Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
10/1/2015
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Many of you will be aware of a long-standing exploit / dull piece of design with Second Chances. Currently, you can
- Enter a storylet
- attempt an action with a second chance committed
- fail!
- be offered a second chance
- back out of the storylet rather than taking the second chance and risking a fail result
- go back to 1
...and never see the failure result as long as you have spare second chances and actions, and don't mind a bit of slog. This isn't the way we intended the content to be played, and it isn't an interesting decision for the player to make, but it's the legacy of a daft decision I made back in 2009 when I didn't know better.
So in the near future, this will start happening instead:
- Enter a storylet
- attempt an action with a second chance committed
- fail!
- be offered a second chance
- back out of the storylet rather than taking the second chance and risking a fail result
- go back to 1
- find that you now need 2 second chances, not 1
- fail, be offered a second chance, go back rather than risk a fail result, go back to the start...
- find that you now need 4 second chances, not 1!
- repeat until you take the plunge and actually succeed or fail
In other words, if you keep re-attempting the same storylet, the cost of doing it will double every time - until you actually succeed, or give up and fail. It'll still possible to use second chances to evade failure, but it'll be a more costly and more interesting decision.
(This is tracked per storylet - so if you want to use second chances on other storylets, you'll see those costs increase or reset separately.)
Questions? Pop 'em below!
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+16
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Mark
Posts: 63
10/1/2015
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I like it. And I say that as someone who has used that exploit on more then one occasion.
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Zinaida Gorenko, the Scarlet Saint - Accepting any social action except loitering, cats, and photographer
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+1
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Ian Hart
Posts: 437
10/1/2015
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Will this only apply to pinned storylets, or will it apply to cards as well?
It doesn't make any difference to me, as I don't have the patience to abuse it, just curious.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Antifinity
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Gonen
Posts: 817
10/1/2015
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YOU COULD DO THAT???
I always arrive late to a party...
--
 The Ashen Anesthesiologist - Paramount Londoner
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness.
The long journey to eccentricity:
On March 10th, 2018, reached 15 on all quirks, simultaneously. The Quirky Anesthesiologist
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+9
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
10/1/2015
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Ian Hart wrote:
Will this only apply to pinned storylets, or will it apply to cards as well?
I don't think you can do that to cards already since you lose them if you take any actions and exit.
As for the change itself.... eh, I guess Impossible Theorem is grindy enough anyway, why not add more grinding to the pile? Not particularly "interesting" for that one story though.
Also, does this affect other Storynexus game with the same mechanic? I forgot if Below have second chances too or something.
edited by Estelle Knoht on 10/1/2015
--
Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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RandomWalker
Posts: 948
10/1/2015
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Oooh, I didn't think of the impact on grinding an impossible theorem. Grinding one of those out is gonna hurt a whole lot more now.
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Kolanowski
Posts: 148
10/1/2015
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Huh, I actually didn't know about that exploit. Oh well.
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Kazimierz Kolanowski, gentleman, scholar, humble servant of the Maw. Chaotic Evil. Open to all social actions & accepting almost all requests. Might sell you to Satan for a single corn chip.
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+1
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metasynthie
Posts: 645
10/1/2015
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I like it: it preserves the "gamble or grind?" dichotomy at the heart of so many FL activities. Although I guess there's no classical grind for second chances.
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Positively antique
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
10/1/2015
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Estelle Knoht wrote:
Ian Hart wrote:
Will this only apply to pinned storylets, or will it apply to cards as well?
I don't think you can do that to cards already since you lose them if you take any actions and exit.
As for the change itself.... eh, I guess Impossible Theorem is grindy enough anyway, why not add more grinding to the pile? Not particularly "interesting" for that one story though.
Also, does this affect other Storynexus game with the same mechanic? I forgot if Below have second chances too or something.
edited by Estelle Knoht on 10/1/2015
yes, but the current card system offers an alternative exploit- deliberately failing a check on second chance in nadir to discard at no expense.
--
Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
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+1
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Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2518
10/2/2015
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I think it's a fair solution, but then I rarely use Second Chances these days, because for the storylets I favor even the results of failures are useful to me.
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Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355
Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
10/2/2015
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When you say "In other words, if you keep re-attempting the same storylet, the cost of doing it will double every time - until you actually succeed, or give up and fail."
Do you mean that the counter resets if you go play a different story after backing out but before attempting again? Or is the increase tracker a permanent increase making things like carousel storylines much much harder due to the fact they loop around and repeat (so you end up playing the same story repeatedly in a non-exploit manner).
