Table Eleven at an 1894 Hallowmas Dinner Party

Fallen London
121

&quotOdd that you’d talk about evil and a better future in the same breath as you speak of sipping red honey. I know lesser criminals that avoid that stuff like the plague out of principle. Merely an observation, dear.&quot[/quote]

&quotAn appeal to the audience, really. One is not required to be good to acknowledge the existence of evil, nor an optimist to argue for optimism. I don’t care one wit for the morals of the world, so long as there are books to be read and knowledge to be sought.&quot

&quotWell, I don’t think a world without dreams would produce much by the way of quality books, so that is a quandary… Which capacity of dreaming are we talking about? Those that only come at night, or inclusive of inspiration and aspiration?&quot
edited by pillbox on 11/5/2016

122

[li]I meant to include inspiration - all inclination ta make da current world better in some way

123

[quote=Jo Greycoin]
I meant to include inspiration - all inclination ta make da current world better in some way[/quote]

&quotHmm, without dreams the only books left would be histories, dictionaries, and the biographies of boring people; contrarywise, what are books there for but to inspire dreams? Take away one, and the quality of the other declines. I must, sadly, conclude that wine is the only removable piece. Thank God for whiskey!&quot

124

[quote=pillbox][quote=Jo Greycoin]
I meant to include inspiration - all inclination ta make da current world better in some way[/quote]

&quotHmm, without dreams the only books left would be histories, dictionaries, and the biographies of boring people; contrarywise, what are books there for but to inspire dreams? Take away one, and the quality of the other declines. I must, sadly, conclude that wine is the only removable piece. Thank God for whiskey!&quot[/quote]

&quotThere’s dreams, and then there’s dreams,&quot Inevitable Gremlin obliquely remarks. &quotReally, it all comes down to which of the Masters you prefer to deal with. Wines, of course, are the purview of Mr. Wines, keeper of secrets and lies. Books, to Mr. Pages, though he seems inclined to suppress them as much as promulgate them. I once had occasion to deliver a small library to Pages, who called it &quotprovidentical,&quot of all things. And dreams, we must suppose fall under the heading of Spices, for the honey. Though Wines once told me that dreams properly fell under that heading…come to think of it, I still haven’t been paid for that night either. And some nights I lie awake thinking that dreams can’t possibly belong to the Masters…but then who do they belong to?&quot He takes a sip of wine. &quotNot that I’d ever ask them that. Or about any of the other secrets they think I don’t know. Though I suppose those secrets are where my confession is to be found.&quot

He gives himself a shake, dislodging his scarf, which flutters to the floor. It starts creeping up the leg of the chair, determined to wrap itself around his neck again.

125

&quotThanks much.&quot She takes a rather larger swallow than had been the case before.

126

[quote=Gremlin][quote=pillbox][quote=Jo Greycoin]
I meant to include inspiration - all inclination ta make da current world better in some way[/quote]

&quotHmm, without dreams the only books left would be histories, dictionaries, and the biographies of boring people; contrarywise, what are books there for but to inspire dreams? Take away one, and the quality of the other declines. I must, sadly, conclude that wine is the only removable piece. Thank God for whiskey!&quot[/quote]

&quotThere’s dreams, and then there’s dreams,&quot Inevitable Gremlin obliquely remarks. &quotReally, it all comes down to which of the Masters you prefer to deal with. Wines, of course, are the purview of Mr. Wines, keeper of secrets and lies. Books, to Mr. Pages, though he seems inclined to suppress them as much as promulgate them. I once had occasion to deliver a small library to Pages, who called it &quotprovidentical,&quot of all things. And dreams, we must suppose fall under the heading of Spices, for the honey. Though Wines once told me that dreams properly fell under that heading…come to think of it, I still haven’t been paid for that night either. And some nights I lie awake thinking that dreams can’t possibly belong to the Masters…but then who do they belong to?&quot He takes a sip of wine. &quotNot that I’d ever ask them that. Or about any of the other secrets they think I don’t know. Though I suppose those secrets are where my confession is to be found.&quot

He gives himself a shake, dislodging his scarf, which flutters to the floor. It starts creeping up the leg of the chair, determined to wrap itself around his neck again.[/quote]

Turning toward Gremlin, Lady Catherine remarks, &quotI have no opinion about whether any Master has any control of dreams, but I do know that Wines never pays his help; he expects them to scavenge the hall while cleaning up after party-goers. If that does not suit your circumstances, I recommend finding excuses not to accept offers of employment from … er, it.&quot

127

Vena leans back in her chair, twirling her dinner knife between her fingers like a majorette might a baton. &quotFrom the tales one hears, Mr. Wines is almost as stingy as Stones. Though personally I find Pages and Fires to be rather generous, given incentive. But any dealings with the Masters is something not taken lightly; no matter their affability I doubt there’s a single one amongst them that cares for mere mortals as anything beyond favoured pawns and playthings.&quot

