SporksAreGoodForYou
Posts: 291
2/19/2015
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Rupho! No offense taken. At all. If anything, I should be apologising for my forthright opinions here. This community is one of the most polite I've ever been part of. So sorry if my posts are upsetting anyone at all. I love a good discussion!
And I'd agree with you about exploring. I loved the speed the first few times I circumnavigated the zee. But when I've been around it 20 times, and I'm genuinely doing nothing more than collecting trinkets so I can read the incredible writing, I'm frustrated.
I had a thought though. Enable it in a mode called "casual" or "easy". Your average impatient gamer will then have to balance dealing with calling themselves casual for the benefit 
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Eldan
Posts: 18
2/19/2015
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Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
SporksAreGoodForYou wrote:
I guess the point is, I'm at a stage with my captain where I have too many echoes (no, I didn't exploit the sunlight boxes, all just legit methods, e.g. lots of tomb colonist runs), a full complement of weapons (mt nomad dies quickly and and at no risk to me), but still have a few stories to wrap up. And these stories seem to send me all over the map. Which is great, except it isn't. Doing the brisk campaigner, for example, she wanted stone's attention. I went to Whither, from Mangrove college (which is in the very southeast for me), only to find I needed a watchful curio, so it's literally to the other side of the map to irem to get one of those, and then back all the way to whither. and then off to find mushroom wine, in London. That took, like, 25 minutes of just sailing directly from port to port. Which isn't fun.
No offense meant, Sporks, but what you describe as not being fun is exactly what I like best.
I'm at the same stage you described with my current captain: cash is no longer a worry, all enemies can be bested. So now I finally have time to play all the Officers' storylines and myriad other small storylets. If that sends me three times around the world, well, great! That's rather the point of the game, isn't it? London's the most boring place on the map, the less reason I have to return there all the time the better!
Again, I understand that not everybody's playing the game the same way. And if they give you a speed-up button, good for you - but I wouldn't ever use it!
I like the point where I am in the story a lot, yes. Time to complete all the stories without worrying too much. Though I find myself far too often at a point where I think "right, time to point the ship north-north-west at full speed and go to the toilet". Or read a few pages in a book, while the ship is travelling.
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Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 787
2/19/2015
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Eldan wrote:
I like the point where I am in the story a lot, yes. Time to complete all the stories without worrying too much. Though I find myself far too often at a point where I think "right, time to point the ship north-north-west at full speed and go to the toilet". Or read a few pages in a book, while the ship is travelling.
I don't find travel THAT slow... not even with the stuttering frame-rate bug! Maybe a performance issue with your PC?
...and even when nothing happens, I (so far) never get tired of looking at this wonderful map. I could easily spend a half hour cruising through the Sea of Lilies alone... when I've got enough Fuel & Supplies I don't need a destination, just beeing at Zee is enough
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Rupho Schartenhauer has killed a Master, well: most of it.
Cortez the Killer has killed a Master, definitely.
Deepdelver has become the progenitor of London's brightest star. It's... complicated.
Dr. Kvirkvelia, gone NORTH on 23/12/1894.
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Eldan
Posts: 18
2/19/2015
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e newewerRupho Schartenhauer wrote:
Eldan wrote:
I like the point where I am in the story a lot, yes. Time to complete all the stories without worrying too much. Though I find myself far too often at a point where I think "right, time to point the ship north-north-west at full speed and go to the toilet". Or read a few pages in a book, while the ship is travelling.
I don't find travel THAT slow... not even with the stuttering frame-rate bug! Maybe a performance issue with your PC?
...and even when nothing happens, I (so far) never get tired of looking at this wonderful map. I could easily spend a half hour cruising through the Sea of Lilies alone... when I've got enough Fuel & Supplies I don't need a destination, just beeing at Zee is enough
No, performance is fine. It's probably just that I've been playing on and off since the game first came to steam. I'd quite like to see some of the endgame content and the newer additions, the inbetween is just getting old. Driving from one end of the map to the other takes enough to read a handful of pages.
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ElectricPaladin
Posts: 43
2/20/2015
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I think the OP has a point. I wouldn't want to make zea travel easier, but making it shorter would be a good move.
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A dangerous and persuasive gentleman recently returned to the 'Neath, eager to respond to any and all invitations. You can find me at my lodgings
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Guest
2/20/2015
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Really wish they would have a look at escape velocity nova (free to try, last remnants of the shareware age). It deals with almost the same game play elements in the overhead world. And while SS is capable of a lot more under the hood. There are mechanics it could make use of. Caps lock x2 time increase. Choose closest target key. Communicating with AI ships to pay off, or acquire new contracts or help if they are stranded.
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username
Posts: 10
2/20/2015
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FreedomFighter wrote:
I wouldn't mind if exploring at zee is interesting. The main problem is, it is damn boring and nothing happen. . .
So, it's a lot like actually being at sea, then?
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SlashDotBeckett
Posts: 1
2/23/2015
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If it's boring, I Alt-Tab to a book ...
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/SlashDotBeckett
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the_bee
Posts: 6
2/25/2015
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SlashDotBeckett wrote:
If it's boring, I Alt-Tab to a book ...
Exactly. This is not good design if a player has to do that.
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MisterGone
Posts: 139
2/26/2015
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Mica wrote:
If we have the option to use manual saving, why not a speed up button too? Not something everyone would be forced to use, and I certainly wont ever touch it. Would be also be helpful if the game specifically tells new players to avoid it to experience the intended style of the game.
But we'll probably get people complaining about "fast to finish" next considering the map isn't really that big if you cut the travel times.
THIS
If there is to be a speed-up button, you should have to go into merciful mode to get it. The cost is your Invictus Token and achievement for a lot of extra convenience.
That's a fair trade.
