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The Parthanaeum or the Young Stags Club? Messages in this topic - RSS

BlakeTheDrake
BlakeTheDrake
Posts: 237

5/17/2015
With most of the other PoSI goods, you can accumulate them all and equip as necessary. With ships, there's a somewhat-clear progression, and some special priorities at play.

But for Clubs... two options, and picking one excludes the other (unless you quit the club, of course). The only difference between them, other than a single point of Persuasive or Shadowy, is that one has +4 Respectable, and the other has +2 Dreaded and +2 Bizarre.

Now, for gathering Notability, this hardly matters - one is as good as another. Which suggests that the choice is mainly one of taste. But there ARE other 'checks', I know this. I've heard of a high Respectable-check in one of the Ambitions, and I've noticed the option of making a Dreaded-check during burglaries.

So, I'm asking those who have seen more of the game, and better know which kind of checks are likely to appear... which is better? The Parthanaeum's +4 Respectable, or the Young Stags Club's +2/+2 to Bizarre and Dreaded?

(Oh, and I've got Ambition: Nemesis, if that matters.)

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RandomWalker
RandomWalker
Posts: 948

5/17/2015
Depends on what you value in terms of resources. The stags card has a luck check option: 90% chance of 1.8E worth of wine / 10% chance of +1 to both suspicion and scandal. You can ignore the other option on the card: it gives numerically worthwhile amounts of connected, but not in really desirable groups.

The other card is free from luck checks: 150 whispered secrets, or -2 suspicion.

Just decide what you value more.

As for a more feminine-friendly club, I'd be all for it, but it doesn't need to be cooking or handicrafts. How about a cat, bat, or rat show club, an urban exploration group / historical appreciation society, a charity to oppose the evils of prisoner's honey, a velocipede equivalent to a roller-derby, a spelunking group, or a debate club? Lots of options out there without falling back onto more boring tropes. Although it would be goos to have those options too, of course.
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Lady Eris
Lady Eris
Posts: 162

5/17/2015
I have found the Parthanaeum most congenial, despite being a lady. As - unlike those on the Surface - the ladies of the Neath are able not only to undertake university degrees but pursue academia to high levels, play cricket (I myself was a rather useful right arm pace bowler for the Benthic Ladies' First XI in my younger days), captain sailing vessels, and join the Velocipede Squad, I venture that we can hold our own in conversation with gentlemen. I cannot see something as stuffy as a gentlemen-only club lasting long in the Neath, to be sure. Positively antediluvian.

--
Lady Eris Psmith, Society darling, devoted wife. Dangerous when crossed. Accepts most social invitations. Distributor of Parabolan Kittens. Welcomes new acquaintances, especially those who write 'in character'.

William Templeton, Viscount Manningham, newcomer, gentleman, all-round good egg - accepting absolutely all invitations.
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bitterhorn
bitterhorn
Posts: 61

5/17/2015
Cats probably have their own clubs in FL already. We're just not invited.

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Marsh(-)mark(ed) thurifer, bookkeeper, &c. of Blackfen-on-Zee; Bazaarine aesthete, unnatural historian, thing-about-town.
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Estelle Knoht
Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751

5/17/2015
Down with the Gracious Widow, join our ~Elegant~ Old Cat Ladies Club with the Duchess at the helm! Must be old enough to be ineligible for Urchin-Gangs.




Anyway the Connection option on the Young Stag's card is terrible.

Young Stag: 50 CP of Society/Bohemian, -500 Rostygold, need to draw cards
Young Stag with cards: 4 actions, 50 CP Society + 50 CP Bohemian, -50 Rostygold
Shuttered Palace Grind: 4 actions, 66 CP Society + 44 CP Bohemian + 20 CP Duchess, no need to draw cards

To earn Rostygold efficiently, you also need the Basalt Gymnasium and the Gang of Hoodlums, then draw their cards to earn 150 Rostygold. You are drawing a lot of cards. Maybe Rat-Catchers can fare better but most don't.

Meanwhile, the Parthanaeum suspicion cure have its own niche as it is not affected by Criminal Record. 2 CP isn't much, but it is free.
edited by Estelle Knoht on 5/17/2015

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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
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RandomWalker
RandomWalker
Posts: 948

5/17/2015
In general bizarre and dreaded are harder to come by than respectable. There aren't a huge number of checks out there for either, and you can usually manage without. The big impact of choosing a club is the opportunity card you get from it.

