Ian Hart
Posts: 437
7/2/2015
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In regards to the reward;
[spoiler]
If you ask the dream for a reward, she will reward you, and explicitly warn you that she will not reward you in any way for actually going through with doing what she wants. It's two 12.5 E items, in addition to the raven. Yes, you could argue that this reward can also be taken in the 'evil' endings, but it is still, in-universe, her only way of paying you for doing what she wants, and she says as much.
Additionally, I wouldn't assume that smashing the mirror is the "good" ending, even for her dream self. If I were a brilliant revolutionary agent trying to play a memory eating monster into giving me valuable information, I would certainly send it memories indicating that the plan was failing, so it's no surprise that the mirror self seems to think that's what's happening. However, in contrast, her awake self seems to know quite a few worthwhile things that her dream self doesn't, even if her mind seems mostly gone.
The 'smash it' option is certainly a simple way to make sure everything that was happening is brought to a halt, but that doesn't mean it's the best outcome for anyone, and it's well signposted that it is not the best outcome for you.
[/spoiler]
edited by Ian Hart on 7/2/2015
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Sir Joseph Marlen
Posts: 575
7/3/2015
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I'm curious as to what everyone thought was the "good" option if any one option could be labeled as such.
[spoiler]
Your stances on the Bazaar's ultimate goal and the Liberation of Night would play heavily into that decision. Handing down the mirror to either opposing faction could be seen as furthering the goals of a cause you may deem noble, monstrous, profitable, or simply interesting. Neither of the two are without consequence, both positive and negative, each dabbling in somewhat dubious means to reach an idealistic end.
Then there's the option to return the mirror to July. While she's not quite in what many would deem a sound state of mind (or at least what's left of it) we have to remember that the "July" trapped in Parabola isn't the actual her. It's merely an apparition of her memories, echoing thoughts from her past. Who's to say that we're truly serving the wants of the real July? One could take this option as a merciful way of allowing July to bask in an ignorant stupor far from her twisted and confusing reality. Is dragging her back really what she would want, let alone what would be best for her? Not to mention the opportunity of designing a future for yourself in Paris 1908, each future possibly serving a personal goal or end of your own.
Finally, we have the choice of destroying the mirror. This is no doubt what the memory-wraith "July" wanted of us, to free herself from the deal with the Orts and save what's left of her real world counterpart. Maybe the best option for July is to erase the visions of her future and return her sanity. Perhaps you believe her not in the right state of mind to actually make that decision for herself. While this may seem the more magnanimous of the options by keeping your deal to save someone from phantom dreams, not only are you denying aid to a cause you may or may not deem moral, but what remains of July after the more political choices lays uncertain. I assumed that the deal was still left intact, but the future you saw is smashed should you do anything but give July the mirror. Is this due to the future being altered by your intervention or is the mirror's fate similar to if you had destroyed it then and there? Is this option a way to hold true to "July" and her wishes while avoiding to support any outside factions involved?
[/spoiler]
Regardless, I found this Exception Story to be the best so far and a great way to question the morals of my character. While I myself went with what many are labeling the "right" option, I must admit that I've been debating redoing the story whenever it becomes available for purchase and favoring a certain cloaked figure instead. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter and how you perceived the whole affair.
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 7/3/2015
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Sir Joseph Marlen - The Romantic Sophist
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Cappuccino - The Perfidious Spycraft
Available for any and all social actions.
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Passionario
Posts: 777
7/3/2015
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Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
I'm curious as to what everyone thought was the "good" option if any one option could be labeled as such.
Anarchy quelled. Beauty upheld. All shall be well.
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IHNIWTR
Posts: 346
7/3/2015
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Go right ahead and use whatever you like from my post!
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genesis
Posts: 924
7/3/2015
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For those interested in what happens when you decide to give up: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Jonathan~Norrell?fromEchoId=6066362
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Brad O'Connell
Posts: 72
7/3/2015
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Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
I'm curious as to what everyone thought was the "good" option if any one option could be labeled as such.