Edit: never mind, I see the line in your post now that says "(This is tracked per storylet - so if you want to use second chances on other storylets, you'll see those costs increase or reset separately.)" Which answers my question. I like that solution.
edited by NiteBrite on 10/2/2015
--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
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+1
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Koenig
Posts: 466
10/2/2015
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I was unaware you could even back out and repeat such actions.
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Koenig: Extraordinary. Invisible. Shattering. Legendary.
   
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lady ciel
Posts: 2548
10/2/2015
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I think I need some clarification on this (This is tracked per storylet - so if you want to use second chances on other storylets, you'll see those costs increase or reset separately.)
With the cap on second chances I would like to know if the game remembers that you backed out of using the second chance on a specific storylet; went away and did something else before returning sometime later to try again. Or does it only reset if you either succeed or fail on that storylet. Or if you use a second chance somewhere else?
As a long term player I think that, apart from the Cave of the Nadir, the only place I use Second Chances is at the University to Locate an Impossible Theorem as failure there is instant death and uses 3 second chances anyway and a success uses 9. With the cap on second chances if it doesn't clear if you go and do something else it will soon become impossible as you won't have enough second chances to even attempt it.
Edit - Of course if it doesn't reset until you succeed or fail it just means going to meet the Boatman on a failure as it won't be really worth the cost to keep trying and this isn't something you can do frequently as it takes a long time to get all the Searing Enigmas anyway 
edited by reveurciel on 10/2/2015
--
ciel
Sorry RL means I am not a very active player at the moment. No social actions unless you are prepared to wait and definitely no sparring or other mult-action things.
No Calling Cards or boxed cats please. Will take dupes on the affluent photographers. Other social invitations welcome. Parabolan Kittens usually available, send me an in-game social action saying you want one and I will get one to you as soon as possible.
storynexus name - reveurciel
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Ben
Posts: 657
10/2/2015
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I've got a change for a mechanical idea that would let those who LIKE the ability to fail (and thus remove the card) and those who want to chase the reducing chances...
What if it goes away when you "perhaps not" and doubles each time you fail, but you have to try again from the (almost never used) try again at the bottom.
So it says "costs 2" on the try again, and loops back to itself if it fails?
--
The wind has no destination.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/IcountFrom0
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xKiv
Posts: 846
10/2/2015
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Will every perhaps-notting-out (with committed second chance) still cost as many actions as a normal failure would?
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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A B Nile
Posts: 414
10/2/2015
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I like the mechanic.
Would it be possible though to raise the cap on Second Chances? Once players use up their legacy stocks, the (in most circumstances) limit of 20 means that in practice we can actually only attempt the "trick" 5 times, doesn't it - i.e. because it requires 1, then 2, then 4, then 8, then 16, then 32?
This may of course be the idea.
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My profile: A B Nile
My alt: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate
(seeking Acquaintances and accepting all social actions)
Item conversion table - finally complete with all rare successes!
Bloody, bold and resolute
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+2
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
10/2/2015
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If we aren't getting uncapped Second Chances it'd be nice if the required number of Second Chances was capped somewhere. I would say 20, but that makes the Impossible Theorem truly impossible for most.
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edited by Sara Hysaro on 10/2/2015
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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Ian Hart
Posts: 437
10/2/2015
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Estelle Knoht wrote:
Ian Hart wrote:
Will this only apply to pinned storylets, or will it apply to cards as well?
I don't think you can do that to cards already since you lose them if you take any actions and exit.
As for the change itself.... eh, I guess Impossible Theorem is grindy enough anyway, why not add more grinding to the pile? Not particularly "interesting" for that one story though.
Also, does this affect other Storynexus game with the same mechanic? I forgot if Below have second chances too or something.
edited by Estelle Knoht on 10/1/2015
Well, at some point you're going to draw the card again.
Below does make explicit use of this mechanic. Which reminds me, are players going to be advised of this change? I imagine it could confuse a lot of new players.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Antifinity
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Koenig
Posts: 466
10/2/2015
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Out of curiosity, if I back out of a failed second chance on an opportunity card, will it get rid of the card? I am looking to change professions soon, and I am hoping not to be stuck in a second tier profession for any length of time beyond the actions it takes to upgrade.
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Koenig: Extraordinary. Invisible. Shattering. Legendary.
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
10/2/2015
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It will get rid of the opportunity card.
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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