The Parthenaeum has a suspicion reduction and a source for 150 whispered secrets. The Stags offers an action that gives wine, which ends up being more profitable on average, and an expensive way of getting connected society and bohemian.
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Owen Wulf
Owen Wulf
Posts: 715

5/17/2015
Rather odd that the devs never got around to setting up a more feminine clique for an option. I'm not saying that women shouldn't join the Parthenaeum or the Young Stags Club, but those two are clearly based on real-world gentlemen clubs and undergraduate senior secret societies such as the Skull and Bones (respectively). Boys will be boys...

That said, you would be wise to consider the Parthenaeum if you are trying to do the Light Fingers Ambition, as that requires a high Respectable score at one point.

But, if you are trying the Bag a Legend ambition then you will want to have a high Dreaded score (10?). That is, unless you are on good terms with the revolutionaries in which case you don't need a high dreaded score.

For pure profit and usefulness I would say the Parthenaeum trumps the Young Stag because its club card is all around better. Strictly speaking you really don't need a high score in either dreaded, respectable or bizarre to progress in any of the challenges - just having a large combined cumulative of the points is what's important in the long run.
---
edited by Owen Wulf on 5/17/2015

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BlakeTheDrake
BlakeTheDrake
Posts: 237

5/17/2015
Hmm... now THAT is an interesting analysis. -2 Suspicion isn't much right NOW, but once I get a few more levels of Shadowy, I won't be able to access the 'Confounding the Constables' option in The Spite anymore. (Needless to say, 'tis only with some very chatty help that I can do so still.)

It's decided, then - The Parthanaeum it is. Frankly, I was inclined towards them from a purely role-playing perspective in the first place. The Young Stags seem a touch... frivolous, wouldn't you say? *dismissive sniff*

Incidentally, I love the idea of a Cat Fanciers Club. I know several people who would eagerly join one of those, including a few gentlemen. From turn-of-the-century London to today's internet, there are many who enjoy the company of cats, yes? And when they can talk and provide you with secrets, so much the better...

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angelcat
angelcat
Posts: 26

5/17/2015
I run with the Young Stags. I find their larks to be entertaining, and they suit my character better than the stodgy old boys at the Parthenaeum

I would leave them in an instant for a similarly entertaining Ladies' Club though. Or a Society for Cat Fanciers, of course.

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Guest

5/26/2015
I'm siding with the Stags since it's harder to get Bizarre/Dreaded and a good continuous source of wine. However, I'd also go with the prior quotes if you have a specific ambition or challenge that syncs with a club. Remember that respectable is easiest to get overall in the BDR increase.

Speaking about Women's groups in the 19th Century

For both married and single women, charity and reform work will become popular, after the first half of the nineteen century when women were finding their "Angel in the House" role too confining and narrow. Women now sought to expand their moral influence outside the home. Public service by volunteering turned these women into an active force for change and improvement. In the past, women had done charity work through their religious affiliations, but now it was outside the churches. In England, women established the following clubs, schools, and societies to help those less fortunate like: "poor youth," "poor young women," "fallen women," "handicapped children and
adults," and "prisoners."
In Catholic countries new nursing and charity organizations were established in great numbers: Sisters of Mercy, Franciscan Sisters of the Poor, Sisters of St. Charles, and Daughters of Divine Providence, to name a few. In both Protestant and Catholic countries, women became missionaries,travelling to Asia, Africa and other places. Most of the charities aided other women and children.


