Selling the Location of a certain Cave

Is it true that I can no longer go back to the Cave of the Nadir after I have sold the location, as the storylet requires no more than 3 of the Route quality? It seems odd that I would not be able to go somewhere simply because others know where it is. I don’t recall a warning on the storylet to sell it, though it could be that because I have irrigo I do not see the proper storylet to return, currently.

Yes, it locks you out of the Cave for good. Be sure to get everything you needed from there beforehand.

[color=#009900]It doesn’t lock you out of the cave for good. :-) It might have, briefly, for some sales options. Sorry about that![/color][li]

Ah~ should I send a bug report to get my alt straightened out?

[color=#009900]No no; you’ll find you have access.[/color]

Gotcha. Thanks! :)

Edit: No access yet, but I’ll wait and see.
edited by Sara Hysaro on 7/12/2013

So wait, why are the devils only offering Ivory Organza (312.50E, easily obtainable via the relickers) when the Great Game and Revolutionaries are both offering 1,562.50E items? Not to mention the Revolutionary option can’t be obtained anywhere else. I thought the Devils were supposed to be rich?

I believe the Urchins offer a Starstone Demark - much the same as the Organza. I believe the Urchins have a deal of interest in the Nadir - in their odd, heterodox way - but not much material wealth to offer, while the Devils are rich enough, but not overwhelmingly interested in something which does not directly contribute to the soul trade. What, I wonder, would be the flavour of a soul that has forgotten every interesting experience it ever had?

The Game, meanwhile, can find a buyer for anything - especially something that might lead an enemy agent to forget that they’ve been compromised, or a dead-drop that no-one but the intended recipient will ever find. And the Revolutionaries, well, we know they have a particular interest in uncommon sources of light, so they’re going to bid as high as they can.

Well sure, you can muddle out an in-game explanation for just about anything if you try hard enough. I was wondering more about the game maker’s rationale here. Considering it is so far the ONLY way to change your “Aligned With” quality, why do two factions currently offer rewards FIVE TIMES better than the other two?

[color=#009900]You certainly can! Or as Sir Fred did, you can read the clues (the Urchin even tells you that they can’t afford to pay too much), work out the underlying rationale, and use that to address some of the game’s mysteries. Not all factions are created equal, and not all choices have identically profitable outcomes.[/color]

>so far

[color=#009900]And there’s the rest of your answer.[/color]


If every choice offered equal rewards, then there’d be no temptation not to go with one’s personal favourite - and so it would be no choice at all. If you choose to pass secrets on to the Urchin-gangs even though they’re by very definition a loose collection of warring clans of prepubescents whose only sources of income are petty pilfering and collecting detritus from parts of the city so remote that no-one else even thinks to go there (I call it skylarking, as in like mudlarking but in the sky,) THEN you can be considered Closest To them.

But the Devil’s explanation makes zero sense. On the card Virginia says “But I can’t offer you too much.” She’s full of crap. Assuming Virginia is spending the same on expedition supplies that the players do, every time you seek a shrine of the Deep Blue Heaven, she’s spending around 50 echoes (10 echoes per 4 supplies x 5 = 50 echoes and 20 supplies). I alone have cost her more than 312.50E, and that’s just for the second-smallest expedition! Clearly she has tons of echoes at her disposal and is already spending a lot of them on exploring the Forgotten Quarter.

Sorry, but it just doesn’t make sense to me that this supposedly incredibly wealthy faction fronted by an incredibly wealthy character who has displayed tons of interest in the Forgotten Quarter since almost the moment I set foot in it would be willing to let herself get outbid by some Great Gamer who we’ve never heard of before in connection to the Forgotten Quarter. Honestly I can’t remember ever hearing from the Imperturbable Spymaster at all before this.

