I’ve been wanting to Seek for years, and was about to begin. However, I’ve found that Seeking now (if pursued with one’s main account with no desire to restart) carries with it the price of no longer being to play Fallen London, which is a price that’s too steep for me. I like Fallen London.
Also, the Sevenfold Knock intrigues me as a completionist/one looking to maximize BDR, as long as I avoid Obscurity.
The solution, if I want to experience Seeking without giving up my account, seems to be to create an alt representing the version of me willing to do that. That said, I came across some overtones here and there during my research suggesting that this is looked down upon, which is somewhat discouraging. Additionally, I’m concerned that going for the Sevenfold Knock might lock me out of Seeking in the future, but haven’t been able to find out for certain.
What are the community’s thoughts on this? Namely, the validity of creating an alt to sacrifice to Seeking and of going for the Sevenfold Knock? On the one hand, completionism and a thirst for knowledge would demand I go as far as I can, right up until total self-termination since existence is rated slightly above knowledge for me. On the other hand, it feels like I’m perverting the spirit of Seeking by trying to actually use it for long-term gain.
Maybe I’ll just go for the Knock and then save the final step for if/when my main is ever ready to go to the end?
Do what you like, there may have been some frowning at alts in the beginning but by now they’re so common that anyone that still frowns has probably had their mouth drop off.
In order to get the seven fold knock, you need to complete seeking,and then turn back once you reach the end. This locks you out of going north again. edited by suinicide on 12/3/2016
I’ve always played several characters and this one was the Seeker. Since finding out that going through the gate means that Ciel will not be able to return to London I decided I would take her as far as she can without permanently destroying herself. Whether that is all the way to the gate I haven’t decided yet. she has just got Mr Eaten’s Calling Card but hasn’t set foot on Winking Isle yet as that is the stage where you need to get rid of a lot of stuff and I need some time to do that. So I started a new character to take that final step (and might eventually do so more than once to experience the different endings).
IMO, you ask the wrong question. Is it in character for your character to Seek? Then do so. If not, and you-as-player are interested in the SMEN content, create another character and Seek. Some people have five and six characters running around FL, there is no reason why you can’t have a pair, or more if you have that much time on your hands. :)
Don’t mind what the community thinks. Do what seems right for you.
I feel that finishing SMEN with an alt is an error because the weight of your choices during the storylet is not the same as it would be with your main account. It isn’t as strong as it could be.
SMEN is a story about sacrifices (and many other things), and sacrifices need to hurt in order to be meaningful.
But that’s only MY point of view and how I see things, maybe for you it’s different, and then what I just said doesn’t apply to you.
Broadly speaking, just do what you like. Seeking is an experience, and you can make that experience whatever you want it to be.
I had a long time alt with a bunch of fate wrapped up on it that I’d intended to turn around at the gate, but ended up sacrificing because it felt right. Seeking has a distinct theme of sacrifice. Of letting things go and giving things up. I have an alt that was originally meant to be my sacrifice (and would have gone NORTH by now if my other account hadn’t already). But in the end, I realized that I wanted the experience of losing something. The alt was my fun account, that did weird things like collect 40 something eyeless skulls, while my main account focussed on grinding. I still occasionally wish I hadn’t sacrificed it. But I don’t regret it.
That being said, obviously I haven’t given up my main account. It’s currently waiting to complete the Cider grind before heading to Winking Isle. I plan for it to turn around at the last moment and get the Knock. But the cider grind is wearing on me. I can’t promise that I won’t open the gate in the end.
I too am a completionist, and plan to turn back at the edge to gain the Knock. This won’t happen for quite a while, as I’m grinding for cider and can’t go to Winking Isle until I finish. And sure, I won’t get a clean ending or find out what happens beyond the gate. But Seeking is about sacrifices. I’ve already sacrificed time and effort, spent items for my quest to damnation, gained menaces and lost stats. Reaching the gate will require even more. Really, the tidy resolution of story and character for knocking is a reward - players go through hardship and sacrifice because they want what lies at the end, whether for lore or RP. So isn’t turning back, giving up any chance of resolution and knowledge, a sacrifice itself?
