Hannah Flynn
Administrator
Posts: 491
11/9/2015
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"You unlocked this with 110 Calamitous Bloatworms (you needed 50)"
Hurray! You can begin the Bloatworm Picnic. But what will happen to those 50 bloatworms? Will you see this message?
"You've lost 50 x Calamitous Bloatworms (new total 60)"
or this?
"You've lost 10 x Calamitous Bloatworms (new total 100)"
or will you keep them all?
We've all been there; we all know how hard it is to manage your Bloatworms (and Rostygold, and Connected: the Church, and so on) with the Fallen London UI. So we're rolling out a change to make it clearer. Once the change is complete, any unlocks where you keep the quality ('Requirements') will be marked with a little padlock, and any where you use up the quality ('Costs') will be marked with a little price tag.
Q. I can see the change in the UI, but not many things seem to have become Costs yet.
Yup, the UI change comes ahead of all the furkling in the back end we need to do to make this work.
Q. Why a price tag? why not a little pile of coins / cross / greyed out icon?
We tested loads! it's really hard to find something that says 'this will be spent', especially cross-culture. We're always up for more suggestions, though.
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Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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+18
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metasynthie
Posts: 645
11/9/2015
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Very nice change for clarity! I imagine you'll still have a price tag for situations where the requirement is more, or less, than the cost? (Casing and Someone is Coming being examples of each.) And secret costs that aren't mentioned in the requirement, things that get deducted if you happen to have any... I suspect those will still be secret?
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Positively antique
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
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Agatha Kizmesis
Posts: 32
11/9/2015
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This is one of those updates I hadn't realized I needed until I had it. Many thanks to Failbetter Games, as per usual 
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Agatha~Kizmesis
Agatha Kizmesis: A Machiavellian zee captain, neddy woman, and actually a rather nice person.
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+2
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Maximilian Datterpie
Posts: 9
11/9/2015
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I approve everything about this. Good job!
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Maximilian's Profile: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Maximilian~Datterpie
- Enjoys honey dreaming, wines and homicide. He does accept each and any social action given to him, except the ones with that pesky Affluent Photographer.
- He's always up to a good exchange of opinions in the light of a candle and a knife, if there is moonlight.
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
11/9/2015
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Thanks for the informative and hilarious explanation XD
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Docteur
Posts: 101
11/9/2015
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I couldn't phrase it better than Agatha. Thanks! 
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The Viric Voice! A beautiful instrument.
Docteur - And so it ends.
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
11/9/2015
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Hannah Flynn wrote:
Once the change is complete, any unlocks where you keep the quality ('Requirements') will be marked with a little padlock, and any where you use up the quality ('Costs') will be marked with a little price tag.
It'd be really nice if the padlocks / tags get a mouseover letting you know that you will keep or consume quality, since not everyone goes to the forums.
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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Hannah Flynn
Administrator
Posts: 491
11/9/2015
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Estelle Knoht wrote:
Hannah Flynn wrote:
Once the change is complete, any unlocks where you keep the quality ('Requirements') will be marked with a little padlock, and any where you use up the quality ('Costs') will be marked with a little price tag.
It'd be really nice if the padlocks / tags get a mouseover letting you know that you will keep or consume quality, since not everyone goes to the forums.
We've put a banner on the game directing people here for the full explanation. We're not planning on adding any tooltips for these.
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Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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malthaussen
Posts: 1060
11/9/2015
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I originally read that last line as "we tested toads," which raises all sorts of interesting images...
-- Mal
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"Of two choices, I always take the third."
Will do all socials except Loitering or Private Evenings (all my Free Evenings are accounted for), and Affluent Photographer Betrayals only, please. I am not currently accepting calling cards.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/malthaussen
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+3
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Agatha Kizmesis
Posts: 32
11/9/2015
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malthaussen wrote:
I originally read that last line as "we tested toads," which raises all sorts of interesting images...
