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David
David
Posts: 79

12/5/2012
Allanon Kisigar wrote:
David wrote:
A new card popped into my hand today:

St Beau's Candle


Be afraid; it's a side-show of horrors. I'm loving it the way one would love a choose-your-own-adventure Cthulhu novel.

Does that mean you get to CHOOSE if you go crazy or get eaten by horrors from beyond the stars?


That's where the analogy fails - in the Eaten storyline, both insanity and consumption are inevitable instead of only one. It's more like you get to choose your path to said destruction. Or at least, how you while away the hours.

Allanon Kisigar wrote:
David wrote:
Edit: Oh dear. It has the mother of all fate options. Assuming your mother was Elizabeth Bathory.
edited by The Dave on 12/5/2012


Good gods, that's kind of horrifying. Makes me wonder what kind of hellish Fate option THAT is. Unless maybe it's a way to get to the second candle easily, at perhaps some terrible cost...?


Not the latter. Definitely not. There are never any easy ways on this path.
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Allanon Kisigar
Allanon Kisigar
Posts: 164

12/5/2012
David wrote:
Allanon Kisigar wrote:
David wrote:
Edit: Oh dear. It has the mother of all fate options. Assuming your mother was Elizabeth Bathory.
edited by The Dave on 12/5/2012


Good gods, that's kind of horrifying. Makes me wonder what kind of hellish Fate option THAT is. Unless maybe it's a way to get to the second candle easily, at perhaps some terrible cost...?


Not the latter. Definitely not. There are never any easy ways on this path.


I do suppose that's a fair point. I can't possibly imagine what horrors such an option could contain, then...

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    Asclepius Unbound
    Asclepius Unbound
    Posts: 389

    12/5/2012
    BaronElectric wrote:
    So I've seen two people so far offer a)a starveling cat, and b) fate for a betrayal. That makes me uncomfortable.

    I'm not strenuously attacking it, but I feel it should be pointed out and perhaps watched closely.


    Interesting point, and one I think deserves more discussion. Fallen London is a collaborative game, and recruiting other players is encouraged. There are mechanisms for rewarding others, gifting things to others, and betraying others (I'm talking about poisoning them instead of tending wounds, or the Affluent Photographer options), all fully part of the game. Could you explain why offering in-character rewards for a character accepting an invitation in-game is worrying? Offering Fate is chancy, since it's basically money, but there is a Fate-gifting option for a reason.

    I'm not sure I'd do it myself. Certainly not the Fate part, at least, but I wouldn't have a problem offering First City Coins or something like that for some aid.

    Do Failbetter have an opinion on this?

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    Urthdigger
    Urthdigger
    Posts: 940

    12/6/2012
    I will add, I am perfectly willing to offer anything except Fate, but only because I'm rather poor.

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    Alexis Kennedy
    Alexis Kennedy
    Posts: 1374

    12/6/2012
    Asclepius Unbound wrote:
    Do Failbetter have an opinion on this?


    We don't have a problem with people offering each other Fate, cake or other valuable substances for betrayals. Consenting adults, caveat emptor.


    I don't often talk about the artistic intentions behind the Mr Eaten content, but I'll go on record here. It isn't core content, it isn't terribly commercial (I made a point of writing the latest tranche of Mr Eaten content outside formal company time), and it absolutely isn't meant to be fair. We don't even provide user support for it. If at any point you get fed up and walk away from it because it's too daft or frustrating, that's completely reasonable, and there's nearly a million words of other FL content. I can neither confirm nor deny that at the last step of the way, we'll request your real-world address and ask your permission to let a Failbetter employee come round and smash up your computer with a stick.


    We built Mr Eaten partly because he's part of the Neath's backstory, but mostly because I wanted to explore the edges of choice, commitment and player reflection in interactive stories. If you like, think of it as an alternative to Molyneux's 'Curiosity', except instead of tapping on a cube you're gradually peeling your own skin off. It's been fascinating hearing and watching your responses. Thanks, folks.
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    Asclepius Unbound
    Asclepius Unbound
    Posts: 389

    12/6/2012
    Alexis Kennedy wrote:
    We don't have a problem with people offering each other Fate, cake or other valuable substances for betrayals. Consenting adults, caveat emptor.


    That metagame will get fascinating awfully fast.

    Alexis Kennedy wrote:
    I don't often talk about the artistic intentions behind the Mr Eaten content, but I'll go on record here. It isn't core content, it isn't terribly commercial (I made a point of writing the latest tranche of Mr Eaten content outside formal company time), and it absolutely isn't meant to be fair. We don't even provide user support for it. If at any point you get fed up and walk away from it because it's too daft or frustrating, that's completely reasonable, and there's nearly a million words of other FL content. I can neither confirm nor deny that at the last step of the way, we'll request your real-world address and ask your permission to let a Failbetter employee come round and smash up your computer with a stick.


