I also believe these are stat checks (note that you get an increase in Dangerous/Shadowy, like an actual stat challenge, at least for the last two attacks). And the Game Instructions do explicitly say that higher Dangerous tends to win.
This includes plenty of space for luck, unless there’s a huge difference in the stat between the two players. (I’ve tied a few times with a new alt – with negative stats – and they always lost).
after a frankly scandalous amount of duels, this is how i think mechanic works. Correct me if i’m wrong;
1. the invited party accepts the challenge and chooses a tactic. If they chose the dangerous tactic, their dangerous score is measured against the inviting party’s dangerous score, if the chose the shadowy tactic, their shadowy score is measured against the inviting party’s shadowy score
2. each duelist chooses a tactic. if both parties choose the same tactic, their corresponding stats are measured (with bonus from empowerments. unclear how poweful those are. perhaps numeral value of dream level is added to corresponding stat? very likely there’s a degree of luck involved in this step). if one party chooses a dangerous tactic, and the other party chooses shadowy tactic, it seems the chosen stats are measured against each other, ie dangerous stat is measured against the shadowy stat.
3. the inviting party chooses a tactic. similar to the first step, but this time it’s the inviting party that chooses which stat is measured. possibly the previous round’s empowerment bonuses are added as well? (if so, this allows for a nice damage control). At the end of the third step, the fight is resolved, the winner gets a ribbon and the loser gets a free ticked to mr Boatman’s Wild Ride.
It’s pretty clear that there’s a random element in the mechanics of the game.
Someone with a Dangerous of 250 will not always beat someone with a Dangerous of 249.
[quote=Nigel Overstreet]It’s pretty clear that there’s a random element in the mechanics of the game.
Someone with a Dangerous of 250 will not always beat someone with a Dangerous of 249.[/quote]
there’s almost definitely a luck element in the second step, because during one of the duels, my game crashed after i picked one of the tactics and won a bout- booted me back to the choice storylet, where i chose the same tactic again and lost the bout this time. Unless my opponent swapped items during the crash, which i find rather unlikely, it was definitely a luck thing. not sure about the first and third step, but it’s likely luck plays a role there as well.
edit: hard to say how big of a role, though. what sort of stat gap can be hopped over with a little luck, and at which point it’s just hopeless even if you get lucky? we just don’t know
edited by gronostaj on 7/31/2017
Well, you’re partly right, but not completely.
First, I want to point out that lethal sparring uses the exact same mechanic as regular sparring. The only difference is some text at the beginning, and of course the end result.
Second, this is also the same as chess matches, except the sparring uses Dangerous/Shadowy and you can use Dream qualities to help your attack, while in chess you use Watchful/Persuasive and different options are presented based on a random value chosen at the beginning of the match.
The match itself consists of 5 social actions (3 for the initiator, 2 for the invitee). The 3 middle actions are challenges. The winner is determined based on a best-of-three of these challenges. That is: nothing you choose impacts the next steps. Any choice you make only impacts the current challenge.
Details:
Each of the three challenges (in steps 2-4) seems to be a skill check. So luck plays a factor, but the one with the higher level in that stat has an advantage. I’m not sure how that Dream qualities play into this. The simplest guess is that your relevant dream level is added to your chosen stat (Dangerous/Shadowy) when doing the skill check.
Every challenge (steps 2-4) awards the winner 1 x "Sparring: Bouts Won". Whether you see this message or not, you can see this in your qualities, under Stories. This is how you can know for sure that whatever you chose in any round affects only that round - one of the players always gains 1 x "Sparring: Bouts Won" every challenge round.
The winner is the one who has at least 2 x "Sparring: Bouts Won" by the end of Step #4.
edited by dov on 7/31/2017
So for the experienced stabbers among you, how exactly does the timing of this work? Could I send someone a request and log in an hour later to find myself unexpectedly dead, or do I have to click a button to receive my wounds (thus giving me a chance to evade the slow boat?)
If you are the one who initiated the duel, you are the one executing the final action (which completes it). You’ll get a message if you’ve won or lost. If you’ve lost, your Wounds are set to 8, and you can go to your Inventory/Messages to heal yourself, or to your Story tab to go directly to the Boat.
If the other player has initiated the duel, then they do the above, and once the execute that final action your Wounds are set to 8 (if you’ve lost, of course). What happens to you depends on where your character is. If you’re not logged in, the next time you do it’s like going regularly to the Story tab, which means your Wounds will send you to the boat. If you’re already logged in, you’ll get sent to the boat when you go to the Story tab. You’re fine until you do, which also gives you a chance to heal (though it’s trickier to find out). If you really wan to avoid the boat, remain logged in, and after every action you take (from any storylet), always go first to your message tab to see if there’s a message you’ve lost the duel (so you can heal), before clicking on the Story tab.
