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Announcement: Another Chance for Second Chances Messages in this topic - RSS

Alexis Kennedy
Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374

10/1/2015
Many of you will be aware of a long-standing exploit / dull piece of design with Second Chances. Currently, you can

  1. Enter a storylet
  2. attempt an action with a second chance committed
  3. fail!
  4. be offered a second chance
  5. back out of the storylet rather than taking the second chance and risking a fail result
  6. go back to 1
...and never see the failure result as long as you have spare second chances and actions, and don't mind a bit of slog. This isn't the way we intended the content to be played, and it isn't an interesting decision for the player to make, but it's the legacy of a daft decision I made back in 2009 when I didn't know better.

So in the near future, this will start happening instead:

  1. Enter a storylet
  2. attempt an action with a second chance committed
  3. fail!
  4. be offered a second chance
  5. back out of the storylet rather than taking the second chance and risking a fail result
  6. go back to 1
  7. find that you now need 2 second chances, not 1
  8. fail, be offered a second chance, go back rather than risk a fail result, go back to the start...
  9. find that you now need 4 second chances, not 1!
  10. repeat until you take the plunge and actually succeed or fail
In other words, if you keep re-attempting the same storylet, the cost of doing it will double every time - until you actually succeed, or give up and fail. It'll still possible to use second chances to evade failure, but it'll be a more costly and more interesting decision.

(This is tracked per storylet - so if you want to use second chances on other storylets, you'll see those costs increase or reset separately.)

Questions? Pop 'em below!
+16 link
Mark
Mark
Posts: 63

10/1/2015
I like it. And I say that as someone who has used that exploit on more then one occasion.

--
Zinaida Gorenko, the Scarlet Saint - Accepting any social action except loitering, cats, and photographer
+1 link
Ian Hart
Ian Hart
Posts: 433

10/1/2015
Will this only apply to pinned storylets, or will it apply to cards as well?

It doesn't make any difference to me, as I don't have the patience to abuse it, just curious.

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Antifinity
0 link
Gonen
Gonen
Posts: 817

10/1/2015
YOU COULD DO THAT???

I always arrive late to a party...

--
The Ashen Anesthesiologist - Paramount Londoner

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness.

The long journey to eccentricity:
On March 10th, 2018, reached 15 on all quirks, simultaneously. The Quirky Anesthesiologist
+9 link
Estelle Knoht
Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751

10/1/2015
Ian Hart wrote:
Will this only apply to pinned storylets, or will it apply to cards as well?


I don't think you can do that to cards already since you lose them if you take any actions and exit.

As for the change itself.... eh, I guess Impossible Theorem is grindy enough anyway, why not add more grinding to the pile? Not particularly "interesting" for that one story though.

Also, does this affect other Storynexus game with the same mechanic? I forgot if Below have second chances too or something.
edited by Estelle Knoht on 10/1/2015

--
Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
0 link
RandomWalker
RandomWalker
Posts: 948

10/1/2015
Oooh, I didn't think of the impact on grinding an impossible theorem. Grinding one of those out is gonna hurt a whole lot more now.
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Kolanowski
Kolanowski
Posts: 148

10/1/2015
Huh, I actually didn't know about that exploit. Oh well.

--
Kazimierz Kolanowski, gentleman, scholar, humble servant of the Maw. Chaotic Evil. Open to all social actions & accepting almost all requests. Might sell you to Satan for a single corn chip.
+1 link
metasynthie
metasynthie
Posts: 645

10/1/2015
I like it: it preserves the "gamble or grind?" dichotomy at the heart of so many FL activities. Although I guess there's no classical grind for second chances.

--
Positively antique
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
0 link
Grenem
Grenem
Posts: 2067

10/1/2015
Estelle Knoht wrote:
Ian Hart wrote:
Will this only apply to pinned storylets, or will it apply to cards as well?


I don't think you can do that to cards already since you lose them if you take any actions and exit.

As for the change itself.... eh, I guess Impossible Theorem is grindy enough anyway, why not add more grinding to the pile? Not particularly "interesting" for that one story though.

Also, does this affect other Storynexus game with the same mechanic? I forgot if Below have second chances too or something.
edited by Estelle Knoht on 10/1/2015

yes, but the current card system offers an alternative exploit- deliberately failing a check on second chance in nadir to discard at no expense.

--
Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
+1 link
Catherine Raymond
Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2413

10/2/2015
I think it's a fair solution, but then I rarely use Second Chances these days, because for the storylets I favor even the results of failures are useful to me.

--
Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355

Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
0 link
NiteBrite
NiteBrite
Posts: 1018

10/2/2015
When you say "In other words, if you keep re-attempting the same storylet, the cost of doing it will double every time - until you actually succeed, or give up and fail."