-- Mal
I suspect that the toad testing led to accurate results, since there isn't much difference between our intelligence and theirs 
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Agatha~Kizmesis
Agatha Kizmesis: A Machiavellian zee captain, neddy woman, and actually a rather nice person.
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+1
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kitsune9tails
Posts: 2
11/9/2015
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This sounds great. Looking forward to it actually working. I agree with the above poster that different price tags (maybe by color?) can indicate whether a price will be all, some, or more than you currently have.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Kitsune9tails
Pleasure is it's own reward. But ware the cost.
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Shalinoth
Posts: 493
11/9/2015
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Great move towards clarity of consequences!
I echo metasynth's concern over hidden-cost scenarios. I'd say some times it's even necessary to hide exact costs, or the in-character risk would be removed entirely. Of course the most shrewd player can wiki outcomes.
But where the cost is going to be significant I would always consider erring on the side of openness rather than hiding exactly what will be spent. Gameplay text can help there since tooltips won't be part of this, and the new option seems binary rather than a colour-coded indication of scaling costs.
Thanks for improving a great game!
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Profiles: Shally, Chimes & Jack~of~Smiles . . . Current Goal: 
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Shalinoth
Posts: 493
11/9/2015
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Hunting beasts and those like it will be interesting to see implemented with this. Since it requires less stat to see the option than it does to play the option.
I for one will be glad to see a price-tag / unlock symbol next to anything that involves Connected: Masters. Losing their quality is a kicker! (Though Hallowmas has greatly boosted it, hehe..)
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Profiles: Shally, Chimes & Jack~of~Smiles . . . Current Goal:
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Shalinoth
Posts: 493
11/9/2015
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On a related note, what about Luck-based actions such as the Carnival Masters option? There, the RNG determines whether it is spent or gained. So only after the fact can we know whether the price of opening that box was loss or not. Schroedinger's lockbox! With an uncertainty pricetag. hah.
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Profiles: Shally, Chimes & Jack~of~Smiles . . . Current Goal:
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ashdenej
Posts: 66
11/9/2015
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Excellent! So with, say, actions in the Flit - where you'll need 15 Casing to unlock robbing the Bazaar, but 20 to get a certainty, will it say that the action will take all of your Casing, no matter what?
Actually: I, ah, have misclicked more than once in the past, losing more than 100 levels of Casing because I'm rather silly. Is there any way to make it so the "Rob the Etcetera" actions only take... maybe double the minimum needed to guarantee success? 40 levels of Casing would be rather less punishing than everything a hoarder might have. Although this is perhaps not quite the most relevant thread to be asking this, I now realise!
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metasynthie
Posts: 645
11/9/2015
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Casing is an interesting usability example, because some choices that require it will take only part of your Casing (like Thefts of Exceptional Character) in varying amounts depending on whether you succeed or fail at a quality check, while others set your Casing to 0 no matter how much you have, like ashdenej says. I guess this goes to show: adding some information to an interface like this to clarify it reveals further ambiguities that might mislead people! It's a bit of a wormcan.
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Positively antique
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
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+1
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Shalinoth
Posts: 493
11/9/2015
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Yes the set-to-zero consequences are a nightmare for quality hoarders
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Profiles: Shally, Chimes & Jack~of~Smiles . . . Current Goal:
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th8827
Posts: 823
11/9/2015
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This sounds useful. I value my large supply of hoarded Calamitous Bloatworms, and don't want to use too many at once.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/th8827
Gone NORTH. It's nice here.
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+4
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Shalinoth
Posts: 493
11/9/2015
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Hannah, in your example you differentiated between losing all 50 or only 10. But the Unlock/Price-tag is binary, right? So the uncertainty of whether we lose all requirements or just some remains.
But at least we know if -any- or none are lost. That's a great improvement.
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Profiles: Shally, Chimes & Jack~of~Smiles . . . Current Goal:
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
11/9/2015
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It's gonna be a day or two before I get used to the new icon everywhere, but overall I like the addition!
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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