Lacunae
Posts: 49
10/24/2015
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I've been looking into the world of Fallen London with greater depth, and someone pointed me towards the Silver Tree. I've tried to play the game (which seems to have no action cap for some reason) but I found it incredibly grindy and haven't progressed far in the stories. It seems to be set in the same world, but are the stories of Silver Tree canon? Also, would there be anywhere I could find the parts of the Silver Tree (the relationship between the Khan and the Princess, as well as what the Fountain is/why William had to build it) which are relevant to Fallen London?
Thanks in advance!
edited by Lacunae on 10/24/2015
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KestrelGirl
Posts: 138
10/24/2015
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I agree that The Silver Tree is pretty grindy, but it's finite and can be played multiple times. Yes, its lore is canon.
The game is set in Karakorum, aka the Fourth City, in 1254. A lot of the characters you meet are at least mentioned in Fallen London. The Interpreter became the Final Khan/Last Khan, and the Princess is the Gracious Widow. The Khan in the game is Mongke Khan, the Princess's father. You will meet a Master in the game, though it's not entirely clear which one.
Mongke commissioned the Silver Tree, which *is* the fountain in question, though it did have metal leaves as adornments.
edited by KestrelGirl on 10/24/2015
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KestrelGirl
Posts: 138
10/24/2015
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Oh, I forgot something. After the Fourth City fell, it actually survived for several centuries, then the inhabitants rebelled against the Masters, and the city was annihilated and replaced with London. The Forgotten Quarter is not all that remains of the Fourth City, however; refugees from the fall of the city went off into the Unterzee and founded the Khanate, which still exists.
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NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
10/24/2015
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If you are looking for the history of how Silver Tree came to be, this link to it's archived kickstarter page may be of some use to you: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/elizabethsampat/tales-of-fallen-london-the-silver-tree/description
It's even got a cool promotional video featuring non-other than the one and only Chris Gardiner.
edited by NiteBrite on 10/24/2015
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phryne
Posts: 1347
10/24/2015
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KestrelGirl wrote:
The Interpreter became the Final Khan/Last Khan [...]
then the inhabitants rebelled against the Masters, and the city was annihilated [...]
Are those things confirmed or are you speculating?
edited by phryne on 10/24/2015
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Albedineity
Posts: 13
10/24/2015
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KestrelGirl wrote:
You will meet a Master in the game, though it's not entirely clear which one.
It's Mr Wines - the Cloaked Emissary says so himself if you choose to go with him as the final choice.
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Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 787
10/24/2015
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Albedineity wrote:
It's Mr Wines - the Cloaked Emissary says so himself if you choose to go with him as the final choice.
Actually, you meet several Masters, but Mr Wines is the only one named. I remember a part where it's stated that the Cloaked Emissary behaves differently, and how he sometimes seems to be in several places at the same time. I don't think any of the Masters would miss out on the haggling over a new city, so each one probably gets a go as Cloaked Emissary... 
phryne wrote:
KestrelGirl wrote:
The Interpreter became the Final Khan/Last Khan [...]
then the inhabitants rebelled against the Masters, and the city was annihilated [...]
Are those things confirmed or are you speculating?
There's one mention of a Last Khan who was known as The Interpreter. I understood this to be related to the Correspondence, since this Khan was buried with seven correspondence stones. I don't think it has anything to do with the Interpreter from Silver Tree.
I can't remember any mention of actual rebelling, it seems to have been more a case of civil war. The Bazaar seems to slowly devour the fallen cities -- there's a storylet in FL stating how population is constantly dwindling. When that became apparent in the 4th city, some enterprising Khaganians wanted to get far away from the Bazaar's influence and founded the Khanate in the Eastern Unterzee...
edited by Rupho Schartenhauer on 10/31/2015
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Albedineity
Posts: 13
10/24/2015
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Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
Albedineity wrote:
It's Mr Wines - the Cloaked Emissary says so himself if you choose to go with him as the final choice.
Actually, you meet several Masters, but Mr Wines is the only one named. I remember a part where it's stated that the Cloaked Emissary behaves differently, and how he sometimes seems to be in several places at the same time. I don't think any of the Masters would miss out on the haggling over a new city, so each one probably gets a go as Cloaked Emissary...
Ah, I forgot about that part then.
