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CHRISTMAS IN THE NEATH: A GUIDE Messages in this topic - RSS

Deatheye
Deatheye
Posts: 67

12/28/2015
day 4 is fate day what do thope options actually do? wich ones gives most tol?

I got 4 Tol will I be able to get my longbox?
edited by Deatheye on 12/28/2015

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Shalinoth
Shalinoth
Posts: 508

12/28/2015
According to Candle Blog, last year they gave these epic rewards. [Click]

But my question is which Sacks-Day does each one resolve on? i.e. what does each miss out on by playing their fate story to completion?

I know that the Urchins one resolved on Day 10, preventing one from acquiring a Parabola Linen.

EDIT: That resolve-day info is in the Wiki I think. From what I can see, the factions use the following days as story options (replacing your usual Mr Sacks choices those days if you choose to pursue them, and needing resolved / item collected on the latest day noted)

Scholars = Day 5, 9 & 12 (?)
Revolutionaries = Day 6 & 11
Duchess = Day 6 & Penstock's Wicket
Urchins = Day 7 & 10
Widow = Day 7 & Penstock's Wicket
Docks = Day 9 & Penstock's Wicket

I confess I'm confused about some of these Fate faction choices requiring you to spend different Mr Sacks days on them, missing out on Masters gain, Lacre and rare items - but perhaps hidden within those faction choices is much better gains? It's been too long since I played through the Urchins and Revolutionary Fate content of Mr Sacks. I just remember being glad that I did, mainly because it suited those characters who played them, and the epic items didn't hurt. smile

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edited by Shalinoth on 12/28/2015
edited by Shalinoth on 1/6/2016

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Deatheye
Deatheye
Posts: 67

12/28/2015
I thouth fate based contet is not on the wiki

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Grenem
Grenem
Posts: 2067

12/28/2015
Deatheye wrote:
I thouth fate based contet is not on the wiki

Well, sort of- anything related to fate locked content isn't allowed on the wiki- but if you can see it all without paying fate or journal diving, then it's allowed.

So if there's a visible "This requires the sheperd's timepiece" storylet, even to those without one, then you can mention where it is, though not what's behind it. (the sheperd's timepiece is a fate-locked item)

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Deatheye
Deatheye
Posts: 67

12/28/2015
btw why is fate based content on the wicki not allowed?

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NiteBrite
NiteBrite
Posts: 1019

12/28/2015
The Wiki's existence is already tenuous at best. If FBG wanted to issue s take down notice, they could. Their game is largely made of words and putting those words elsewhere is a potential threat to their copyright if they don't challenge it. So they made a fanworks guideline rules for to help guide players and creators on how not to violate copy right. We all want the wiki to continue to exist right? So play by the rules and don't post fate content there, it's what FBG requires of us.

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Theus
Theus
Posts: 311

12/28/2015
NiteBrite wrote:
The Wiki's existence is already tenuous at best. If FBG wanted to issue s take down notice, they could. Their game is largely made of words and putting those words elsewhere is a potential threat to their copyright if they don't challenge it. So they made a fanworks guideline rules for to help guide players and creators on how not to violate copy right. We all want the wiki to continue to exist right? So play by the rules and don't post fate content there, it's what FBG requires of us.



I wouldn't say "tenuous." The 1.5 wikis we have are officially blessed. The wiki admins and FBG staff collaborate to provide something for the player base for which there is a demand, in a way that doesn't antagonize Fallen London's business model. Typically this collaboration is to optimize usefulness to players seeking a resource while continuing to operate in good faith, as Fallen London sells story, not gameplay.

This relationship is strong enough that FBG actually proactively reached out to us before Sunless Sea launched to talk about how to handle the Sunless Sea wiki. (Mods, feel free to squelch if anything in here is too back-stagey, or was shared in confidence and I've just forgotten that detail.)

