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Lady Taimi Felix
Lady Taimi Felix
Posts: 202

3/31/2015
I may be the voice of dissent here, but I'm not sure why cards really need bookmarks at all. If there's something you want to achieve before using the action on the card, you can just keep the card in your hand. There are a few goals that might take a bit longer (getting the supplies for the Lapidary can take a bit when you're a new player), but I don't think that really justifies having a bookmark option on every card. Plus, I may be misunderstanding the way the game mechanics work behind the scenes but it seems like not having the cards bookmarkable would remove the issue of making items linkable from the plans page when the card isn't in hand.

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odessa
odessa
Posts: 36

3/31/2015
Lady Taimi Felix wrote:
I may be the voice of dissent here, but I'm not sure why cards really need bookmarks at all. If there's something you want to achieve before using the action on the card, you can just keep the card in your hand. There are a few goals that might take a bit longer (getting the supplies for the Lapidary can take a bit when you're a new player), but I don't think that really justifies having a bookmark option on every card. Plus, I may be misunderstanding the way the game mechanics work behind the scenes but it seems like not having the cards bookmarkable would remove the issue of making items linkable from the plans page when the card isn't in hand.


If you end up in a place of menace, among other locations, your hand is discarded. Being able to bookmark it and write notes (card frequency, or what you need to grind up to, for example) will remind yourself what you were doing when you were last in London proper.

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Owen Wulf
Owen Wulf
Posts: 715

3/31/2015
This feature is actually really useful in the ambitions when you go out to Zee. Do you want to remember the laundry list of items needed by the Sisterhood at their Fortress Nunnery? Click Plan. Want to remember what Dr. Vaughan wanted from you at her encampment without slogging through the wiki? Click Plan. Want to quickly check to see if you have everything you needed for the mentioned storylets? Go to the Plan Tab.

Very useful indeed. When it comes to cards there are always a few with sketchy requirements that the Plan Tab can help you keep track of.

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odessa
odessa
Posts: 36

3/31/2015
Owen Wulf wrote:
This feature is actually really useful in the ambitions when you go out to Zee. Do you want to remember the laundry list of items needed by the Sisterhood at their Fortress Nunnery? Click Plan. Want to remember what Dr. Vaughan wanted from you at her encampment without slogging through the wiki? Click Plan. Want to quickly check to see if you have everything you needed for the mentioned storylets? Go to the Plan Tab.

Very useful indeed. When it comes to cards there are always a few with sketchy requirements that the Plan Tab can help you keep track of.

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This, precisely. I find the navigation of the new wiki to be rather cumbersome, and the old wikidot to be, well, out-of-date. So I find it nice. From a behind the scenes, mechanics perspective I do wonder what the best way to lock people out of opp card teleportation would be...

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Lady Taimi Felix
Lady Taimi Felix
Posts: 202

4/1/2015
Owen Wulf wrote:
This feature is actually really useful in the ambitions when you go out to Zee. Do you want to remember the laundry list of items needed by the Sisterhood at their Fortress Nunnery? Click Plan. Want to remember what Dr. Vaughan wanted from you at her encampment without slogging through the wiki? Click Plan. Want to quickly check to see if you have everything you needed for the mentioned storylets? Go to the Plan Tab. ----


To be clear, I'm not questioning the use of the Plans feature at all, I'm specifically taking about the use of bookmarks on cards vs storylets. All the examples you gave are storylets.


Odessa makes a point about cards being discarded which I hadn't considered, but it's been a really long time since I tumbled into a menace by accident.

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Estelle Knoht
Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751

4/1/2015
1.I wonder if there should be a in-game tutorial delivered by the neighbors or somebody else when it's implemented for everyone.

2.Plans for Fate-locked branch should be marked with their Fate costs.

3.Following the above, showing the total Fate required for your plans could be useful. "You will need a total of 123 Fate for some of your plans!" or something like that. Someone could probably put that in a better words.