[spoiler]
The choice which frees July, or really any individual (as I'm willing to accept that July may not be a good person and argue that if she was you can't reliably expect her to be anymore), from manipulation that extends to alteration of the person in question via memory removal by a being known to our characters to be dangerous and unpredictable to deal with (a la: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Teleri?fromEchoId=6046747) and which does not also put the fate of said individual into the hands of other for profit. For my character that rules out leaving her under the effects of the Orts, selling her out the Masters, especially Cups (Teleri is ambition: nemesis) or selling her out to February, with whom he was in competition (http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Challenge_February_to_a_competition) Note the line: February enjoys havoc too much, and her people will die a hundred times for her.
That being said, if you or your character genuinely believes either the Masters or Revolutionaries or Cups and February, in particular, to be "good" handing over to the mirror to them would be a perfectly "good" choice. Handing the mirror back to July seems to me to be the only option which is more "evil" in essence. You want the future you saw to happen, but you're willing to leave July to a nest of memory stealing alien beings to let it happen. Regardless of her original choice in the matter, the Orts have altered her to an extent that she is not in control pf her actions. It would be like handing an alcoholic an endless keg of beer, because you like how that turns out for you. The only situation in which that could be a "good" choice is if you think the Orts are good AND working in July's best interest, which I have no reason to believe.
Thoughts?
[/spoiler]
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
7/3/2015
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So I decided to look up the "Mondragón rifle" mentioned in the text. I'm glad I did. General Manuel Mondragón was a Mexican officer and weapons designer who served the governments of President Diaz (who could generously be described as a powerful moderniser and less generously be described as a ruthless dictator) and President Huerta (who managed to betray the post-Diaz revolutionary government, alienate his American supporters, and get himself forced into exile, all within a couple of years.
[spoiler]To have an anarchist assassin employing a cutting-edge 1908 rifle designed by a counter-revolutionary officer who himself took part in a conspiracy that ended in the assassination of the progressive President Madero... well, I suspect the irony would not be lost on the Calendar Council. In our own timeline, Mondragón was awarded the French Legion of Honour. I suspect that might not be happening for his Neathverse equivalent. And I am generally delighted to see FL's narrative touch on this fascinating period in Mexico's history![/spoiler]
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briath
Posts: 6
7/3/2015
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i thought this was the best exceptional story so far (honestly, it was delightful), and while i think the ending was well-done and really like it, i am a bit sad that this whole adventure seems to have left no impact on my character the way the rewards/losses worked?
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Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2518
7/3/2015
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Brad O'Connell wrote:
Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
I'm curious as to what everyone thought was the "good" option if any one option could be labeled as such.
[spoiler]
The choice which frees July, or really any individual (as I'm willing to accept that July may not be a good person and argue that if she was you can't reliably expect her to be anymore), from manipulation that extends to alteration of the person in question via memory removal by a being known to our characters to be dangerous and unpredictable to deal with (a la: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Teleri?fromEchoId=6046747) and which does not also put the fate of said individual into the hands of other for profit. For my character that rules out leaving her under the effects of the Orts, selling her out the Masters, especially Cups (Teleri is ambition: nemesis) or selling her out to February, with whom he was in competition (http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Challenge_February_to_a_competition) Note the line: February enjoys havoc too much, and her people will die a hundred times for her.
That being said, if you or your character genuinely believes either the Masters or Revolutionaries or Cups and February, in particular, to be "good" handing over to the mirror to them would be a perfectly "good" choice. Handing the mirror back to July seems to me to be the only option which is more "evil" in essence. You want the future you saw to happen, but you're willing to leave July to a nest of memory stealing alien beings to let it happen. Regardless of her original choice in the matter, the Orts have altered her to an extent that she is not in control pf her actions. It would be like handing an alcoholic an endless keg of beer, because you like how that turns out for you. The only situation in which that could be a "good" choice is if you think the Orts are good AND working in July's best interest, which I have no reason to believe.
