The tearful archaeologist.
Posts: 7
12/7/2015
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I have been playing FL for nearly a year now. Two months ago I joined the leagues with no intention to fight anyone and put no invitations in the forums. I eventually got my prize tokens and brought a knife of lost sky, and a shroud. And then I was immediately jumped with no prior warning with an elusive attack and had my hard won gear stolen by [another player]
Now he isn't responding to my frantic letters in the hopes of getting my gear back so I dont have to wait another month...
Is this sort of behavior considered polite? He is clearly a character that had no need to steal those items from me and yet he did so anyway...
What is polite and what isn't here?
Hi guys - locking this thread, as it's turned into social shaming for someone who is playing the game as it is allowed to be played. In general it's poor show to police player actions which aren't exploiting any bugs via public outings on forums, and I've seen it happening more often of late. Can we strive to avoid it?
edited by babelfishwars on 12/8/2015
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Danko
Posts: 142
12/8/2015
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Um, hi.
I haven't responded because I believe we've discussed the matter previously and I was unwilling to spend any more actions to say all the same things.
In fact I'm very new to K&C myself, but as I've told you before, I believe that if you sign up for the Iron League, you are a part of Knife and Candle. You sign a contract with Mr Iron agreeing to attacking and being attacked by the other members. This is the entire point of the game.
I don't think it's right to say "I signed up just to get free stuff so nobody has the right to attack me". This may not be against the rules of the game, but I believe it is against it's nature.
I don't discriminate against any people that show up on my attack list. In fact, I don't even check their profile most of the time. If they have K&C items, they probably fought for them, and if they don't, my attack won't do them any real harm.
At the end of things, you won your knife back, fair and square, and I have no qualms about it.
But I will not give any promises not to attack you again as long as you are a part of K&C.
Now I admit I may not be the most polite person if the Fifth City but to be honest, if you don't want to be attacked, maybe you should not sign for K&C.
edited by Danko on 12/8/2015
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NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
12/8/2015
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I think the issue really is that the iron leagues are setup to be a hardcore zone of cat and mouse that is stacked heavily in favor of long term players. It's meant to facilitate such predatory thefts and behaviors, cutting out otherwise pesky complications of moon duels rules and structure.
In other words, it's totally the wrong place to dump new and helpless players. Ones who don't know they have just entered the hardcore stealth zone. Ones who stay out in the open, unaware they are meant to hide. The iron league is being played correctly I'd say, by people using it to rob and get lots of loot fast, it's just, it's a place you should need to work your way up to once you've become skilled in the moon. I blame the game for having the iron league as default. That's like an adventure game having a default setting of Impossible difficulty. Sure you can turn it down of you know how, but most people are going to start a game assuming it's defaulted to normal difficulty, which just isn't the case with the iron leagues.
edited by NiteBrite on 12/8/2015
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dov
Posts: 2580
12/8/2015
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The tearful archaeologist. wrote:
Don't use elusive if you dont need the items, you didn't need to steal them so why would you? That's just needlessly taking away someone else's items for no reason at all, how would you like your overgoat taken away by someone?
I sympathize with your pain. I really do. It's not a nice feeling to have stuff taken from you (I've had this happen with Waxwail Knives, which are way more expensive and hard to get).
However, as others have said, Elusive attacks are part of the game of K&C and this is how the Iron League works. If you've joined the Iron League, you can't realistically expect all others in the league to never use one of the 3 attack modes available to them.
You seem to see Elusive as a way to steal other people's hard won stuff. It is, but also it isn't. Think of it as a game of rock-paper-scissors, with the addition that winning with 'paper' gets you items from the one defeated. In such a game, should players be expected to never use 'paper'? It's one of the valid strategies designed for the game. You expect people to only ever try either 'rock' or 'scissors', when the game is called 'rock-paper-scissors'.
You also seem to think that someone might use Elusive in order to steal your items. That's definitely not the only reason. Some play K&C just for the challenge of it (trying to get win streaks). Most of the items are inconsequential. You use 'Elusive' for the same reason you might use 'Savage' - when you think your opponent might be vulnerable to that particular attack mode.
Personally, the only items on which I place any value relevant to K&C are:
- Waxwail Knives (very rare and useful)
- Brass Rings (can actually be sold for money)
- Prize Tokens (can be exchanged for valuable goods - rings, enigmas, etc.)