Here are some specific examples of these women, who in many instances became famous for
their endeavors.
Henriette Schrader-Breymann, a German woman, became the founder of the Kindergarten movement, that will be exported to other countries, including America. A Frenchwoman founded the Creche society, a nursery for infants and preschool for children of working mothers, serving as the role model for thousands of future ones. Women invented new ways to raise money for their charities. This was the advent of the thrift shop, charity bazaar, fundraising dinner or dance, and collection and distribution drives of clothing and other useful items.
Hannah More, (1745-1833,) was instrumental in the establishment of Sunday schools in England to improve the religious education of the poor, which included teaching them to read. Major reforms were instituted for women prisoners with the work of Elizabeth Fry 1780-1845. Overly crowded conditions, no bedding, no adequate cloth or disposal systems, led Elizabeth to improve the lot of women at Newgate Prison in London. No only improving these harsh conditions, she set up a way for them to learn a trade while in prison. These prisoners were given part of the profits from the garments they made and sold upon their release. Fry founded the British Society of Ladies for
Promoting the Reformation of Female Prisoners, and her ideas spread abroad. So impressed were the
authorities, that Elizabeth Fry became the first woman called to testify before a British Parliamentary
Committee.
With the exception of Queen Victoria, Florence Nightingale was the most famous woman of her century. Legendary for her nursing work at the front lines during the Crimean War, she later made nursing the real profession it is today with a set of prerequisite qualifications and ethical standards. Before her reforms, hospitals were where only the poor went to, and then only leaving in a coffin.

Since the Reformation in England in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, and the advent of university-trained professional physicians who systemically ousted the midwives and other women from health care, nursing had a bad reputation. Depicted as drunks and fallen women, respectful women did not take up such work. In France, a different scenario was present. The Sisters of Charity was a distinct nursing order that served those hospitalized. Florence Nightingale, after returning to England from the war, spent half a century furthering the revamping of hospital care and the English nursing profession. Her family was not supportive of her efforts, and wanted Florence to take care of only her own family's needs. Hateful of this "lady bountiful" role, it nevertheless took many years for Florence to persevere in her endeavors. In her essay published in 1852 entitled Cassandra, she lamented society's obstacles to middle class women developing skills to support themselves. She also detailed her thoughts that she had to act as a man to achieve her life's ambitions. Florence was not alone in this idea. Exceptional women throughout history have tended to identify with like-minded men, rather than other women. Women did not support unusual or exceptional women, unless they
acted within traditional roles.
As the only daughter of an upper class Anglo-Irish family, Frances Power Cobbe, 1822-1904, worked to eliminate the constant problem of husbands beating their wives. In an 1878 article entitled "Wife-Torture in England," Frances documented the horrors working class wives especially were subjected to. Observing that wife-beating was exacerbated by alcohol, prostitution, and appalling living conditions, she clearly recognized that the fundamental cause of wife abuse was the conventional attitudes towards females. Beating one's wife or wives was acceptable and legal throughout recorded history until the late nineteenth and twentieth centuries in Europe and America. As a result of Cobbe's endeavors, Parliament amended the Matrimonial Causes Act, giving wives the opportunity to separate from their husbands for aggravated assault, the first law of its kind.
Catherine Booth, (1829-1890) co-founded with her husband William, the Salvation Army, the English organization that expanded world-wide, and is still going strong today. The Salvation Army was not only an organized and official church, but a refuge for the hungry and homeless. Catherine became a powerful public speaker and feminist after years of silence, and these characteristics were used to further the Christian doctrines of the church. Their formula of feeding the hungry and then preaching to them, ensured the Salvation Army's success. In a 1882 survey of London, on one weeknight there were almost 17,000 worshipping with the Salvation Army, compared to only 11,000 in the ordinary churches. Catherine along with other reforming women, led the charge against poor working conditions for women, especially those that made matches. Proving that most other European countries did not use the toxic yellow phosphorus, but harmless red phosphorus. Eventually William Booth would intone: "The best men in my army are the women."

Women's philanthropical work was harshly criticized by some middle class people during the nineteenth century. Mrs. Sarah Ellis, a major writer for women and the cult of domesticity, remarked that charity began at home and should stay there. The famous English writer Charles Dickens and the French writers Balzac and Flaubert depicted female hypocrites, women who did philanthropic work because it tended to put them in the right circles as well as an excuse for leaving the home. Scholars of women's history today criticize these last mentioned writers as wrong in their beliefs that these women were not sincere. They say charity work took real courage and devotion, and cannot be categorized as
either fashionable or frivolous.
Women were a powerful force to help others. Perhaps the best summation of women's charity work can be surmised by the obituary of Madame Emile Delesalle, printed in a nineteenth century Catholic paper in France:
"the poor were the object of her affectionate interest, especially the shameful poor, the fallen people. She sought them out and helped them with perfect discretion which doubled the value of her benevolent interest. To those whom she could approach without fear of bruising their dignity, she brought, along with alms to assure their existence, consolation of the most serious sort - she raised their courage and their hopes. To others each Sunday, she opened all the doors of her home, above all when her children were still young. In making them distribute these alms with her, she hoped to initiate them early into practices of charity."

