xKiv
Posts: 846
7/24/2015
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I wonder two things:
1) how long does it take now to hunt a plated seal?
2) is experienced zailor stil hard-capped at 20? (if the cap is higher, I would have an excuse to perpetrate some more zailery)
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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thedeadlymoose
Posts: 214
7/24/2015
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Theus wrote:
"Better boats:" There's a bit of a delicate balance right now, and I think that attempts to change it would be difficult to balance.
Steamer - cheap
Clipper - expensive, most useful option when zailing
Yacht - expensive, most useful option when not zailing
Zubmarine - expensive, a little useful when zailing, a little useful when not zailing.
edited by Theus on 7/23/2015
I would argue otherwise. I don't think there's any delicate balance; because of BDR, the yacht is simply the best, followed by the zub, followed by the clipper, followed by the steamer.
This may have changed with these changes. I will leave that to better minds than mine, and temporarily proceed with my present assumptions.
I would suggest the following:
- Leave the Steamer as-is. It doesn't need to change for balance reasons, because the price can remain the only reason to get it.
- (Or, optionally, add a Steamer card that emphasizes the unreliability aspect: a chance-based card with a high chance of a negative result, a low chance of a decent result, and a small chance of a rare success of a very good result. The latter so that people will actually want to play the card, but usually it will result in something negative.)
- Bump the Zubmarine to +2 Bizarre, and add +2 Dreaded to the Clipper. This is pretty much for balance reasons.
- Optionally, ship improvements could be a thing! A Clipper could be upgraded to a Privateer Clipper to earn the +2 Dreaded, and the Zubmarine could be adorned with artifacts of Unterzee marvels to earn another point to Bizarre. Also, acquiring extra expense to obtain the extra BD points fits with the tradition of making Respectable easier to acquire than Bizarre and Dreaded.
- The Clipper is now mechanically the best ship with these improvements, which is still something to avoid. This can be counter-balanced by improving the cards for the Yacht and Zubmarine. The easiest way is profit; the Zubmarine's card could grant more profit in appropriate items such as zee-ztories and appalling secrets, or even extraordinary implications depending on what you find down there where no one else can go but the Drownies -- mechanically, splitting the difference between profit and speed. The Yacht's card could simply stay as it is but improve the profit further on the unique card.
This may be overly simplistic, of course! Especially if there are unknown mechanical changes yet in store, especially to the dramatic value of BDR. So take this with a grain of salt. Zee-zalt?
EDIT: Fixed a word.
edited by thedeadlymoose on 7/24/2015
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/Red~Rose
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Lemexis
Posts: 155
7/24/2015
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I humbly approve of these propositions. I acquired the Clipper because I was attracted by its speed and now I regret it deeply, because a +2 to BDR (even if respectable is easier to acquire) is much more useful. Especially so now that I done all the zailing I wanted to do. And I don't want to just drop that ship (if only we could have multiple ones) because it cost me so much (grinding those uses of villains was so tedious it still gives me nightmares - even grinding the permits for the premises at the Bazaar wasn't such a chore) and I assume the yacht isn't much cheaper.
But if it could increase Dreaded by 2... That would wash away the sorrow of a poor old soul.
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Feed me your most terrible secrets
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Jeremy Avalon
Posts: 345
7/24/2015
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The Yacht is enormously expensive -- you have to pass a luck check at roughly 20% odds to actually get it, and failure costs you one-fifth of the price of the ship. (Or you can pay Fate.) That's part of the reason it's so much "better".
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How we must glow; yes, I bet we look like snow.
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Lemexis
Posts: 155
7/24/2015
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Bloody hell, if you would pardon me being so crude. But I have 23 BDR already, so I guess that should be enough...
Do you at least get something when you change ship ? Do you sell your former ship or does it just go to waste ?