4.What happens if a storylet is changed / branches retired when I have plans for it? Seasonal content do change quite a bit, and so are the lodging purchase and so on. There should be a way to notify players that this branch is *changed*.
edited by Estelle Knoht on 4/1/2015

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Sara Hysaro
Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514

4/1/2015
Lady Taimi Felix wrote:
Owen Wulf wrote:
This feature is actually really useful in the ambitions when you go out to Zee. Do you want to remember the laundry list of items needed by the Sisterhood at their Fortress Nunnery? Click Plan. Want to remember what Dr. Vaughan wanted from you at her encampment without slogging through the wiki? Click Plan. Want to quickly check to see if you have everything you needed for the mentioned storylets? Go to the Plan Tab. ----


To be clear, I'm not questioning the use of the Plans feature at all, I'm specifically taking about the use of bookmarks on cards vs storylets. All the examples you gave are storylets.


Odessa makes a point about cards being discarded which I hadn't considered, but it's been a really long time since I tumbled into a menace by accident.


It could be useful for conflict cards. You can alternate between the two factions for a net increase in both, and Plans would allow you to mark the option you wish to pick next time the card turns up. It can also serve as a reminder to pick a different option on a card that you usually use for a different purpose, like getting Scheme instead of scraps. Memory can usually be relied on for this sort of thing, but I'm sure we've all had moments where we go, "Aw, shoot, I wanted to pick that other option" every now and then.

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genesis
genesis
Posts: 920

4/1/2015
Excellent point about conflict cards. That's *exactly* how I'd want to use it

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NiteBrite
NiteBrite
Posts: 1014

4/1/2015
I like the look of the plans ribbons, and you can do quite a bit with color coding so that's cool. It's a shame that you can't cancel a plan/toggle it on and off by clicking the ribbon again. I've misclicked a few ribbons already, and its a bit intrusive to have to leave the story and cancel such minor errors in another tab.

The pop ups have a tendency to get me a 404 message if I click into something while the pop up is still loading. The timing of it is a bit tricky, but it happens.

I was really hoping there would be an option to plan not to do something. That is, to toggle on an optional player set lock, minesweeper style, to prevent misclicks. Like, there are a number of storylet options I don't want to ever click (unless a good reason comes along in the future). For example, if I could use these plan ribbons to set a lock on "Sell your plant" so that I physically couldn't misclick it ever, that would do wonders for my peace of mind.

There's a lot of stories out there that are just like minesweeper mines. There are probably a lot more stories out there that I would like to be reminded/protected from ever misclicking than stories I'd want to look up the requirements for in a plan. I am having terror flashbacks now to the early days of knife and candle and how it was invite only and the "retire from K&C" button was literally next to the "invite new players" button. I lost so many sky knives. So so many T_T


I'd really also like it if the plans were organizable or even searchable. Like, what if the notes you can write on the plans tab storylets worked in a similar fashion to how tags work in tumblr? I/the player could add any written categories, and organize them with a search feature- it'd be fantastic.

These are just some ideas, but the basic issue for me is that the plans tab seems a bit chaotic in its ordering of planned items. It doesn't appear to be alphabetical or chronological and I can see that falling apart into chaos as my plans list slowly grows into the 1000's of plans (I am a bit of schemer it must be said).

As it is right now, I am using the plans more as a color coding to make good options more readily and visually apparent. The little green ribbon is a sure sign to blindly click this right now its totally fine, whoosh zooom. I'm not getting that much use out of the tab itself. I just like the ability to toggle a color marker/flag on a story as YES, NO, (and maybe one day as LOCK/Don't Click). It's a very minesweeper marker system sort of mentality for me.
edited by NiteBrite on 4/1/2015

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Sara Hysaro
Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514

4/1/2015
There's a cap of 20 plans in each section. You can only have 20 active plans going at once, and when you complete more than 20 one of them drops out from the list. The first thing I did when testing this was to start "planning" a bunch of stuff to see how much I could stretch the page, and when I realized there was a Plan cap I checked to see if the Completed section was similarly capped. I neglected to check if the ribbon color persisted, though.
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edited by Sara Hysaro on 4/1/2015

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NiteBrite
NiteBrite
Posts: 1014

4/1/2015
Lucky for you Sara, I did test that and the ribbon color does persist. The plan stays completed even if you can't see it on your plan tab. It's like having more than 60 pending social actions. They still exist even if you can't see or access them in any meaningful way. The only way to clear a ribbon of a plan you completed more than 20 plans ago is to delete all other completed plans in your list until it's no longer in the overflow.