She sips from her glass once more and then takes a moment to examine her reflection in the deep honey-coloured liquid. &quotI am going to play the pedant here and say dreams. Despite what a shame it would be, wines can be replaced by other vintages and beverages, lesser though they might be, and books can be replaced by scrolls, wax tablets, and so on; but dreams, and nightmares, really have no substitute.&quot

[quote=Gremlin]
And some nights I lie awake thinking that dreams can’t possibly belong to the Masters…but then who do they belong to?&quot[/quote]
Vena smiles. Behind the serpent mask her eyes sparkle, like embers glimpsed through an emerald. &quotWho indeed? The Parabola is a most fascinating place.&quot

128

[quote]

[quote]&quotThere’s dreams, and then there’s dreams,&quot Inevitable Gremlin obliquely remarks. &quotReally, it all comes down to which of the Masters you prefer to deal with. Wines, of course, are the purview of Mr. Wines, keeper of secrets and lies. Books, to Mr. Pages, though he seems inclined to suppress them as much as promulgate them. I once had occasion to deliver a small library to Pages, who called it &quotprovidentical,&quot of all things. And dreams, we must suppose fall under the heading of Spices, for the honey. Though Wines once told me that dreams properly fell under that heading…come to think of it, I still haven’t been paid for that night either. And some nights I lie awake thinking that dreams can’t possibly belong to the Masters…but then who do they belong to?&quot He takes a sip of wine. &quotNot that I’d ever ask them that. Or about any of the other secrets they think I don’t know. Though I suppose those secrets are where my confession is to be found.&quot

He gives himself a shake, dislodging his scarf, which flutters to the floor. It starts creeping up the leg of the chair, determined to wrap itself around his neck again.[/quote]

Turning toward Gremlin, Lady Catherine remarks, &quotI have no opinion about whether any Master has any control of dreams, but I do know that Wines never pays his help; he expects them to scavenge the hall while cleaning up after party-goers. If that does not suit your circumstances, I recommend finding excuses not to accept offers of employment from … er, it.&quot[/quote]

The lady laughs, &quotIt’s practically tradition now to have an outstanding dept with Wines! One isn’t a proper citizen of the Neath until the lousy drunk owes you money. As for the rest, any might be said to have dominion over some dreams - Veils for song, Hearts for immortality, Cups for sculpture. But I rather think true, come-by-night, drive you to Bethlehem, hiding-behind-the-mirror dreams come from somewhere, rather than someone. A &quotsomewhere&quot rather closer to the Neath than Above.&quot

129

&quotIndeed I am! That is, using the books to undermine them. I don’t intend to give up the ones I already own, good lady, merely train Jo’s crew to recognize the copies among those who’d use those words to fuel certain bad actions.&quot She tips a wink &quotConsider it…enhancing the rarity of the titles in question. But, to ponder Jo’s query, I must concur with Vena: a world without dreams would be worst. One could make art and tell stories without books, and, though you, my tablemates, are inclined to disagree, it is possible to function without Wine. I suppose the truly stubborn among you in such a dystopia would settle for beer, liquor and cider, though never Airag!&quot She grins at the lady in green.

[li]

130

&quotYou’re certainly right about Wines, &quot Lady Catherine said. &quotI worked too many jobs for him; the experience made me an expert scavenger.&quot She laughed, then said more soberly. &quotI would not bet against dreams being the province of Parabola, but does that mean the Fingerkings control them? That seems odd, somehow.&quot
edited by cathyr19355 on 11/6/2016

131

&quotIndeed I am! That is, using the books to undermine them. I don’t intend to give up the ones I already own, good lady, merely train Jo’s crew to recognize the copies among those who’d use those words to fuel certain bad actions.&quot She tips a wink &quotConsider it…enhancing the rarity of the titles in question. But, to ponder Jo’s query, I must concur with Vena: a world without dreams would be worst. One could make art and tell stories without books, and, though you, my tablemates, are inclined to disagree, it is possible to function without Wine. I suppose the truly stubborn among you in such a dystopia would settle for beer, liquor and cider, though never Airag!&quot She grins at the lady in green. [/quote]
[li]
&quotI suppose,&quot Lady Catherine replied, &quotthat whether you think the absence of dreams is the worst fate depends upon what your own dreams are like.&quot She shudders, briefly. &quotI suppose one could survive on beer and whisky, though.'[/li]

132

Vena grins. &quotWhat an exquisite sentiment, one I wholeheartedly share. Knowledge is like power, its value directly proportional to its rarity. Of course knowledge should never be lost or destroyed entirely, but I have heard it argued that we should freely distribute knowledge, regardless of its secret or dangerous nature, among the common citizens. An idea that is not only irresponsible, but almost perverse, and would surely lead to anarchy.&quot