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Miss Perative
Posts: 46
7/24/2015
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My two cents: I love these changes. The speed on the outward journey was wonderful. During the trip home, the unlimited draw added to my Exceptional Friendship meant that I could enjoy the process of going home, instead of waiting for my deck to refresh and letting my candle reload. A three card deck is plenty for me--I may have to use a less-than-optimal card from time to time, but for the most part I came home merrily and disembarked from my Yacht with an armload of scarlet stockings.
FWIW: I happened to have a bunch of fate on hand when I obtained my Yacht so I spent that on every phase of the ship-gaining process. At the time there weren't any fate-locked stories that I wanted to take advantage of and I had the thing in a matter of actions, without the gamble. It's not a negligible amount of fate (though I don't remember how much anymore), but if you're dead set on a Yacht, it's one way to obtain one without risking your possessions. I've never regretted it.
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I've removed my profile link for the time being as I don't play often enough these days to engage in social actions.
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Jeremy Avalon
Posts: 345
7/24/2015
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Lemexis wrote:
Bloody hell, if you would pardon me being so crude. But I have 23 BDR already, so I guess that should be enough...
Do you at least get something when you change ship ? Do you sell your former ship or does it just go to waste ?
Two echoes! (Not kidding.)
For what it's worth, the absolute maximum possible BDR is 32, which requires you play during the Feast of the Rose in at least two separate years (so as to get a second tattoo), and spend at least 240 Fate on yourself, including certain gifts that have to be sent to you during the Feast of the Rose. So there are probably other ways you can improve it without selling your ship immediately.
edited by Jeremy Avalon on 7/24/2015
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How we must glow; yes, I bet we look like snow.
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Lemexis
Posts: 155
7/25/2015
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Can you at least throw those 2 echoes in the face of Mr Iron ?
Meh, I'll think I'll keep the clipper then. I think the only ways left for me to improve my BDR would be a rubbery spouse (although paying 100 fate just for that seems... unreasonnable - I only pay fate for stories, not for rewards or shortcuts). I was lucky enough to start the game in the middle of the feast so I got a bizarre tatoo.
And now... I don't know. I probably won't need more BDR until I can achieve tier 2 POSI and then get a 5 cards lodgings, so I'll think about that later. With any luck, they will have added +2 dreaded to the clipper by then ! 
edited by Lemexis on 7/25/2015
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Happy Londoner
Posts: 74
7/25/2015
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Jeremy Avalon wrote:
you have to pass a luck check
You probably mean a "setback check"? No. A "sheer hatred check" would be the word. (Just had the pleasure of getting aquainted with it a couple of minutes ago after a week-long grinding distance)
edited by Happy Londoner on 7/25/2015
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My profile: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Happy~Londoner
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marcmagus
Posts: 168
7/25/2015
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I noticed, because I am not that experienced, that the levels for "An Experienced Zailor" have been adjusted, presumably as part of this update.
"A Well-Known Navigator", and its attendant option on "A Wily Zailor" now unlocks at 4 rather than 5. [On my profile at present, but I think I'm about to level to 5, so I've taken a screenshot just in case anybody wants to see; pm me]
If people can nail down the other rankings, I'd be happy to update the wiki.
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marcmagus, a scholar of the Correspondence of some minor note and bold explorer of the new Unterzee.
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Szadovar
Posts: 113
7/25/2015
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I'm "A Zee-Voyager of Note" with AEZ 7.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Szadovar
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Lemexis
Posts: 155
7/25/2015
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I am too, and I think I am at level 6. Or 5. I'll check next time I take to Zee (which should be very soon).
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metasynthie
Posts: 645
7/25/2015
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I kind of like that the ships are so different, and aren't really evenly balanced against each other. The one that's unbalanced, I suspect, is the Zubmarine -- it's extremely expensive compared to the other two. I mean, 13 Use of Villains is the largest cost for the Clipper, vs. 20 Whirring Contraptions for the Zubmarine; that's 221 actions vs. 880 actions. My rough estimate of grinding materials for each of these ships (and an average number of attempts needed to win Apples' yacht) is that the Yacht takes about twice as long as the Clipper, and the Zub about twice as long as the Yacht.
