Ysrthgrathe
Posts: 87
11/7/2015
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I'm going to bed now. Tomorrow morning my making waves should be high enough to invite the Amanuensis and send you your first point of notability.
What are you called in the Neath? Also murderstone? Or dan654wer?
edited by Ysrthgrathe on 11/7/2015
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/Ysrthgrathe
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Myrto
Posts: 209
11/7/2015
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Shalinoth wrote:
The award for most intriguing betrayal I've seen so far goes to Ysrthgrathe, who claims the Masters have his child!
That's the kind of betrayal I very-much welcome 
Totally! I loved that betrayal! I laughed out loud when I read it. Thanks Ysrthgrathe, for the wonderful betrayal.
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Myrto, a mysterious veteran spy who is only on their own side. Married to navchaa!
Edith Alpha Doyle, social climber with grand ambitions; Correspondent who would be happy to assist you in whatever way she can.
, teenage orphan who came to the Neath to pursue a career in crime; monster-hunter. Currently on the Seeking road.
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The Speeth
Posts: 26
11/8/2015
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Hey all. I'm not doing any betraying myself this year, but I wanted to ask the experts on the subject what they think about a particular point of etiquette.
Namely, is it indecorous to betray someone's confession if you 1) have not yet accepted their confession request, and 2) have already determined you are unlikely to do so before confessions close?
My inclination is to think this quite rude (not in-game RP rude, but actual interpersonal rude), given that the betrayed party in this situation not only did you the favor of sending you a request, and accepting one you sent them, but also is left without the option of betraying in kind or forgiving you your trespass. You have left them 3 actions and several CP of scandal and MW out, by combining a negative in-story social action with a lack of reciprocity regarding an out-of-story agreement (accepting each other's requests).
As should be obvious, this just happened to me, and I am surprisingly annoyed. Am I failing to embrace the spirit of the holiday?
edited by Speethling on 11/8/2015
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Speethling
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
11/8/2015
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Hmm. Well, I spent my first two Hallowmas events betraying nearly everyone, and I'm pretty sure not all the people I betrayed had the ability to betray me in return. At the same time, however, I always accepted every single invitation I received, and made sure to keep myself available for a good amount of time. I would say that it would probably sting way more if you spent actions inviting them to confess and they just never accepted it. In one case you just never reciprocated the invitation, and in the other you feel denied. I can definitely understand why you would feel the way you do.
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Shalinoth
Posts: 493
11/8/2015
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In my case I answered all confession requests sent back to me, but when I double-check my notes it's likely there will be some who didn't send me a request back but who answered mine and got betrayed for it. Whilst that's not as severe as your example, I've already started sending out some beneficial gestures to those affected.
This was my first year participating in Hallowmas outside of my own small friends list (which is now massive). Next year I am going to organise more thoroughly and much more openly. I'll keep clearer data on who is in a state of mutual confessing with me, who is selflessly giving me theirs and not asking for mine, and vice versa where I've confessed and not asked back. I think i'll let this data inform my decisions on whether to betray or not.
In your case, where time is running out, we should probably be much more mindful of those situations.
I started betraying by going for those listed opted-in on this thread, and for the vast majority of the rest I only sent a betrayal once all my pending requests were reciprocated.
Short answer, yeah I think it's poor form to cut and run when you clearly have a reciprocating invite pending and you've gone and used theirs.
One question though. What's the actual 'favour' of sending a request? I understand the acceptance is done at considerable cost, and risk. But making a request of someone isn't a favour, is it?
.
edited by Shalinoth on 11/8/2015
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Profiles: Shally, Chimes & Jack~of~Smiles . . . Current Goal: 
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
11/8/2015
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I would say accepting a request is doing that person a favour since you're using your actions to the benefit of someone else. Sending a request is asking for a favour.
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Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
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Shalinoth
Posts: 493
11/8/2015
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Right, that's what I'd think too.
Thinking about the etiquette more, it might be best if betrayals are only fired off once a mutual confession has been formed between two parties. That might be my policy next year, likely with forewarnings. Plus adhering to any Do Not betray lists that pop up on forums.
Timing it right could help too; if we try to send our betrayals as the first person in a mutual pair to act, it lets the betrayed have a chance to betray us back or take the higher ground and Consign ours, etc.
Beyond that, there's not much more we can do without taking every bit of surprise out of the season with heavy social preconditions, or play only with reliable associates. The latter isn't likely to win anywhere near 500 Spirit and the former ... kinda sucks.
