Cash DeCuir
Posts: 22
8/3/2015
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Hello, everyone!
We have a major update to our early content coming out soon: the Tracker System. While it will be a little while yet before it is implemented, we wanted to announce it in advance.
At present, stories unlock when your Watchful, Dangerous, Shadowy, or Persuasive stats are within certain ranges. This is a model we moved away from as Fallen London evolved, and it's one we're looking to finally break from altogether.
With the Tracker System, we'll be dividing all of our early stories into a set of tiers. Watchful, Dangerous, Shadowy, and Persuasive content will now be unlocked with the relevant Tracker quality, instead of stories opening and closing depending on your current stats. As you complete content within these tiers, your relevant Tracker quality will increase, thus opening more of the world of Fallen London.
For more information, please refer to the post, linked below:
http://www.failbettergames.com/upcoming-changes-to-early-content/
And to discuss the new update, post here!
edited by Cash DeCuir on 8/3/2015
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Failbetter Writer! @CashDeCuir on Twitter.
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
8/3/2015
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metasynthie wrote:
I imagine inquiries like "where do I get Foxfire Candles?"
We have a major tech change coming that will affect that slightly for the better. </tease>
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
8/3/2015
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dov wrote:
s not the case, because this will make Fallen London a single track story common for all characters, despite appearances of being an Open World RPG based on player choices.
Design notes. This is and has always been intentional. If you don't like violence, it's very hard to advance Dangerous; if you don't like criminal activities, that rules out most Shadowy; if you don't like sex, drugs and poetry, Persuasive is a bust. People will always find ways to break the system for their own purposes, and that is not only fine but great, but we don't go out of our way to support it. Fallen London isn't an 'open world RPG' - it's a linked cycle of non-linear stories with strong elements of exploration and a lot of choice-based outcomes.
But even if it were - any 'open-world RPG' I can think of offers way less choice about character activities than Fallen London. The Witcher 3 and Skyrim are superb, but try playing a poet or a cat-burglar in either. Ultimately, any pre-written game will rule out the vast majority of roleplaying options. We can't be responsible for what characters players choose - we rule out a hundred billion options so we can focus on a hundred.
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NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
8/4/2015
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It's nice to hear that stats are going away forever. Good riddance. They weren't that important anyways haha.
[spoiler]*NiteBrite leaps out of the thread window, slamming down a bottle of oblivion in mid-air*[/spoiler]
edited by NiteBrite on 8/4/2015
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I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
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Nicola Bodill
Posts: 1
8/7/2015
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A large part of the problem is that one is required to get *all* stats to 100 in order to become a POSI. This means, if you want to progress in the game under the new schema, you are forced to be a poetic genius and accomplished socialite, a university professor, master thief and slayer of beasts all at the same time. For many people this, understandably, will produce significant role-playing difficulties. It simply isn't possible to roleplay a coherent character at all, as all the paths provided in each of the narratives are inherently contradictory, yet, all are essential for the progression of the story.
In addition, the current implementation appears to be broken. My persuasive is over 100 and I am currently in the shuttered court, however, afraid of being locked out of content, I picked the 'Veilgarden' option (the earliest one). There is now literally no way for me to progress out of this zone, as, most likely, the critical storylets are locked.
edited by Nicola Bodill on 8/7/2015
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Alex Churchill
Posts: 5
8/7/2015
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I'm completely fine with roleplaying concerns making my main unable to progress in Shadowy. But the problem is PoSI. So much content is gated behind PoSI, and it does need 100 in all four qualities. Up until this point, there was a fair amount of ambiguity where people might have got those qualities from. Someone got their 100 Persuasive from writing poetry, someone else from flirting and seducing, someone else from singing and gossiping. Someone got their 100 Watchful from archaeology, someone else from detective work, someone else from espionage and professional observation. Now it's sounding like everyone will have to do everything in order to reach PoSI levels.
That makes Fallen London feel a lot less like a diverse city populated by lots of player characters with lots of personalities and quirks. It's making it much more enforced that FL is a single-player game, that's basically linear, not really "Choose your own adventure" any more; the other PCs are illusory or off in parallel worlds. (They always were, of course - only one person can set up the Department of ______, only one person can solve the Jack-of-Smiles case. But it was a lot easier to ignore those wrinkles before.)