Edit to add: the FBG staff don't approve what is added, and we essentially have as much editorial control any wiki editors can when discussing someone else's IP. The collaboration is more like "we know how to reach whom if anyone has concerns about anything." (omgethics)
edited by Theus on 12/28/2015

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Shalinoth
Shalinoth
Posts: 508

12/28/2015
NiteBrite wrote:
The Wiki's existence is already tenuous at best. If FBG wanted to issue s take down notice, they could. Their game is largely made of words and putting those words elsewhere is a potential threat to their copyright if they don't challenge it. So they made a fanworks guideline rules for to help guide players and creators on how not to violate copy right. We all want the wiki to continue to exist right? So play by the rules and don't post fate content there, it's what FBG requires of us.



What I meant was, you can see that there is a fate-based choice on certain days, but the wiki will not tell you what the choice's rewards are. In terms of organising your Mr Sacks days, though, the wiki can tell you on what days your Fate purchase will require action. It just won't tell you the action itself, or the outcome. So that's in keeping with the spirit of it. It's merely a placeholder to say "this branch contains a fate storylet along with non-fate options".

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NiteBrite
NiteBrite
Posts: 1019

12/28/2015
I meant it in the sense that the wiki still exists -because- of the rules, not in spite of them. If the wiki as a whole started ignoring FBG and breaking FBG rules and posted full text and fate content, it probably wouldn't survive. When a copyright holder issues a take down notice to wikia, they usually oblige. I mean the word tenuous in the sense that the rules are the only thin thread keeping it around. If they ever did choose to pull the rug out from under you, you wouldn't really have a leg to stand on. Fair use only gets you so far when a majority of the wiki content is straight up copy paste. But you are right to say that a strong relationship, built upon trust that you intend in good faith to follow these vital rules, is beneficial.
edited by NiteBrite on 12/28/2015

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Theus
Theus
Posts: 311

12/28/2015
Ah, yes. I can now see that to be quite accurate from that perspective. I hope you didn't mind me sharing my own. I was a little worried about people feeling like the wikis were either illicit or operating under constant threat.

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12/28/2015
Shalinoth wrote:
According to Candle Blog, last year they gave these epic rewards. [Click]

But my question is which Sacks-Day does each one resolve on? i.e. what does each miss out on by playing their fate story to completion?

I know that the Urchins one resolved on Day 10, preventing one from acquiring a Parabola Linen.

EDIT: That resolve-day info is in the Wiki I think. From what I can see, the factions use the following days as story options (replacing your usual Mr Sacks choices those days if you choose to pursue them, and needing resolved / item collected on the latest day noted)

Scholars = Day 5, 9 & 12 (?)
Revolutionaries = Day 6 & 11
Duchess = Day 6 & Penstock's Wicket
Urchins = Day 7
Widow = Day 7 & Penstock's Wicket
Docks = Day 9 & Penstock's Wicket

I confess I'm confused about some of these Fate faction choices requiring you to spend different Mr Sacks days on them, missing out on Masters gain, Lacre and rare items - but perhaps hidden within those faction choices is much better gains? It's been too long since I played through the Urchins and Revolutionary Fate content of Mr Sacks. I just remember being glad that I did, mainly because it suited those characters who played them, and the epic items didn't hurt. smile

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edited by Shalinoth on 12/28/2015

While some may debate if certain rewards are "better or worse" than harder to get things like Connected: Masters, overall yes, the rewards are much better with up to hundreds of echoes worth/cannot get elsewhere of a high end item in the end-story part of fate-Locked Mr. Sacks items. Any outcomes that also offer the highest-cost items and/or Lacre gain are also represented by the higher-Fate costs. (You may use the quoted link to see those, and I will not discuss fate-Locked items here and generally like to In its thread only, and always with Spoiler tags.)


I'll just skip the Wiki debate which the answer is clear on not listing Fate-Locked rewards, but notes where they happen, should one wish to spend for certain things.


