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Bitten off more than I can chew for Hallowmas... Messages in this topic - RSS

BlakeTheDrake
BlakeTheDrake
Posts: 237

11/5/2015
Sometimes, really obvious things don't occur to you until it's too late. Particularly if you're pushing towards a goal with singleminded determination. In this case, my goal was to reach the 500-point reward for Hallowmas, despite this being my first time at it, and thus having no old secrets to devour for bonus-points. So I threw myself into it with aplomb! Sending invitations to those on the list whenever I had actions to spare from answering those I'd gotten already! I knew I had to build up a huge stock of invitations before the week ran out. And I did!

So the good news is that I've already got more than enough Confessions to reach 500. The bad news is that a simple problem evaded me: Each invitation sent cost 3 actions, and was reciprocated. I spent an entire week doing nothing but sending requests. Now I've got an entire week to answer those I received... and each takes between 4 and 6 actions. Since I have the same number of actions available this week as I had last week, well... those numbers don't add up very nicely. =_=

In my defense, I didn't know that the Message-list hides messages past a certain number 'till just recently, so my list always looked manageable. But despite having gone all-out since just before the end of confession-time, that list is still just as long as when I started. And I still need to turn all the Confessions I've already received into Spirit before the end arrives. It seems increasingly certain that it will be impossible for me to finish my list... though of course, I'll do my damndest to reach as many as I possibly can. When, exactly, does the event expire, anyway?

*sigh* Anyway, if you sent me a request for confessions, and have yet to see it answered... you might wind up disappointed. Come to think of it, I should probably cancel all my own outstanding requests, since I'm already at the goal - and there's no use for extra Spirit or Confessions once you've hit 500, right? I'm just afraid it'll seem... rude. >_>

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NiteBrite
NiteBrite
Posts: 1019

11/6/2015
When I was designing this system, FBG had never told us the schedule for sending or accepting. And it was always a much shorter sending period and a much longer accepting period. Accepting was available for weeks, until like December, in the past. So the new schedule really threw off the balance in my advice (which was send send send, you have all the time in the world to accept) leading to this new issue of flooded inboxes and not enough time to accept them all.

Please do not worry too much over this issue, it is more a systematic error on my part than anything you or others did which lead to this situation. To get 500 spirit you only need to send and accept about 46 requests per year. If you've accepted enough confessions to notice your inbox is overflowing, you have already greatly exceeded that target, for yourself and for others. And I find that commendable. Thank you all for your contributions to this holiday event. I advise, its good to help others, but do not forget to take care of yourself as well. Have you cashed in your confessions quality yet? Did your weekly profession payment arrive? It's okay to take a break from the grind and take care of yourself and needs.

I'm hoping everyone had such a good time that they will be understanding that not every confession can be reciprocated. If you are spending 140 actions a day every day for a week, you are honestly going above and beyond the call of duty. That's something to be proud of, and you are a great value to this community and this event for caring so much to take the time to grind for the sake of others.

To all who work hard and struggle with a list that is far too long, I commend you all for your kindness and excellence in service. And I apologize for not getting my advice updated for the new situation and schedule which we found ourselves in this year. I will work hard to try and prepare better for next year.

edited by NiteBrite on 11/6/2015

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NiteBrite
NiteBrite
Posts: 1019

11/6/2015
I think its clear here there was no malicious intent with the cancellations. Hallowmas is a fast and frenzied holiday and it can be very difficult to keep track of who has accepted what. Mzingalwa was clear that they could only accept a specific type of confession, so it is understandable possibly even predictable that the cancellations happened when the stated preference was ignored. What you describe Nigel would have been the ideal solution, to decrease wounds and nightmares so that you don't get pride requests, but sometimes that can be hard to avoid. Especially hard to avoid if you don't understand why people are sending you pride confessions when you asked them not to. I'd chalk this whole thing down to a simple misunderstanding exacerbated by the fast pace of the holiday and the lack of any developed etiquette rules for such situations prior to the start of this holiday.