edited by the truthseeker on 5/26/2015
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Lady Taimi Felix
Lady Taimi Felix
Posts: 202

5/28/2015
No babies? Of course there are babies! Urchins don't just tumble from the cavern roof like glimfall.
edited by Lady Taimi Felix on 5/28/2015

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MidnightVoyager
MidnightVoyager
Posts: 858

5/28/2015
MissCrumpet wrote:
Lady Taimi Felix wrote:
No babies? Of course there are babies! Urchins don't just tunble from the cavern roof like glimfall.


Are you sure? Urchins are very good at stealing and like heights, so perhaps they are born like glim! I've never seen a human baby in the Neath.

And wouldn't that lead to serious overpopulation problems eventually?


The game explicitly states that the souls of people "born below" are different. And I'm pretty sure there's a baby seen in the Eater of Chains story.

--
Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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Shadowcthuhlu
Shadowcthuhlu
Posts: 1557

8/6/2016
I chose the Parnthenueum solely on the fact it was described to have good port. I figured that would a be a deciding factor for a high quirk hedonist.
We have the exploration society in the Dilnum club, though a rival would be interesting. . .

--
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MissCrumpet
MissCrumpet
Posts: 113

5/28/2015
Kittenpox wrote:
I ended up choosing the Parthaneum. There are assorted ways to grind wine and reputation, but the Suspicion removal on an opportunity card was more valuable to me than the occasional quick buck.


I, too, once struggled with unwanted attention from the Constables and the like. Ever since I have discovered Nikolas & Sons Instant Ablution Absolution, I have been free of the suspicion that used to cling so persistently!

Levelling up your shadowy also helps considerably.

Reading about the women's societies is very interesting. Perhaps a society dedicated to beautifying the tomb colonists? It's a bit like nursing... I think that Fallen London allows women to be far less constricted than they were before the fall. Maybe it's because there are no babies?

Imagine the role playing opportunities...

--
Julia C, a creatively named lady. I am always looking to expand my circle of acquaintances and enjoy pleasant social interactions.
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MissCrumpet
MissCrumpet
Posts: 113

5/23/2015
Owen Wulf wrote:
Rather odd that the devs never got around to setting up a more feminine clique for an option. I'm not saying that women shouldn't join the Parthenaeum or the Young Stags Club, but those two are clearly based on real-world gentlemen clubs and undergraduate senior secret societies such as the Skull and Bones (respectively). Boys will be boys...


Agreed. The clubs simply seem less welcoming to the ladies and more male-centered.

It would be a bit anachronistic, but a club that's the equivalent of the Bloomsbury Group would be my choice. Or at least something with a political bent more suited for the bohemian or revolutionary types.

--
Julia C, a creatively named lady. I am always looking to expand my circle of acquaintances and enjoy pleasant social interactions.
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RandomWalker
RandomWalker
Posts: 948

5/18/2015
Different pets have different requirements, and the best pet, in terms of financial gain, is the grubby kitten, and she requires dreaded, not respectable.

The respectable is handy for the screaming map, but I'd say that the stags is more useful there - one half requires respectable, the other requires either dreaded or bizarre. Getting the respectable high enough to pass that test isn't too hard: God's editors, a decent suit, maybe a pet, or the consonant violin, and you're there. It's harder to scrape up a decent bizarre or dreaded score.
edited by RandomWalker on 5/18/2015
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BlakeTheDrake
BlakeTheDrake
Posts: 237

5/17/2015
...oh, I hate it when that happens. Two clearly well-informed and authoritative answers, and they're saying different things. >_> So, if the 'club card' is the main difference, which IS better? Does the Stags 'end up being more profitable on average', or does the Parthenaeum trump it by being all around better? :-S

Incidentally, I totally agree with Owen that it's strange there isn't a less testosterone-loaded option for clubs. Though, I don't know what it could BE, without breaking with the turn-of-the-century London aesthetics. 's not like women were allowed to wield much real influence in those days...