Basically if you have more than 20 things you do regularly and want to have bookmarked, you are going to have to know that you need to delete all your other plans (blah) and then invest the time to actually do that to find it (double blah). Imagine doing hundreds of plans, but then wanting to reset one you did ages ago. You couldn't, not without spending time deleting pretty much everything else you've done after it until it shows up on the tab again.

This is why I suggest being able to toggle a plan off from the actual ribbon would be useful. The ribbon menus don't have the same 20 display limitation.

As it is now, plans in a the overflow are plans forever. I hope all the random things you added to test this are things you want to track with ribbon color forever, and not just a 'flavor' of the week wink
edited by NiteBrite on 4/1/2015
edited by NiteBrite on 4/1/2015

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dragonridingsorceress
dragonridingsorceress
Posts: 622

4/1/2015
NiteBrite wrote:
Lucky for you Sara, I did test that and the ribbon color does persist. The plan stays completed even if you can't see it on your plan tab. It's like having more than 60 pending social actions. They still exist even if you can't see or access them in any meaningful way. The only way to clear a ribbon of a plan you completed more than 20 plans ago is to delete all other completed plans in your list until it's no longer in the overflow.

Not quite true. You can refresh them by clicking on the green completed bookmark/flag, and make them active. This seems to move them to the top of your Active list.
edited by dragonridingsorceress on 4/1/2015

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NiteBrite
NiteBrite
Posts: 1014

4/1/2015
Ah excellent. That would explain why some of my plans moved out of order. I was baffled but now it makes a lot more sense. Thanks DragonRidingSorceress.

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odessa
odessa
Posts: 36

4/1/2015
NiteBrite wrote:
I like the look of the plans ribbons, and you can do quite a bit with color coding so that's cool. It's a shame that you can't cancel a plan/toggle it on and off by clicking the ribbon again. I've misclicked a few ribbons already, and its a bit intrusive to have to leave the story and cancel such minor errors in another tab.

The pop ups have a tendency to get me a 404 message if I click into something while the pop up is still loading. The timing of it is a bit tricky, but it happens.

I was really hoping there would be an option to plan not to do something. That is, to toggle on an optional player set lock, minesweeper style, to prevent misclicks. Like, there are a number of storylet options I don't want to ever click (unless a good reason comes along in the future). For example, if I could use these plan ribbons to set a lock on "Sell your plant" so that I physically couldn't misclick it ever, that would do wonders for my peace of mind.

There's a lot of stories out there that are just like minesweeper mines. There are probably a lot more stories out there that I would like to be reminded/protected from ever misclicking than stories I'd want to look up the requirements for in a plan. I am having terror flashbacks now to the early days of knife and candle and how it was invite only and the "retire from K&C" button was literally next to the "invite new players" button. I lost so many sky knives. So so many T_T


I'd really also like it if the plans were organizable or even searchable. Like, what if the notes you can write on the plans tab storylets worked in a similar fashion to how tags work in tumblr? I/the player could add any written categories, and organize them with a search feature- it'd be fantastic.

These are just some ideas, but the basic issue for me is that the plans tab seems a bit chaotic in its ordering of planned items. It doesn't appear to be alphabetical or chronological and I can see that falling apart into chaos as my plans list slowly grows into the 1000's of plans (I am a bit of schemer it must be said).