Edit: Yeah, what Nicola Bodill said. The idea of one character doing all four sets of stuff is fairly contradictory. But okay, I guess I'll suspend judgment and wait and see...
edited by AlexTFish on 8/7/2015
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/AlexTFish
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
8/7/2015
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Alex Churchill wrote:
Similarly to Dov, I'm concerned for roleplaying reasons. The game's registration page says "Your choices matter". It sounds like that principle might be being undermined.
My main character had a lot of difficulty getting his Shadowy high enough for POSI, due to being unwilling to steal or blackmail.
Your choices matter; but we can only provide so many choices. We wrote a cycle of linked stories, and some of the stories are about being a criminal If you're playing a pacifist, or someone who's illiterate, or someone who's confined to a wheelchair, that will rule out most of the game for you.
There will always be many, many more character concepts that don't fit in Fallen London, than concepts that do. People will find ways to break the story, and we'll sometimes do things to make that a bit easier, but it was never our intention to support every character concept that someone came to the game with.
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Wilhelm Klossner
Posts: 35
8/7/2015
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Big Scary Mouse wrote:
At the moment I am also very displeased with the changes. I was in the process of grinding SotC via "Somewhat challenging music", but the new storylet forced me out and now I can't even access the Court.
Fortunately, it seems that the bug (or whatever it was) has been just fixed. Even more, the entrance to the Court is now free. Marvellous!
edited by Big Scary Mouse on 8/7/2015
edited by Big Scary Mouse on 8/7/2015
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Big Scary Mouse — Gone NORTH
Wilhelm Klossner
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dov
Posts: 2580
8/3/2015
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I wonder if this will lock certain players from advancing based on RP choices.
For example, my character wasn't banished from the Court by choice - I'm not doing this until there's a way to regain this access because this is what's right for my character. I'm sticking with this even though it means I can't experience the Foreign Office and now Port Carnelian.
But does this new system mean that my character can't advance in the Persuasion tiers without getting banished from Court? And if so, does it means that *all* future Persuasion story won't be accessible because it's in a higher tier?
I hope this is not the case, because this will make Fallen London a single track story common for all characters, despite appearances of being an Open World RPG based on player choices.
--
 Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
(Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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dov
Posts: 2580
8/3/2015
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More thoughts on this:
While I like the idea of this change from a mechanics perspective , the more I think about this I feel this is bad from RP perspective.
Suppose that you play a character who tries to be very moral. Obviously, you'll have a harder time to advance your Shadowy quality (you won't participate in most illegal activities), but slowly you can do it, and under the old system this will unlock for you more stories and opportunities (some of which you will use, and some you won't).
In the new system (as far as I understand it), the game expects you to follow through with specific story lines chosen by the devs before new options become available.
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Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
(Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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Wilhelm Klossner
Posts: 35
8/7/2015
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Voiceless wrote:
And to add salt to a wound, it appears that I already have Celebrated Artist's Model as a companion.
Same here.
I actually chuckled when I saw the option to court her again.
At the moment I am also very displeased with the changes. I was in the process of grinding SotC via "Somewhat challenging music", but the new storylet forced me out and now I can't even access the Court.
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Big Scary Mouse — Gone NORTH
Wilhelm Klossner
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Leucosia Lacrimosa
Posts: 3
8/7/2015
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The flowers are lovely, the storylet was interesting, and the scandal reset and inexplicable five level leap in Persuasive were very nice indeed.
But man, oh man, I would have loved not to have been forced out of the Flit and thrown into the Court, just to be forced back out into the Shuttered Palace and barred from entering it again. That was...less than enjoyable. And those Court storylets looked like so much fun too!
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Szadovar
Posts: 113
8/7/2015
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So it seems that under the new system you can enjoy the benefits of the Duchess' Salon only for a limited amount of time - as it is set to require "A Name Signed with a Flourish" of exactly 4. Why do it like this? Her salon was just about the only reason to visit the Palace I had left...
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Szadovar
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genesis
Posts: 924
8/3/2015
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A couple more clarifying questions:
1. Presumably this applies both to the pinned storylets and the opportunity cards?
2. Regarding this quote:
Cash DeCuir wrote:
There will be some minor storylets that close off when your Tracker quality increases and new tiers open.
Will these storylets be identifiable? Currently many options/storylets have hidden lock criteria where you don't necessarily know they they are only temporary or that they get locked out if you have certain qualities. Will that remain the case or will we know which storylets are in danger of vanishing?