    This can only end with seven Failbetter employees being sacrificed by Seekers. Note that the staff photo has seven people, and two unnamed. Mr Names and Mr Eaten, clearly.

    Alexis Kennedy wrote:
    We built Mr Eaten partly because he's part of the Neath's backstory, but mostly because I wanted to explore the edges of choice, commitment and player reflection in interactive stories. If you like, think of it as an alternative to Molyneux's 'Curiosity', except instead of tapping on a cube you're gradually peeling your own skin off. It's been fascinating hearing and watching your responses. Thanks, folks.


    If I can be serious for a moment, thank you. This content, which you haven't even been paid for, has (to my knowledge) inspired roleplay, questioning, at least one song, at least one convention LARP, and countless inspired and driven players. I discuss it with my friends, we muse on the nature of the Name, the past cities, the nature of love and choice. Songs remind us of the Name (see "Closer" by the Clockwork Quartet), we use our disciplines (critical theory, musicology, clinical psychology) to talk about it ... the story has become part of our lives over the time we've been playing it.

    Of course we Seek the Name. We must. How could we not?

    You're creating art here, and being part of it is beautiful.

    edited by Asclepius Unbound on 12/6/2012

    --
    Alas, Asclepius Unbound is now forever beyond the reach of invitations. A successful Seeker.
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    Allanon Kisigar
    Allanon Kisigar
    Posts: 164

    12/6/2012
    Asclepius Unbound wrote:
    Alexis Kennedy wrote:
    We built Mr Eaten partly because he's part of the Neath's backstory, but mostly because I wanted to explore the edges of choice, commitment and player reflection in interactive stories. If you like, think of it as an alternative to Molyneux's 'Curiosity', except instead of tapping on a cube you're gradually peeling your own skin off. It's been fascinating hearing and watching your responses. Thanks, folks.


    If I can be serious for a moment, thank you. This content, which you haven't even been paid for, has (to my knowledge) inspired roleplay, questioning, at least one song, at least one convention LARP, and countless inspired and driven players. I discuss it with my friends, we muse on the nature of the Name, the past cities, the nature of love and choice. Songs remind us of the Name (see "Closer" by the Clockwork Quartet), we use our disciplines (critical theory, musicology, clinical psychology) to talk about it ... the story has become part of our lives over the time we've been playing it.

    Of course we Seek the Name. We must. How could we not?

    You're creating art here, and being part of it is beautiful.

    edited by Asclepius Unbound on 12/6/2012


    I don't think there are any words I have that could possibly sum up my feelings about this any better. Bravo, and I completely agree!

    --
  • A Gentleman of distinct and peculiar interests.

    Invites for social actions are most welcome, except for Boxed Cats, SMEN, and Affluent Photographer
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    Nigel Overstreet
    Nigel Overstreet
    Posts: 1220

    12/6/2012
    Alexis Kennedy wrote:
    I can neither confirm nor deny that at the last step of the way, we'll request your real-world address and ask your permission to let a Failbetter employee come round and smash up your computer with a stick.

    This is acceptable. If you could call first so I can put the kettle on, I'd appreciate it. If you took all the trouble to come over, offering a cup of tea is the least I could do.

    Alexis Kennedy wrote:
    We built Mr Eaten partly because he's part of the Neath's backstory, but mostly because I wanted to explore the edges of choice, commitment and player reflection in interactive stories. If you like, think of it as an alternative to Molyneux's 'Curiosity', except instead of tapping on a cube you're gradually peeling your own skin off.

    And that's why Mr Eaten content, should get harder. It tests the limit of player dedication, loyalty and commitment. If it got easier, what would be the point?

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    Spacemarine9
    Spacemarine9
    Posts: 2234

    12/6/2012
    Alexis Kennedy wrote:

    I can neither confirm nor deny that at the last step of the way, we'll request your real-world address and ask your permission to let a Failbetter employee come round and smash up your computer with a stick.


    We built Mr Eaten partly because he's part of the Neath's backstory, but mostly because I wanted to explore the edges of choice, commitment and player reflection in interactive stories. If you like, think of it as an alternative to Molyneux's 'Curiosity', except instead of tapping on a cube you're gradually peeling your own skin off. It's been fascinating hearing and watching your responses. Thanks, folks.

    What happens If a disgruntled Seeker were to come around to the Failbetter offices and smash YOUR computers up with a stick?
    Would that be a fascinating part of the methane or just confirmation you have driven a small subset of people absolutely bonkers
    edited by Spacemarine9 on 12/6/2012

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    Urthdigger
    Urthdigger
    Posts: 940

    12/6/2012
    I welcome your opportunity to come all this way to smash my computer if I get that far. But I reserve the right to hide my laptop behind 7 fiendish puzzles.