&quotCider wouldn’t be too bad, I rather enjoy it, the non-Hesperidean variety of course; I have yet to taste the wonder that is the juice distilled from the golden apples. Of course there is another option all together; simple water. There is plenty of fresh, crystal clear water in the Neath untouched by salt or waste. It’s an refreshing experience every now and then.&quot

133

&quotI suppose ‘influence’ might be a better term. Certainly the dream-serpents have an unprecedented amount of power in the realm of Morpheus.&quot

134

Vena grins. &quotWhat an exquisite sentiment, one I wholeheartedly share. Knowledge is like power, its value directly proportional to its rarity. Of course knowledge should never be lost or destroyed entirely, but I have heard it argued that we should freely distribute knowledge, regardless of its secret or dangerous nature, among the common citizens. An idea that is not only irresponsible, but almost perverse, and would surely lead to anarchy.&quot

&quotCider wouldn’t be too bad, I rather enjoy it, the non-Hesperidean variety of course; I have yet to taste the wonder that is the juice distilled from the golden apples. Of course there is another option all together; simple water. There is plenty of fresh, crystal clear water in the Neath untouched by salt or waste. It’s an refreshing experience every now and then.&quot[/quote]

&quotOne day, they will grow tea in the 'Neath, and this entire conversation will be moot. As it stands, the stuff they bring in from the surface is always bitter and stale.&quot The woman sighed, and swayed slightly from side to side.

&quotTo the other note, I’m not sure I agree with an enforced limitation to knowledge - if one doesn’t want a secret to make the rounds, it should not have been committed to paper, and those who kill themselves with dangerous knowledge remove themselves from the equation once they are done. At any rate, there is a better ways to control knowledge than to lock it away like a fairy tale princess (which will surely encourage foolhardy princes to free them), and that is to control the way it is learned - that is the reason the Church was so powerful Above: in dictating the morals of the people, they set the foundation of though, those thoughts begat philosophy, which begat law, which controlled the accumulation and spread of further knowledge (and wealth, bought with those same morals, controlled that which remained). To be sure, they used censorship as a tool, but their greatest success was to lead people into censoring themselves for fear of greater harm or greatest reward. They met the thirsty horse at water’s edge and convinced it to NOT drink, but they did not drain the lake.&quot

&quotIf that was too rambling, consider this - if Knowledge is Power, it does not follow that the power belongs to the person with the knowledge, but rather exists as power OVER them.&quot

135

Vena turns in her chair to regard Pilbox with interest, then she inclines her head with a smile. &quotWell said. I applaud a keen mind, and especially an eloquent one.&quot

&quotAnd what about those who kill others with dangerous knowledge? And trust me, there is more than enough people who will use knowledge to hurt. Whether knowledge as simple as physics to build ever more deadly weapons of war or chemistry to brew poisons - or knowledge as esoteric as the Correspondence or the designs of the Liberation of Night, and I am sure our American friend here can attest to the dangers of these otherworldly pieces of lore.&quot

She twirls a lock of hair playfully around her finger, her voice a velvety purr. &quotAs to the former point I have to disagree. While it serves as a good rule of thumb, the world is far to complex for such simple rules to cover all events. What if you have to send this secret to someone far from you? What if you want to preserve it for subsequent generations? What if you knew that you might not be able to remember, such as if prior to exposure to irrigo? - Never mind the fact that with Red Honey and Fingerkings in this stygian realm even secrets inside your mind might not be safe.&quot
&quotThat said, you do make an excellent point about how to control knowledge. Teaching, motivations, and belief are powerful things, and you are absolutely correct; rather than try to keep a man from a thing against his will, it is a far more effective means to make him voluntarily want to stay away.&quot

[quote=pillbox]
&quotIf that was too rambling, consider this - if Knowledge is Power, it does not follow that the power belongs to the person with the knowledge, but rather exists as power OVER them.&quot[/quote]

She chuckles cheerfully. &quotOh, it was perfectly lucid. But I would never dream of equating knowledge with power. I was merely comparing the two. Knowledge is a power, certainly, but only one of many; charisma, money, force, fear, prestige, authority, cunning, to name but a few.&quot

136

&quotWhile I concede your point on the transcription of secrets, the last three example you give seem more like theft than the conscious act of writing. I do not contend that all knowledge should be given with impunity, or that one’s rightful thoughts are property of any who may take them, only that the destruction of a document does not equate to the destruction of an idea and that the destruction of an idea is a terrible thing to attempt in the first place. Sabotage lowers the tone of an argument, if nothing else.