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BlakeTheDrake
BlakeTheDrake
Posts: 237

11/9/2015
Well, this thread wound up being more far-reaching than I'd expected when I made it just to moan about the impossibility of accepting all my Confessions-requests... but I thought I'd just jump in at this point to put an ending on the story: Right now, with a couple of hours to go on the event, I cleared my inbox! Big Grin

...well, mostly. I've got one outstanding confession from someone called 'Scienceandponies', which I can't accept because they are 'in the wrong place to do that'... perhaps they lost control of their menaces? 's been that way since yesterday, and is unlikely to change before the end, but c'est la vie - nothing I can do about it. >_>

Anyway, with a massive amount of help from my good friend Lady Eris, and quite a bit from random well-wishers (or, y'know, poisoners and betrayers), I managed it. A few of the last ones turned out to be duplicates, and I was able to clear another couple after reading the thread about high- and low-priority confessions.... it all helped. So now I can welcome the end of the feast, and accept my 500-spirit prize with a clean conscience. ^_^

All will be well and all manner of things will be well!

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Nigel Overstreet
Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220

11/6/2015
NiteBrite wrote:
I think its clear here there was no malicious intent with the cancellations.

I don't think that's clear at all. I didn't have any interaction, but according to about a dozen people, Mzingalwa waited until they had accepted his request before he cancelled his. He continued to do this over several days.
Moreover, not everyone reads the list as intricately as we all might like. some might not even read it at all and just happened to be your contact anyway.
But, if someone sent you a Pride request you knew you couldn't reciprocate, you could then cancel that Pride as it was received or when you knew you couldn't accept them. That way the person could then either send you a Whimsy request or not and just Decline your request as well.

I understand that Hallowmas is a crazy time and lots of mistakes happen, but if you're going to take someone's confession and then refuse to give yours, I feel you owe that person an apology.

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Lady Eris
Lady Eris
Posts: 162

11/6/2015
Do you know, I think this is a lovely thread. It demonstrates what a supportive community we have. We've got people genuinely concerned that they might be letting other people down. People grinding menaces round the clock to meet what they see as their obligations. People offering advice, and reassurance, and using their own actions to send menaces to support people grinding. People withdrawing their own requests to ease the burden on the overloaded.

It's a lovely thing. The true Spirit of Hallowmas, if you like. It's great to be part of it.

BlakeTheDrake, if you need help generating Scandal, Lady Eris is at your service. (Just don't tell her husband. Ahem.)

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Ysrthgrathe
Ysrthgrathe
Posts: 87

11/5/2015
Canceling all your outstanding requests seems pretty unfair to me.
There ist time till the 8. to accept them. Two more day "waisting" actions wouldn't hurt too much, right?

At least that's what I will do, although I also have no use for extra Spirit.
edited by Ysrthgrathe on 11/5/2015

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Det
Det
Posts: 48

11/6/2015
First of all, if you did not want to get Pride requests, staying low on one menace during Hallomass was pretty easy. Second, when i get a request "At the Feast of Masks, Mzingalwa wore a golden skull and carried an unlit candle. Softly, they invited you to confess an error of pride." without any comments inside, i naturally try to send back the same request. And the most important thing: waiting for someone to accept a request and only after that cancelling is really really really insulting. Even in a message here there isn't a single statement of apology or even simply "Sorry".

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babelfishwars
babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152

11/8/2015
I'm a little late to the thread, but to a few posters above - let's not have a trial of anyone's possible motivations or intentions, or whether adequate apologies have been given (or required), please. There is no way this can go anywhere good.

Thank you.

edited by babelfishwars on 11/8/2015

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thedeadlymoose
thedeadlymoose
Posts: 214

11/5/2015
You and ... a lot of people.

Thing that didn't occur to me either until it was too late: It can easily take over double the amount of actions to accept a confession as to send it. And that's if you're careful.

This didn't come up last season for me because there simply weren't enough people available.

There are a few things you can do:

Sign up in this thread to get poisoned and/or duped: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic20921-hallowmas-idea-get-your-poison-here.aspx?messageid=115473#post

Why's that a good idea? Because math-wise, with being duped or poisoned, you can get down to only four actions total to accept any confession. That won't solve your problem, but it will help if you want to accept as many as possible. It will help a /lot/.

