn't being factored into epa unless there's a way to make it viable.)
Given those restrictions, getting 40 supplies would be 45.45(repeating) actions, and getting the reward would be 60.45(repeating) actions. (maybe with some more steps i don't know about if you can list them. included- progressing through the expedition, getting the supplies, getting the main reward.)
The average reward, apparently, is worth about 309.5 echoes more than the pay-in that way. assuming this is the same when the conditions aren't met.
Were it worthwhile, these conditions met, and the numbers accurate, 7 fate would be worth 212.8 echoes, or 1 fate = 30.45 echoes, if you're using it just to get items. (or, if you'd normally do fidgeting writer, 200 echoes and 1 fate = 28.67 echoes) of course, if they're not...
if these conditions are not met, you can instead do 2 expedition supplies. assuming you can always succeed, that'd be 7 more actions, for 4.58 epa- assuming this is a normal expedition, which is a silly assumption. if there's some airs based worthwhile cash bonus, then that's worth noting. this is also assuming that you're lucky enough to never have to bribe the competition off. with these assumptions, the expedition would be between 188.94 echoes more valuable, and 175.45 echoes. (assuming all numbers on wiki are accurate. depending on if you want the best consistent grind, or the best grind assuming average luck.) 1 fate = 25.06~26.99 echoes.
Of course, it'd take 60ish actions to cash in the fate, so if you want cash fast, there's probably a fairer price for a fate-to-echoes exchange, if they've got the funds in liquid form up-front.
For a fast conversion, 1 fate is comparable to 6.21 echoes, for the only 1-action repeatable loop. (unless you know something more effective.)
So a fair price for fate would be between the two.
edited by Grenem on 12/16/2015
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Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
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Erika
Posts: 528
12/19/2015
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Ahahahaha, I wrote that part of the wiki.
Correct conditions is trading with the Ophidian Gentleman 3 times (spending 1 supply at a time in order to get them 3 times) and then betraying them. You can look at my math if you look at the thing in my signature. I forget whether I've adjusted that to calculate based off range yet or not...
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Going on a fate expedition? I'm collecting data! Help me?
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Blaine Davidson
Posts: 388
12/19/2015
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It is also possible to get 20 First City Coins for 38 Fate.
Though it's not exactly profitable...
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Blaine Davidson, a reserved and sensible woman with a fondness of collecting rarities.
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
12/19/2015
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Blaine Davidson wrote:
It is also possible to get 20 First City Coins for 38 Fate.
Though it's not exactly profitable...
For the record, i'd say never, ever do that. I'm sure that if you posted to the wiki "offering 10 fate for 30 first city coins " there'd be lots of people more than eager to do such a trade.(assuming, of course, that you can buy fate for others in such small quantities, and that the gift is just the only option after you buy it). Besides, that's a really foolish way to spend your fate. 38 fate is too much for a single snippet of text and 5 echoes in goods.
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Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
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Guest
12/19/2015
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Before i respond to replies, I'd like to suggest asking this to our resident candle Spacemarines9. Assumming you don't just PM him, the best place to properly ask him unobtrusively is on his "I'm a Candle" Tumblr page.
suinicide wrote:
Yeah, you're thinking of the right one. Are you looking for the best fate grind? Or an estimate of what fate is worth, because one of those sounds alot more doable.
Ps: why would anyone want to regain their soul? I don't want to be reintroduced to the judgements' games.
because the Judgments demand you be their sandwich when you die! OM-NOM-NOM-NOM
[spoiler]Yes, when you die and the attached soul ascends to the Heavens, the Judgments consume it. Very, very, very, rarely, a soul evolves so amazingly, it hatches into a new Judgement. We're not sure specifically how, but these are called "Judgment's Eggs" for that reason. Welcome to the top-of-the-Food-Chain-Evolution.[/spoiler]
Passionario wrote:
If you're into truly exotic Fate-based grinds, you can also repeatedly buy Lethean leaves and redo Heart's Desire for Reported Locations.
Why would I want to have to grind that long, spending so much to get (back) there again even for an item that value? However, technically, yes, if you are willing to spend Fate (unless you play "Ambition: Light Finger's" long enough to get that Tea Leaves item, use it and start Heart's Desire of which if you wish to do it again you have to pay fate for new tea leaves,) you may reset your ambition and start from the beginning "farming" the location.
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Ian Hart
Posts: 437
12/20/2015
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Well, it's simply a matter of totaling the costs for getting that far into the ambition, subtracting it from the sell price of the location (1562) and then dividing by the action investment. For a capped out player I'd imagine that couple potentially be quite profitable in terms of echoes per action and echoes per fate.
Unfortunately I'm on Nemesis, which has no such profitable breakpoint, so I can't test it myself.
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
12/20/2015
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Ian Hart wrote:
Well, it's simply a matter of totaling the costs for getting that far into the ambition, subtracting it from the sell price of the location (1562) and then dividing by the action investment. For a capped out player I'd imagine that couple potentially be quite profitable in terms of echoes per action and echoes per fate.
Unfortunately I'm on Nemesis, which has no such profitable breakpoint, so I can't test it myself.
It's not. You need to pay out multiple times to progress, and the location itself is pretty pricey. the story is over 200 actions, which means even if it hadn't cost anything- which it does- you'd still be looking at pretty poor EpA. It includes a loot-less run of polythreme, for one thing.
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Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
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Guest
12/20/2015
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Grenem wrote:
Ian Hart wrote:
Well, it's simply a matter of totaling the costs for getting that far into the ambition, subtracting it from the sell price of the location (1562) and then dividing by the action investment. For a capped out player I'd imagine that couple potentially be quite profitable in terms of echoes per action and echoes per fate.
Unfortunately I'm on Nemesis, which has no such profitable breakpoint, so I can't test it myself.
It's not. You need to pay out multiple times to progress, and the location itself is pretty pricey. the story is over 200 actions, which means even if it hadn't cost anything- which it does- you'd still be looking at pretty poor EpA. It includes a loot-less run of polythreme, for one thing.
Having a Main and alts now in all the Ambitions, I will vouch for this. Don't "mine" this Ambition.
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