It's Trick-or-Treat time. Not bureaucratic-prevention-of-anything-but-treats
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Profiles: Shally, Chimes & Jack~of~Smiles . . . Current Goal:
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
11/8/2015
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In my first year I didn't know that betrayals for Connected: Masters would be a thing until the option suddenly showed up towards the end as a preview of the future options, and oh man, I was so excited about it. I'd hit 11 through Mr Pages sometime before then, and was probably one of the first people to discover the (then) recent cap on the card's appearance. This was back in April of 2013, so I'd been stuck for months waiting for Christmas in the hopes of getting my connection up.
On the very last day of the first phase I stayed up late so that I could betray everyone right off the bat. This was back when the point of Masters connection was guaranteed, and when dealing with your received connections didn't cost any actions. I believe my Master's connection went up from 11 to 14 by the end of it. It was great, and because I did all my betrayals immediately everybody who had my confession was able to reclaim their lost Making Waves by getting me back in return. I'm still surprised I didn't end up in the Tomb-Colonies by the end of it.
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edited by Sara Hysaro on 11/8/2015
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Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
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Ysrthgrathe
Posts: 87
11/8/2015
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That was me, Speethling, wasn't it?
Sorry, your confession request doesn't show up on my queue. But i try to answer as many request as I can up to the last minute.
But I mean what I wrote in my note. If you are really hurt, tell me a number and I will sent you gifts of the unexpected in return.
I will use fate, so you will get them on the ninth oder tenth.
I roleplay that I need connection the Masters 20 to get my child back. That's probably pretty stupid, but grinding for cider is a little dull for me.
Mechanical speaking, I betrayed plenty of people. I would have asked in advance, but I still have to work through more invitations for confessions than I can probably handle. It think it is more important to use my actions for that? Or is that terribly rude?
RandomWalker just brought to my attention that I could have sent PMs over the forum. Sorry, but this hadn't crossed my mind und now it is too late.
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Shalinoth
Posts: 493
11/8/2015
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Oh, good idea there. 'Zero-action' Forum requests by PM. I can add that to my options for next year's Betrayal etiquette. It won't cover the many non-forum players but it's a little more help.
I admire your roleplay goal, happy to have been part of its progress.
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Profiles: Shally, Chimes & Jack~of~Smiles . . . Current Goal:
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The Speeth
Posts: 26
11/8/2015
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Ysrthgrathe wrote:
That was me, Speethling, wasn't it?
No, it wasn't you! I do appreciate the effort you put into responding, though--and if it had been you, with your RP explanation (which I heard people chuckling about appreciatively on the IRC), I would have been much less annoyed, if at all. 
edited by Speethling on 11/8/2015
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xKiv
Posts: 846
11/8/2015
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Ysrthgrathe wrote:
I roleplay that I need connection the Masters 20 to get my child back. That's probably pretty stupid, but grinding for cider is a little dull for me.
Heh.
I was pondering if it could be the *other* meaning of "have my child" ....
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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Det
Posts: 48
11/8/2015
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Was someone doing any mass betrayals - i wonder about statistics? Out of 4 betrayals i got 3 Masters Connected, so is it really Rare succes, or just an alternative success?
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Docteur
Posts: 101
11/8/2015
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Det wrote:
Was someone doing any mass betrayals - i wonder about statistics? Out of 4 betrayals i got 3 Masters Connected, so is it really Rare succes, or just an alternative success?
Out of 15 Betrayals, only 3 Connected: Masters.
edited by Docteur on 11/8/2015
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The Viric Voice! A beautiful instrument.
Docteur - And so it ends.
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
11/8/2015
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I've had a significant amount of luck with it, but I only betrayed I think about 20-ish people.
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Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
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Shalinoth
Posts: 493
11/9/2015
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On Chimes: 21 Masters gain out of 56 Betrayals.
On Shally: 33 Masters gains out of 112 Betrayals..
On Smiles: 24 out of 93.
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edited by Shalinoth on 11/9/2015
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Profiles: Shally, Chimes & Jack~of~Smiles . . . Current Goal:
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Shalinoth
Posts: 493
11/9/2015
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That's about 1/3.
I recall last year being roughly the same.
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Profiles: Shally, Chimes & Jack~of~Smiles . . . Current Goal:
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
11/9/2015
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And that's it! Thank you to everyone who participated, and I hope you had a great Hallowmas. Next year I shall strive to improve the list for everyone.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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