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    atheistcanuck
    atheistcanuck
    Posts: 51

    12/6/2012
    Please don't smash the failbetter teams' computers up with a stick, then they wouldn't be able to make anymore amazingly written games.
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    Alexis Kennedy
    Alexis Kennedy
    Posts: 1374

    12/6/2012
    Spacemarine9 wrote:
    Would that be a fascinating part of the methane or just confirmation you have driven a small subset of people absolutely bonkers



    I would be sort of delighted and then I would very quickly call the police.


    Urthdigger wrote:
    But I reserve the right to hide my laptop behind 7 fiendish puzzles.



    Yeah, that's fair.
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    Diptych
    Diptych
    Administrator
    Posts: 3674

    12/6/2012
    As a Fallen Londoner who has, at one point or another, gone toe-to-toe with a fair percentage of the horrors that the Neath has to offer, and, though generally a cautious sort of beast, has taken some foolhardy risks and sometimes paid the price... can I just say that you're all totally bonkers. I'll stick to the million other mysteries - and other mysterious names! - that offer some resolution more worthwhile than tearing myself to pieces in the hope of someday having been torn to pieces.

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    Spacemarine9
    Spacemarine9
    Posts: 2234

    12/6/2012
    i just realised autocorrect changed metagame to methane
    never trust autocorrect
    Alexis Kennedy wrote:
    Spacemarine9 wrote:
    Would that be a fascinating part of the METAGAME or just confirmation you have driven a small subset of people absolutely bonkers



    I would be sort of delighted and then I would very quickly call the police.


    Oh, so it's illegal if WE do it, but if failbetter smashes up our stuff it's just a bit of jolly good fun
    Right then.
    edited by Spacemarine9 on 12/6/2012

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    Delmar Tramontane
    Delmar Tramontane
    Posts: 50

    12/6/2012
    We gave permission for it in this hypothetical situation.

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    Alexis Kennedy
    Alexis Kennedy
    Posts: 1374

    12/6/2012
    >If failbetter smashes up our stuff it's just a bit of jolly good fun [...] We gave permission for it in this hypothetical situation.

    And there, gentlemen, is the Eaten design philosophy in a nutshell.
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    David
    David
    Posts: 79

    12/6/2012
    Urthdigger wrote:
    I welcome your opportunity to come all this way to smash my computer if I get that far. But I reserve the right to hide my laptop behind 7 fiendish puzzles.


    I think that's letting Failbetter off far too easy. I'd start with a number of expensive challenges, each revealing a single digit of my longitude and latitude to enough precision to locate my residence. What's that? You completed them, and the location is the middle of an ocean? Well, you didn't think they were in base ten did you? Ten is not the number. To find the number, you'll need another series of expensive challenges... Well, let's just say it's going to be a lot of work before you get the reward of Mr. Urthdigger's seven fiendish puzzles and the chance to smash a computer.
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    Spacemarine9
    Spacemarine9
    Posts: 2234

    12/6/2012
    What if I smash Failbetter computers in self defense in order to stop them getting my address to find my computer to smash it?
    I feel like we may be taking this a bit too far.
    But i don't think the St. Arthur's Candle card even exists any more. I haven't seen it ergo it's not there
    i mean i've gone from getting three in one day to none in three days. it's gone forever
    edited by Spacemarine9 on 12/6/2012

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    my rats will blot out the sun
    Ratgames
    FL lore/mechanics questions and answers
    #FallenLondon IRC (irc.synirc.net) Channel! Click to join via Mibbit.
    #SunlessSea IRC channel! Like the above, but zee-ier.
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    Allanon Kisigar
    Allanon Kisigar
    Posts: 164

    12/6/2012
    Spacemarine9 wrote:
    What if I smash Failbetter computers in self defense in order to stop them getting my address to find my computer to smash it?
    I feel like we may be taking this a bit too far.
    But i don't think the St. Arthur's Candle card even exists any more. I haven't seen it ergo it's not there
    i mean i've gone from getting three in one day to none in three days. it's gone forever
    edited by Spacemarine9 on 12/6/2012


    I doubt they eliminated it so soon. I just imagine that they REALLY lowered the frequency to keep people from blasting right on through the content

    --
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    Invites for social actions are most welcome, except for Boxed Cats, SMEN, and Affluent Photographer
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    Urthdigger
    Urthdigger
    Posts: 940

    12/6/2012
    Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
    As a Fallen Londoner who has, at one point or another, gone toe-to-toe with a fair percentage of the horrors that the Neath has to offer, and, though generally a cautious sort of beast, has taken some foolhardy risks and sometimes paid the price... can I just say that you're all totally bonkers. I'll stick to the million other mysteries - and other mysterious names! - that offer some resolution more worthwhile than tearing myself to pieces in the hope of someday having been torn to pieces.


    So, if you're not seeking, would you mind an invitation to the path, which you can then shortly take an option to abandon and make it official?

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