Do you mean that the counter resets if you go play a different story after backing out but before attempting again? Or is the increase tracker a permanent increase making things like carousel storylines much much harder due to the fact they loop around and repeat (so you end up playing the same story repeatedly in a non-exploit manner).

Edit: never mind, I see the line in your post now that says "(This is tracked per storylet - so if you want to use second chances on other storylets, you'll see those costs increase or reset separately.)" Which answers my question. I like that solution.
edited by NiteBrite on 10/2/2015

--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
+1 link
Koenig
Koenig
Posts: 466

10/2/2015
I was unaware you could even back out and repeat such actions.

--

Koenig: Extraordinary. Invisible. Shattering. Legendary.

0 link
lady ciel
lady ciel
Posts: 2545

10/2/2015
I think I need some clarification on this (This is tracked per storylet - so if you want to use second chances on other storylets, you'll see those costs increase or reset separately.)


With the cap on second chances I would like to know if the game remembers that you backed out of using the second chance on a specific storylet; went away and did something else before returning sometime later to try again. Or does it only reset if you either succeed or fail on that storylet. Or if you use a second chance somewhere else?

As a long term player I think that, apart from the Cave of the Nadir, the only place I use Second Chances is at the University to Locate an Impossible Theorem as failure there is instant death and uses 3 second chances anyway and a success uses 9. With the cap on second chances if it doesn't clear if you go and do something else it will soon become impossible as you won't have enough second chances to even attempt it.

Edit - Of course if it doesn't reset until you succeed or fail it just means going to meet the Boatman on a failure as it won't be really worth the cost to keep trying and this isn't something you can do frequently as it takes a long time to get all the Searing Enigmas anyway smile
edited by reveurciel on 10/2/2015

--
ciel

Sorry RL means I am not a very active player at the moment. No social actions unless you are prepared to wait and definitely no sparring or other mult-action things.

No Calling Cards or boxed cats please. Will take dupes on the affluent photographers. Other social invitations welcome. Parabolan Kittens usually available, send me an in-game social action saying you want one and I will get one to you as soon as possible.

storynexus name - reveurciel
0 link
Ben
Ben
Posts: 657

10/2/2015
I've got a change for a mechanical idea that would let those who LIKE the ability to fail (and thus remove the card) and those who want to chase the reducing chances...

What if it goes away when you "perhaps not" and doubles each time you fail, but you have to try again from the (almost never used) try again at the bottom.

So it says "costs 2" on the try again, and loops back to itself if it fails?

--
The wind has no destination.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/IcountFrom0
0 link
xKiv
xKiv
Posts: 834

10/2/2015
Will every perhaps-notting-out (with committed second chance) still cost as many actions as a normal failure would?

--
https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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A B Nile
A B Nile
Posts: 414

10/2/2015
I like the mechanic.

Would it be possible though to raise the cap on Second Chances? Once players use up their legacy stocks, the (in most circumstances) limit of 20 means that in practice we can actually only attempt the "trick" 5 times, doesn't it - i.e. because it requires 1, then 2, then 4, then 8, then 16, then 32?

This may of course be the idea.

--
My profile: A B Nile

My alt: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate
(seeking Acquaintances and accepting all social actions)

Item conversion table - finally complete with all rare successes!

Bloody, bold and resolute
+2 link
Sara Hysaro
Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514

10/2/2015
If we aren't getting uncapped Second Chances it'd be nice if the required number of Second Chances was capped somewhere. I would say 20, but that makes the Impossible Theorem truly impossible for most.
--
edited by Sara Hysaro on 10/2/2015

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.

Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
+2 link
Ian Hart
Ian Hart
Posts: 433

10/2/2015
Estelle Knoht wrote:
Ian Hart wrote:
Will this only apply to pinned storylets, or will it apply to cards as well?


I don't think you can do that to cards already since you lose them if you take any actions and exit.

As for the change itself.... eh, I guess Impossible Theorem is grindy enough anyway, why not add more grinding to the pile? Not particularly "interesting" for that one story though.

Also, does this affect other Storynexus game with the same mechanic? I forgot if Below have second chances too or something.
edited by Estelle Knoht on 10/1/2015



Well, at some point you're going to draw the card again.

Below does make explicit use of this mechanic. Which reminds me, are players going to be advised of this change? I imagine it could confuse a lot of new players.

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Antifinity
+1 link
Koenig
Koenig
Posts: 466

10/2/2015
Out of curiosity, if I back out of a failed second chance on an opportunity card, will it get rid of the card? I am looking to change professions soon, and I am hoping not to be stuck in a second tier profession for any length of time beyond the actions it takes to upgrade.

--

Koenig: Extraordinary. Invisible. Shattering. Legendary.

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Sara Hysaro
Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514

10/2/2015
It will get rid of the opportunity card.

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.

Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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