September ES: Where You and I Must Go

If someone could PM me with links to echoes of the “easter egg” I’d like that as well.

I thought the Whirring Contraption actually made thematic sense.

After all, we need a gazillion of them (ok, only 20, but I suspect it will feel like a gazillion when I go that route) to construct our own zubmarine. So I took it as the Engineer setting me on my path to both subversion and submersion. (How did she know?) I’ll be a little more discrete when I do construct my own vessel knowing of the Admiralty’s programme.

It did seem a little unusual as an ES reward, but I was fine with it…until I read these forums. Then the Suffering started. :) I kind of felt that way with the Election. I thought a lot of people would have been delighted with the way their choice of profession unfolded, if they hadn’t known what the alternatives were (boots! boots!). I love seeing what I missed in these storylines just to fill in the lore, but it can be a two-edged sword sometimes.

I for one quite enjoyed this one. I liked the mechanics, my seven days on the iceberg were fine (though some variety tied perhaps to number of days on the berg would have been welcome), and the final decision did make me think about why I make the choices I make (having been branded a Bringer of Death once, I’ve spent some time reconsidering these things). I will agree the ending seemed a bit abrupt, but otherwise, great fun!

I… I… I eh… Things… Things shall be well

And all manner of things…

Shall be well
edited by Cantankerous Captain on 8/27/2016

I’ve just started a newspaper, so the whirling contraption is very much appreciated. It saved me having to muck about at Wilmot’s End before I started the next edition.

I think they’re doing a new thing with the rewards and its connected with the fact that all three stories are really part of one very large story. Like, in the Season of Revolutions, all the stories shared a theme (Revolution!), but their plots were all standalone. Hence each story had a separate reward and trade-in item. It was the same with Frequently Deceased and Heart’s Blood. With this story, you’ve been asked to perform three difficult tasks, each task being but a chapter, with a suitably large reward to come in the story’s fourth and final chapter. The fact that the Lifeburg story is only the first chapter is also why it doesn’t really have a proper ending. The story simply hasn’t ended yet.
edited by Anne Auclair on 8/27/2016
edited by Anne Auclair on 9/1/2016

So, something I’m a little confused about:
People keep referring to the zee voyage you need to make in order to advance the story and how it’s unnecessary, a slog etc., but when I did it, I started the voyage, got an option about the lifeberg, clicked it, and arrived. Whole trip took me a single action. Is this a bug?

Anyway, I liked this story overall. I didn’t mind the lifeberg grind much, though I feel there could have been some more interesting rewards for it, and I did like the promise-making mechanic.

One thing that I thought was a bit of a shame was the lack of acknowledgment for those that had already been to the Avid Horizon, though I imagine that so few people would end up seeing it that it wouldn’t really be worth putting there.

[quote=Cranston Pickle]So, something I’m a little confused about:
People keep referring to the zee voyage you need to make in order to advance the story and how it’s unnecessary, a slog etc., but when I did it, I started the voyage, got an option about the lifeberg, clicked it, and arrived. Whole trip took me a single action. Is this a bug?[/quote]
That could be a bug, or it could be an intentional change in response to feedback. When I did it shortly after the story came out, I had to build up Approaching Journey’s End just like in any other zee-voyage. It might not have needed 10 though, I was operating on autopilot.

[quote=Optimatum][quote=Cranston Pickle]So, something I’m a little confused about:
People keep referring to the zee voyage you need to make in order to advance the story and how it’s unnecessary, a slog etc., but when I did it, I started the voyage, got an option about the lifeberg, clicked it, and arrived. Whole trip took me a single action. Is this a bug?[/quote]
That could be a bug, or it could be an intentional change in response to feedback. When I did it shortly after the story came out, I had to build up Approaching Journey’s End just like in any other zee-voyage. It might not have needed 10 though, I was operating on autopilot.[/quote]
I really hope they didn’t change it because a few people complained at having to go zailing. Like, if you’re going to complain about zailing to find a lifeburg, why not complain about having to zail to get to Polythreme? Or the Elder Continent? Sometimes I find zailing annoying, sometimes I find it fun, it honestly depends. This time I found it rather fun. Like, I’m against pointless padding - I was critical of the otherwise excellent Pentacoast Predicament for having an unnecessary flash lay (a mechanic that worked well in the Unsinkable Governess storyline, but which in the monkey story just felt tacked on). But zailing to find something at zee is not pointless padding.
edited by Anne Auclair on 8/27/2016

[quote=Anne Auclair][quote=Optimatum][quote=Cranston Pickle]So, something I’m a little confused about:
People keep referring to the zee voyage you need to make in order to advance the story and how it’s unnecessary, a slog etc., but when I did it, I started the voyage, got an option about the lifeberg, clicked it, and arrived. Whole trip took me a single action. Is this a bug?[/quote]
That could be a bug, or it could be an intentional change in response to feedback. When I did it shortly after the story came out, I had to build up Approaching Journey’s End just like in any other zee-voyage. It might not have needed 10 though, I was operating on autopilot.[/quote]
I really hope they didn’t change it because a few people complained at having to go zailing. Like, if you’re going to complain about zailing to find a lifeburg, why not complain about having to zail to get to Polythreme? Or the Elder Continent? Sometimes I find zailing annoying, sometimes I find it fun, it honestly depends. This time I found it rather fun. Like, I’m against pointless padding - I was critical of the otherwise excellent Pentacoast Predicament for having an unnecessary flash lay (a mechanic that worked well in the Unsinkable Governess storyline, but which in the monkey story just felt tacked on). But zailing to find something at zee is not pointless padding.
edited by Anne Auclair on 8/27/2016[/quote]

