Stop making Quirks require wiki-ing everything.

There is nothing more infuriating than losing a high quirk of mine, but gaining no quirk in return, because the other quirk is over the tiny cap of 4 or 5 or whatever.

Attending a church function does not make me less of a hedonist. It means I appreciate free food.

I should not be deathly afraid for my character to have any feelings about the ‘weather at last’.

Quirks are an intimate part of how I conceive my character. Whatever system you design for players to shape them should stop this horribly un-fun dynamic where I have to wiki all my choices in advance to avoid losing points in Hedonist (my character’s defining trait) that I can’t easily get back whenever I do any goddamn thing.

This is seriously frustrating. I’m not some old-timer who was gaming the system. I’m not a scarlet saint. It just sucks because I can’t relax and play the game, I have to meta-game by poring over some advertising-infested wiki in order to avoid having my character losing the traits that are most important to him. This makes Fallen London a less fun and less immersive activity.

You guys understood this when it came to menaces being about story, rather than penalty. I don’t fear diving into a story option just because it might kill me or drive me insane, and THAT MAKES THE GAME WAY MORE IMMERSIVE THAN IT WOULD OTHERWISE BE. You should understand the same principle when it comes to quirks.
edited by Televangelist on 7/22/2015

While I do agree with what you’re saying, what would happen if they uncapped the quirks? People would devote their life to increasing their chosen quirk to ridiculous heights. Like what happened before they capped them…

It seems that your concerns are already being addressed! While it may take some time, I do believe that the quirk system will come to more closely resemble a system that might accurately describe our characters based upon actual character actions, rather than seemingly arbitrary attachments to repeatable actions.

[quote=Alexis Kennedy][quote=Sara Hysaro]I imagine a fair number of the changes being made will impact lower leveled characters more than those of us who’ve completed most of the content. Their decisions will shape their characters, and if they’ve been especially austere or steadfast that will place their quirks at sufficiently high levels naturally.

Anything that’s repeatable needs to be balanced to avoid undermining their stated goal, so while I imagine there’ll be ways to break into high quirk values that are always available they’ll likely come with a catch. If the catch is unpleasant one can simply wait it out, since new one-off content will give us more character-shaping choices that raise the associated quirks up substantially.

edited by Sara Hysaro on 7/18/2015[/quote]

[color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]Sara nails it.[/color][/quote]

[quote=Alexis Kennedy]
[color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]We do want to make it slightly easier for someone who has a really specific long-term agenda for their character to keep high-level Quirks in line with this. There will always be surprises in story outcomes, no matter how carefully we signal - language is imperfect and people misclick.[/color]
[color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]
[/color]
[color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]We don’t want to make it easier for people to collect 'em all, or to massage their Quirks up high without following one-off plots. We don’t particularly mind if people find ways to do it, but it will never be a design goal.[/color][/quote]

It will probably take a while, but change is coming. (quotes taken from this thread if you are interested)
edited by Hypersomnus on 7/22/2015

Me, for example.

Also: feedback@failbettergames.com is the best place to make in-game recomendations
edited by Nigel Overstreet on 7/22/2015

Me, for example.
[/quote]

THINK ON YOUR SINS

I think a judicious application of “no decrease if Quirk is higher than #” rules would improve this kind of problem immensely, and Alexis also indicated more of those are coming. Perhaps to existing changes like “Weather at last” too!

Alexis just posted in the quirk polisher thread the reasons for quirks being as they are:

[quote=Alexis Kennedy]1. For ‘daily grind’ players, quirks rose to very high levels. For new or less number/grind focused players, they didn’t. This huge range meant it wasn’t practical to use quirks to unlock branches, or pass difficulty tests, because it was impossible to balance for something that could be between 1 and 150.

  1. So we needed to put a limit on quirks, or else relegate them purely to being bragging labels without story consequence.

  2. But we couldn’t just cap them, or, because of the way our numbers work, it would be possible to grind very quickly to the cap, and we wouldn’t have be able to signal or reward big, dramatic moments.

  3. So we went for a soft cap that allowed players to keep existing off-the-chart quirks for the time being; that allowed day-to-day choices to be reflected; that encouraged exclusive choices of the kind we favour for story and drama terms; that limited the upper reaches to rarer choices.

Balancing the needs of different kinds of player - from the daily, passionate, numbers-focused grinder to the equally passionate enthusiast for one-off story and the minimal number of clicks - is difficult. We’ll keep tuning the experience, but careful design means hard decisions, compromise, and occasional heartache for core players. That’s how it is in every long-term game ever. [/quote]

don’t see why it’s got anything to do with the wiki/wikias dedicated to FL. quirks have very little profitable use anyhow. is that anything to get upset about?

It’s CDO. Like OCD, but with letters in proper alphabetical order like they should be.

In all seriousness though, it’s a roleplaying opportunity for some people.
edited by Alistair Cray on 7/22/2015

Odd attitude. Many players are far more concerned about character development and story than they are about in-game profits.

As for quirks themselves, if they wanted to implement a cap they could set it so that before the changes are fully implemented there are a few weeks where Time the Healer reduces your quirks (much the same way as it does your Making Waves) if you’re above a certain threshold.
(I don’t know how the current stuff is implemented in the code, so please forgive any ignorance on my part.)

So, if the intended cap was say 15 (I’m just pulling a number out of the air here - don’t take it too literally), then Time the Healer could go:
If Quirk>30 then Quirk=Quirk/2
If Quirk<=30 AND Quirk>=15 then Quirk=15.

With that kind of thing applied in TtH for each type of quirk, it would allow them to automatically bring people’s levels down to where they’re meant to be before the storylet changes go through.

Then any actions that would raise Quirk above the cap could be modified so that they don’t raise it above 15 (or whatever the intended cap would be.) If they decide to raise the Quirk cap later on, then it would be less coding to change as they’d only need to modify TtH and high-level quirk storylets.

I’m sure they have their own ideas in the pipeline, but that’s how I’d probably do it.

Me, for example.[/quote]
I find it amusing, and somewhat appropriate, that your most recent Journal entry has the heading &quotDo you have any comprehension what you have unleashed?&quot
(Also, I’m kinda envious. :-p But just how many counterfeit heads did you make out with???)

Edit: It seems the &quotQuirks Polishers&quot thread has had a bunch of updates since I last checked. Looks like I have some reading to do! ^_^
edited by Kittenpox on 7/22/2015

This gives a pretty well summed up version of the War of Hedonism.
Spending months upon months to increase a quality to absurd levels is not a good thing. It leads to player frustration. A level 15 cap should be enough to demonstrate that the player has put in enough time & effort to embody the Quirk. I’m glad a cap was put on when it was and I’m glad they are making it more difficult to get Quirks to higher levels.