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Gonen
Posts: 817
10/24/2015
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How can it be the Interpreter? How did he survived length of time from the fall of Karakorum to the fall of London to be the last king?
Also, I thought the Widow was the princess of the last king of the Neath, not the last king which sold the city at the Silver Tree.
Are there any evidences to prove that the Widow is the princess from Silver Tree and not from years later after the city fell (a princess who tried to arrange a rebellion, like the yesterday's king said)
edited by Gonen on 10/24/2015
edited by Gonen on 10/24/2015
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KestrelGirl
Posts: 138
10/25/2015
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Gonen wrote:
How can it be the Interpreter? How did he survived length of time from the fall of Karakorum to the fall of London to be the last king?
Also, I thought the Widow was the princess of the last king of the Neath, not the last king which sold the city at the Silver Tree.
Are there any evidences to prove that the Widow is the princess from Silver Tree and not from years later after the city fell (a princess who tried to arrange a rebellion, like the yesterday's king said)
1. Hesperidean Cider/peach brandy?
2. ...what? King of the Neath isn't a thing.
3. Yes, it's confirmed. Just not sure where.
Clarification:
The Silver Tree itself was a fountain in Karakorum/the Fourth City. It existed IRL.
The Widow drank peach brandy so she is partially immortal. That's how she's survived since the 14th century. She orchestrated the fall of the Fourth City.
The rebellion happened in the early 19th century, and it was led by Yesterday's King, who also drank peach brandy/Hesperidean Cider and is apparently hinted to have been the Widow's brother. The Widow played a supporting role.
edited by KestrelGirl on 10/25/2015
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
10/25/2015
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Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
I can't remember any mention of actual rebelling, it seems to have been more a case of civil war. The Bazaar seems to slowly devour the fallen cities -- there's a storylet in FL stating how population is constantly dwindling. When that became apparent in the 4th city, some enterprising Khaganians wanted to get far away from the Bazaar's influence and founded the Khanate in the Eastern Unterzee...
If memory serves, the split within the Fourth City was less pro/anti-Bazaar than about collaboration with the Fingerkings. The New Khanate was founded by the anti-Fingerking faction, which is why mirrors are treated as contraband there.
As for the rest of the debate... it's ages since I've played Silver Tree through, but if memory serves... the Princess definitely became the Widow, but I have no clear idea what became of the Interpreter, or who Yesterday's King is.
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Gonen
Posts: 817
10/25/2015
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King of the neath = king of the 4th city while at the neath, of course...
Also, I remember the interpeter as being a female, not a male (to become a king).
That is why I believe the widow to be the daughter of last king of the 4 th city (at the Neath, years and years after the fall, several khans later) and not the origenal silver tree one.
Unless someone can provide the evidance through echo, and correct my misguided sole.
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Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 787
10/25/2015
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Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
If memory serves, the split within the Fourth City was less pro/anti-Bazaar than about collaboration with the Fingerkings. The New Khanate was founded by the anti-Fingerking faction, which is why mirrors are treated as contraband there.
That's right!
Gonen wrote:
King of the neath = king of the 4th city while at the neath, of course...
Also, I remember the interpeter as being a female, not a male (to become a king).
That is why I believe the widow to be the daughter of last king of the 4 th city (at the Neath, years and years after the fall, several khans later) and not the origenal silver tree one.
Unless someone can provide the evidance through echo, and correct my misguided sole.
That the Interpreter in Silver Tree is female is one reason why I'm not really convinced of her being the Last Khan/Interpreter. Also, she wasn't noble-born, and wasn't she a foreigner, too? That's three good reasons, but then in the Neath strange things happen...
Concerning the Widow: I don't think you will find any "official" confirmations either way, but it's the going theory that she's indeed the princess from Silver Tree (there is also a debate whether the Once-Dashing Smuggler might be William the Sculptor). And her longevity in this case would not at all be unusual: the people directly involved in the sale of their city are always rewarded with near-immortality:
[spoiler]The Manager of the Royal Beth is from the 1st city, the Duchess from the 2nd, the Widow from the 4th. The 3rd is a bit more complicated.[/spoiler]
edited by Rupho Schartenhauer on 10/31/2015
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Deepdelver has become the progenitor of London's brightest star. It's... complicated.
