 Little The Posts: 700
10/20/2012
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What were the "more interesting presents" originally, if I may ask? Higher chance of Darkdrop Coffee?
-- A gentleman of numerous descriptors that change far too often. Second chance and menace reduction invites are welcome.
My journey to Seek the Name is recorded for posterity here. I asked "Who is Salt?"
I am a member of the Temple Club. If you would like an invitation, feel free to request one!
Fallen London is a game of choices. When you make an important one, you can record your rationale here.
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 Nigel Overstreet Posts: 1220
10/20/2012
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Alexis Kennedy wrote:
Thanks for the reminder, guys. We originally took it down until we could fix an issue with Twitter, but in the meantime we've been advised that incentivising an echo is now in breach of both Facebook's and Twitter's platform policies (which have evolved since we first built the game). Consequently, we can't switch it on again until such time as the policies change (most likely, never). We'll update the misleading text next week. This seems a massively unfair policy. The game was designed with the concept of "Echoing" in mind and it is the only reason to link an account to either Twitter or Facebook. To arbitrarily decide to punish Failbetter by taking away an incentivising portion of the game and one of it's selling points seems both asinine and counter productive. I have a "real" Twitter account with about 9 followers. The account I made solely for Fallen London has about 200 and I use it far more. The ways in which Twitter makes money from me, it makes more money from my Fallen London account. To take away echoing is to take away hundreds if not thousands of accounts who would otherwise be far more active. If people don't like me echoing, they can unfollow me. But there are hundred of people I follow for no other reason than they do echo. And really, is echoing a link to Fallen London any more bothersome than their "trending topics" encouraging people to tweet about whatever the pop star of the day is doing? Or WWE, for example, incentiving people to tweet by voting for something about their television program? Or any number of companies, like Teatley Tea, offering a lottery of some kind by rewteeting something of theirs? I understand the policy and that incentiveising an echo can be abused by less ethical companies, but a blanket ban to all games seems Draconian. Every television program now has a hashtag in the corner encouraging people to tweet about it and that is not only allowed, but encouraged. Why is Fallen London any different?
I don't know much about this sort of thing, but would it be possible to create a petition to provide an exception for Fallen London to this policy? Something pointing out the fact that echoing helps Twitter, creates more users and is just another extension of incentivising tweets that hundreds of companies do everyday.
-- The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know! Cider Club
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 Catherine Raymond Posts: 2518
10/21/2012
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Nigel Overstreet wrote:
Alexis Kennedy wrote:
Thanks for the reminder, guys. We originally took it down until we could fix an issue with Twitter, but in the meantime we've been advised that incentivising an echo is now in breach of both Facebook's and Twitter's platform policies (which have evolved since we first built the game). Consequently, we can't switch it on again until such time as the policies change (most likely, never). We'll update the misleading text next week. This seems a massively unfair policy. The game was designed with the concept of "Echoing" in mind and it is the only reason to link an account to either Twitter or Facebook. To arbitrarily decide to punish Failbetter by taking away an incentivising portion of the game and one of it's selling points seems both asinine and counter productive. I have a "real" Twitter account with about 9 followers. The account I made solely for Fallen London has about 200 and I use it far more. The ways in which Twitter makes money from me, it makes more money from my Fallen London account. To take away echoing is to take away hundreds if not thousands of accounts who would otherwise be far more active. If people don't like me echoing, they can unfollow me. But there are hundred of people I follow for no other reason than they do echo. And really, is echoing a link to Fallen London any more bothersome than their "trending topics" encouraging people to tweet about whatever the pop star of the day is doing? Or WWE, for example, incentiving people to tweet by voting for something about their television program? Or any number of companies, like Teatley Tea, offering a lottery of some kind by rewteeting something of theirs? I understand the policy and that incentiveising an echo can be abused by less ethical companies, but a blanket ban to all games seems Draconian. Every television program now has a hashtag in the corner encouraging people to tweet about it and that is not only allowed, but encouraged. Why is Fallen London any different?
I don't know much about this sort of thing, but would it be possible to create a petition to provide an exception for Fallen London to this policy? Something pointing out the fact that echoing helps Twitter, creates more users and is just another extension of incentivising tweets that hundreds of companies do everyday.