If you are the one who initiated the duel, you are the one executing the final action (which completes it). You’ll get a message if you’ve won or lost. If you’ve lost, your Wounds are set to 8, and you can go to your Inventory/Messages to heal yourself, or to your Story tab to go directly to the Boat.
If the other player has initiated the duel, then they do the above, and once the execute that final action your Wounds are set to 8 (if you’ve lost, of course). What happens to you depends on where your character is. If you’re not logged in, the next time you do it’s like going regularly to the Story tab, which means your Wounds will send you to the boat. If you’re already logged in, you’ll get sent to the boat when you go to the Story tab. You’re fine until you do, which also gives you a chance to heal (though it’s trickier to find out). If you really wan to avoid the boat, remain logged in, and after every action you take (from any storylet), always go first to your message tab to see if there’s a message you’ve lost the duel (so you can heal), before clicking on the Story tab.[/quote]
[li]
Thank you kindly, dov!
Well, Màiread has been in the Neath for quite a number of years and so far has managed not to visit the slow boat, and I’d like to keep it that way for now (one of these days I’ll finally make getting cider my priority). If anyone fancies duelling for ribbons and doesn’t mind allowing me to initiate the encounter, I would be delighted to hear from you. I can always help nurse you back to health or send you some other beneficial action in the event of a loss, if you’d like.
I’m feeling livid!
Quickly, someone punch me! With a weapon! A pointy weapon!
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/The%20Mirthless%20Colonist
Xelda will accept lethal challengers, and is a hesperidean. You will get a sip if you ask for it in the challenge.
xKiv would do the same, but is locked in a bugged lethal bout with someone who is no longer in a lethal bout (so the final action has no eligible targets). I have had no response to the bug report for two business days now, so I am not very hopeful [1]
([1] for comparison, I got an almost immediate “I reproed the bug, should get it fixed sometime this year.” to a bug I reported in 2016. It’s still not fixed).
They tend to respond a day or two, but they don’t work during weekends, so that’s the reason for the delay.
I imagine FBG is composed of experts at removing dead social actions by now.
Well. This thread got a little derailed, but I’m here to just state for the record I am also welcoming any and all lethal bouts. :)
Can anyone confirm whether the ribbons are taken from the losing player, i.e. a zero sum game, or is a new ribbon generated each duel?
ICountFrom0 and I have done a total of (I think) 6-7 games, of which I’ve won 4 and he’s won 2-3. I have 2 ribbons and he has none. Is it a bug or is this how it’s supposed to go?
[quote=navchaa]Can anyone confirm whether the ribbons are taken from the losing player, i.e. a zero sum game, or is a new ribbon generated each duel?
ICountFrom0 and I have done a total of (I think) 6-7 games, of which I’ve won 4 and he’s won 2-3. I have 2 ribbons and he has none. Is it a bug or is this how it’s supposed to go?[/quote]
A new Sanguine Ribbon is generated for the winner. Otherwise, no one could have won any to begin with (since there were none at first).
If you (or someone else) have won a lethal bout and have no Sanguine Ribbon then either it’s a bug or you’re mistaken. You should contact support.
edited by dov on 8/6/2017
[quote=dov][quote=navchaa]Can anyone confirm whether the ribbons are taken from the losing player, i.e. a zero sum game, or is a new ribbon generated each duel?
ICountFrom0 and I have done a total of (I think) 6-7 games, of which I’ve won 4 and he’s won 2-3. I have 2 ribbons and he has none. Is it a bug or is this how it’s supposed to go?[/quote]
A new Sanguine Ribbon is generated for the winner. Otherwise, no one could have won any to begin with (since there were none at first).
If you (or someone else) have won a lethal bout and have no Sanguine Ribbon then either it’s a bug or you’re mistaken. You should contact support.
edited by dov on 8/6/2017[/quote]
Thanks for this! Turns out I’ve been mistaken. I looked at the number of black ribbons under "Curiosities" when it should be sanguine ribbons under "Story". Been a bit confused lately, lack of sleep and all…
I have 5 sanguine ribbons!
[quote=suinicide]They tend to respond a day or two, but they don’t work during weekends, so that’s the reason for the delay.
I imagine FBG is composed of experts at removing dead social actions by now.[/quote]
Well, it’s been over a week now. Are there better contacts than fallenlondonbugs and/or support AT {fbg}.com?
Both of those have always worked for me, I’m not sure what the problem is. Sorry.
Probably not enough time. They got back to me (and fixed it) today.
I have a certain constable I need to meet on the shores of the slow river. Would anyone care to assist me in getting there? I would appreciate losing a lethal bout.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Winter%20IV
Word of warning, I have had help from three others who are now … indisposed. Apparently my combat instincts don’t know how to be turned off.
You have been invited to die. My cider will keep me disposed.