Maybe a knitting-club with a dark secret, sewing arcane symbols into their tea-cozies? :P Or a baking-and-cooking circle that also serves as a training-ground for a cadre of professional poisoners.
edited by BlakeTheDrake on 5/17/2015

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One of these days, I will remember to record interesting things in my journal...
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BlakeTheDrake
BlakeTheDrake
Posts: 237

5/23/2015
...I'll be perfectly honest and say that Gillsing's last comment applies to me too. However, USEFUL the Young Stags may be, well, they'd have to be SIGNIFICANTLY more handy for me to choose a bunch of immature, prank-pulling, underwear-stealing frat-boys over a club of proper, tasteful gentlemen. (Though, of course, it would still be nice if there were a few points between those two extremes... :p)

On the other hand, I'm... decidedly unimpressed with the list of 'Respectable' pets. 3 out of 4 retrieves Compromising Documents, which never seem to be in short supply - or is it just me? I seem to get a stack of those in every other Bundle - and while Society's endless supply of fine vintages CERTAINLY can come in handy, I just... eeeergh. A Racing-Slug. Of all the ridiculous trappings of the wealthy and idle, it just had to be that.

No, no... I will stick with my Mole. There's always a demand for Correspondence-Plates, and I'm sure I'll manage to get my Dreaded up to a reasonable level even without the aid of those motley fools at the Young Stags Club. I suppose the final accounting is that, even though I ask these questions... there's a limit to how much I'm willing to compromise my CHARACTER for the sake of direct benefit.
edited by BlakeTheDrake on 5/23/2015

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One of these days, I will remember to record interesting things in my journal...
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MissCrumpet
MissCrumpet
Posts: 113

5/28/2015
MidnightVoyager wrote:
MissCrumpet wrote:
Lady Taimi Felix wrote:
No babies? Of course there are babies! Urchins don't just tunble from the cavern roof like glimfall.


Are you sure? Urchins are very good at stealing and like heights, so perhaps they are born like glim! I've never seen a human baby in the Neath.

And wouldn't that lead to serious overpopulation problems eventually?


The game explicitly states that the souls of people &quotborn below&quot are different. And I'm pretty sure there's a baby seen in the Eater of Chains story.


I do not recall seeing that, but I'm curious to learn more.

I searched for baby on the wiki, and there seems to be some mention of a baby in the Light Fingers ambition, but the text is trimmed. upset

I am sorry for taking over the thread!

--
Julia C, a creatively named lady. I am always looking to expand my circle of acquaintances and enjoy pleasant social interactions.
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Quilster
Quilster
Posts: 25

8/6/2016
Oh, I'd join The Institute as a 'ladies' club! NotTheWI, but with tendencies toward politics, learning, and a trade in secrets. How about it, devs?

MissCrumpet wrote:
Owen Wulf wrote:
Rather odd that the devs never got around to setting up a more feminine clique for an option. I'm not saying that women shouldn't join the Parthenaeum or the Young Stags Club, but those two are clearly based on real-world gentlemen clubs and undergraduate senior secret societies such as the Skull and Bones (respectively). Boys will be boys...


Agreed. The clubs simply seem less welcoming to the ladies and more male-centered.

It would be a bit anachronistic, but a club that's the equivalent of the Bloomsbury Group would be my choice. Or at least something with a political bent more suited for the bohemian or revolutionary types.


--
fallenlondon.com/Profile/Quilster will reach me.
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Eglantine-Fox
Eglantine-Fox
Posts: 872

8/6/2016
The exceptional story focused on the Stags sealed my choice. I chose the Parthenaeum.

[spoiler]Something about ritual murder and cannibalism just harshes my buzz, man. I dunno, maybe I'm just weird that way.[/spoiler]

--
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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215

8/6/2016
Eglantine-Fox wrote:
The exceptional story focused on the Stags sealed my choice. I chose the Parthenaeum.

[spoiler]Something about ritual murder and cannibalism just harshes my buzz, man. I dunno, maybe I'm just weird that way.[/spoiler]

Are you kidding?! Those are the best parts!

--
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1789

8/6/2016
I chose the Parntheneum, as the Stags seemed too cruel for my tastes, even before the Exceptional Story. Their victims are often among the downtrodden.