This is just to show you that different players place different values for such items. And choosing Elusive was probably not done to get your Knife of Lost Sky and Shroud (so it's irrelevant if the attacker already has such items).
Again - I understand that it hurts (I've been there myself). Personally, I only attack by arrangement or to retaliate against others. When I've attacked someone by mistake I've made every effort to return their items to them. But I wouldn't expect the same from others.
If you don't ever want to be attacked (which is valid), go for the Moon League and rest easy.
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Zantumall
Posts: 109
12/7/2015
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Honestly, I wouldn't call that impolite. Kind of the point of Knife and Candle is that investing in prizes carries risk - that's why you're allowed to steal them in the first place. And it's hardly common practice to warn your opponent before you ambush them. You can (and should) try to steal them back if you need them, you always have a chance to win attacks even when the opponent's stat is much higher than yours. If you absolutely need that knife on a long-term basis, then swipe it back and immediately quit the league.
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Redd Herring
Posts: 34
12/8/2015
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The tearful archaeologist. wrote:
I can understand it being a dirty game but I never asked to have my items taken by someone who didn't even need them. I didn't even get the three rings that I lost to him back as he immediately pawned them off to the bazzar.
Not to sound unsympathetic to your plight, but I fear it's contradictory to say as such after joining Knife and Candle. As you've said yourself, it's a dirty game. To join is to commit to the idea that you might have any of your hard-earned gains stolen from you at any given moment. Was it unsporting of your opponent? Absolutely. However, they did nothing wrong. Tis how the game is played, and whether they need those items or not is, sorry to say, irrelevant. Knife and Candle is not a gentleman's game, and manners are by no means a mandatory part of it.
Nonetheless, you have my sincerest condolences for being victimized in such a vile manner. Rarely have I seen a case of such poor sportsmanship in the Leagues, although this is far from being an isolated instance.
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NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
12/8/2015
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Kukapetal wrote:
I was always under the impression that the Moon League was the more difficult league, so it's interesting to find out it's the opposite. I was totally intimidated by the thought of entering the Moon League, given how utterly awful I was at Iron League. Now I wonder if I should have stuck with it and given it a try. Sounds like I may have had better luck.
You'd have a much better time in the Moon League. Every duel is totally by consent only, and you are free to withdraw at -any- time up until the final attack. It's a little slower since you have to boost your stats three times before the challenged player makes their attack, so its 4 total social actions. But it gives you time to think about your moves, to take your time, really get a feel for the stats and mechanics. You can still get robbed by an elusive attack, but you have a lot more chances to see it coming or to protect yourself against it with things like gambits. It's a lot more fair basically, and you never have to get stabbed if you don't want to be.
Additionally, where the Iron Leagues are played by expensive lodgings cards, and having POSI status, and lots of connections etc, you need -nothing- to play the moon leagues. There's no disadvantage to being a new player without expensive stuff if you play in the Moon League. You also get a free form change after every duel, so you can try them all out and refine your strategy. It's like, 1000 times easier and new player friendly. Definitely worth giving a try. All it takes to join the moon league is to have a knife and candle form and to play the storylet in the gameskeepers cottage in watchmakers hill. You have to get a form again for the first time when you enter the moon leagues, but after that you never have to wait for cards or a sense of urgency again.
edited by NiteBrite on 12/8/2015
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
12/8/2015
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There's nothing wrong with attacking other player with Elusive. It's part of the game, and you can always go up to the Moon League or drop your form to be fully guarded from Iron League theft without losing the free perks that come with the game. I highly recommend the Moon League to anyone who isn't interested in majorly participating in Knife and Candle - that's the place you want to be for your particular K&C playstyle. You can even prevent Elusive attacks entirely while still participating in duels within that League.
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edited by Sara Hysaro on 12/8/2015
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metasynthie
Posts: 645
12/8/2015
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I predict that the long-term effect of this thread is that the tearful archaologist will be attacked and robbed again by semi-known acquaintances upon ever stepping foot into the Iron Leagues. Out of simple, old-fashioned, bad-natured spite against an advantage-seeking sore loser with an acquisitive notion of fairness and a poor comprehension of the brutal spirit of play. Watch out! Cull that acquaintance list! Enjoy your reputation.