(on that note, thank you to all the amazing people in there, some of whom are currently saving my confessions already~)

Your other option may be: send a feedback request to FBG to ask them to extend the event. (Hey, you never know!)

Nota bene: No one knows if there's a use for Spirit over 500. There may or may not be something at 1000, for example. Unless FBG has confirmed/denied this elsewhere and I missed it (entirely possible).

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Nigel Overstreet
Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220

11/5/2015
Curious Foreigner wrote:
Edit: Seems it was clear what was meant after all, and this post was pointless.
No, it's an important distinction to make.
I wrote a long, scalding screed because I misunderstood it before I realized I misunderstood it. My reading comprehension may have been compromised.
I think if you've realized you're in over your head, it probably is best to cancel request you've sent so you can concentrate on accepting the requests you have. Overall, it's a much more polite and selfless act than to simply not reciprocate all requests when you can.
I applaud Blake for recognizing this limitation sooner rather than later.

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Danko
Danko
Posts: 142

11/6/2015
Aw, come on, Nite. This is not your mistake on any part. Everyone knows you did a great job this Hallowmas. It's been fun!

And thank you for your kind words!

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Lady Eris
Lady Eris
Posts: 162

11/6/2015
Danko wrote:
Aw, come on, Nite. This is not your mistake on any part. Everyone knows you did a great job this Hallowmas. It's been fun!




Absolutely what Danko says, NiteBrite - you've been a total star. You gave the best advice with the information you had, and it's worked out brilliantly for practically everyone. I know I would never have had a prayer of 500 spirit without you - even my alt has hit 250!
edited by Lady Eris on 11/6/2015

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William Templeton, Viscount Manningham, newcomer, gentleman, all-round good egg - accepting absolutely all invitations.
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Schmidt
Schmidt
Posts: 114

11/6/2015
Agreed. Brite went above and beyond here. Also... I find myself in the same over-ambitious boat as Drake I'm afraid. I shall be cancelling my outstanding requests to folks in order to ease their load.

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A B Nile
A B Nile
Posts: 414

11/9/2015
babelfishwars wrote:
I'm a little late to the thread, but to a few posters above - let's not have a trial of anyone's possible motivations or intentions, or whether adequate apologies have been given (or required), please. There is no way this can go anywhere good.

Thank you.

edited by babelfishwars on 11/8/2015


Trials are so fun though! No? Oh...

*puts away pitchfork*

*douses flaming torch*

*dismisses mob*

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Sara Hysaro
Sara Hysaro
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Posts: 4514

11/6/2015
Everyone please calm down.

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Nigel Overstreet
Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220

11/6/2015
Sara Hysaro wrote:
Everyone please calm down.

You're right. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as untoward.
this isn't really something that needed to be addressed publicly.
I apologize.

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dov
dov
Posts: 2580

11/6/2015
As one of those who was supposedly "harmed" by this, I'll repeat what I wrote earlier:

Either way it doesn't much matter at this point. When confessing to hundreds of strangers, there are bound to be some disappointments. No real harm done.

Let's all move on.

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dov
dov
Posts: 2580

11/6/2015
Indeed, the timing is suspicious, as is the fact that the requests canceled were those of people who have already confessed themselves.

Also, when I request confessions, my default is Whimsy, unless the person requested otherwise (i.e. if it said "all", I'd choose Whimsy). My notes say that I've requested from Mzingalwa a confession of Pride and I only went for Pride when this was explicitly listed in the list as the preferred confession. NiteBrite's docs aren't available anymore to confirm, though.

Of course, this could be all a mistake (maybe I looked at the wrong line in the doc when sending the request, maybe it's just an unfortunate timing that Mzingalwa canceled requests right after those players confessed, etc.).

Either way it doesn't much matter at this point. When confessing to hundreds of strangers, there are bound to be some disappointments. No real harm done.

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Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
Posts: 1372

11/6/2015
Goodness knows I've been cranky over social stuff on this forum before, but I agree with NiteBrite, and hope people remember that the pressures of this event may be heightening emotional reactions all around.

