quartz
Posts: 29
1/23/2012
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to where can we send feedback on storylets redesign?
it was easier when I could see "unlocked with (level)" without having to mouse over the icons so I could know if it's going to be "almost impossible" or "straightforward" -- it's hard to remember the levels for me even after playing the same card 10 times
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
1/23/2012
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I will say it looks a great deal more modern. The tea stained icons have been replaced by pure white buttons readable text(the crux of the game) has been replaced by different buttons. The heavy borders also give a more modern envelope look.
The redesign may be more streamlined but it makes me feel less like I'm in Victorian London and more like I'm playing a video game.
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The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
1/23/2012
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I'm still not entirely sure why the redesign was nessecary.
Is it a Chrome thing. Was the color on the difficulty too hard to make out on Chrome?
I found the earlier version much easier to read on Firefox. This new one seems to put more barriers between the information and myself, not less.
Graphically I feel it looks more like a place holder than a finished design; as if these bright white blocks are something you'd but in pre-beta before you had a graphic designer look at them and change up the aesthetic.
More text can fit on the screen, and I guess that's nice but it's honestly not something I noticed or considered a detriment to play.
Of all the complaints I've heard about EB from new players, old players and non-players, the design was the least ojectionable. A good deal of folks I know who don't play EB actually liked the old design. Were there internal numbers suggesting the design of the game was turning people off from playing or was a barrier to new players?
If so then I'll yield to consensus if it gets more people playing EB, but if this was just a change for the sake of change, to demonstrate that the game is moving forward, then I fail to see why the manpower was put into this. It wasn't really broken so I fail to see why it was fixed.
edited by Nigel Overstreet on 1/23/2012
edited by Nigel Overstreet on 1/23/2012
--
The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 787
1/23/2012
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I liked the old style better. I miss the big red GO! button already...
--
Rupho Schartenhauer has killed a Master, well: most of it.
Cortez the Killer has killed a Master, definitely.
Deepdelver has become the progenitor of London's brightest star. It's... complicated.
Dr. Kvirkvelia, gone NORTH on 23/12/1894.
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Urthdigger
Posts: 939
1/23/2012
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I also preferred the old design. It was actually EASIER to tell what I needed for a storylet then (Or, rather, get a feel for the difficulty from the qualities needed to unlock it). Also, with the white background now it's actually difficult to read the "Modest" quality, whereas before I had no problem reading anything.
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Looking for second chances to maximize your loot output from those troublesome storylets? Check out our handy gang of volunteers in this thread, or even volunteer yourself!
@Urthdigger on twitter
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travellersside
Posts: 288
1/23/2012
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I'll agree with the 'too modern' look (this is a Victorian era setting. 'Modern' is not a compliment) and the breaking of immersion. With how tiny the icons are, and how some storylets unlock with a number of them, that's a lot of mousing over that you have to do. Anyone with difficulty in using a touchpad with precision on, say, a laptop, is going to find it very difficult to read now. How thoroughly was player usability considered when planning this redesign?
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Patrick Reding
Posts: 440
1/23/2012
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Now that I think of, the same can be said of Connected: Benthic and Connected: Summerset. The Provost is an obvious choice to represent Summerset, but I don't remember if Benthic's Principal has her own icon.
EDIT: She does. Convenient!
edited by Patrick Reding on 1/24/2012
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http://echobazaar.failbettergames.com/Profile/Yana
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
1/24/2012
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Hi all
We don't officially support mobile devices (mobile users are still a very small minority for us) but we do tweak things where we can to make life easier. The lack of onclick/onhover support was a glitch when we went live - it should be better now. Try it and see.
Do let us know your feedback on http://feedback.echobazaar.failbettergames.com - there are already threads there. And as Paul says, specifics are essential! 'I can't read this bit of text on this background in these colours', for instance, is something we can fix without starting over.
cheers!
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Lady Red
Posts: 517
1/23/2012
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It's now a lot trickier to spot which storylets are locked, and the level of difficulty of each one - in fact, it's impossible to find out without mousing over. I think I'm going to find that VERY irritating.
Otherwise, I don't mind the redesign - it's quite clean and easy to read.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Lady~Red
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Guest
1/23/2012
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I agree with the "being too modern" objection. OK for the restyling, but making it more in line with the atmosphere of Fallen London would be more appreciated.
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Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2518
1/24/2012
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I liked the old design better myself, but I think the redesign is clearer and easier to read, and that may well help some people enjoy Echo Bazaar better.