Edited to add: not attacked by ME! I'm not in the Iron Leagues, that place is full of dangerous, wealthy ruffians who will as soon stab and rob you as send you a Christmas card! I'll be in the Young Stags club having a drink instead.
edited by metasynthie on 12/8/2015
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
12/7/2015
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the truthseeker wrote:
An Individual wrote:
Unfortunately the Iron League is an anything goes kind of a fair. Polite? Polite isn't really the point when you're stabbing people and taking their stuff. If you'd like to duel like a gentleman the Moon League is more involved but requires willing participation and has options that one can take to ensure no one takes your stuff.
As certain storyette cards show, the game used to be...more refined. Then certain...undesirables showed up and "Umpires" were needed. The example above is exactly why we could use umpires here for players.
No, it's not. All the knife-and-candle text implies the game is exactly as dirty as it is on our end, if not more, and the umpires only get involved if non-players are involved. If takuza is massacring knife and candle players by the boatload, she's not a problem, but if eolande, in self defense, blows up a city block, she is. This is the idea in every storylet associated with being a knife-and-candle umpire.
EDIT: which is not to say there are not matters of etiquite/honor, there are. they just have no need to be enforced, and i feel it would ruin what little flavor the game has.
edited by Grenem on 12/8/2015
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Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 787
12/8/2015
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Seriously, what you experienced there is only what K&C is all about. It is a dirty game, meant to be played dirty. Polite isn't even a thing there. If that's not your style, opt out of it - I don't enjoy it, that's why I don't play.
edited by Rupho Schartenhauer on 12/8/2015
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Parelle
Posts: 1084
12/8/2015
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Nigel Overstreet wrote:
It's nothing you can't get back for free and nothing you could have sold for Echoes.
To be fair, there was also a loss of 30 Echoes in Brass Rings and the feeling of time wasted. But, just looking at the tearful archaeologist's profile: 30 echoes is nothing to smirk out, but there is some 1150 echoes in equipment visible (and I'm assuming you just traded in for the squad today rather than bought it outright), never mind the 6 Airags - I hope you find a 7th! So I've somewhat less sympathy for the monetary loss - though I understand the lack of your peace of mind.
It's worth mentioning I had a smidgen of a public tiff with Danko myself over Hallowmas, where he stated that he was going to start betraying out of shear... boredom I think? and I complained about it - rather jokingly, I hope. Never the less, he did not betrayed me when it came around, and went on to say this:
danko wrote:
I do find it most amusing how social actions of Fallen London are governed by an entirely community-made etiquette. And everyone is just so polite and courteous to each other, while being impolite is probably the worst crime you can commit.
Let me just say that it is absolutely lovely, and not something I've been used to in my harsh northern life at all.
I've been avoiding social actions for the whole year I've been playing and now I'm thinking I might have been wrong about that. This community really feels unique.
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic20906-hallowmas-betrayals-for-connected-masters.aspx?Page=4
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annalibertas
Posts: 161
12/8/2015
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Passionario wrote:
Danko wrote:
You sign a contract with Mr Iron agreeing to attacking and being attacked by the other members.
The 'Underground Leagues' are not sanctioned by Mr. Iron. As far as he and his umpires are concerned, anyone involved in them is just a regular murderer, not a K&C player.
While this is true, the intent of the statement was to point out that if you don't want to be attacked and have your stuff stolen, don't join the game for attacking people and stealing their stuff. If that wasn't the entire point of the game, OP's complaint probably would've garnered more sympathy but as it is there's not much I can say besides "sorry, but you're in the wrong place"
Also in response to the hallowmas contacts debate: I make no effort to distinguish between where various contacts came from and they're all equally likely to receive social actions from me. I'm not in the game right now so this specific situation hasn't come up but I don't really see the difference personally.
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
12/8/2015
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Oh, it'll definitely sting if you lose something valuable, whether just to you or objectively. Starting players in the Moon League would be a nicer way of handling things and prevent a lot of this sort of thing.
I remember that old SMEN thread for Knife and Candle thefts. Snatching prize tokens from players and running off into Hunter's Keep was how I got my candle back then, and while I'm sure it did sting for them it was the only way I could see to actually make it. I remember when the Prize Token cost for it dropped, enabling me to get my Candle without having to steal any additional tokens with Searing Enigmas. I never did anger that old thread, but it was a very memorable time for me.