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Nigel Overstreet
Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220

11/6/2015
mzingalwa wrote:
I ended up cancelling some of the requests that I have received on account of the sheer volume. I sent out a vast number of requests, not expecting all of them to be responded to, and have received far more than I can possibly respond to by the 9th. I'm still trying to respond to as many of the remaining ones as I can out of politeness, but I cancelled some of the Pride requests that I received as I specified that I would prefer whimsy requests.

You ended up canceling requests almost the very instance that yours happened to be accepted.
If you knew you couldn't reciprocate all requests, you should have cancelled the ones you sent as well. You could have at least cancelled requests that had not been accepted so yours could have be rejected as well.
If you weren't prepared to accept Pride requests, you should have decreased your Wounds or Nightmares so they'd stop incoming.

I think you owe a large number of people a very personal apology.
.
edited by Nigel Overstreet on 11/6/2015

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malthaussen
malthaussen
Posts: 1060

11/7/2015
Cecil: Due to the bug in Confessions discussed elsewhere, I am withdrawing my Confession offer to you (which you probably wouldn't get to anyway, as it was sent early the first day). Since I can't bury it anyway, no point in locking you out for next year.

-- Mal

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Ysrthgrathe
Ysrthgrathe
Posts: 87

11/5/2015
Sorry, I also thought you were talking about Confessions sent <b>to you</b>. Canceling Confessions requests sent by you is perfectly fine for me. In fact it is actually quite generous and helpful.


I beg to remain, Sir, your most humble and obedient servant,
Ysrthgrathe
edited by Ysrthgrathe on 11/5/2015

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An Individual
An Individual
Posts: 589

11/6/2015
This is an easy trap to fall into. The UI doesn't help with tracking so I've gotten into the habit of taking detailed notes of my own during these social action events and, thankfully, having those numbers helped me realized I needed to pull back and start filling requests a few days before the event ended. At this point just do the best you can.

BlakeTheDrake wrote:
Incidentally, in order to 'devour' a confession the following year, does it need to have been consigned to the Bazaar/gossiped to the Masters? Or can they just be left untreated?


I believe confessions are only devourable in future years if you consign them to the bazaar or bury them. Gossiping with the masters and flaunting them definitely lock that off. I'm not 100% certain of what happens with confessions you don't do anything with. I think they'll be available but I could be wrong.

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Arahael
Arahael
Posts: 34

11/6/2015
I agree, thank for the list NiteBrite!! You did a great job.
I also got more than 200 confessions. I have been grinding menace since day 5, but I could have activated email notifications to know I was receiving too much. That was my fault. Lesson for next year.

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malthaussen
malthaussen
Posts: 1060

11/5/2015
Sign up for free poisonings and scandal dupes from Reave and Mal's Excellent Chicken Soup Dispensary. There are legions of people happy to poison you and dupe you to help you raise your menaces. It will enable you to save many actions. Thread here: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic20921-hallowmas-idea-get-your-poison-here.aspx?Page=1
Thedeadlymoose beat me to it.

-- Mal
edited by malthaussen on 11/5/2015

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"Of two choices, I always take the third."
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Kittenpox
Kittenpox
Posts: 869

11/5/2015
I did much of the same in that first week (though I tried to answer them as I went, rather than sending more actions than I could reciprocate. I'm not guaranteed 500 yet, but I'm hopeful it will pay off.)

A bunch of this is on the Raising Menaces thread, but in case you hadn't seen that one yet: [spoiler]
If you have Scholar of the Correspondence and a Starveling Cat, you can answer Whimsy/Pride in 6/7 actions respectively - which works out to almost 1 answered confession per hour if you don't spend any Fate or have an Aunt who works <Fate-locked spoilers :3 >

SotC we can't help with directly, but if you don't have a Starveling Cat perhaps ask here if someone has a spare they could send your way? That should make those Pride confessions easier to manage.
If you have a Connected pet (bandaged raven, etc) that isn't a Grubby Kitten, you could release that and use your Connected:Urchins to get the G.K. On its opportunity card you can introduce it to your Starveling Cat, which provides enough Wounds+Nightmares in a single action to reach 3+ each, meaning that if you get fortunate with cards you can do Pride requests in 2 actions rather than 7.[/spoiler]
I think I remember reading that there are other methods to do it in 4-5ish actions, but I'm not familiar with them as they weren't available to me at the time.
edited by Kittenpox on 11/5/2015

