TheD3rp
Posts: 17
2/16/2015
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Essentially what the title says.
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My character, and a friendly reminder to vote for the Captivating Princess in the 1896 London Mayoral Election.
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
2/16/2015
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Well, it's a really big geode. Big enough to have an Admiralty base inside it.
So, then, the question becomes - what exactly is that Admiralty base? Well, it's a convenient post for the New Sequence to work on their secret project.
So, then, the question becomes - why are the New Sequence, and what is their secret project? Well, that's classified, and dangerous, and terribly mysterious. And the basis for the Dawn Machine storyline. But, in broad terms, it's a reactionary force within the Navy attempting to bolster their power in the Neath by... quasi-scientific semi-supernatural thoroughly-inadvisable means.
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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WormApotheote
Posts: 725
2/16/2015
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It's geode. That is grand. :P
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No, I don't pull the Eater of Names.
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Guest
2/16/2015
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I do wish that failbetter would provide more explanation about the various factions in the 'Neath and their relationship with each other. The first three days playing Sunless Sea, I did enjoy the feeling of arriving in a foreign world. By now, I just wish there's a Codex / Ledger / Encyclopedia that explains things. The individual stories become less interesting when the larger implication is unknown to me.
edited by malavore on 2/16/2015
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Gregg Johnson
Posts: 263
2/16/2015
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I *sort* of agree, except that most of that information needs to be in actual game interactions, rather than in a separate Encyclopaedia. More locations need their own multi-part stories, not just a handful on the farthest reaches of the map. And Venderbight, I guess.
edited by Olorin on 2/16/2015
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Guest
2/16/2015
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Or provide both. We're playing as Zee-captains. These are the things zeecaptains should already know.
So provide a basic encyclopedia which will be updated as the story-lines advance. I kinda think that to be told about these things would break the immersion as well as annoying if it is your fifth playthrough.
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Gregg Johnson
Posts: 263
2/16/2015
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No particular reason your zee-captain should know about the New Sequence.
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Guest
2/16/2015
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Hopefully you are not just being pedantic. But let me reiterate:
Zeecaptains might not the know the Sequence specifically though he should have heard rumors. In any case we were talking about the myriad other people and places in the 'Neath that should be common knowledge even among neophyte zeecaptains e.g. Khanate, Staging Area, Varchas, Chelonate, Iron Republic and so on.
In the game itself many of these factions, people and places are treated as something most people (or rather most zeecaptains) should know already. We can just pretend we get the knowledge from spending a day talking to random zeecaptains in a Fallen London bar before setting out.
edited by malavore on 2/16/2015
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
2/16/2015
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If you play the Sphinxstone story long enough to meet the New Sequence agent in London, your character will actually know something about them and comment on their reputation. It is, I grant you, easy to miss something like that if you're skimming or don't know what you should be looking for, but that's what these forums, the wiki and the various fanblogs are for - asking for help and clarification!
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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WormApotheote
Posts: 725
2/16/2015
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malavore wrote:
I do wish that failbetter would provide more explanation about the various factions in the 'Neath and their relationship with each other. The first three days playing Sunless Sea, I did enjoy the feeling of arriving in a foreign world. By now, I just wish there's a Codex / Ledger / Encyclopedia that explains things. The individual stories become less interesting when the larger implication is unknown to me.
edited by malavore on 2/16/2015
Perhaps there is a codex, but it's stored in codex so nobody will tell you what's in it :P
But seriously, I don' think a codex specifically would make a lot of sense, since this is a game that's like, primarily reading, and those tend to be stuck in games that are mostly NOT reading so people who like reading can go and read up on the background that isn't strictly necessary to know. It'd make more sense to like, let you ask people in London about the various factions, or something.
I mean I didn't personally have a lot of trouble with it, but I'd played Fallen London and the new sequence had a cameo there, and the fourth city is pretty significant so the Khanate's name was pretty much enough. But people who don't have that existing background might need more.
I suspect Varchas and the Chelonate are less common knowledge though, especially considering the people from Varchas never leave the city. The Presbyterate is probably more significant.
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No, I don't pull the Eater of Names.
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TheD3rp
Posts: 17
2/16/2015
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Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
But, in broad terms, it's a reactionary force within the Navy attempting to bolster their power in the Neath by... quasi-scientific semi-supernatural thoroughly-inadvisable means.
Are they plotting against the Masters as well, or just the Bazaar?
edited by TheD3rp on 2/16/2015
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My character, and a friendly reminder to vote for the Captivating Princess in the 1896 London Mayoral Election.
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phryne
Posts: 1347
2/16/2015
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Slightly off-topic, but am I the only one thinking that Frostfound looks like a frozen, abandoned version of the Dawn Machine (maybe a prototype)?
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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SouthSea Rutherby
Posts: 224
2/16/2015
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malavore wrote:
Or provide both. We're playing as Zee-captains. These are the things zeecaptains should already know.
Technically, we're playing poets/street urchins/etc who just inherited their first ship. The idea of the game is that your first captain literally has no idea how the world works and has to piece together the secrets of the Unterzee -- hence why the game uses "secrets" as levels and "fragments" of information as experience.
That said, I would love a place in Fallen London you could go to learn about the world from other Zee-captains. In fact, just being able to interact with other captains in any way might be interesting.