I agree with Nigel and I'd gladly join such a petition.
-- Cathy Raymond http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355
Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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 Corentin Os Posts: 109
10/21/2012
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Perhaps you might petition Twitter via change.org?
-- Always delighted to make the acquaintance of delicious friends! Profile here - battles of flora (strength), interviews (LF), gently rustling parcels etc. etc. welcome
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 Aximillio Posts: 1251
10/21/2012
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Catherine Raymond wrote:
I agree with Nigel and I'd gladly join such a petition.
I also agree.
-- Possibly returned after a long hiatus. Please do not send live rats or tournament requests.
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 Corentin Os Posts: 109
10/22/2012
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Okay, I'm assuming you'd like to reinstate echoing to Twitter for refreshes, so I'm not going to worry about Facebook for the moment, mostly because it gives me the sh*ts. So, Twitter's advertising policies are here, and it seems to me that Echoing for action refreshes violates none of them, though Twitter has obviously decided otherwise and informed the FBG folks as much. If you are serious about starting a petition, I do think change.org would be the easiest way to go - it's respected by the community at large and has a history of successes, some rather prominent, and does not require registration in order to sign a petition, merely a name, email address, and country. Be prepared, though, for a petition to fail in an epic way, either through lack of signatures or Twitter simply saying 'Nope. Not happening.' I'm not sure what number of signatures would be best to aim for, as I have no idea how many people play Fallen London with any regularity, nor how many out of those might be made aware of a petition and feel strongly enough to sign one. After garnering a reasonable number of signatures on our hypothetical petition, it would just be a matter of writing to Twitter saying something along the lines of (but hopefully a lot better than): 'We, the undersigned, would greatly appreciate consideration for allowing Failbetter Games, the creators of the text-based game Fallen London, permission to reinstate the option for players to 'Echo' a short piece of text to their Twitter stream in return for a small in-game reward. We consider whatever policy dictates that Twitter no longer allows this 'Echoing' to be massively unfair in relation to this game, given the large number of companies, television shows, and other institutions which blatantly incentivise re-tweeting or tweeting about their products/services. Below is a comment which represents our general feelings on the matter, and why Failbetter Games shoud be given permission to reinstate 'Echoing': ~Nigel's comment, and maybe/hopefully a few others~ ~A succinct closing statement that I am too tired to think of at the moment~ Sincerely, Whomever Starts This Petition, representing the undersigned players of Fallen London and users of Twitter
Thoughts/suggestions?
-- Always delighted to make the acquaintance of delicious friends! Profile here - battles of flora (strength), interviews (LF), gently rustling parcels etc. etc. welcome
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 WriterCPA Posts: 2
10/22/2012
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I also missing Echoing for refreshes. Alternatively, I'd like a better rate of exchange between Nex and actions. Given how little it takes to have a second candle as an Exceptional Friend, the cost of a few extra actions to finish the night is outrageously expensive. A good cup of "coffee" even with the attendant wounds was much better.
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 Alexis Kennedy Posts: 1374
10/22/2012
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Ladies and gents,
Thanks very much for the thought, but his petition looks like a plea for special treatment for Failbetter Games, and the casual reader would easily assume that we're behind it, or have been manoeuvering to get you folks to do it. We want to avoid both of those things. If other companies break the rules, that's not our concern - it's important that we're honest whether anyone else is or not.
So if you are going to do a petition, please make it about the policy in general, not about Failbetter. If your reaction is - well, wait, I don't want *other* people to be able to incentivise tweets - then that's how other Twitter users feel about us. :-)
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 Tommy Wi Posts: 87
10/22/2012
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Huh... moments ago, I realized that "Temporary disabled" sign of echoing button was gone, and thought that it was fixed. Look like it was false alarm. Also, I agree that 'unlocking action refresh until everything get fixed' idea would be nice. Especially since that previewing storylet without action is sadly no longer an option. I know that it's an unintended bug, but nobody seems to remember it anymore.
-- Bazaar is eternally sorrowful, always weeping in form of the Lacre and the Tear. So Bazaar demands Love Stories from its Masters. It must consume our love to endure endless grief.