Thoughts?
[/spoiler]
I agree that selling July out, though richer in material rewards for one's character, is not the ethical choice.
edited by cathyr19355 on 7/3/2015
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Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355
Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Emain Ablach
Posts: 348
7/3/2015
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The story was... great ! The character is very interesting, and the choices, even though I could do them again, left me hesitating for some time... Congratulations on making such a great storylet ! 
The quantity of text was surprising as well, and I really liked their diversity. Thank you for such a great creation !
[spoiler]It was nice to learn how some of the Fingerkings work ; and all that thing about the memories taking shape and a personality for themselves to become a distorded version of the original person was very cool...and rather sad.
I was curious to see more about the Orts's nest, if there are other rooms for example, but I understand that's a monthly story so there won't be so much text... and there is already a loooooot of it ! ='D
One thing is bothering me... in all the glimpses of the future, there is only one in which your character isn't involded in the Emperor/M. Mourvèdre (I laughed when I saw this grape variety ! good one ^_^) trouble : the Persuasive future. You're here, but you're not part of the scheme. Strange, no ?[/spoiler]
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Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
Posts: 1372
7/3/2015
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genesis wrote:
For those interested in what happens when you decide to give up: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Jonathan~Norrell?fromEchoId=6066362
Thanks, I'll edit my results links post.
Also, if your username is a Susanna Clarke homage, (a) high-five and (b) my brain just broke.
edited by an_ocelot on 7/3/2015
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genesis
Posts: 924
7/3/2015
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Thanks That's one of my alts. I also have a Gilbert Strange ;-)
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Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
Posts: 1372
7/3/2015
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Okay, if you're just mixing and matching their names, that's one thing, I was trying to imagine an in-universe Jonathan Norrell and, uh, NO.
(OT, but quick: y'all know _Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell_ is a BBC show, right? Just finished airing in UK, still in progress in US.)
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Blaine Davidson
Posts: 388
7/3/2015
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May as well add my two-cents in on this. Very happy with this month's story. Unlike the other two there was actually weight to your actions. The problems encountered in the last two stories just seem trivial compared to this.
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Blaine Davidson, a reserved and sensible woman with a fondness of collecting rarities.
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Emain Ablach
Posts: 348
7/3/2015
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I don't think the problems in the monthly stories should always be very important. It's nice that their importance changes, that sometimes you're part of something trifling, and sometimes of something linked to the future of [spoiler] the Neath and the Eiffel Tower itself.[/spoiler]
edited by Emain Ablach on 7/3/2015
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Went NORTH. Got salted. Never came back. We won't remember him.
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Arcsbane
Posts: 18
7/3/2015
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I have to agree that the difference in rewards was very disheartening. I'm an advancing player who seeks the materials necessary or desirable to grow. As such, I felt and usually always feel that these "moral dilemma" choices aren't moral dilemmas. They come down to a choice of material things or what my character would do. And I honestly don't think that is a fair choice. I have to agree with Blake on page 3 that these are beginning to leave a sour taste. It's getting to the point where I'm just going to start doing terrible things and turn my character into a demon simply because I know the rewards are pretty much guaranteed to be better.
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An Individual
Posts: 589
7/3/2015
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Just adding my voice to the chorus of praise. The story was fantastic. A little disappointed that I chose the one ending without a unique reward but such is life. Some time it's hard to do the right thing. Or the wrong thing. Or whatever thing that was.
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genesis
Posts: 924
7/3/2015
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Question:
[spoiler]
I am in the House of Mirrors. Is it worthwhile taking Honey Laudanum with me? As in, is it the "normal" mirror marches from which I can make my way to the RBH and thence leave with my dreams intact? Or is it a special place and honeyed laudanum is not going to help?
[/spoiler]
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lady ciel
Posts: 2548
7/3/2015
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Answer
[spoiler] It is a special place not the normal Mirror Marches [/spoiler]
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storynexus name - reveurciel
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genesis
Posts: 924
7/3/2015
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Thank you
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