Jenny’s plans for public reform have been revealed and they’re less "For the People" and more Tammy Hall (staff the government with supporters, regardless of qualification).
It is true that she wants to staff city hall with her supporters, but look at who these supporters are: people bearing the stigma (in Victorian London) of sex work, the working class, and the poor. I expect all candidates to fill roles in town hall with their supporters if they win, and moreover, raising up some of the most marginalised people is, to my mind, a rather moral act. (The earlier criticisms about blackmail are entirely valid.)
Old spoilers or not, some people haven’t got around to that series, what with there being more art than any one man can consume in a lifetime. And since some people do want to experience the stories unspoiled, and there are perfectly viable spoiler tags that we can use, maybe consider using them? I’ve personally read the books, and I was spoiled by that particular spoiler when I did, and while it certainly didn’t destroy my appreciation of the story there is a unique experience to be had reading a story for the first time and I felt somewhat robbed at being unable to experience it.
But regarding the crux of the argument: I wouldn’t call Jenny Tolkienian. She lies, extorts, corrupts her enemies and tries to secure a position in the London government for the sake of a foreign power. The Contrarian and The Bishop, for all their faults, seem to be in this for the opportunity to make a difference, and everything we have on Jenny tells us she’s in it for the power the position will give her. The deck is definitely stacked in her favour, no doubt about that, but I think saying there’s not a sniff of bad on her is taking it a little too far.
Yeah, Jenny’s more a Tyrion than a Ned Stark. She knows how to play the game.
Speaking of Jenny… forgive me if this has been brought up before, but I actually think the evidence points to her being genuine. If she’s really just in this for power, why would she burn her bridges so thoroughly with the Masters and the aristocracy? By extorting her rich customers she’s poisoned her own well – that blackmail’s not going to last forever, and if she has betrayed explicit confidences, she’s thoroughly torpedoed her parlour’s reputation and there’s no way she’s going to get secrets this juicy ever again. The upper class will hate her for this, and now she doesn’t even have Mr Wines to fall back on. If her populist campaign was really just a cynical ploy for her own gain, why subject herself to this much risk? Why extort the aristocracy instead of just exchanging favors or allowing herself to be bribed like most politicians do? Why cut ties with the real power in the city and then not publicize it? She’s definitely up to something, but I don’t think her campaign is as much of a front as people are assuming.
[quote=Professor Sketch]
What I’m trying to say is that currently, Jenny is a bright, white, shining light of perfect morality that seems like a concrete wall blocking a possible election of more difficult choices between characters with moralities of shades of grey. The Contrarian and the Bishop are damaged, three-dimensional, fascinating characters, both with positive qualities and negative ones. If only there were a third character like this, perhaps the election wouldn’t be such a landslide. As it is, finding out why the other two candidates may be bad choices doesn’t feel so much like making the choice harder (as it would if there were three candidates of grey morality), but more like, "Ha, look at how poorly the losers are doing! I sure am glad I don’t have to pick between three poorly performing candidates - instead, I can follow Jenny as she protects Sherwood Forest with her merry band of nuns, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor!"[/quote]
You speak like the game boosts your Magnanimous for voting Jenny. I think you are giving her too much credit. Blackmail is not a stable foundation for mayoral duties.
The Bishop is still driven by the raging religious zeal he had before, the Contrarian is Contrary to the very end even when up against Feburary, and Sinning Jenny showed that she had nothing but intrigue to rely on. There is still that cloud of doubt surrounding her motives, her connections and her plans for the future, and others had made very convincing arguments that she might be damaging to democracy long-term with her hidden tyrannical ways.
And this is an election. Someone is invariably more popular than the others, and in a setting like this people don’t solely vote because someone is sort of kind.
Some vote the Bishop because they want Hell to invade. Some vote the Bishop now because they believe in purging Hell to the very end.
Some vote the Contrarian because they want the Liberation. Some vote for the Contrarian now because they want to be Contrary to the very end even against the his self-sabotage.
It is true that she wants to staff city hall with her supporters, but look at who these supporters are: people bearing the stigma (in Victorian London) of sex work, the working class, and the poor. I expect all candidates to fill roles in town hall with their supporters if they win, and moreover, raising up some of the most marginalised people is, to my mind, a rather moral act. (The earlier criticisms about blackmail are entirely valid.)[/quote]
Staffing through a spoils system is always detrimental to the quality of government service.
[quote=Professor Sketch]
Also, yes, she lies, extorts, and corrupts, but like I said, she’s essentially Robin Hood. Robin Hood is a thief. He robs people. But he does it all for good reason, and gives it all to the poor. With each update, she becomes more and more London’s shining hero, while the other two candidates become more damaged and complex.
Jenny’s so rebellious and independent that she’s returning the money given to her for her campaign. Do you see how that rather stands out against the information on the other two?[/quote]
Yes. Two are men, one is woman. ;)
I kid, I kid.
The Bishop and the Contrarian aren’t entirely in control of their campaigns, but their personality didn’t change: purge Hell, be contrary.
Jenny seems to be in control of her campaign, but her sincerity and true allies are a cloud of mystery. Don’t forget that Robin Hood is not what a mayor should be, and she might not be a good Robin Hood.
