dov
Posts: 2580
5/28/2015
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Very nice guide. Good work!
I've never tried the Long-Lost Daughter story, because I was under the impression that the community's consensus is that it's not worth it. Was I wrong?
(Also, can someone please PM me the results of the Nadir opportunity which comes with this story?)
And one minor nitpick: you have a typo in the Soul Trade section - it's "Nevercold Brass Sliver", not "silver" :-)
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 Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
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MissCrumpet
Posts: 113
5/28/2015
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Estelle Knoht wrote:
Begging for input, PM and everything you have about fate-locked stories even though I played a lot of them I don't take notes
Currently need details on:
A Trade in Faces
Blemmigan Affair
The Gift
Bound in Diocesan Intrigue
Everything
edited by Estelle Knoht on 5/28/2015
This is great! I also wonder if the more specific info on rewards is breaking the spoilers rule. I don't know if specifying how much connected points or deep amber is necessary, though, so I think this chart is really useful even if you have to remove those details.
Other Fate-locked stories:
Flute Street
The two extra archaeological expeditions in the Forgotten Quarter
I'm trying to think of more... There are tons of other Fate-unlocked items (Merry Gentleman card option, the option to clear lacre, and many special event dependent things), but they aren't really stories.
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Julia C, a creatively named lady. I am always looking to expand my circle of acquaintances and enjoy pleasant social interactions.
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
5/28/2015
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I think the Blemmigan image has the info for the third ending in for the second. I chose the second option and unlocked a branch on the Constables card to get Proscribed Material and Certifiable Scraps.
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BlakeTheDrake
Posts: 237
5/28/2015
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Concerning the 'long-lost daughter' story... where the difference between the two possible endings is stark indeed. Could anyone tell me how I make sure I go for the more... profitable ending? I've gone through the story just now, and reached a juncture where I must choose to trust, or not. My instinct tells me to be... skeptical, but I really don't want to take any chances.
Well, I suppose I'm mainly fishing for a helping PM, but it DOES raise an important question - namely, whether it's possible to put some cryptic information into these fate-storyline descriptions to help guide people towards their desired endings without spoilers. Generic statements that only make sense when you're facing the actual choice, y'know? For example, with The Gift, [spoiler]one could say "For the second ending, give of yourself freely."[/spoiler] Makes no sense on its own, but when you're facing the final choice, the meaning becomes abundantly clear.
Hannah edit: adding spoiler tags
edited by h4nchan on 5/29/2015
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One of these days, I will remember to record interesting things in my journal...
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/BlakeTheDrake
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RandomWalker
Posts: 948
5/28/2015
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Sent a PM. I would very strongly recommend against hints for the outcomes. Some people like to make the decisions based on the character they're playing. Knowledge of the outcome makes that harder. It could also count as a severe spoiler in some circumstances. Better to ask for a hint in the forums or IRC.
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BlakeTheDrake
Posts: 237
5/28/2015
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Thanks for the clues... well, you might have a point about people preferring to make pure, 'character'-based choices. I can certainly understand that. But that DOES mean that if you're deliberately aiming for a particular outcome, you ARE going to wind up worrying. After all, even if they CAN be reset, doing so costs a load of Fate... nobody wants to go through a 25-fate storyline looking for a particular reward, wind up making the wrong choice somewhere, and then be faced with either giving up on their desire or paying ANOTHER 25 fate to take another shot at it...
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One of these days, I will remember to record interesting things in my journal...
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RandomWalker
Posts: 948
5/28/2015
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Take your point, but generally the final rewards are very well signposted in the story (at least in general terms). There are exceptions, of course, but not many.
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BlakeTheDrake
Posts: 237
5/28/2015
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True, though I'd venture that The Gift really, really DOESN'T let you know a damn thing about what you get out of it in the end. It also isn't always obvious WHEN you're at the final choice - as is the case with The Long-Lost Daughter - which can lead to unnecessary dithering and worrying about a seemingly-important choice that turns out to be merely penultimate.
But yeah - definitely a lot of pros and cons and double-edged swords in this subject. Perhaps better to err on the side of caution, as you suggested. Asking for information over PM is a useful exercise in social networking, after all... :p
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One of these days, I will remember to record interesting things in my journal...
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/BlakeTheDrake
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
5/29/2015
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[spoiler] [/spoiler]
Thanks for the feedback!
I am not too sure about how specific I should be either. I was hoping to just make something that helps people to decide whether they buy a story, and maybe make a reasonable guess of what effect will their decisions have based on the list of reward / factions.