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genesis
genesis
Posts: 924

11/5/2015
BlakeTheDrake wrote:
Come to think of it, I should probably cancel all my own outstanding requests, since I'm already at the goal - and there's no use for extra Spirit or Confessions once you've hit 500, right? I'm just afraid it'll seem... rude. >_>



No reward above 500 is *known* because noone in the past had achieved this much Spirit. That does not mean that a reward at 750 or 1000, say, doesn't exist. Certainly several people are aiming for 1000 Spirit with that in mind.

Also by accepting confessions in excess of 500 now you are making your life much easier next year. Confessions over 500 have *less* utility than confessions below 500 but they still *do have* utility because you can devour them next year.

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BlakeTheDrake
BlakeTheDrake
Posts: 237

11/5/2015
Thanks to those who've sent dupings and poisonings. I read the thread with offers, and while I didn't put in a request there, the basic idea was quite a revelation. Endless dupings with nothing but a couple of cheap articles of clothes? Brilliant! So I shanghaied a non-PoSI friend of mine into sending some of both my way. I've got a healthy stock now, and my pile of outstanding requests look a lot more manageable. 4 actions, total, to answer either kind of confession? Definitely a step in the right direction...

I'm also somewhat glad that I didn't manage to catch Nigel's no-doubt eloquent rant before he corrected it. Big Grin And yeah, I'm still going to do my best to answer every request I can, even if I no longer need THEIR confessions. Some of them were probably more conservative in their sendings, and others may be deliberately aiming for 750 or 1000 in the hopes of finding newly-added rewards there. And best of luck to them!

Oh, and thanks for the timeline, Rupho - I wanted to be sure I knew the exact(ish) end-time, so that I can switch to full-time confession-to-spirit conversion in time, should I fail to finish my confession-list early.
edited by BlakeTheDrake on 11/5/2015

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Juno
Juno
Posts: 63

11/5/2015
BlakeTheDrake wrote:
*sigh* Anyway, if you sent me a request for confessions, and have yet to see it answered... you might wind up disappointed. Come to think of it, I should probably cancel all my own outstanding requests, since I'm already at the goal - and there's no use for extra Spirit or Confessions once you've hit 500, right? I'm just afraid it'll seem... rude. >_>


Not to worry, I have already cancelled my request to you wink

I do wish however that like the sending mechanism, the cancelling button came with its own "text-to-send" box so that the recipient can be informed of why this was done instead of being taken rudely by surprise.

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Lady Red
Lady Red
Posts: 517

11/5/2015
500 was definitely the top reward level last year - some of us got well over that and it didn't unlock anything extra. (I got something around 750 iirc). We're all just hoping for more levels this year smile

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Curious Foreigner
Curious Foreigner
Posts: 210

11/5/2015
If I understand him correctly, BlakeTheDrake isn't cancelling the requests he's got, he's cancelling the ones he's sent. So he's still trying to accept what requests he can, he's just stopping others from accepting his requests, easing the load on them since they're probably in over their head too.
Edit: Seems it was clear what was meant after all, and this post was pointless.
edited by Curious Foreigner on 11/5/2015

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phryne
phryne
Posts: 1351

11/6/2015
Yay, hit 500 Spirit on my first Hallowmas! Toast

About 20 of my confession requests have not been answered yet. If you believe you're in over your heads you may reject them, I won't mind.

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metasynthie
metasynthie
Posts: 645

11/6/2015
Hallowmas was quite exhausting! I was trying to stay up late and get up early so that I didn't accrue more than two candles' worth of actions while sleeping! (You can get 6 hours and 40 minutes of sleep a night that way, which gives older people an advantage for optimal FL play, muahaha.)