More importantly, the other two candidates get some much needed insight into their character and competence. It might not be flattering, but these people exists outside of election. So at least you’d know how much help the Bishop will need if it comes to war: far too much.
I have to say, I’m a Jenny supporter through and through and even I think Professor Sketch is overselling this picture of her as this shining beacon of goodness. The information we have available indicates that she is fully willing to engage in corruption and graft, and not every target of that will be some nefarious noble with a sadistic secret.
What’s interesting is that while every candidate is consolidating their support around a core group that will undoubtedly be favored with positions and influence if they are elected (in the case of the Contrarian and the Bishop, those core supporters may be the only people left that they can really trust), Jenny is much more organized. While the Bishop and the Contrarian are focused on putting out the fires in their campaigns, Jenny is planning for the long term.
Anne Auclair likened her to Tammany Hall, which, ironically, is a strong indication that Jenny will follow through on her rhetoric about helping London’s poor and disenfranchised. Corrupt and self-serving as that political machine was, it was very good to the immigrants of the city, helping them navigate the confusing bureaucracy of local government, helping them naturalize, finding them work, and forming a rudimentary social safety net in hard times. That’s because those immigrants were their prime constituency, and without their support, all the corrupt shenanigans in the world wouldn’t keep them in power. As Little The points out, she has soaked her previous power base in gasoline and tossed a lit match onto it with a blown kiss and a wink. It’s gone and she’s not getting it back. If she doesn’t earn the loyalty of the new power base she’s building among London’s poor and disenfranchised, she’ll be left with nothing when the smoke clears, and she is planning for the future too much for me to think that she is blind to this or willing to scamper off to the convent once her term is up.
edited by Kaigen on 7/12/2016
I meant Boss Tweed’s Tammany Hall :P
Falstaff: I pressed me none but such
toasts-and-butter, with hearts in their bellies no
bigger than pins’ heads, and they have bought out
their services; and now my whole charge consists of
ancients, corporals, lieutenants, gentlemen of
companies, slaves as ragged as Lazarus in the
painted cloth, where the glutton’s dogs licked his
sores; and such as indeed were never soldiers, but
discarded unjust serving-men, younger sons to
younger brothers, revolted tapsters and ostlers
trade-fallen, the cankers of a calm world and a
long peace, ten times more dishonourable ragged than
an old faced ancient: and such have I, to fill up
the rooms of them that have bought out their
services, that you would think that I had a hundred
and fifty tattered prodigals lately come from
swine-keeping, from eating draff and husks. A mad
fellow met me on the way and told me I had unloaded
all the gibbets and pressed the dead bodies. No eye
hath seen such scarecrows. I’ll not march through
Coventry with them, that’s flat: nay, and the
villains march wide betwixt the legs, as if they had
gyves on; for indeed I had the most of them out of
prison.
[quote=Kaigen]Snip
As Little The points out, she has soaked her previous power base in gasoline and tossed a lit match onto it with a blown kiss and a wink. It’s gone and she’s not getting it back. If she doesn’t earn the loyalty of the new power base she’s building among London’s poor and disenfranchised, she’ll be left with nothing when the smoke clears, and she is planning for the future too much for me to think that she is blind to this or willing to scamper off to the convent once her term is up.
edited by Kaigen on 7/12/2016[/quote]
There’s a reference to her recieving large amounts of Morelways now. It makes it look as though her "split" with Mr Wines deservers quotation marks.
edited by MrBurnside on 7/13/2016
A female leader rallying the disenfranchised and lowborn, who exposes the corruption of the ruling elite and is backed by kickass celibate fighters? She’s just missing three dragons and a Fourth City khalasar. :)
I hope Jenny keeps seeming like the perfect candidate, and when she wins, something horrible is revealed that’ll make me regret every vote I got for her and curse my idiocy for thinking FBG would give us an objectively good candidate. The purer the hero, the more painful the fall, and the sweeter the taste of our tears. Vote Jenny.
[quote=MrBurnside]
There’s a reference to her recieving large amounts of Morelways now. It makes it look as though her "split" with Mr Wines deservers quotation marks.
edited by MrBurnside on 7/13/2016[/quote]
I thought it was because she just decided to finance herself frivolously with the blackmail money?
Amen. [li]
The fact that some people can say that all the candidates seem reasonable, some can say that one is clearly perfect and the others fools’ choices, and some can say that all three are irredeemable and that the election will be a disaster for London… well, it makes me think the writers have done their job right.
Errrrr… Vote Jenny, I guess.
If this is not the plan I will be surprised. The Payment for ousting The Tiger must be claimed in tears and blood.
This is a rather unfair charge as it’s very easy to accidentally kill people with words while attending London’s better parties :P
Players do it all the time. Should you express an inappropriate opinion, a gentleman drowns in his soup while everyone looks on with indifference:
[quote=]You may have had a glass too many.
What exactly was it you said? Why did it cause that owlish gentleman to faint? And shouldn’t someone lift him out of his soup? He’s stopped making bubbles.[/quote]
Yeah, he’s dead.