Seeking is a story about sacrifices, but I’ve read plenty of good stories that didn’t somehow try to prevent me from reading other stories as well. I had no intention of letting FL Seeking break the fourth wall and tie the sacrifices and suffering of a character in a story to any kind of “sacrifices” or “suffering” for me IRL, so doing it on an alt was an easy choice.
To be honest, I feel like knocking at the end makes alot of the sacrifice you had to make very pointless, at least, it gives it that feeling.
What’s the point of having to slowly see every item and stat go when at the very end, you will have no use for any of that, you will sacrifice your character, your items and your stats but you won’t feel the stats and the items go because they won’t matter, you don’t get rid of everything you own and then commit suicide, to really feel the sacrifice, you need to keep living without them.
To be honest, I feel like knocking at the end makes alot of the sacrifice you had to make very pointless, at least, it gives it that feeling.
What’s the point of having to slowly see every item and stat go when at the very end, you will have no use for any of that, you will sacrifice your character, your items and your stats but you won’t feel the stats and the items go because they won’t matter, you don’t get rid of everything you own and then commit suicide, to really feel the sacrifice, you need to keep living without them.[/quote]
In my view, new Seeking has a very different approach to sacrifice than original Seeking. In its original incarnation, SMEN featured many unpleasant surprises. Item loss, stats loss, random menace gains, potential bugs. Seekers might wake up to find their Enigmas were stolen, or they were deep in the Royal Beth after non-Seekers dumped nightmares on them. Progress might require rare and expensive items, or large quantities of cheaper items, with a chance of just wasting everything. The endpoint was expected to destroy your character anyways, but getting there would be tough.
Now in modern SMEN, significant stats loss is rare. Menaces are common, but in much smaller doses than before. Item costs are much lower - by my count the big costs are 14 Enigmas and change for Arthur and a Calling Card. (Did you know, back in the day the God’s Editors option cost 77 Enigmas? Nobody ever managed it as Enigmas couldn’t be made in the University at the time.) Winking Isle’s costs are now measured in actions and patience, not thousands of echoes or constant menace sinks. It may require poverty, but you’re given room to make investments.
I guess what I’m saying is I see new SMEN as a much smaller sacrifice than old SMEN. It’s a much smoother ride now and the sacrifices are more inconveniences than setbacks. Some of this may be from detailed documentation - the wiki had no information on the Nightmare Carnival before SMEN’s return, for example. Finding the shortest path to the end is simple. As such, knocking is a sacrifice of future possibility, not the original prediction of ending a suffering account’s misery. A sacrifice of history and potential, at least outside dedicated Seeking alts.
To quote spacemarine9’s fairly strained metaphor: "…old Seeking played dirty, and tried to cut you with an old, rusty dagger, even when you weren’t paying attention to it. New Seeking is much more refined; it holds out a sharp silver rapier and invites you to impale yourself on it." The hardship before was trying to dodge and bandaging the wounds afterwards. We modern Seekers can relax, we can even remove our fancy gear to avoid bloodstains, but in the end we take an active role in our own destruction. The question now is which we value less: knowledge and closure, or limitless potential.
Personally I’d rather give up any resolution and continue onwards without knowing "what if". At least in London I’ll have Cider for comfort.
One thing I don’t quite agree with is the idea of separating characters into "mains" and "alts," with the assumption that the player is somehow less concerned with the fate of the "alt" than he is with the "main," or that what happens to an alt "hurts less" than what happens to the main. There are players who have been running multiple characters for years, with Exceptional Friendships and Fate purchases and every trait of the soi-disant "main" for all or some of them. While everyone is different in their connection to their characters and their dedication to role-play, it seems fallacious to attribute some lesser value to the "alt" than the "main," although I daresay it applies to some players. The vocabulary is at fault, here, IMO, simply because "alt" is shorter than "one of my characters."
As for the "attitude of the community," I don’t see why that should be a consideration at all, nor do I see how one could reliably determine such an unsubstantial thing. Surely we play FL for our own enjoyment, and what others think of our choices or actions (where they have no affect on anyone else, which is the case with most actions in FL) should not be relevant to that enjoyment.