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edited by Sara Hysaro on 12/8/2015
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
12/8/2015
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Red Herring wrote:
Nonetheless, you have my sincerest condolences for being victimized in such a vile manner. Rarely have I seen a case of such poor sportsmanship in the Leagues, although this is far from being an isolated instance.
I'm a bit confused about how exactly this was "poor sportsmanship" on the other guy's part. Isn't the goal of the game to ambush other players and try to take their stuff? Wasn't he just doing what you do in Knife and Candle? I doubt he knew that the OP had been saving up for those items forever and had JUST gotten them. Sounds like it was just a case of really bad luck. And what does it matter if he has more than one of the items? Are you supposed to quit once you get one of everything or is it okay to keep playing to get more stuff to sell or just for the challenge of it? For all the other guy knew, the OP was also sitting on 20 of those knives and thus wouldn't miss one.
I guess I just don't see how it's poor sportsmanship to play the game as it was meant to be played.
That said, I do feel really bad for the OP, as it really sucks to work hard to get something only to have it immediately stolen, but again, I think it's just a case of crappy luck rather than the other guy doing anything wrong.
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An Individual
Posts: 589
12/7/2015
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Unfortunately the Iron League is an anything goes kind of a fair. Polite? Polite isn't really the point when you're stabbing people and taking their stuff. If you'd like to duel like a gentleman the Moon League is more involved but requires willing participation and has options that one can take to ensure no one takes your stuff.
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Hobnail
Posts: 179
12/7/2015
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Poor show poacher, poor show!
edited by Hobnail on 12/7/2015
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
12/7/2015
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Passionario wrote:
Live by the candle, die by the knife.
Isn't that backwards? it's the candles that are truly dangerous, here. The knives are simply... well, i should say generally, the candles are the dangerous ones.
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I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
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Mr Sables
Posts: 597
12/7/2015
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The tearful archaeologist. wrote:
I have been playing FL for nearly a year now. Two months ago I joined the leagues with no intention to fight anyone and put no invitations in the forums. I eventually got my prize tokens and brought a knife of lost sky, and a shroud. And then I was immediately jumped with no prior warning with an elusive attack and had my hard won gear stolen by http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/danko
Now he isn't responding to my frantic letters in the hopes of getting my gear back so I dont have to wait another month...
Is this sort of behavior considered polite? He is clearly a character that had no need to steal those items from me and yet he did so anyway...
What is polite and what isn't here?
It's probably best not to 'out' people, but . . .
To my knowledge, those are the risks of the game. You get tokens for beating people, so people will do this to get more tokens, which earns them better prizes . . . it's a risk for so long as you're in the game. Best solution? Grab the gear you want, then exist the leagues entirely (if you can). That way you can't lose anything.
I've lost hard-earned items, too, which is annoying as heck, but that's life XD Have you tried the Moon League? I don't think you can surprise attack people there, but you can still challenge people to matches and earn prizes  It's a bit safer, if I remember right
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Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
Posts: 1372
12/7/2015
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I'm sorry that you lost your stuff.
Personally I don't play K&C any more because I didn't enjoy it, for similar reasons. If this is a risk you no longer wish to take, you may wish to drop your form to keep yourself from being attacked--perhaps after you get your stuff back.
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Zareen Bakara
Posts: 66
12/8/2015
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Personally, I think it's impolite to attack someone whose contact one only has because of the Hallowmas list. Contacts were given there for Hallowmas purposes not to invite hostile actions. However, not everyone's going to agree with this view. Keeping a stance will leave one open to Knife and Candle attacks from people like that. As such, if you won't want something like this to happen again, it might be best to abandon your stance for a time.
You could get your stuff back by attacking in return - the attacker always has a certain advantage in Knife and Candle, though this is modified by the opposed stats. For the record, using your moods does not help in Knife and Candle, to the best of my knowledge. I believe the only stat test is of the specific Knife and Candle stats (elusive, baroque, and savage).
If you're not willing to strike back, the next month should bring you enough prize tokens to replace the knife at least. A month isn't that long. So, while I genuinely understand you feeling shocked and upset, let me comfort you with the thought that it's nothing you can't get back soon enough.