Zailing on its own is not pointless padding; that’s not the problem. It becomes pointless padding when it doesn’t add to the story and there’s two other instances of pointless padding drawing out the story further. Zailing in this instance is also not at all necessary story-wise, as the person sponsoring this expedition said he’d be providing the ship and crew, so the player not having to do everything would be a reasonable decision. (Even though players with ships found themselves using their own to explain the mechanics at zee.) If we can pay eight fate to have a journey instantly finish, surely paying for Exceptional Friendship can provide that same service once?

As for why I wouldn’t complain about zailing to a normal location, it’s very simple - it doesn’t interrupt a story. There may be stories at the destination and stories that unlocked it, but the zailing is an anticipated step before beginning any story that may appear on arrival. (As Ambitions are incredibly long-running stories they naturally fit between doing other activities, so visiting Ambition-related destinations doesn’t have this issue.) The issue here is that the zailing appeared partway into the story and served to interrupt it. This would be a smaller issue for a regular story, but for an exclusive story designed to attract and keep paying subscribers? Any significant disruption of the story and experience is a problem. (Flint had zailing partway through, but successfully avoided issues by giving the player a one-time instant teleport there. There’s no reason a teleport couldn’t be done here too.)

[quote=Optimatum]
Zailing on its own is not pointless padding; that’s not the problem. It becomes pointless padding when it doesn’t add to the story and there’s two other instances of pointless padding drawing out the story further. [/quote]
An investigation is a very small action sink for someone with two candles and as a mechanic it fits the story. The lifeburg navigation mechanic also wasn’t particularly demanding and worked rather well. For me its shortfall was a lack of textual variety - a little more could have happened. But I’ve seen far worse grinds in London’s main story-lines (like with Feducci). Compared to those, this story was a walk in the park.

You’re hunting a dying zee monster, so how is zailing not necessary story-wise? The Unterzee is a chaotic place where things that would normally be stationary - islands, wrecks, giant mushrooms - regularly rearrange themselves (the alterations). As lifeburgs move around it would probably be doubly hard to find. I mean, no one has apparently stumbled upon it for years. So you’re going to have to zail around a little.

Zailing appeared at the very beginning of the story. It didn’t interrupt the story, it was part of the main body of it.
edited by Anne Auclair on 8/27/2016

An investigation is a very small action sink, in other words about 15 actions when I did it. On its own, this would be fine. My issue is with combining that with two other repetitive action sinks. I agree about the lifeberg-navigation part - not enough variety to stay interesting, but it’s new text so I’m fine with it.

The issue with comparing grindy regular story bits to an Exceptional Story is they serve two different purposes. The first comes from FL’s design as a free-to-play browser game, so it combines time limits and grinding as an incentive to pay money for fast progress. An Exceptional Story serves to attract and maintain paying players, so it must both be engaging enough for players to consider it worthwhile, and not have an excess of the slow grindy bits the free parts of the game utilize.

(And let’s be honest, the Black Ribbon stuff is at the sparse end of ‘story’. &quotHey, I’ve seen you’re good at fighting. Come join my secret society and do a couple small things to establish the setting. Now dump tons of actions into building up a quality, which you can gamble for various single bits of text, most of which change absolutely nothing. Once you repeat that enough times, I’ll let you move on to the next story, which is doing the exact same thing for a different quality.&quot)

Zailing absolutely is necessary for the story, but the player doing the zailing isn’t. I’ve been hired to retrieve a corpse from a deathtrap, but the crew and supposedly the ship are provided. Why can’t they bring me, the expert, directly there? If players who don’t have a ship are expected to do this too, it makes even less sense - why on earth would this guy entrust the fine details to someone who very well may never have stepped on a boat?

From the point of view of a typical ES, the zailing appeared at the beginning. From the point of view of this atypical season, it didn’t. The zailing happened right after the ES story quality started incrementing, but the player has already been summoned, visited the Bluejacket, learned why they’re there, talked to mourners, etc. That may not technically be part of the ES itself, but it’s a prerequisite.
edited by Optimatum on 8/27/2016

Ummm, is the previous months’ story still available? I forgot to activate it! And it’s not technically end of month yet.