The Zubmarine right now mostly enjoys bragging rights and "sheer awesomeness" as its benefit, but at twice the price of the Yacht, it seems like it ought to give a little more tangible benefit too. Even 10% better than the Yacht, at twice the price, would feel more sensible. But then again, FL's balance often errs more on the side of "you'd choose this only for story and character purpose, even though -- and because -- it's mechanically unbalanced" so maybe that's fine.
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Positively antique
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Lemexis
Posts: 155
7/25/2015
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Wow, and I thought that grinding for my trusty Clipper was the most annoying thing in the game...
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marcmagus
Posts: 168
7/25/2015
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I didn't think ahead: to avoid further cluttering this thread, please contribute AEZ titles over at http://community.failbettergames.com/topic20275-an-experienced-zailor-new-ranks.aspx
I've noticed many of the cards give a different amount of AJE/TW than previously; getting the wiki accurate is going to take a lot of exploration.
edited by marcmagus on 7/25/2015
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marcmagus, a scholar of the Correspondence of some minor note and bold explorer of the new Unterzee.
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An Individual
Posts: 589
7/25/2015
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NiteBrite wrote:
Hmm did my casing not reset when I went to Zee? I think I kept my casing.
I didn't lose mine either. It appears zailing no longer interferes with our nefarious plans back in London.
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The RNG giveth and the RNG taketh away.
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Scholaring the Correspondence? A Brief Guide to Courier's Footprint.
Contemplating Oblivion? First Steps on the Seeking Road.
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thedeadlymoose
Posts: 214
7/26/2015
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Jeremy Avalon wrote:
The Yacht is enormously expensive -- you have to pass a luck check at roughly 20% odds to actually get it, and failure costs you one-fifth of the price of the ship. (Or you can pay Fate.) That's part of the reason it's so much "better".
Not hardly. The Zubmarine is far harder to get unless you are very unlucky indeed. Yet the Yacht is much "better".
(I should note that I'm a proponent of just getting what ship you like best, so I'm just talking mechanically here. I've done the zub grind twice across two characters, so I would say that I am a fan -- of the zub, not the grind. The zub grind is nearly mind-breaking in some ways; I think I've tolerated it better because I just mentally write off the character currently doing that grind for the time being.)
The Clipper is, of course, the easiest to grind out of the ships with relevant costs, by quite a lot. Sorry Lemexis :X
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Hypersomnus
Posts: 76
7/26/2015
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An Individual wrote:
NiteBrite wrote:
Hmm did my casing not reset when I went to Zee? I think I kept my casing.
I didn't lose mine either. It appears zailing no longer interferes with our nefarious plans back in London.
Does this mean we can grind dramatic tension on Hunter's Keep for use in Wilmot's End? Or is only casing not reset?
edited by Hypersomnus on 7/26/2015
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Maxwell Q Tenebris; Agelastic Ailuromancer, Scarlet Saint, Monochromatic Myrmidon and Correspondent
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
7/26/2015
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Hypersomnus wrote:
Does this mean we can grind dramatic tension on Hunter's Keep for use in Wilmot's End? Or is only casing not reset
Only one way to find out.
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The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
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Hypersomnus
Posts: 76
7/26/2015
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Nigel Overstreet wrote:
Hypersomnus wrote:
Does this mean we can grind dramatic tension on Hunter's Keep for use in Wilmot's End? Or is only casing not reset
Only one way to find out.
Setting zail! Will report back upon return.
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Maxwell Q Tenebris; Agelastic Ailuromancer, Scarlet Saint, Monochromatic Myrmidon and Correspondent
Accepting all social actions besides loitering and Photographer.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? get on the list!
A Map of the Iron Republic
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