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
12/8/2015
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You didn't lose anything you can't get back.
The game gives away 12 free Prize tokens with a cap of 20 pretty consistently.
Join the Moon League, drop your form and wait. No need to buy a rifle or anything else.
It sounds like the only real loss was the Knife. The only use for the Shroud is K&C tactics, which you didn't want to use anyway.
It's nothing you can't get back for free and nothing you could have sold for Echoes.
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
12/8/2015
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NiteBrite wrote:
I think the issue really is that the iron leagues are setup to be a hardcore zone of cat and mouse that is stacked heavily in favor of long term players. It's meant to facilitate such predatory thefts and behaviors, cutting out otherwise pesky complications of moon duels rules and structure.
In other words, it's totally the wrong place to dump new and helpless players. Ones who don't know they have just entered the hardcore stealth zone. Ones who stay out in the open, unaware they are meant to hide. The iron league is being played correctly I'd say, by people using it to rob and get lots of loot fast, it's just, it's a place you should need to work your way up to once you've become skilled in the moon. I blame the game for having the iron league as default. That's like an adventure game having a default setting of Impossible difficulty. Sure you can turn it down of you know how, but most people are going to start a game assuming it's defaulted to normal difficulty, which just isn't the case with the iron leagues.
edited by NiteBrite on 12/8/2015
I was always under the impression that the Moon League was the more difficult league, so it's interesting to find out it's the opposite. I was totally intimidated by the thought of entering the Moon League, given how utterly awful I was at Iron League. Now I wonder if I should have stuck with it and given it a try. Sounds like I may have had better luck.
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NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
12/8/2015
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Sara Hysaro wrote:
There's nothing wrong with attacking other player with Elusive. It's part of the game, and you can always go up to the Moon League or drop your form to be fully guarded from Iron League theft without losing the free perks that come with the game.
It still hurts though. Especially since its ambush tactics in the Iron League. It's fairer in the Moon Leagues, but I still remember what it felt like to lose waxwail in a duel for the first time. And that was to a close friend who I'd been training up, teaching strategy. One day he noticed I had taught him everything there was about K&C strategy, except how to attack elusive. Spotting this gap in my technique he thought he'd show me the student had surpassed the master and struck my weak point, the blind spot I had willingly left open to my trusted friends. And it hurt you know, and that was even with him giving the stuff back right away and apologizing. So I understand the tearful archaeologist being upset, it's quite an upsetting thing to happen especially since the game doesn't really ever prepare you for it. It blindsides you the first time it happens.
Even when its a consensual moon duel it can be rough. When you add in the anon aspect or the drive by aspect of the iron league it can drive you wild. I had some less than proud moments in my past trying desperately to defend one of the original 100 mirrorboxes for sure, it just drives you mad. Oh man, and probably no one here even remembers how robbing people was practically mandatory for seeking mr eatens name. We had literal witch hunts for people who robbed each other back then. Entire defensive pacts and revenge corps existed, there was even an attack-on-sight list. I don't want to go into too many specifics on how the SMEN stuff worked, but yeah those were dark times. Prize tokens were a lot rarer back then too since there was none of this living story business giving them out like free candy.
I've mitigated the problem by just endlessly grinding. Now I have 3 wails, so the loss of one is never as bad as it once was. And even if I lost everything, there's ample tokens out there to rebuild with. But I think, this is just one more reason its bad to start new players in the Iron Leagues. There's no defense against elusive robbery there in the Iron Leagues. The longer you are there the more guaranteed it becomes you will get robbed, where as you can be as safe as you dare if you are in the moon leagues. So no, there's nothing wrong with committing an elusive attack. And even SMEN dream robbery was what it was. I just don't feel its right for the game to dump new players into the deep end with no warning or ability to defend or to take time to learn. Losing a fair fight hurts, but you move on. Losing an unfair fight is just leaves bitter feelings behind.
edited by NiteBrite on 12/8/2015
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[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
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Passionario
Posts: 777
12/8/2015
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Danko wrote:
You sign a contract with Mr Iron agreeing to attacking and being attacked by the other members.
The 'Underground Leagues' are not sanctioned by Mr. Iron. As far as he and his umpires are concerned, anyone involved in them is just a regular murderer, not a K&C player.