Dr. Kvirkvelia, gone NORTH on 23/12/1894.
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
10/25/2015
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Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
(there is also a debate whether the Once-Dashing Smuggler might be William the Sculptor).
I can see why people would think so, but I'd be more convinced if William were dashing or a smuggler. Also, their characters seem very different.
And her longevity in this case would not at all be unusual: the people directly involved in the sale of their city are always rewarded with near-immortality
[spoiler]Plus, the Princess was brewing her own cider before her city even fell.[/spoiler]
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
10/26/2015
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Gonen wrote:
King of the neath = king of the 4th city while at the neath, of course...
Also, I remember the interpeter as being a female, not a male (to become a king).
That is why I believe the widow to be the daughter of last king of the 4 th city (at the Neath, years and years after the fall, several khans later) and not the origenal silver tree one.
Unless someone can provide the evidance through echo, and correct my misguided sole.
The traitor empress may, in some small way, be empress of the neath, but she handed over her control of the city. the others are the same- the masters rule, while they retain some power, but are largely powerless.
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dov
Posts: 2580
10/27/2015
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Grenem wrote:
The traitor empress may, in some small way, be empress of the neath, but she handed over her control of the city. the others are the same- the masters rule, while they retain some power, but are largely powerless.
The Traitor Empress is the Empress of the British Empire (i.e. Queen Victoria), of which London is now located in the Neath.
Why do you think she is empress of all the Neath?
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
10/27/2015
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Strictly speaking, we don't know what governance applies to Surface-Britain or its past or present colonies. The Empire in the Neath, as it stands, constitutes London and Port Carnelian, and I assume at least some of the islands in the Southern Archipelago and Shepherd's Wash. Plus, economic claims on the Salt Lions, Demeaux Island and Polythreme. That's far from being the entire Neath, but, hey, it's not nothing. The New Khanate has around about the same reach - the Salt Steppes, Wisdom, and a certain level of investment in the Carnelian Coast - while the Presbyterate's holdings seem to be chiefly inland.
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Angus Turner
Posts: 72
10/31/2015
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What's all this about the Interpreter being the Last Khan? I don't remember anything like that from when I played through the affair of the box. I've been looking for an echo of Yesterday's King mentioning her, and I can't find anything. Could someone give me a link?
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Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 787
10/31/2015
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Angus Turner wrote:
What's all this about the Interpreter being the Last Khan? I don't remember anything like that from when I played through the affair of the box. I've been looking for an echo of Yesterday's King mentioning her, and I can't find anything. Could someone give me a link?
Actually, I was wrong there: it's not from Yesterday's King at all. It's mentioned at the very beginning of the Tomb of Seven archaeological expedition. Though the Last Khan is explicitly addressed as "he" there, so I'm really not too sure about this having anything to do with the Interpreter from Silver Tree. As I recall, she wasn't noble-born either, so for her to become Khan (is there a feminine version of the word? Khaness?) would've been super-extraordinary really.
Edit: I've edited my earlier post about Yesterday's King. No need to sow more confusion...
edited by Rupho Schartenhauer on 10/31/2015
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Cortez the Killer has killed a Master, definitely.
Deepdelver has become the progenitor of London's brightest star. It's... complicated.
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Pyrodinium
Posts: 639
10/31/2015
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Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
Angus Turner wrote:
What's all this about the Interpreter being the Last Khan? I don't remember anything like that from when I played through the affair of the box. I've been looking for an echo of Yesterday's King mentioning her, and I can't find anything. Could someone give me a link?
Actually, I was wrong there: it's not from Yesterday's King at all. It's mentioned at the very beginning of the Tomb of Seven archaeological expedition. Though the Last Khan is explicitly addressed as "he" there, so I'm really not too sure about this having anything to do with the Interpreter from Silver Tree. As I recall, she wasn't noble-born either, so for her to become Khan (is there a feminine version of the word? Khaness?) would've been super-extraordinary really.
Edit: I've edited my earlier post about Yesterday's King. No need to sow more confusion...
edited by Rupho Schartenhauer on 10/31/2015
According to Wikipedia, the female counterpart for "Khan" is "Khatun" or "Khanum". A little casual reading of their biographies show that they're just as Dangerous and Persuasive as their brothers.
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