In attempting to work on my Dangerous quality, I’ve hit a point where I am levelling almost primarily through ventures, which for the purpose of this post means a set of storylets where you use one storylet to increase a progress quality such as Fascinating or Running Battle, then do a storylet that tests that quality for a big payoff. I am using this term because most of these types of storylets fall under the venture qualities, though not all of them: Dueling with the black ribbon and obtaining specimens for the labyrinth of tigers being two that do not have such a quality.
Anyway, I was wondering what people’s thoughts were on them: Do you enjoy them? Do you find them profitable or not? In my own experience, I like the concept if nothing else: Working my way towards a goal, and then accomplishing that goal, is a more engaging way to raise my stats rather than simply getting 1000 tattoos of a non-existent aunt.
However, they do seem to be less profitable than these other options. Using Feducci as an example (After running some numbers, he seems to be the most profit for turns required), it’s theoretically possible to get 100 rostygold per action, assuming one is using the storylets that increase running battle by 3, which means a dangerous of about 80-85. However, this requires you to defeat Feducci right when your running battle hits 15, at best a 50% chance. Getting running battle up to 20 for a sure win takes almost twice as long, and one earns only 57 rostygold per action.
The big annoyance with ventures is that losing them tends to be quite a bit more painful than other storylets. On top of not getting a reward, and gaining some menace (Feducci in particular is very brutal in that regard), you lose some of your progress quality, which means more turns spent getting it back up. You also cannot use second chances for these tests.
So, does anyone prefer these as a way of getting funds? And is there possibly something I am overlooking in my calculations? I’d love to know.
Actually I don’t like them very much. I usually start every new one for the sake of completion, but while they start fine, soon you start needing more and more points to increase your Progress, so sometimes you have to spend a large part of your 10 Actions only for that… And then it comes the “AHA!” moment, and you never know if trying it at once risking to fail and having to start grinding again, or to keep grinding pointlessly :s Actually, anytime I manage to end up a Venture, I’m usually all “Phew… Finished at last”.
[quote=Endy]I prefer using the special venture quality improvement cards instead of grinding(Hetty’s Husband, Ear Tree, etc).
progress is piecemeal but much more cost effective overall. I’ve gotten a payout in only 3 actions a few times now. edited by Endy on 2/16/2012[/quote]
Those are definitely excellent- I try to keep 1 in all of my progress qualities just so that I can use them for the ventures I’m not actively grinding.
One thing to consider is that if your stats are below 100, 1 echo/action is actually a bit high of a return- the “standard” level-appropriate payout is a pence per level. So for the Feducci example, you’d hit 80 rostygold per action somewhere between 15 and 20, where you’d have a decent chance. Another is that there are a couple ventures that give you payout with each individual action, and the completion action just advances a story or something; there’s no disadvantage to doing those when they’re available, unless you don’t need the good they give. A few combinations let you “double dip,” like boosting Investigating… at the University (which gives Cryptic Clues with every action) and cashing it in at the Flit (which gives stuff for the completion).
1.64 echoes an action?! o_O What venture is this? The most profitable I’ve heard of is the Velocipede Squad…
Anyway, on topic, I generally don’t like ventures, no… It seems like too much risk for too little payoff. I prefer a more stable source of income. It was even worse when failing meant removing all your progress instead of just a little…I am eternally grateful they changed that. edited by Little The on 2/16/2012
I am aware that you tend to get your level in pence for actions that are chancy, in my calculations the 100 pence per action for Feducci was an example of how it can be profitable, IF you are exceptionally lucky.
I like them better now that they are balanced so that you dont have to start over if you fail, you just loose some progress. Thoughi m not all that thrilled by them, they can be very grindy. “the big one” is probably my favorite, cus it has more options both in terms of casing and in terms of target. There’s nothing better than building up your casing for a glorious rendez vous on the Brass Embassy to steal a sack full of souls, jewels and infernal contracts to then sell back to them for a room at the Western Tower, the suckers.
I prefer ventures as a means of profit more than doing the same thing over and over, even if they wind up being less effective overall, because of the feeling of accomplishment when you complete one.
My complaint with them is that at the current level cap, there are very few left you can do, much less with any profitability. I’m glad to see the updates they’ve done to the casing ventures in the flit and hope to see similar updates to add more of the other sorts of ventures for high levels. edited by KatarinaNavane on 2/17/2012
I, personally, dig them. They are hard for some people to get their heads around because, to some, instant gratification takes too long.
If the big annoyance is failing the final test, then just bump your quality up until it’s a straightforward challenge.