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Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
Passion: Profile, Appearance
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Lady Sapho Byron
Posts: 770
12/8/2015
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Pyrodinium wrote:
Based on the discussion thread, it seems that this whole Irons Leagues affair can go toxic fast.
The Iron Leagues are filled with bounders, scoundrels, miscreants, reprobates, ne'er do wells, villains, cads, varmints, and [censor]ing [censor] [censor]s. Yet our ... er ... their affairs rarely get toxic.
edited by Lady Sapho Byron on 12/8/2015
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Lady%20Sapho%20L%20Byron
Fighting the Menace of Corsetry Since 1892.
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
12/8/2015
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Uhhhhh if losing a sky knife really ruins your day I can arrange for an alt account for you to steal from - just come over to Moon League and I will drop you a duel. Just, like, follow what I said okay?
But like, it is probably a better idea to join the Moon League and hoard your items there - you still get prize tokens and things, and you never suffer from unexpected attacks. I assume you didn't cash in Notability for this.
metasynthie wrote:
I predict that the long-term effect of this thread is that the tearful archaologist will be attacked and robbed again by semi-known acquaintances upon ever stepping foot into the Iron Leagues.
I assume he/she/they aren't using their real player name (tearful from losing the knife) and Danko will be discreet enough not to spread it around (or maybe he stabs people frequently enough to lose count). It's, like, Christmas.
edited by Estelle Knoht on 12/8/2015
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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Pyrodinium
Posts: 639
12/8/2015
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Optimatum wrote:
...
You can join the Moon League from the Gamekeeper's Cottage in Watchmaker's Hill as long as you have a form. Joining the league automatically removes your form, but you can safely take one if you so choose through the weekly Sense of Urgency. (There are many opportunities to change forms at will but this is the only way I know of to gain a form when formless.) The only Moon League social action that automatically accepts is a Golden Hunt, but those can only occur between players who both have a winstreak of at least three, and as with any other hunt participants can withdraw at any time.
Okay. Managed to join the Moon league after getting the Bazaar lodging card. Thanks!
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My profiles: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Pyrodinium
(A Monster hunter on the hunt of his twin brother's killer. Overprotective dad of his twin's daughter)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Rudolph~of~Taured
(an indeterminate person of potentially rubbery lineage)
* All social actions except photographers and loitering welcome!
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lady ciel
Posts: 2548
12/8/2015
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The Iron League can be vicious and newer players are less likely to have the cards that allow them to attack or drop their form very often. I do agree that it is easier to be in the Moon Leagues, it is slower and you can (if you choose to) protect your K&C items and it is a lot easier to step away for a short break if you want to.
To be honest I don't understand people with K&C items risking the elusive attack as there is no guarantee that you will win. If the person who attacks loses they also lose their K&C gear so you might have got a knife (or two); a shroud; a brass ring and a Nephrite Ring. I'm just saying it could have gone the other way.
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ciel
Sorry RL means I am not a very active player at the moment. No social actions unless you are prepared to wait and definitely no sparring or other mult-action things.
No Calling Cards or boxed cats please. Will take dupes on the affluent photographers. Other social invitations welcome. Parabolan Kittens usually available, send me an in-game social action saying you want one and I will get one to you as soon as possible.
storynexus name - reveurciel
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Lady Sapho Byron
Posts: 770
12/8/2015
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Pyrodinium wrote:
So I received a token from uh... a generous player. I haven't done anything with it although it makes the "a polite invitation" opp card cost 2 actions more. What should I do with it? Are there NPC's that I can fight with it instead. I don't like fighting with players (in this game anyways).
Yes, there is a generic NPC you can attack, although the results are rather bland compared to attacking a PC. HOWEVER, to do so you must have a 'form;' and having a form means you can be attacked at any time by a fellow K&C player. Joining K&C in and of itself does not open you to attack and you can acquire, via Tth and selling Notability, all the K&C goodies without ever attacking or taking a form.
The polite invitation does cost more; in exchange it gives you a very small Talk of the Town boost (+3 CP as opposed to +2CP, I believe?).
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Lady%20Sapho%20L%20Byron
Fighting the Menace of Corsetry Since 1892.