Besides which, the basic exchange rate doesn’t make sense - if you do trade the location of the Nadir to the Great Game, you get a Reported Location of a One-Time Prince in Hell. The major reason that item is worth so much in the first place is because, as implied by the item text itself, the current Hell leadership is very interested in tracking down these former Princes. Even if Virginia isn’t that interested in the location of the Nadir itself, wouldn’t Hell be willing to drop ~1500E on indirectly acquiring that location of the Prince? They could commission you to sell the Nadir to the Game, and then trade you something of equal value, for example. Or trade you first, and then sell the Nadir to the Great Game themselves.

You’re assuming that devils have the same economic foundation as we mortal adventurers do. I see no reason to - devils live forever; they have access to knowledge that would sizzle our brains; they have legions of Hell-creatures of varying levels of strength, ferocity and mutability. Virginia can use Embassy-issued charts, Embassy-issued demonic assistants, and Embassy-issued soul-rations - plus her own wit and experience - to conduct expeditions at a fraction of the cost we’d pay.

Second, we’ve seen no sign that Virginia’s at all interested in the Nadir. She’s been all over the Forgotten Quarter, yes, but what’s she been looking for? The Correspondence, chiefly, and those who have studied it. Knowledge of the Correspondence offers tremendous power… and its practitioners tend to have souls of exceptional interest to the connoisseur. Something like the Nadir - which, for all we know, might have terribly deleterious effects on the diabolical physiology - is simply not evidenced to be particularly valuable to her.

As for the Game’s reward, well, the reason the Reported Locations have any value at all is that Hell doesn’t know they exist. If Virginia knew that the Spymaster knew where to find one of their royals-in-exile, well, his life would hardly be worth an hour’s purchase. If they did happen to put the Nadir’s location on the market, and find one of their lost lieges in return, then all the better for them, but you can hardly expect to benefit from the deal.

[color=#009900]Fallen London’s system of rewards and currency, considered as a consistent economic system, makes less than no sense. You’ll have a marginally easier time poking holes in it than you would poking holes in over-ripe Brie. It exists primarily to indicate and reinforce storytelling effects, and secondarily as a pacing mechanism. The disparity here exists to lend texture to a point about why Hell isn’t pursuing the Nadir (and why Virginia wasn’t a Rival).[/color]
[color=#009900]But I suspect you know this, and I imagine your actual point is, &quotwhy won’t my preferred choice give me enough moneys and I want you to change it so it does&quot. Getting shouty about this sort of thing is troll’s work, and as Alan Partridge would say, we’re all better than that.[/color]

So? If Virginia has access to all that, she could just as easily rent all those resources out to amateur archaeologists and make the full profit, which could in turn be used to buy souls, fund more expeditions, whatever - just because Virginia gets a discount doesn’t mean all that labor and equipment isn’t worth market value. After all, we’re never told precisely WHAT the composition of our &quotexpedition supplies&quot are - perhaps we players have a few Embassy-issued charts in our map cases, and a few burly goat demons helping us to carry all our gear!

This is pretty weak logic here. We don’t even know exactly what the Nadir is yet - for all we know it could be absolutely FILLED with Correspondence. Virginia has been spending plenty of time and money going on expeditions to places where we don’t find any Correspondence, so it’s not like she isn’t willing to spend a lot of money to take a chance. The Nadir clearly holds by far more potential for mystery than any of the other places, too.

Of course I can expect to benefit from the deal. If the Great Game had wanted something from Hell, they could have traded the Reported Location to them long before now. Instead, they’re offering it to me for the location of the Nadir. I have something the Great Games wants; Hell does not. If I went to Hell and told them (and I am much better friends with Hell than the Great Game), they would almost certainly tell me to make the trade and reward me after. You might suggest that they would just double-cross me or something, but so far the devils have all been very polite and true to their word. They probably wouldn’t want to let any souls go, but I’m sure they’d trade me a heap of material wealth, which they have in spades.

[color=#009900]This has crossed the line from discussion to angry nit-picking. Locking the thread.[/color][li]