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Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355
Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
1/25/2012
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About storylet ordering and clutter. Some of this has gradually accreted over the last couple of years, and under some circumstances some players will get more of a screenful than we realise! Do please post specifics about this at http://feedback.echobazaar.failbettergames.com ('I'm Dangerous 80, halfway through the Violaceous Knapper storyline in the Rendering Yards, and OMG I have 40 storylets, here's a screenshot') and we may sometimes be able to rationalise it.... especially with some other upcoming changes.
edited by Alexis Kennedy on 1/25/2012
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
1/25/2012
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From Echo Bazaar Player @Kaaynia:
"Those who are not happy with the change might consider looking at this: http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/124045
It is a user script to make storylet prerequisites appear in plain text so that you don't have to mouse over the icons to see them. That was my main complaint about the new interface, so using the script is a great change for me. It does not, however, change the "modern" looking theme."
I use the script and absolutely love it. If you would like to see the pre-reqs in plain text on the storylet, this script is for you!
I do not know how it works on mobile devices, so if you have one please let me know if it works better for you.
(This script is user generated content and @Kaaynia is the sole creator of it. Failbetter Games is not responsible for, nor does it provide support for, this script. The script may interfere with future updates.)
edited by Nigel Overstreet on 1/25/2012
edited by Nigel Overstreet on 1/25/2012
--
The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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streetfelineblue
Posts: 1459
1/24/2012
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Well, I'm amazing myself as usually I'm quite conservative as to graphic layouts, but I actually like the new format, though I don't know how comfortable it can be for people with touchpads. It's clear, and I like having slightly smaller storylets to be able to visulalize more. The only thing - as many have remarked - it could really use some artificial "aging", as it does look too modern. Maybe it would be possible to implement the old colors and shading with the new layout?
--
Twitter: @streetfelineblu
Blue's LiveJournal
Blue's Echo Bazaar profile
Blue's Night Circus diary
Link to Ocelot's Enigma Ambition hint page; PM for clarification. No direct solutions provided.
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kwogger
Posts: 26
1/24/2012
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Aesthetically speaking, I've got no major complaints either way. However, from a usability perspective, the new change had made things much much harder for me, almost unplayable in fact, for one reason - the need to mouse-over for critical information. I access the bazaar primarily from my phone, and while it's not the most pleasant user experience, I could still interact with everything and obtain critical information such as what I'm missing for a particular storylet without any issue. However, now it's become an impossibility.
So, unless there's going to be a mobile web version of the Bazaar coming soon (and I mean really really soon, it's pretty much unplayable right now if I didn't already memorize most of the requirements of the storylets I'm going through, which means I'm screwed when new content arrives), I humbly request that an "on-click" action be added to trigger the information currently displayed from the mouse-over so I can obtain the information when necessary.
A better solution in my opinion would be the use of icons right now, but also display the count needed of items/levels beside the icon. More detailed information can be obtains from a mouse-over/on-click action on the item icon.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/kwogger
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travellersside
Posts: 288
1/24/2012
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My idea of a better solution would be to cut losses and just put it back to the way that it was before. It worked just fine then, and the new design concepts are causing far worse problems than they're solving. I've been hearing people elsewhere also comment that this is alienating quite a large chunk of the playerbase. This is a light, social game, which means that a lot of players dip in when they have spare time during the day, and this is usually going to be on their phones.
I know that it's unlikely that it'll be put back, since work has been done to change it, but read up on the Sunk Cost Dilemma
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streetfelineblue
Posts: 1459
1/24/2012
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It is worsened by the contrast between the clean, modern storylet buttons and the more refined Opportunity Cards ones (the "discard" ones) and the "Travel" one.
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Twitter: @streetfelineblu
Blue's LiveJournal
Blue's Echo Bazaar profile
Blue's Night Circus diary
Link to Ocelot's Enigma Ambition hint page; PM for clarification. No direct solutions provided.
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MisterArendt
Administrator
Posts: 37
1/24/2012
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Hi everyone, Paul here. Thanks very much for the feedback! We don't often make interface changes, so we're keen to hear how you're all getting on. Specific and constructive responses, positive or negative, are always useful. Please don't expect any changes immediately though, we want to let the interface bed in for a while before we make any tweaks.
edited by MisterArendt on 1/24/2012
edited by MisterArendt on 1/24/2012
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http://misterarendt.deviantart.com/
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
1/24/2012
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Generally, I like the new look. It does look a little stark and modern, a little white and right-angles - a little softening there couldn't hurt. I like the new icons for storylet requirements, though I could see how they might be a big problem for touchscreen mobile use. The only issue I can personally comment on is that I'd like to see some return or variation of the "this requires X of Y - you have Z of Y" dialogue for using items and qualities.