However, I would love it if there were more clubs to choose from and if one could be a member of more clubs than one, as in real-life London, even if some were mutually exclusive. Obviously, you cannot be both a Stag and a Parthenian, but what if there were exploration societies, Orient-appreciation societies, friends of the fine Arts etcc? Each with their own stats and cards, of course, and many with their rivalries.

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Sara Hysaro
Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514

5/28/2015
The Masters stated in an interview that people who have died and came back to life can still have kids.

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MissCrumpet
MissCrumpet
Posts: 113

5/28/2015
Lady Taimi Felix wrote:
No babies? Of course there are babies! Urchins don't just tunble from the cavern roof like glimfall.


Are you sure? Urchins are very good at stealing and like heights, so perhaps they are born like glim! I've never seen a human baby in the Neath.

And wouldn't that lead to serious overpopulation problems eventually?

--
Julia C, a creatively named lady. I am always looking to expand my circle of acquaintances and enjoy pleasant social interactions.
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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215

8/6/2016
Jolanda Swan wrote:
I chose the Parntheneum, as the Stags seemed too cruel for my tastes, even before the Exceptional Story. Their victims are often among the downtrodden.

However, I would love it if there were more clubs to choose from and if one could be a member of more clubs than one, as in real-life London, even if some were mutually exclusive. Obviously, you cannot be both a Stag and a Parthenian, but what if there were exploration societies, Orient-appreciation societies, friends of the fine Arts etcc? Each with their own stats and cards, of course, and many with their rivalries.

I think its better for clubs to remain exclusive, like one's choice of destiny and ship. It helps distinguish one character from another and one club from another.

We already have an exploration society in the form of the Dilmun Club, whose members are planning a Northern and a Southern expedition. Failbetter just needs to give them more content. Similarly, there are four artistic movements for the player to choose from, but they don't have much content right now. There's also the Glass/Shroud conflict, which is likewise needs more content.

The artistic schools each having their own card would be interesting.

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lady ciel
lady ciel
Posts: 2548

5/18/2015
The Connected Pets page might help http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Connected_Pet

The Grubby Kitten gives an extra 20p worth of items but some of the other rewards are useful - depending on where you are in the game and what you need. Fortunately it is relatively easy to change pets as you just need to wait for your pet card to turn up and have the necessary connection to choose a new one.

--
ciel

Sorry RL means I am not a very active player at the moment. No social actions unless you are prepared to wait and definitely no sparring or other mult-action things.

No Calling Cards or boxed cats please. Will take dupes on the affluent photographers. Other social invitations welcome. Parabolan Kittens usually available, send me an in-game social action saying you want one and I will get one to you as soon as possible.

storynexus name - reveurciel
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dragonridingsorceress
dragonridingsorceress
Posts: 622

5/18/2015
I am fond of the Parthanaeum's Suspicion-lowering option.

I used to be fonder of it, before I hit the stat cap, but still.

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Rackenhammer
Rackenhammer
Posts: 354

5/18/2015
For character reasons, I'm part of the Young Stags. I don't find either opportunity card to be so big in its impact to trump considerations of character for club selections.

That said, it would probably be a good idea to match the BDR quality to your pet check (I have the Kitten, so Dreaded is valuable to me). Also, if you plan to make long-term use of the Portly Sommelier exchanges, an efficient source of wine is valuable.

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Gillsing
Gillsing
Posts: 1203

5/19/2015
Estelle Knoht wrote:
Meanwhile, the Parthanaeum suspicion cure have its own niche as it is not affected by Criminal Record. 2 CP isn't much, but it is free.
Yes, for those 'wretched recidivists', that is a very good point. But for the rest of us, Nikolas & Sons Instant Ablution Absolution provides roughly 3 CP reduction per Action when the cost of purchase has been accounted for. Which is better than 'free', as long as you'd be willing to suffer the Suspicion up to 4 before applying the bottle.

I went with the Young Stags, as I haven't found any other good source of wines, and Respectable is easy enough to get to 10 without the Parthenaeum, while Bizarre and Dreaded are not. And I haven't seen any options that require more than 10 for any of the BDR qualities.

But those underpants that the Young Stags are sporting as their symbol? Not very appealing.
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