I don’t know which venture supposedly gives 1.62 Echoes per action, but I either suspect it resets on a failure, which makes it less profitable than calculated overtime(which is what “ventures” are about,) or someone’s maths are off.
[quote=Nigel Overstreet]I, personally, dig them. They are hard for some people to get their heads around because, to some, instant gratification takes too long.
If the big annoyance is failing the final test, then just bump your quality up until it’s a straightforward challenge.
I don’t know which venture supposedly gives 1.62 Echoes per action, but I either suspect it resets on a failure, which makes it less profitable than calculated overtime(which is what “ventures” are about,) or someone’s maths are off.[/quote]
Well, part of the annoyance is that increasing the quality until it is straightforward takes enough extra time to result in a substantially lower reward, lower even than doing regular straightforward storylets.
Now, Aspeon did mention something interesting. I ran some numbers for the Feducci example, and to get 80 rostygold per action would require 50 actions. If spent on the 3 CP actions, you hit 16 in 45 actions, 17 in 51 actions. Both are modest. Going at 16, that gives you 5 turns to pick yourself up from possible failures, which there hopefully won’t be many of with a roughly 50% success rate. Though, Feducci is probably not a very good example to try this on, given the massive increase to wounds and automatic trip to the boat on top of losing running battle quality. Since I’m a little further than when I started this thread, I’m going to give this a shot on capturing a live spider council later.
Ok, for capturing a live spider council, failure costs 10 CP of running battle, as well as some nightmares and wounds. Ignoring the menaces as simply normal costs of failure, this still requires at least 3 actions to get back to the stat you were at before. It would seem that failing once (and only once) would have you coming out with about as much money as you would for standard storylets.
One of the things that bothers me with these ventures, is simply the fact that second chances don’t work on them. Sure, they work on the actions to improve your progress quality, but on the action that counts the most, you’re a bit more at the mercy of fate. I wonder if it wouldn’t be broken to have Hard-earned lessons give a second chance at running battle challenges, confident smiles give a second chance at fascinating and inspired challenges, hastily scrawled warning notes give a second chance at casing challenges, and sudden insights give a second chance at investigating challenges.
They’re very fun when you first embark on one, and try out all of the different methods and so on. I especially like how more and more intriguing options are unlocked as my Progress rises - the ‘Wars of Illusion’ set were definitely my favourites, combining a few different Progress statistics. I regret passing that stage without having tried all of the options.
However, at other times they can feel really stale - creating works of art for the Empress definitely comes to mind. Although there were many options, mostly it was just about 2-3 weeks straight grinding. I didn’t want to trade my Connections, so the storylets I used didn’t provide extra rewards other than Progress building, and it all felt very tiring. That whole affair should better have a d–n good payoff.
[quote=Urthdigger]
Well, part of the annoyance is that increasing the quality until it is straightforward takes enough extra time to result in a substantially lower reward, lower even than doing regular straightforward storylets.[/quote]
That’s part of the draw. It’s a risk v. rewards thing. The safest way is always going to be less profitable. The riskier venture offers more reward, but the stakes are higher.
If it was just a simple go (a) get (b) per action, that gets very boring very early. If it were always a constant reward regardless of challenge, then it would be no different than the former. It’s a fun part of the game design that changes things up and makes you think not only about how you want to play, but how your character tries to do things. Overall, the math of Echoes per action has been calculated and regardless of whether the action is a “venture” or no, it’s almost always on par with your level.
Yes, it sucks to loose a test you’re spent the whole day perusing; but if there wasn’t the possibility of failure, it wouldn’t be much of a game.
If you’re talking about the University/Flint option then you’re maths are off by .1 Echoes per action.
If you’re talking about Mahogany Hall, then your maths are WAY off.
I like to play through the storyline of the ventures but I find having to “grind” for skill to be quite annoying. I did two run throughs with the Black Ribbon during the Festival of Endless Actions, I think I would have found it significantly less gratifying if I’d been working on it during the previous candle/action accruing state.
I don’t actually do ventures for any echo grinding experience. Currently when I’m in need I am still able to spend time with the Fisher Kings or venture to the Labyrinth as diamonds sll quite well… As do street signs
So, finishing up my hunting for beasts for the labyrinth of tigers, I started hunting the spider council once I hit the requisite 15 quality, which was chancy difficulty. This meant not needing the extra 16 CP to hit the next level, with only a 10% less chance of success. Seemed to work decently enough, though I wouldn’t recommend this for any ventures where the challenge is still “high-risk” or “almost impossible” as soon as you unlock it.