Most of the time you can work it out pretty well, since FBG does signpost the final decision point pretty clearly. You'd still need to ask other for help to compare notes / smaller decisions / things.
Still quite unsure about how specific I should be about reward numbers. I mean I keep seeing these posts about THE CARD FROM THE GIFT SUCKS, and I hope people can decide if they see what the cards give/
edited by Estelle Knoht on 5/29/2015
edited by Estelle Knoht on 5/29/2015
Hannah edit: adding spoiler tags
edited by h4nchan on 5/29/2015
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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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dov
Posts: 2580
5/29/2015
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My take on the new opp card from The Gift is that, while it is useless in terms of echo-value it provides, the story was *SO GOOD* that when I see the card pop up I'm not annoyed at the useless card, but fondly remember the storyline.
And I'd really appreciate a PM regarding whether the Long-Lost Daughter story is considered worth it (I thought most people did not recommend it) and what are the Nadir implications of that story.
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Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
(Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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Danko
Posts: 142
5/29/2015
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Estelle, do you consider making such guide for other fate-locked stories that aren't accessible from Nex page, such as Labyrinth of Tigers, Secrets Framed in Gold, Flute Street and other significant stories? There are quite a few, and honestly I think they're just as important.
I would also appreciate a more spoiler-free version, possibly? Without showing choices and rewards.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Danko
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Kylestien
Posts: 749
5/29/2015
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As it is I like the current guide, though I'd love to see additions with the other fate content. as for rewards, I like knowing them. For example, i brought the Long Lost Daughter card for the Nadir option.
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I will accept all actions, though I hold the right to refuse for my own reasons. However, if you explain WHY you send me a harmful action like Loitering or Dantes,And I feel the reason good, I will consider it more. http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Kylestien
Persuasive patron. You want a lesson, send me a message asking for one.
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
5/29/2015
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I will do the higher level stories in a day or two.
Spoiler-free version... Sure, why not?
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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Hannah Flynn
Administrator
Posts: 491
5/29/2015
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(I've added some spoiler tags in the thread, as we're in spoiler territory with some of the summaries, particularly for The Gift. We'd remind everyone to be liberal with use of spoiler tags.)
I appreciate all of this discussion and work, y'all are ace. I don't think we're quite at a solution though. My thoughts:
Images aren't a good way of conveying information: they're not searchable or accessible (inc to screen readers) and they're not future proof. All of our content is subject to changes.
Having this info in forum threads isn't great either. They'll drop off and be necro'd regularly. The forums aren't particularly searchable, nor are they the first place people go for information.
It's worth noting that the Fate page will be updated in the next few months, and this has been really helpful in giving us a steer about what to include to make the fate-locked stories more attractive to people!
It seems like you guys are getting towards a solution. I'd like to see where the discussion goes over the weekend, and if we need to revise/restate our position on how much information is available about fate-locked content - and where it should go - then we will do so next week.
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Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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Jeremy Avalon
Posts: 345
5/29/2015
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I would also argue for limiting the "main" amount of information. We don't want to just hand out a step-by-step walkthrough right off the bat. It's all well and good to alert people that there ARE significant and lasting rewards, of course, but I think that "Which option should I take to get the specific reward I want?" is better answered in PMs. Perhaps something lighter? For instance:
A Trade In Souls — 25 Fate, Replayable
Delve into the secrets of London's lucrative and illegal soul trade!
Suggested for characters with Shadowy 20+.
[spoiler]This story will reward one of two exclusive weapons, which will each unlock a number of actions in other stories across London, and will grant either an exclusive opportunity card with an expensive but immensely effective source of menace reduction and certain Connections, or an exclusive storylet widely regarded as one of the best sources of cash in the game.[/spoiler]
Uncovering Secrets Framed in Gold — 19 Fate*; Once Only
A story of notable menace.
Available once you are a Scholar of the Correspondence. *Costs 22 Fate if you don't have Acquaintance: Repentant Forger 1+.
[spoiler]This story can potentially allow you to work towards accessing a Destiny exclusive to it.[/spoiler]
Inconvenienced by your Aunt (Finale) — 15 Fate; Once Only*
A marvelous business proposition, my dear…!
Available to characters who have reached “Inconvenienced by your Aunt” 7.
[spoiler]This story will unlock one of three unique opportunity cards, which can potentially refresh your actions, ???, or ???
*You can change the reward you've chosen for 15 Fate, but you don't replay the story.