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If you'd ever like to enjoy a good round of pugilism or discussing the higher mysteries, Reginald Drownheart may be the dapper gentleman for you!
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Reginald~Drownheart~
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Red-XIII
Posts: 51
2/26/2015
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Speaking from experience with emulation - wherever a speed-up button appears it appears to be overused.
I know several games where it does have it's place, mostly those are games that have it initially, by design, and mostly those are the games that have the real need for variable speed. But adding it to games indiscriminately often ruins the fun essentially wasting player's time, instead of "saving" it.
Even though I've had my own thoughts of a speed-up button for SS, I have to agree with the counterpoint here - people WILL overuse it and break their own fun, just because it's there.
It's a bit of a paradox, but quite often the speed up button just gets you bored faster.
And, IMHO, isn't not the lack of a speed-up button that's the problem. The problem is that some players are left with nothing to do at zee. A smoother mechanic would do to them the same thing it does to the rest - make them too occupied with the process to get bored. I think this is the only right way to fix the problem.
edited by Red-XIII on 2/26/2015
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MisterGone
Posts: 139
2/26/2015
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Red-XIII wrote:
Even though I've had my own thoughts of a speed-up button for SS, I have to agree with the counterpoint here - people WILL overuse it and break their own fun, just because it's there.
It's a bit of a paradox, but quite often the speed up button just gets you bored faster.
And, IMHO, isn't not the lack of a speed-up button that's the problem. The problem is that some players are left with nothing to do at zee. A smoother mechanic would do to them the same thing it does to the rest - make them too occupied with the process to get bored. I think this is the only right way to fix the problem.
edited by Red-XIII on 2/26/2015
Good points.
In general the best way to make the zee more interesting would be to detach the current spawns from their definite anchor points on the map and start working on encounter tables to create more at-zee variation.
I mean, there's seemingly a tiny bit of this near the coasts of London and Mutton Island - There seem to be a variable # of Crabs that spawn there. But that could literally just be my imagination combined with the fact that the little crabs are super mobile when they're not aggroed, and move around so much they seem like they're spawning in different places and in different amounts.
But if you go North from London to Venderbight? Oh hello o'l familiar Pirate cutter! Hello Bats swooping in from the East! You're old friends at this point!
The issue is that, while the big map tiles that contain the islands swap in position a bit, the spawns on them are constant once you're in a new map. This ensures reliability - which has it's benefits of predictability - but lessens spontaneity and randomness.
If they treated each spawn point as having different chances to spawn different sets of potential encounters, it would make sailing 10,000% more interesting and involving, and likely (as you say) eliminate the complaint entirely.
This would especially be the case if they spawned in whole encounters.
Stuff like when you get near Gaider's Mourn, there's 50% chance for it to spawn an Pirate frigate in a particular spot, a 25% chance for it to spawn two pirate Cutters, and a 25% chance for it to spawn 3 pirate cutters engaged in an attack on a neutral steamer. Then you can choose if you want to try to defend the steamer and potentially get a reward or make a friend, or, if you want to gain some (potential as I don't think this is actually in the game yet) pirate affiliation, help the cutters take down the Steamer, and you'll get a different storylet with a new outcome should you succeed.
This seems to be the biggest missing element on the high zee. Changing the spawn locations and types of enemies would be great, but what's really missing are unique situations.
Stuff like a sailing merchant vessel that opens up a temporary market on the sea with you, Admiralty Frigates engaged in pitch battle with Khanagat Triremes, a neutral Caligo-class Freighter low on fuel after a pirate attack - if you help it out they'll ask you to escort them to London for a share in their cargoes.
Stuff like that - that's what makes sailing the sea potentially interesting.
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If you'd ever like to enjoy a good round of pugilism or discussing the higher mysteries, Reginald Drownheart may be the dapper gentleman for you!
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Reginald~Drownheart~
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Red-XIII
Posts: 51
2/26/2015
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Good points, but sounds too complicated to see in any foreseeable future. Heck, just random spawns themselves are probably a boatload of work.
You've said it yourself - the game spawns same things at same places. I doubt that the engine has capabilities to randomise it's spawning so easily.
But maybe it'd be possible to mess with the enemy behaviour to at least give them a chance to wonder further away from their spawn point. THAT could work for a surprise encounter.
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SporksAreGoodForYou
Posts: 291
2/26/2015
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Actually, it wouldn't be that hard. THe number of spawns per tile are limited but also only have 1-3 spawn points. Just add a buttload of spawnpoints while keep the max tile population the same, and you'll see different things spawning from different places all the time.
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Red-XIII
Posts: 51
2/26/2015
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Though of that already. Ask yourself - where is the RANDOM supposed to happen in this?
If the game goes through those spawn points in the same order all the time it'll probably just activate the same spawn points all the time.
edited by Red-XIII on 2/26/2015
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SporksAreGoodForYou
Posts: 291
2/26/2015
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...
Create 200 spawn points. Or 2000. Whatever.
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Red-XIII
Posts: 51
2/26/2015
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And only the first 4-8 that the game routine would go though would ever spawn a thing.
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SporksAreGoodForYou
Posts: 291
2/26/2015
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Red-XIII wrote:
And only the first 4-8 that the game routine would go though would ever spawn a thing.
I can't tell at this point if you're trolling or not. I almost want to believe you are. From your other posts, it seemed liked maybe you had an understanding of code. Perhaps not.
If monsters < maxtilepopulation then spawn new monster from location [random 2000].
This would not "go through" the same 4-8.
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
2/26/2015
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Folks, this thread has set off the Civility Alarm in the Failbetter lair. Even as I type, sad kittens cascade around me, squeaking. The sky is black. The thunder is growling that it needs a hug.
So I'm locking the thread. Remember, all, please err on the side of courtesy.
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