&quotTo the first: How many medicines might be bettered by those poisons, or never discovered for their absence? How many miraculous machines overlooked because their function is distantly derived from a weapon? There is certainly danger to knowledge, it would be naive to argue otherwise, but they are risks that must be taken if one wishes for other rewards. I myself am a scholar of the correspondence, but for all the harm it does me I do not regret what I have learned because I feel it is worth learning. By that token, I will teach others what I know so that others need suffer less for it. If there is anarchy, it is because there are anarchists, and if knowledge will further their cause then it will further other ones. Better ones.&quot

137

[quote=pillbox]
&quotWhile I concede your point on the transcription of secrets, the last three example you give seem more like theft than the conscious act of writing. I do not contend that all knowledge should be given with impunity, or that one’s rightful thoughts are property of any who may take them, only that the destruction of a document does not equate to the destruction of an idea and that the destruction of an idea is a terrible thing to attempt in the first place. Sabotage lowers the tone of an argument, if nothing else.

&quotTo the first: How many medicines might be bettered by those poisons, or never discovered for their absence? How many miraculous machines overlooked because their function is distantly derived from a weapon? There is certainly danger to knowledge, it would be naive to argue otherwise, but they are risks that must be taken if one wishes for other rewards. I myself am a scholar of the correspondence, but for all the harm it does me I do not regret what I have learned because I feel it is worth learning. By that token, I will teach others what I know so that others need suffer less for it. If there is anarchy, it is because there are anarchists, and if knowledge will further their cause then it will further other ones. Better ones.&quot[/quote]

&quotOne might venture that some ideas are too dangerous to let live,&quot Captain Gremlin says, &quotThough as an agent of the Press, I’m honor-bound to admit that has seldom stopped me. Still, there are some ideas that seem to be self-concealing. Take the Cave of…I’m sorry, I’ve forgotten what I was going to say. But there do seem to be secrets that work to keep themselves secret, as it were.&quot

&quotOf course, killing someone isn’t a guarantee that they’ll keep your secret, especially not down here. But there are worse things than being dead. I experienced one of them…I robbed it once. The Bazaar, I mean. And got caught.&quot He pauses, shuddering at the memory. &quotThank the ceiling stars of the Neath that you’ll never know what that’s like. I can’t tell you: the secret keeps itself. I can only remember.&quot

&quotIt’s strange, but after that, they started to let me into some of their secrets. I’ve been working with the Masters, you know. Not in everything, certainly, but they trust me. After a fashion, in the case of some of them, but they do find me reliable. Enough to entrust me with some little jobs here and there. And a shop at the Bazaar. And some consideration at Christmas. A paperweight, once. But if they knew…&quot He takes a sip of wine. His scarf curls comfortably around his shoulders.

&quotThey trust me now. Think they’ve reformed me. And perhaps they’re right, in a sense. Certainly, I’ve aided them in their schemes. Propped them up. Saved them from revolution. And started robbing them again, right from under their noses. They don’t even realize that they’ve been stolen from, that their own thefts have been turned against them.&quot

&quotSomeday, they’ll take me into their innermost circles. And I’ll betray them. Steal their most precious thing at their very moment of triumph.&quot

138

The cat has been lurking under the table: a large, black, long-haired creature of great elegance. She climbs up onto an empty chair to regard the table.

“I don’t suppose you have any fish?” she asks, politely.

139

Even Nightmares are useful, especially here, where they can prove prophetic. Unpleasant, but useful.

On hearing Pillbox out, Eleonor resumes: &quotI’m afraid I still stand with Vena’s view.&quot She nods to the lady in question, before turning to Pillbox again. &quotI’m not unsympathetic to the idea we must control learning. Recall, I’m a Correspondent by trade, and I hope to blunt the language’s damage to young minds by preventative education. But I recall a recent mishap when an untrained junior reader nicked a book from a Special Constable’s cart. I don’t think I was the least bit wrong in snatching his prize from him. He was beginning to smoulder, after all, hardly giving me time to invite him to Agate House for a class. Some who would die in the pursuit and use of knowledge have little conception of the consequences that may result. I would reduce harm to the innocent, even the foolhardy. We cannot all be intellectuals, living the life of the mind.&quot

On hearing this, Eleonor’s face goes blank, while a muscle under her right eye begins to spasm. &quotMirrors…&quot she mumbles. Her gaze falls on her water-filled wine glass. &quotGah!&quot she starts, then throws a nearby napkin atop the glass, covering the thing. She blinks slowly, then seems to return to herself. &quotSorry, sorry. Beg your pardon.&quot

[quote=Eglantine-Fox]The cat has been lurking under the table: a large, black, long-haired creature of great elegance. She climbs up onto an empty chair to regard the table.

&quotI don’t suppose you have any fish?&quot she asks, politely.[/quote]
Oho, wrong festival, I’d say! You should hop a ferry to Mutton Island come next late-summer, my dear. You’ll eat yourself sick!

[li]

140

Inevitable Gremlin pulls something fishy out of a small oil-cloth sack: it flops a bit. “Here you go, malkin. I was saving it for zee-bait, but there are more where that came from.”