I agree that the vocabulary is the issue here. In my experience, "alt" tends to be used for two different meanings. It might refer to accounts created after a "main" first account, even if these alts are used as often or more than the main, or if they’re considered just as important as the main from an RP perspective. I’d guess that "main" is rarely accurate here, and that these players use the term more as a widely-recognized descriptor than for its accuracy. The other usage is for accounts that are left largely ignored; perhaps only broken out on holidays, perhaps used for mechanical advantage, perhaps used for viewing alternate story paths or wiki research. Often this type of alt lacks the same depth of RP character and personality that the main is given.
This distinction is clearly more relevant in Seeking than other, less weighty stories. Whether to Seek on throwaway alts is up to individuals, but I’d draw the distinction here based on the alt’s personal importance to the player. (Which account is more active doesn’t seem important, as some inactive long-time players have returned to Seek on alts.) If the alt is unique, if Seeking is part of its story and not just its player’s, if it couldn’t be replaced by any freshly-created account… then that alt has significance, and its sacrifices do too.
[quote=Amalgamate]
Seeking is a story about sacrifices, but I’ve read plenty of good stories that didn’t somehow try to prevent me from reading other stories as well. I had no intention of letting FL Seeking break the fourth wall and tie the sacrifices and suffering of a character in a story to any kind of "sacrifices" or "suffering" for me IRL, so doing it on an alt was an easy choice.[/quote]
I’ve received some amount of grief from a few random strangers for not doing SMEN the "proper" way with a "main". (One even got a Temple Club invite from me to expedite their journey much earlier, and called me a bimbo later on. No they are not on this forum.) You could almost argue that it is sort of like IRL suffering depending on the thickness of your internet skin.
I don’t think it is any less "valid" just because it is on an account you have no attachment to. You still have to click as many buttons as any other people.
To me, as a player, with the many stories left hanging for years with no end in sight (#DilmunWarOfDaughterAmbitions) on the scale against the definite end of SMEN, an alt isn’t all that bad. People even do save-and-load in other games to explore paths, what makes starting a new file to look at other stuff so wrong?
Seriously though, don’t belittle people for something intangible like this.
Given the intricacy and depth of Seeking, I’d think anyway that a player who started it with a “throw-away” alt would soon be sucked into the story and form quite an attachment to his doomed avatar.
[quote=malthaussen]Given the intricacy and depth of Seeking, I’d think anyway that a player who started it with a "throw-away" alt would soon be sucked into the story and form quite an attachment to his doomed avatar.
– Mal[/quote]
I can’t speak to Seeking, since I haven’t gone down very far down that road with any of my characters, but this is exactly what happened to my "alts." I created them to experience the other ambition stories, but very quickly they took on strong personalities of their own, and now they’re pretty fully-fleshed characters. I’m glad I did experience the other ambitions, as I’ve quite enjoyed them.
I have put a toe in the Seeking waters with Jack, my most recent creation. We’ll see where he goes with it.
The interesting thing about my alt is that I formed her by accident, but couldn’t muster that much interest in her until she started Seeking. Now I have a much better idea of her personality.
[quote=malthaussen]One thing I don’t quite agree with is the idea of separating characters into "mains" and "alts," with the assumption that the player is somehow less concerned with the fate of the "alt" than he is with the "main," or that what happens to an alt "hurts less" than what happens to the main. There are players who have been running multiple characters for years, with Exceptional Friendships and Fate purchases and every trait of the soi-disant "main" for all or some of them. While everyone is different in their connection to their characters and their dedication to role-play, it seems fallacious to attribute some lesser value to the "alt" than the "main," although I daresay it applies to some players. The vocabulary is at fault, here, IMO, simply because "alt" is shorter than "one of my characters."
As for the "attitude of the community," I don’t see why that should be a consideration at all, nor do I see how one could reliably determine such an unsubstantial thing. Surely we play FL for our own enjoyment, and what others think of our choices or actions (where they have no affect on anyone else, which is the case with most actions in FL) should not be relevant to that enjoyment.
– Mal[/quote]
That’s a good point, Mal. In my case, it’s true–I do have a stronger attachment to my "main" character, because I’ve played her for so much longer. But that’s not by any means going to be true of every player, or even most players, of FL.