Maybe that's why Bazaar ate us. Maybe that's why we are "Delicious Friends".
==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==
* Tommy Wi & Nedemmons™, constantly grumbling and complaining over Bazaarian economy and SCIENCE! Since 2012!
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 Urthdigger Posts: 939
10/24/2012
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I would like to ask WHY folks want this back. Not saying it's a bad thing, but your reasons for wanting it back would likely be very useful in determining what to do next.
I personally miss it as it was nice to have a daily thing I could do for more actions, and also gave an advantage to being an exceptional friend.
However, I would not particularly like to see it come back as echoing to my social networks. It looked the same as your typical game spam, so I highly doubt most of my followers actually clicked any of the things I echoed (I even tried to echo interesting things!). Indeed, sometimes I worried about "spamming" my followers with that.
-- Looking for second chances to maximize your loot output from those troublesome storylets? Check out our handy gang of volunteers in this thread, or even volunteer yourself!
@Urthdigger on twitter
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 Aximillio Posts: 1251
10/24/2012
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Urthdigger wrote:
I would like to ask WHY folks want this back. Not saying it's a bad thing, but your reasons for wanting it back would likely be very useful in determining what to do next.
I personally miss it as it was nice to have a daily thing I could do for more actions, and also gave an advantage to being an exceptional friend.
However, I would not particularly like to see it come back as echoing to my social networks. It looked the same as your typical game spam, so I highly doubt most of my followers actually clicked any of the things I echoed (I even tried to echo interesting things!). Indeed, sometimes I worried about "spamming" my followers with that.
This is true, it's mostly the actions that are cared for rather than the spammy tidbits you would echo, I believe. The journal works out if you want things noted down, after all.
-- Possibly returned after a long hiatus. Please do not send live rats or tournament requests.
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 Catherine Raymond Posts: 2518
10/24/2012
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Urthdigger wrote:
I would like to ask WHY folks want this back. Not saying it's a bad thing, but your reasons for wanting it back would likely be very useful in determining what to do next.
I personally miss it as it was nice to have a daily thing I could do for more actions, and also gave an advantage to being an exceptional friend.
However, I would not particularly like to see it come back as echoing to my social networks. It looked the same as your typical game spam, so I highly doubt most of my followers actually clicked any of the things I echoed (I even tried to echo interesting things!). Indeed, sometimes I worried about "spamming" my followers with that.
You make a good point, Urthdigger. What I miss is the opportunity to do something daily for more actions, not Tweeting to my friends list. (Though I admit, I first learned about, and tried what was then called Echo Bazaar by following the link in a friend's Tweet. Ironically, she no longer plays.)
-- Cathy Raymond http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355
Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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 Sagacitas Posts: 9
11/1/2012
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A one-per-day refresh, whether linked to social posts or not, would be nice. An additional advantage in turn economy for Exceptional Friends, whether linked to social posts or not, would be nice. A policy that forbids incenting social posts is a clear statement that Twitter and Facebook are not participating in the reality-based community. Every other restaurant, shop, or business I walk past or surf to offers a discount or bonus for a "Like". Singling out Failbetter for this is ludicrous.
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 Nigel Overstreet Posts: 1220
11/2/2012
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Urthdigger wrote:
I would like to ask WHY folks want this back. Not saying it's a bad thing, but your reasons for wanting it back would likely be very useful in determining what to do next. A good question. It's an incentive to play the game. It's an incentive to play every day and to make the game more social. It helps create a Fallen London community within Twitter and helps new people find old players & vice versa. It's something that gets more people to play the game, which is my main concern, and it's exclusion, I feel, harms immersion for role players and the like. Without Twitter I never would have found the hundreds of fellow Fallen Londoners I follow, never would have discovered the RP community, my clique members, EBZ Writes or been able to communicate with others about the game on a one-on-one, real time basis in a way a forum does not allow. It takes away a dimension of the game which was, to me, one of it's most intriguing elements. I don't really use Twitter for anything else. I understand this isn't true for everyone, which is why it's optional. I just don't want that option taken away.
-- The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know! Cider Club
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