(I don't know what the alternate rewards are)[/spoiler]
The Secrets of Beasts — 20 Fate; Permanent Content Unlock
The Formula for Empyrean Redolence! The deepest secrets of the Bishop’s plans! Monsters!
Available after reaching “Making Progress in the Labyrinth of Tigers” 14.
[spoiler]This content will allow access to up to four* exclusive companions and an exclusive transport (as part of the normal beast-breeding process), and allow you to become more deeply involved in the Bishop’s plans.
*Two of these require access to Flute Street, a separate Fate purchase.[/spoiler]
We could make a guide page on the Wiki for this sort of thing, if it doesn't end up being entirely pre-empted by the Fate tab redesign.
EDIT: ... only one spoiler tag per post? Oh well, I think I got my point across anyway.
edited by Jeremy Avalon on 5/29/2015
edited by Jeremy Avalon on 5/29/2015
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How we must glow; yes, I bet we look like snow.
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Koenig
Posts: 466
5/30/2015
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How many people from the forums help manage the Wiki? Could we get a redirect on various fate locked equipment and companions to the source that we original spend the Fate on? That way I at least know where to look if I have a goal set in mind.
edited by Koenig on 5/30/2015
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Koenig: Extraordinary. Invisible. Shattering. Legendary.
   
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RandomWalker
Posts: 948
5/30/2015
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I like what you have there, Jeremy Avalon, but one thing you're missing that Estelle did really well was the one-line content review. The Gift is an exceptional story, and the Rubbery Murders is not held in so high regard. If I were reading summaries of both in your style, I would be far more more tempted by the Rubbery Murders...
Oh, and you forgot to mention on the 'The Secrets of Beasts' that there is a potential fifth companion with the equal best BDR in the game (requires Flute Street).
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Fhoenix
Posts: 602
5/30/2015
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Estelle Knoht that's a fantastic guide.
I don't know what the best format is. What I do know is that your guide is amazingly useful. Nice work with the colors, and so much info packed on a single page.
Can you maybe clarify what the ultra powerful nadir card does? Because now I am curious.
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My Character
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Jeremy Avalon
Posts: 345
5/30/2015
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RandomWalker wrote:
The Gift is an exceptional story, and the Rubbery Murders is not held in so high regard. If I were reading summaries of both in your style, I would be far more more tempted by the Rubbery Murders...
Oh, and you forgot to mention on the 'The Secrets of Beasts' that there is a potential fifth companion with the equal best BDR in the game (requires Flute Street).
That's true. I guess I was doing these more in the style of the Fate tab blurbs -- you might note I cribbed rather a bit of the text from FBG's own descriptions. A consequence of habitually writing to promote, I'm afraid.
And no, I didn't forget, I was just very careful about my classifications. There's one pet with no Fate requirement (the Hound of Heaven), two pets and a Transport with just Husbandry (Ocelot, Dream-Hound, and Stallion), and two more pets (the Toadbeast and Owl) with Flute Street. Though I did leave out the BDR note, I suppose.
Estelle's spoilery guide is (naturally) much clearer on what you're getting.
In the end Estelle's is probably the more popular tack since it does include all the mechanical information up front, and that IS what started this whole discussion, and looking over it a few hours later I'm not sure what my writing has going for it other than a very strict interpretation of the spoiler policy.
edited by Jeremy Avalon on 5/30/2015
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How we must glow; yes, I bet we look like snow.
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RandomWalker
Posts: 948
5/30/2015
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Oops - good point with regards to pets - apologies.
I really think that the mechanical rewards are important to some players, and knowledge of them would encourage purchases. Other players want to play for stories, and so spoilers are far from welcome. I think that there is a real need for both approaches. A relatively spoiler-free summary of options such as the one you wrote for the Secrets of Beasts, but maybe with a short, spoiler-free review ('forum opinion is that Secrets of Beasts is a solid purchase, with both interesting lore and useful unique material rewards. Access to other Fate-locked content is required to fully explore content'*) and another in Estelle's format with more spoilers / detailed mechanical summary, such as:
[spoiler]
Secrets of Beasts offers one of the best methods to get SotC from 1 to 10, especially for those banished from court, and, players will eventually earn a companion with equal-highest BDR in the game (requires access to Flute Street). Like most other fate purchases, the EPA of this storyline is not better than free-to-play options.[/spoiler]
*Not sure what the forum consensus is for this story. Insert your own blurb here.
edited by RandomWalker on 5/30/2015
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