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Maurna Frost
Posts: 246
1/23/2012
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Er, I'm afraid I don't actually see some of the complaints others have as far as reading the storylets or opportunity cards go. I will say that it does look a touch too modern. Perhaps somehow softening the edges of the little squares of information?
I much prefer the change away from the gradients, they were certainly distracting and difficult to read (at least on Chrome).
It took me some hunting to find a story who's requirements I didn't meet, the grayed out icon is a nice touch.
Overall, thanks much!
~MF
A Lady far from the top
--
~MF
I greatly enjoy meeting delicious new friends and participating in deliciously exciting new adventures! Please feel free to drop a card to meet for dinner, exchange favors, give an interview, or any other activity that comes to mind. I DO particpate in exchanges requiring Fate, BUT you must contact me first; twitter, facebook, or here on the forums via PM.
Note: I am currently exchanging parcels with a large number of dear friends and my parcel opportunities are rare. I am always willing to exchange but your rate of return may be rather slow. To find others to exchange with I recommend the Starveling list.
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Abraham Bounty
Posts: 251
1/23/2012
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Maurna Frost wrote:
Er, I'm afraid I don't actually see some of the complaints others have as far as reading the storylets or opportunity cards go. I will say that it does look a touch too modern. Perhaps somehow softening the edges of the little squares of information?
I much prefer the change away from the gradients, they were certainly distracting and difficult to read (at least on Chrome).
It took me some hunting to find a story who's requirements I didn't meet, the grayed out icon is a nice touch.
Overall, thanks much!
~MF
A Lady far from the top
I find myself quite in agreement (save that it was quite easy for me to find a storylet I did not have the requirements for). While I would like a more appropriate aesthetic, readability trumps that concern. Though it was mentioned elsewhere that the moderate difficulty level was quite difficulty to read, and after finessing my equipment to actually see it, I am in agreement with them as well.
--
News in the Neath: Noted citizen of Fallen London, Abraham Bounty, has acquired six hundred and sixty six souls. Additionally rumour has it that the lion's share of those souls was from a theft of The Brass Embasy itself. We are quite certain that this portents nothing ominous for him. Well, nothing unusually ominous anyway.
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Felicity Chase
Posts: 62
1/23/2012
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Agreeing with the "too modern" crowd. It reminds me a lot of the recent Gmail change, actually. Sorry, FBG :/
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@FelicityChase
Currently accepting: Almost all social actions. But please don't send me invitations to private dinners. And Nightmares may take a very long time to accept, unless you're willing to take some of mine in return.
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Jack Vaux-Harrowden
Posts: 245
1/23/2012
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I use Chrome, and I have to say I preferred the old look. I dislike needing to mouse over the icons to see the unlocks, I find it less visually appealing, and I really miss storylets being differently-colored; it made it much easier to locate, say, Larks With Chuffy when it was in gold.
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Endy
Posts: 278
1/23/2012
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I like the added info but dislike the color scheme.
As far as the level difficulty goes, I think it's based on a parabolic equation. It starts off impossible, gets easier, then tapers off at straightforward.
edited by Endy on 1/23/2012
--
sonantem aeternum ad terram
Through the darker shadows.
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Kaanyia
Posts: 35
1/23/2012
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Unfortunately I must admit I don't like this change. We used to be able to see the prerequisites for a storylet listed plainly and clearly, and the prerequisites of every storylet visible on the page could be viewed at once. Now we can only see one prerequisite at a time and have to mouse over the icon to do it.
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@Kaanyia on Twitter.
Display Fallen London storylet requirements in text without mousing over icons: https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/11306-echo-bazaar-display-storylet-prerequisites
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Patrick Reding
Posts: 440
1/23/2012
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Aligning the Go button on the top of the box looks a bit crap, but on the whole I'm enjoying the change. Of course, this just makes it more imperative to make Connected: Society and Connected: the Duchess use different icons, to avoid confusion at the Palace. Mr. Huffman would make a much better Society representative anyway.
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http://echobazaar.failbettergames.com/Profile/Yana
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