Edit: BTW, anybody know how long for Mr. Sacks cards to convert into storyettes and where that happens?
edited by the truthseeker on 12/28/2015
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Ridagoth
Ridagoth
Posts: 86

12/28/2015
Chris Gardiner wrote:
We retire the Snowbound effect on Time the Healer for a few days over Christmas to ease the support burden while most of us are off. It'll return for another flurry in a few days!

Awesome, thank you for the update! It's similar to having a 'dark week' for a show one may watch as the season is progressing. I'll update my own observational post to reflect this! I hope you guys have a smooth break and ease into things on Jan 4! I understand making that call to put a halt on the event because of time off for the staff and seeing some type of response offered a resolution for the situation, thank you. I was not around if this happened last year, but I am glad we can be aware that a break is a possibility for the future.

Also, I'll add the things ganjalf91 and Parelle mentioned how Time the Healer was adjusted for individuals when the season began too. That is some funky business and definitely something to be aware of in case it happens again next year.

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NiteBrite
NiteBrite
Posts: 1019

12/28/2015
Chris Gardiner wrote:
We retire the Snowbound effect on Time the Healer for a few days over Christmas to ease the support burden while most of us are off. It'll return for another flurry in a few days!

You probably got more bug reports due to the unexpected change than you would have if it had been left alone haha. If you all need a break, a little heads up goes a long way ;-)

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suinicide
suinicide
Posts: 2458

12/28/2015
Can anyone say if the fate-locked parts of day 4 cost anything besides lost opportunities? Like if one will lose you some connections or something.

Edit: Mostly I'm thinking about taking the docks path. But it I'll end up kicking the mr sacks out, and I'd rather not lose any connected masters due to a fate story.
edited by suinicide on 12/28/2015

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metasynthie
metasynthie
Posts: 645

12/28/2015
They generally gain you connections for the faction that you're helping, and don't reduce any other connections. The main thing you miss out on is other opportunities on the day (or days) you have to finish your mission, which in the case of Docks means you miss one potential pail of snow, or an Antique Mystery.

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Deatheye
Deatheye
Posts: 67

12/28/2015
well I chosed the douchess what am I missing out on and what am I gaining? a post on top said id get 4 tol

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RandomWalker
RandomWalker
Posts: 948

12/28/2015
You will, eventually. One Sacksmas day will have to be spent as per directions from your patron(ess), and that will give ToL. When the Wicket opens, you will need to spend some of that ToL to earn the final reward, but favouring the Duchess should result in a net gain of 4 ToL and a very nice (and expensive) weapon.
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Shalinoth
Shalinoth
Posts: 508

12/29/2015
I've also come to the conclusion that there's likely nothing worth skipping Fate-faction options during Mr Sacks days.

Whilst the three 12-Fate ones technically conclude in the Wicket, do they require us to play their mid-Sacks day stories to resolve their "honour your promise" parts?

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Theus
Theus
Posts: 311

12/29/2015
maleclypse wrote:
Hey just a question here about the above statement. Does copyright work differently in the UK than in the US? ...


I appreciate the query here, but I'd like to discourage armchair lawyering. In this specific case, I happen to know all parties are solid with the legal nuances under the current fan guidelines in which we operate, and i'd be hard pressed to see any (well-intentioned!) discussion of IP and laws changing the status quo (again, in this specific case.)

We've had a bit of a divergence from the thread here, and I wanted to initially address a small comment I thought could negatively impact the fanbase's use of the current wikis.

Far be it from me to tell other people how to communicate on the internet, but if I could save someone's time and brainpower on an already settled matter, then the better for it.

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navchaa
navchaa
Posts: 575

12/29/2015
I've a question - I've been pretty lucky with the urchins this season and now have 15 pails of snow. It's my first Sacksmas and I want to get the 5 card lodgings (Brass Embassy, since I've lost my soul for it) and the remote lodgings. Is there any point in going for a Noman and his tattoo at this stage? I have 3 tears of the bazaar.

Assuming that I don't go for the tattoo, what do I do with so many pails of snow? And should I keep collecting them? (I still have enough for another 2 or 3 more pails.)

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