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/mikey_thinkin
Keeping track of incomplete content and loose ends in Fallen London
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lady ciel
Posts: 2548
8/3/2015
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That is very different. There is some early content that I have skipped with later characters - so I am wondering what will happen if you don't have the necessary qualities when this comes live.
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ciel
Sorry RL means I am not a very active player at the moment. No social actions unless you are prepared to wait and definitely no sparring or other mult-action things.
No Calling Cards or boxed cats please. Will take dupes on the affluent photographers. Other social invitations welcome. Parabolan Kittens usually available, send me an in-game social action saying you want one and I will get one to you as soon as possible.
storynexus name - reveurciel
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Danko
Posts: 142
8/4/2015
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I really have no idea how it will work at this point.
I'm not sure if it's wise to fix something that is not broken - I think it's working great at this moment - but let's hope it will ease the experience for new players and therefore bring FB much money in long term.
It does worry me a little that the leveling will be more linear now. FL always felt like open world, a real city, where you can do anything you like, anywhere, at any point. And if you don't want to do something, you never have to.
Being locked in a linear "watchful guy" storyline and fed content at limited intervals will be helpful for new players, but I'm not entirely convinced it's in the best heart and soul of Fallen London.
But I won't be quick to judge, so let's see how it goes!
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Danko
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xKiv
Posts: 846
8/4/2015
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What of characters on high tiers, who delevel stats near zero? Will there be enough low-level content left unlocked for them (but "swept under the rug" for high-stat characters, so as not to take too much space?), or will they be left to grinding second chances?
How much of a tier will one need to complete before graduation? All, most, or just some?
Will one be able to finish all of a tier or will there be many mutually exclusive parts?
(Will 100%-ing a tier be easy/impossible/an achievement?)
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
8/4/2015
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I might recommend that, once this is implemented, please make liberal use of feedback@failbettergames.com for any bugs, changes or ideas you might have.
Direct feedback is always more helpful to the developers and to the game as a whole than even the most well intentioned forum whinging.
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The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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Ben
Posts: 657
8/5/2015
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Alexis Kennedy wrote:
The answer to most of these questions is 'wait and see' and in some cases 'TBD'.
I like the thought that the comunity (we) can ask questions that you've not figured the answers for... not knowing a thing is important sometimes.
Just like some names are better unknown.
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The wind has no destination.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/IcountFrom0
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merusdraconis
Posts: 52
8/5/2015
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It sounds like the intention is less a linear progression of stories, as the current early game content stands, and having it structured more like, say, Court, where there's several storylines available at once. It sounds like the Tracker's built so that instead of grinding one's primary stats up, you succeed in a few storylines, each of which raises the tracker up a step, and then that unlocks a storyline where your social status changes.
It sounds like a fine change, not least because it suggests a confidence in the intended pace of progress (it should take x number of actions to explore this tier of content, so the players' stats should grow at y rate, but we should boost their stats by a, b and c at these boundaries) that the current early-game content absolutely does not have. It also suggests there might be latitude for some players to opt out of some minor storylines entirely, or, at least, decide very early on that you don't approve of devils and you're certainly not going to watch their storehouses.
As the early game is probably still going to be more primary stat driven than the late game is, you could probably also do neat things like use stat growth as a storytelling device. Have actions that appear a few times along their journey, that players are intended to fail at at first. Imagine going to the Ambassador's Ball as a hired musician and making a hash of being charming, say.
Only other thought I have is how this'll affect PoSI - currently, PoSI checks for reaching 100 in each primary stat and then a bunch of story-related checks, which are probably going to be rolled into the trackers. Would the PoSI unlocks be tied to a tracker as well, instead of a linear sequence of checks (including opportunity cards)?
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metasynthie
Posts: 645
8/5/2015
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PoSI strikes me as a strange convergence with the tracker system, since it sounds like in the new system, getting 100s all around will more or less require you to have gone through the tracker checkpoints for all four attributes. Which is a fine way to ensure players see all the content, and a bit like the way many branching-narrative games reach a point of reconvergence that all paths eventually lead to -- but it does also create that thing where every player becomes "irresistible, inescapable, terrifying and midnight" or whatever.