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Zareen Bakara
Posts: 66
12/8/2015
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Perhaps I am soft-hearted too, but I tend to agree in not understanding someone who would use Elusive to attack when they have multiple of a type of item. However, this game has people with all kinds of goals. Sometimes people choose to acquire a certain number of a type of item, for roleplaying reasons. And, while you have a stance, there's nothing you can really do to protect yourself from someone who might attack for this reason. So your best bet is probably now to abandon your stance. If you have enough tokens to buy a Chrysalis Candle, you can do that right away. You'll still be considered to be in the game, just taking a break and thus not open to attack.
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An authoress of Persian and Abyssinian origins, come to London on a personal matter. http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Zareen~Bakara
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Passionario
Posts: 777
12/7/2015
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Live by the candle, die by the knife.
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Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
Passion: Profile, Appearance
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Parelle
Posts: 1084
12/7/2015
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Honestly, try contacting him via private messaging on this forum. I believe he's active here?
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Parelle, Lady Joseph Marlen. The Singular Librarian. A Midnighter, a Player of the Marvelous.
pages from a dusty bookshop: a badly updated FL changelog | Useful Guidance and Explanations
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ganjalf91
Posts: 87
12/7/2015
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How did he know if you never attacked anyone?
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Ganjalf91
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
12/8/2015
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In the interest of fairness, the Hallowmas list probably added a large amount of contacts to his list. Keeping track of them all would be rather difficult. But it is rather impolite to ignore someone trying to talk to you.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
Posts: 1372
12/8/2015
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Zareen Bakara wrote:
For the record, using your moods does not help in Knife and Candle, to the best of my knowledge. I believe the only stat test is of the specific Knife and Candle stats (elusive, baroque, and savage).
No, but mood cards allow you to attack in the Iron League.
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Social Actions: send them to Kade Carrion (she/her; no Tournament of Lilies, please). an_ocelot has gone NORTH and cannot benefit from social actions!
Possibly-Useful Things: Spreadsheets and hints and link collections, oh my.
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
12/8/2015
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Parelle wrote:
To be fair, there was also a loss of 30 Echoes in Brass Rings and the feeling of time wasted.
5 Brass Rings? Last time I lost an Elusive contest, I just lost one at a time. Does an Elusive loss take all your K&C items now?
I'm not saying that losing a Sky Knife doesn't suck, but in a couple of weeks when you get another one, you won't care. In a few months, you won't even remember.
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The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
12/8/2015
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Pyrodinium wrote:
So I received a token from uh... a generous player. I haven't done anything with it although it makes the "a polite invitation" opp card cost 2 actions more. What should I do with it? Are there NPC's that I can fight with it instead. I don't like fighting with players (in this game anyways).
As others have said, you can join the moon league to duel and perhaps acquire prizes without risk of surprise. You can also take a form and then drop it; you'll still be eligible for receiving the 12 prize tokens each month when you have under 20. Note that dying while in the Iron League removes all your iron knife tokens and victories, necessitating joining from scratch again, whereas being in the moon league prevents being kicked out for dying.
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
12/8/2015
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Pyrodinium wrote:
Optimatum wrote:
Pyrodinium wrote:
So I received a token from uh... a generous player. I haven't done anything with it although it makes the "a polite invitation" opp card cost 2 actions more. What should I do with it? Are there NPC's that I can fight with it instead. I don't like fighting with players (in this game anyways).
As others have said, you can join the moon league to duel and perhaps acquire prizes without risk of surprise. You can also take a form and then drop it; you'll still be eligible for receiving the 12 prize tokens each month when you have under 20. Note that dying while in the Iron League removes all your iron knife tokens and victories, necessitating joining from scratch again, whereas being in the moon league prevents being kicked out for dying.
Moon league sounds like a safer area to play with. How does one join it? I assume I can grind for prizes while in there.
Based on the discussion thread, it seems that this whole Irons Leagues affair can go toxic fast.
You can join the Moon League from the Gamekeeper's Cottage in Watchmaker's Hill as long as you have a form. Joining the league automatically removes your form, but you can safely take one if you so choose through the weekly Sense of Urgency. (There are many opportunities to change forms at will but this is the only way I know of to gain a form when formless.) The only Moon League social action that automatically accepts is a Golden Hunt, but those can only occur between players who both have a winstreak of at least three, and as with any other hunt participants can withdraw at any time.
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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