I managed to accept almost 200 invitations. I could probably handle more, but I got freaked out when I realized I'd have to use actions this weekend to consign a ton of confessions. (I got fewer back.) Still, I don't blame ANYONE who got overwhelmed, and NiteBrite quite the opposite of blame -- it's nice to see a grand organizing effort, requires a lot of thought, and I wouldn't have been able to get 800+ Spirit in my first Hallowmas without that.

This makes me hope for social exercises that require even more coordination but less grinding, for instance a human pyramid exercise:

STABFEST! (brought to you by the Order Vespertine)
Every player starts at Stabby Rank 1. You may invite any contact at the same rank to a Staboff, which when accepted opens a storylet where you each have two options: Stab Them or Let Yourself Be Stabbed.
If you both Stab Them: you each take moderate Wounds
If you both Let Yourself Be Stabbed: you each get 1 Romantic Notion
If there's a stabber and a stabbee: the stabber gets 1 CP of Stabby Rank. the stabbee takes a lot of wounds and gets a Stabbed By [Stabber] quality

What's the maximum rank? MAYBE THERE IS NONE. Although this may seem like a rather random contest, it's actually a coordination exercise -- how high can you push someone up a pyramid by letting them stab you? And can you coordinate to get 6 other stabbees up to say, Rank 5 so that you can get someone to Rank 6 by letting them stab 6 other Rank 5s? At the end of the event, everyone gets to cash out both their Rank and their Stabbed By [Stabber] qualities, where the latter varies depending on the rank of the Stabber, and the high ranks possibly get some interesting lore that can be echoed to everyone, in addition to bigger shiny rewards, or gifts that can be handed out to helpers a la the Give A Gift! card.
edited by metasynthie on 11/6/2015

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Positively antique
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
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Erika
Erika
Posts: 528

11/7/2015
I would also like to apologise to those confession requests I won't be able to request. I have recieved 278 unique confession request this Hallowmas and I won't be able to accept all of them. I am trying to give preference to those that I sent a request to, but I have gotten so many gifts as part of the Starveling Cafe that they've flooded my inbox, making preferential treatment all but impossible.

The only cards I am doing are 'Gift a Gift' and 'A nearly unwrapped cat?', both of which I have only gotten once this Hallowmas. I am forgoing my own benefit and using the most efficient accepting methods that I can, favouring petting starveling cats over Blood-Red Tales for just that .2 of an action faster. I am also sleeping 7 hours as opposed to sleeping in during my post-exam holidays so I can manage 138 (or there abouts) actions a day. I've sadly buggered up a few times and let my wounds drop below 3 or forgotten to do the hat dance a few times.

Also apologies for spending 33 actions force-drawing the Amanuensis and cashing in Orphanage scheme.

If you feel personally wronged by my inability to accept your confession, I will send you gifts.

Oh, EDIT: Please don't send me any poisons/dupes, I've already got someone lovely enough to do that for me.
edited by Cecil on 11/7/2015

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Where the sun is hot, the moon is beautiful, and mysterious lights pass overhead while we all pretend to sleep.
                           Going on a fate expedition? I'm collecting data! Help me?
               "Bottles of Oblivion" drunk in the name of content: 57
              Catboxes (send more!) opened in the name of science: 1093
                    Fancy a friend?
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Arandia
Arandia
Posts: 127

11/7/2015
mzingalwa wrote:
I ended up cancelling some of the requests that I have recieved on account of the sheer volume. I sent out a vast number of requests, not expecting all of them to be responded to, and have recieved far more than I can possibly respond to by the 9th. I'm still trying to respond to as many of the remaining ones as I can out of politeness, but I cancelled some of the Pride requests that I recieved as I specified that I would prefer whimsy requests.


No worries Mzingalwa, I for one was confused by it at first, but now I see. Sorry for sending Pride instead of Whimsy in the first place, and thanks for explaining here on the forum! Happy Hallowmas!

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Arandia van Graeff, Midnighter and crazy cat lady: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Arandia
Horace Glendower, a Seeker: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Horace%20Glendower

Looking for plant battles!
Always happy to partake in social actions. No Affluent Photographer, no chess and no coffee invitations, please!
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