As it is right now, I am using the plans more as a color coding to make good options more readily and visually apparent. The little green ribbon is a sure sign to blindly click this right now its totally fine, whoosh zooom. I'm not getting that much use out of the tab itself. I just like the ability to toggle a color marker/flag on a story as YES, NO, (and maybe one day as LOCK/Don't Click). It's a very minesweeper marker system sort of mentality for me.
edited by NiteBrite on 4/1/2015


I definitely second this. I almost accidentally sold the Gold Painting a number of times, and even ended up losing my Taste of the Garden on an opp card click, and would love for something like what NiteBrite says above.
edited by odessa on 4/1/2015

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Sara Hysaro
Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514

4/1/2015
NiteBrite wrote:
Lucky for you Sara, I did test that and the ribbon color does persist. The plan stays completed even if you can't see it on your plan tab. It's like having more than 60 pending social actions. They still exist even if you can't see or access them in any meaningful way. The only way to clear a ribbon of a plan you completed more than 20 plans ago is to delete all other completed plans in your list until it's no longer in the overflow.

As it is now, plans in a the overflow are plans forever. I hope all the random things you added to test this are things you want to track with ribbon color forever, and not just a 'flavor' of the week wink


Ah, so it's just a display cap. smile I cleared out my Completed list of all the random stuff after checking to see if there was a cap, so that's why I couldn't just go test it out personally right then and there. In that case I'll go finish marking off the Affair of the Box storylets since I don't have to worry about them getting accidentally deleted.

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real_waffle
real_waffle
Posts: 16

4/1/2015
If possible, I'd love to help test this. Username is waffle, as is my in game name. Both of them are just Waffle.
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odessa
odessa
Posts: 36

4/1/2015
I totally forgot to check this out while I had the opp card in my hand, so I'm going to throw it out to the thread for the sake of scientific research:

What happens when you bookmark an Impossible Plan, such as on the Seekers of the Garden card?

Edit: Forgot about the Impossible! option on Correspondence Plaques. For those curious, it's exactly the same as any other plan. I don't know what I was expecting, hah!
edited by odessa on 4/1/2015

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genesis
genesis
Posts: 920

4/1/2015
As it happens, "Ask about a certain passage of St Matthew, and its revisions" has just come up so I added it. Nothing special so far...

I suppose this is yet another argument to have some sort of grouping/organising tool. You want to remember these Impossible! tasks for the eventual occasion when they might be not Impossible! but at the same time you don't want them cluttering your "current" plans, as it were
edited by genesis on 4/1/2015

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odessa
odessa
Posts: 36

4/2/2015
After hopping into the Mahogany Mirror to check out Plans in places of menace, I have to add to the resounding chorus of distinguishing plans by location, because I can foresee myself possibly Planning something in a menace state (Things related to Cat and Mouse, Ambition-related things) and then forgetting where the heck in London that Plan is supposed to unfurl. It would be nice to see “This Plan takes place outside of London” or something of the sort for Zee/menace-related stories. Also, I’m sure this has been said before but it would be nice to see any potential level checks one might need to succeed in a Plan, or if a Plan is a luck-based check.

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dragonridingsorceress
dragonridingsorceress
Posts: 622

4/2/2015
"You've succeeded in a plan!" is misleading, as mentioned before. Especially when my note says something like "Get a rubbery hound", and the Plan I succeeded at was traveling to Flute Street - my Hound is not quite got yet.

genesis wrote:
I suppose this is yet another argument to have some sort of grouping/organising tool. You want to remember these Impossible! tasks for the eventual occasion when they might be not Impossible! but at the same time you don't want them cluttering your "current" plans, as it were

Perhaps Current Plans should be split into 2 sections? One for 'You have the requirements' and one for 'You are seeking these requirements' (probably with better names), to show what you can do RIGHT NOW/When your candle refreshes, and what you want to do but don't have the requirements to be able to do yet.

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One who seeks to know all that is and may be. One who dances in the silence of the void. One whose fantasies make the reality come alive.
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