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Now the proud captain of Mr. Eaten's Revenge
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Gregg Johnson
Posts: 263
2/16/2015
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phryne wrote:
Slightly off-topic, but am I the only one thinking that Frostfound looks like a frozen, abandoned version of the Dawn Machine (maybe a prototype)?
Given what can be found in the heart of Frostfound, you may not be very far off. I get the impression it's a good deal older than London's Fall, though.
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Guest
2/16/2015
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SouthSea Rutherby wrote:
Technically, we're playing poets/street urchins/etc who just inherited their first ship. The idea of the game is that your first captain literally has no idea how the world works and has to piece together the secrets of the Unterzee -- hence why the game uses "secrets" as levels and "fragments" of information as experience.
That said, I would love a place in Fallen London you could go to learn about the world from other Zee-captains. In fact, just being able to interact with other captains in any way might be interesting.
Yes, you are a neophyte. But the idea that a total newbie would simply just assume the mantle of a zeecaptain and totally inexperienced sailors would actually sign up for you. Yeah, no. The ship would founder five minutes after it left the dock. It's just impossible to sail without having experienced sailors on hand and experienced sailors aint gonna sign for a clueless 'zeecaptain'.
Either the zeecaptains have to have some experience as sailor OR have a mentor on board in form or officer. Either way it would imply some knowledge of the 'Neath.
But back from the roleplaying / technicality to player's enjoyment. First impression is so important and during the first playthroughs you are still learning the mechanic and trying to remember all the new term. Unless you are a diligent note-taker, so many things will just fly over your head and you will forget them as you discover new ports, learn new term, stories and mechanic. All at the same time. All happening within minutes. There's a certain amount of information overload. That many players are being told to just look up in the Wiki sounds like bad design to me.
Perhaps a totally new tutorial game mode that will give the information to player bit by bit would be useful ? The current tutorial inundate the player with information because as aforementioned they have to learn about the game mechanics and the setting all at the same time. One simply have to check Steam and Failbetter's forum as to how well it teaches the player (spoiler: not that well).
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Fretling
Posts: 529
2/16/2015
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malavore wrote:
But the idea that a total newbie would simply just assume the mantle of a zeecaptain and totally inexperienced sailors would actually sign up for you. Yeah, no. The ship would founder five minutes after it left the dock.
Well, yes, that's more or less the kind of thing that happens to new players.
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Rocket Heeled Jack
Posts: 311
2/17/2015
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malavore wrote:
Either the zeecaptains have to have some experience as sailor OR have a mentor on board in form or officer. Either way it would imply some knowledge of the 'Neath.
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Enough to know that you want out of it and on to the sea...
As for inexperienced captains, anyone with money and the will to go out on the water, lured by false stories of Moths that s*** sapphires and reading secrets from the entrails of Lorn Flukes no doubt, the story I'm writing requires that the captain doesn't know everything or it wouldn't work.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Rocket~Heeled~Jack
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
2/17/2015
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Honestly, I think "a completely inexperienced captain with a cheap, semi-competent crew" is a great way to describe our starting position in Sunless Sea. Consider the limited power and prospects of Fallen London's labourers - the Masters have industry locked down, and every day, someone dies, or goes mad, or gets eaten by something squidgy that slurped out of the marshes. People are desperate to get work, and if a posting includes bunk and zeebiscuits, all the more tempting. Of the really experienced zailors, well, that's our officers, and even the best of them have ulterior motives for going to zee - they're dying, or on the run, or searching for the Legendary Lost Treasure of the Empire of Hands. No-one starts out knowledgeable and noteworthy in the tramp-zailing game - if they were knowledgeable and noteworthy, they wouldn't be tramp-zailors.
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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ElectricPaladin
Posts: 43
2/17/2015
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Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
Honestly, I think "a completely inexperienced captain with a cheap, semi-competent crew" is a great way to describe our starting position in Sunless Sea. Consider the limited power and prospects of Fallen London's labourers - the Masters have industry locked down, and every day, someone dies, or goes mad, or gets eaten by something squidgy that slurped out of the marshes. People are desperate to get work, and if a posting includes bunk and zeebiscuits, all the more tempting. Of the really experienced zailors, well, that's our officers, and even the best of them have ulterior motives for going to zee - they're dying, or on the run, or searching for the Legendary Lost Treasure of the Empire of Hands. No-one starts out knowledgeable and noteworthy in the tramp-zailing game - if they were knowledgeable and noteworthy, they wouldn't be tramp-zailors.
This is a reasonably accurate description of mankind's age of sail captains as well. They were basically petty tyrants on the sea. Sometimes they knew what they were doing - sometimes the first mate or someone else on the ship was the one who really had the skills to keep the ship going. Sometimes the captain was drunk, or nuts, or both. Syphilis is a cruel disease, and it was quite common. Sailors took their life in their hands every time they signed on, and the reason they were often very loyal to competent/sane/kind captains was because thank God they found a good one!
I mean, have you read Moby Dick?
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A dangerous and persuasive gentleman recently returned to the 'Neath, eager to respond to any and all invitations. You can find me at my lodgings
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Impish Axile
Posts: 50
2/17/2015
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I think Malavore has a good point - imo the game DOES do a good job of introducing common-knowledge things, but i came in familiar with FL lore. Separating the wheat from the chaff and just REMEMBERING all the stuff is probably quite the challenge, and some sort of codex thing probably would help a lot.
Some way at least to look back at text you've already seen (ships DO have logs) would be especially nice, though idk how hard it'd be to implement.
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