The story always switches over on the last Thursday of the previous month. I’m not quite sure why, but it’s always been that way. Anyways, the previous story is gone now. If you didn’t activate it, you’re probably out of luck - you could try contacting Failbetter and explaining the circumstances, but no clue what their policy is. (No matter what, you won’t get a reply for a couple days minimum since they don’t do anything over weekends.)
edited by Optimatum on 8/27/2016

The issue with comparing grindy regular story bits to an Exceptional Story is they serve two different purposes. The first comes from FL’s design as a free-to-play browser game, so it combines time limits and grinding as an incentive to pay money for fast progress. An Exceptional Story serves to attract and maintain paying players, so it must both be engaging enough for players to consider it worthwhile, and not have an excess of the slow grindy bits the free parts of the game utilize.[/quote]
Well, I’m a paying player and I want to zail. I doubt I’m the only one.

Zailing absolutely is necessary for the story, but the player doing the zailing isn’t. I’ve been hired to retrieve a corpse from a deathtrap, but the crew and supposedly the ship are provided. Why can’t they bring me, the expert, directly there? If players who don’t have a ship are expected to do this too, it makes even less sense - why on earth would this guy entrust the fine details to someone who very well may never have stepped on a boat?[/quote]
Because no one else would do it? Palpable desperation seemed the obvious motive. And zailing takes time, there are dangers, so why should it be easy?

From the point of view of a typical ES, the zailing appeared at the beginning. From the point of view of this atypical season, it didn’t. The zailing happened right after the ES story quality started incrementing, but the player has already been summoned, visited the Bluejacket, learned why they’re there, talked to mourners, etc. That may not technically be part of the ES itself, but it’s a prerequisite.[/quote]
For me that was just set up. The main story began when I took to the water.

[quote=Robin Alexander][quote=Anne Auclair]
Well, I’m a paying player and I want to zail. I doubt I’m the only one.[/quote]

See, I respect your opinion, but I do think you may be a minority . . .

You said it yourself, FBG has to respond to the majority of players, not the few. [/quote]
I didn’t say that at all.

And two or three complaints on a forum hardly adds up to a majority. We don’t know if any emails were sent. So, who is not to say that the majority of players quietly enjoyed it?

Had I waited an extra day I wouldn’t have zailed and my experience would have been lessened. From my perspective taking out zailing has weakened the story.

[quote=Anne Auclair][quote=Robin Alexander][quote=Anne Auclair]
Well, I’m a paying player and I want to zail. I doubt I’m the only one.[/quote]

See, I respect your opinion, but I do think you may be a minority . . .

You said it yourself, FBG has to respond to the majority of players, not the few. [/quote]
I didn’t say that at all.

And two or three complaints on a forum hardly adds up to a majority. We don’t know if any emails were sent. So, who is not to say that the majority of players quietly enjoyed it?[/quote]

Except half your comments have a negative rating of -3. If people liked the zailing, than they’d at least like the comments of a fellow pro-zailer, and the rating would even out. This proves that you are, indeed, in the minority.
edited by Vavakx Nonexus on 8/27/2016

[quote=Vavakx Nonexus]Except half your comments have a negative rating of -3. If people liked the zailing, than they’d at least like the comments of a fellow pro-zailer, and the rating would even out. This proves that you are, indeed, in the minority.
edited by Vavakx Nonexus on 8/27/2016[/quote]
All that proves is that three or four people have pressed the thumbs down button.

[quote=Anne Auclair][quote=Vavakx Nonexus]Except half your comments have a negative rating of -3. If people liked the zailing, than they’d at least like the comments of a fellow pro-zailer, and the rating would even out. This proves that you are, indeed, in the minority.
edited by Vavakx Nonexus on 8/27/2016[/quote]
All that proves is that three or four people have pressed the thumbs down button.[/quote]

And that there weren’t enough people that liked your comment to compensate for the negativity. Either most of the pro-zailing people forgot how liking works, or there aren’t enough present here.

[quote=Vavakx Nonexus][quote=Anne Auclair][quote=Vavakx Nonexus]Except half your comments have a negative rating of -3. If people liked the zailing, than they’d at least like the comments of a fellow pro-zailer, and the rating would even out. This proves that you are, indeed, in the minority.
edited by Vavakx Nonexus on 8/27/2016[/quote]
All that proves is that three or four people have pressed the thumbs down button.[/quote]

And that there weren’t enough people that liked your comment to compensate for the negativity. Either most of the pro-zailing people forgot how liking works, or there aren’t enough present here.[/quote]
Wow, three people clicked the thumbs down button in the space of an hour. What a crushing majority they are.

Alright, that’s enough. We only get so much time in this world to have opinions; we can debate as to how popular those opinions were when we’re dead.

This isn’t intended to continue the discussion at hand, but as an aside… I really don’t understand some people’s use of liking and disliking. Most of the time people vote up comments that are particularly helpful, insightful, or creative; the comments voted down are rude, unrelated, or outright wrong. But in the occasional emotionally-charged discussion, people vote up the person expressing the majority opinion and vote down the person expressing the minority opinion. Just now, many of my posts and those agreeing were voted up and the posts disagreeing were voted down. But there wasn’t any hostility or name-calling here, just polite disagreement. I find it rather silly.

By the way, Anne Auclair, you remind me somewhat of the Jovial Contrarian - most of my interactions with you seem to be centered around differences in opinions. :) (I intend that as a compliment; I hope it comes across as such.)
edited by Optimatum on 8/27/2016