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Positively antique
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
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BlakeTheDrake
Posts: 237
8/7/2015
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Well, it seems like the first part of this just kicked in... I got a weird storylet when I entered Veilgarden, had to make a few choices about where I was in regard to Persuasive stories. It... doesn't seem to work very well, though. Several of the highest-tier storylets in The Shuttered Palace are just GONE now, and I can't access The Imperial Court anymore. Which is really, really unfortunate since I was in the middle of grinding up my Bohemian connection to 60 so I could establish a Saloon, and also finishing up the last few masterpieces as the Imperial Artist-In-Residence...
EDIT: The most advanced storylet available was the 'Commission for a Royal Portrait' one, so I figured I maybe just needed to re-do that one? But when I activated it, the storylets that would NORMALLY appear to allow me to boost my Inspired... - didn't. So yeah. This thing isn't really ready for prime-time yet. I wonder if it got activated by accident...
edited by BlakeTheDrake on 8/7/2015
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One of these days, I will remember to record interesting things in my journal...
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/BlakeTheDrake
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Alex Churchill
Posts: 5
8/7/2015
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Similarly to Dov, I'm concerned for roleplaying reasons. The game's registration page says "Your choices matter". It sounds like that principle might be being undermined.
My main character had a lot of difficulty getting his Shadowy high enough for POSI, due to being unwilling to steal or blackmail. There were things I could do; he practiced freerunning in the Flit, made friends with thieves, and did a lot of conjuring tricks for the Topsy King and similar. (Ended up selling the location of the Nadir to buy some Lenguals to get the final Shadowy boost for POSI.) Even now, most of the Unfinished Business in Spite is off-limited to him, but that doesn't permanently block him from most things, just makes a few bits harder. Assuming that one of the major graduation points for Shadowy is going to involve a theft, would he be permanently blocked from advancing beyond a certain lowish point?
Similarly my alt, though she's very happy to steal from anything that does or doesn't deserve it, Does Not Write Poetry. She's very happy to float around Society and Bohemians, flirt and seduce and flatter and gossip, but she Does Not Write Poetry.
I hope this won't mean such characters can't progress beyond a low level. The idea that *every* character of Some Importance in Fallen London has written a Mushroom Epic... doesn't fill me with confidence.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/AlexTFish
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Voiceless
Posts: 24
8/7/2015
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And even as I clicked the highest story options I'm suddenly locked away from Imperial Court and my options in Shuttered Palace reverted to the ones I had much earlier, erasing all my work in this place. What the point of this system? To throw people back just because they didn't romance The Struggling Artist's Model? I already went through all those options, I'm past them but yet, due to this 'improved' system I had to go back and paint that stupid portrait again when I already have my copy of Allegorical Satire and all other works?
I'm very upset.
edited by Voiceless on 8/7/2015
edited by Voiceless on 8/7/2015
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Voiceless
Posts: 24
8/7/2015
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And to add salt to a wound, it appears that I already have Celebrated Artist's Model as a companion. Having my progress reset regardless of my accomplishments is not fun, not immersive and not fair.
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Gillsing
Posts: 1203
8/7/2015
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Is "You're striving to become Imperial Artist-in-Residence" supposed to result in this?
"Just so!"
"That's it! … Oh! You're the one they're singing about! You didn't know? That romance has become the stuff of song all about town!"
Because it doesn't exactly look like an affirmation of that choice. Is it a hint that the 'Artist-in-Residence strife' could only happen after an earlier romance? Because if so, it would probably be helpful for people to know which options are higher tier than others, in case they want to make sure they don't miss a lower tier.
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Flyte
Administrator
Posts: 671
8/7/2015
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Cross-posting: if you regret the current level of your A Name Signed with a Flourish quality, this access code will allow you to reset it, once.
Use it soon; we'll retire it in a few days.
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Flyte
Administrator
Posts: 671
8/7/2015
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metasynthie wrote:
I hear the pitter-patter of quirk-chasing feet scrambling to boost quirks above 10, using the access code, then quirking again... just sayin' That's fine! We know some people will also use it for the free Persuasive boost, too, and we're okay with that.
Shalinoth wrote:
I'm wondering, is it ill-advised to just choose the earliest (lowest stat requirement) option every time, in the hopes of playing content you may have missed due to the old system relying on stat lockouts? That's precisely what these options are intended to allow. The only potential disadvantage is that you'll be locked out of a lot of higher-level Persuasive content until you raise A Name Signed with a Flourish through play.
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