So I recently returned from a trip to the tomb colonies and a common theme in several of the journal style entries reference a "Power" at work in the tomb colonies. Is anyone aware who this power is? I think one of their projects is the construction of a temple/structure that has required the, I assume, tremendous expense of actually importing marble from Italy. Now I suppose the Cumean Canal does lead to Italy, but I would still think importing marble would be expensive.
Spoilers (Don’t know how to actually create the spoiler block)
If it is not well-known, I offer the thought that it could be the work of the Fingerkings. This is based primarily on two things. One, the reason the fourth city was lost to the Bazaar was the work of the Fingerkings. They had somehow managed to turn the population against the Masters and were revered as a powerful entity. I’m assuming the reverence based on the frequent snakes and references to snakes in the Forgotten Quarter. I suspect the Gallery of Serpents might reveal more, but I’ve yet to pay the fate for that experience. It seems plausible that the construction in the tomb colonies is the fifth city rendition of the snake temples of the fourth city.
Two, the weekly payment for the Glassman includes mourning candles. Mourning candles seem to be made from human fat (generally from the tomb colonists). If the Fingerkings do have some dominion over the Tomb Colonies, then their ability to pay their servants in this tomb colony product is easily explicable.
So there is my guess. Anyone else have any thoughts?
Why do you say that? The Mr. Irons Sacks just suggests that the character has become the pawn of someone. It doesn’t suggest the bazaar. Getting the profession also requires entanglement in the wars of illusion and the text for becoming a glassman references that his were the arts used to make the gallery of serpents or something of that ilk. One does get the job by the unsigned letter which in some of the options refers to the bazaar, but I had always thought of the unsigned message as a more efficient game mechanic than a true story mechanic. Was there something else that made you think the Glassmen were under the employ of the bazaar?
Very cool info, Desiderius. It seems my content has been uniquely cultivated to avoid all of those sources. Light fingers ambition, a Parabola destiny with no such suggestions (I think), low chess dreams, and sided with the constable. I appreciate some confirmation of my theory. Thank you.
Why do you say that? The Mr. Irons Sacks just suggests that the character has become the pawn of someone. It doesn’t suggest the bazaar. Getting the profession also requires entanglement in the wars of illusion and the text for becoming a glassman references that his were the arts used to make the gallery of serpents or something of that ilk. One does get the job by the unsigned letter which in some of the options refers to the bazaar, but I had always thought of the unsigned message as a more efficient game mechanic than a true story mechanic. Was there something else that made you think the Glassmen were under the employ of the bazaar?[/quote]
Okay lets see
-The unsigned letter is written by Mr Pages. Like, who else uses words like "Delicerent". It is extremely unlikely that the Bazaar would be working for their enemies.
-The Gallery of Serpents appears to be a prison, or something like it.
-The option for becoming a doctor says it will minimize your entanglement in the bazaar’s schemes.
-The fingerkings don’t need people to do stuff INSIDE parabola, and generally seem to be doing just fine outside it by stealing bodies. (Although there is the person in the Gallery of Serpents story, so. Its possible )
-A set of glasses that things in the mirror find irresistable doesn’t especially seem like it’s something you’d wear because you’re working for them.
-There’s also the disabled option to establish a Parabolan Base Camp that would presumably allow other people into the mirror marches, which again, seems to be more working on getting stuff from our side into Parabola than the other way around.
-Becoming embroiled in the wars of illusion just means you have exposure to Parabola.
-In other places Mr Iron has encouraged people to not get involved with the Bazaar’s schemes. Plus he says the same thing to all the tier three professions and some of them (eg Licentiate) are even more clearly working for the Bazaar.
Though to be honest I’m still pretty vague on what Glassmen actually are doing, beyond expeditions into the mirror-marches.
Outside of Parabola, they study people who have glanced into Parabola in one way or another (such as dreamers and poets), and possibly try to glean insights from their work.
Thanks for the reply Worm. I have responded to your list below with either counterpoints or questions. I will not let my conspiracy be dispelled so easily. xD
[spoilers]
-I acknowledge that the unsigned letter was written by Pages. Based on how the letter itself was written, I had assumed it was less an offer of employment and more a way to suggest possible activities. I am essentially saying to pay no mind to the fact that it was ostensibly written for the bazaar and that its role is gameplay not story. That could be false, it was just how I understood the letter.
-I have not yet done the Gallery of Serpents expedition, so this is more of a question. Did it explicitly appear to be a prison for the dream serpents? The Grand Sanatorium that one visits in the Nemesis is also like a prison, but it is run by a minion of the fingerkings. (I personally didn’t play that ambition, but this was suggested by another player) So the Gallery of Serpents serving a comparable role as a prison actually fits well with my suggestion.
-I think the idea of the doctor being less involved with the bazaar’s schemes is just suggesting that the doctor has yet to surrender his agency. He hasn’t joined the schemes of the bazaar either for or against it. If my supposition were correct, and a glassman were a minion of the Fingerkings, he could still be considered as part of the schemes of the bazaar, just the target of them.
-You are right about the glasses. One wouldn’t wear them, because one is a worker for the Fingerkings. However, one could still wear them just because one found them while wandering through Parabola. (I had frankly forgotten the "irresistible to glass things part")
-My response to the base camp is along the same vein as the glasses. One could work for the Fingerkings and still be an enterprising explorer of Parabola. I don’t think they need be mutually exclusive.
-The low score could just mean the ability to go through glass. I think all it take to travel through mirror is the knowledge that it is possible. This isn’t contrary to your statement, it is just a different take.
-Where else does Mr. Irons discourage people from becoming involved in the schemes of the bazaar? I don’t really remember anywhere else.
Regardless, I think my earlier point, that being involved in the schemes of the bazaar doesn’t actually involve working for the bazaar. For example, I think one could say the revolutionaries are involved in the schemes of the bazaar even though their interests are not aligned. But mainly, I think Irons just doesn’t like seeing people becoming anyone’s pawn. He had a bad experience with the bazaar and is impatient to return to space. I think he’d discourage anyone from becoming a pawn. I
-Only the licentiate is clearly working for the bazaar, right? I don’t think there is clear indicators for the monster hunter or correspondent. And each of those professions involved the character becoming more intertwined in the Neath. Either by performing some esoteric ritual or learning a uniquely powerful language.
[/spoiler]
So I’m not yet convinced that the glassmen are employed by the bazaar and not the Fingerkings. Any-who, thanks for the reply.
[spoiler]My take: first of all, I wouldn’t necessarily assume that Glassmen are agents of the Fingerkings. The Glassman’s great trick, surely, is entering and exploring Parabola -without- the Fingerkings’ assistance - and, in fact, using techniques that might allow one to work against them. The use of Mourning-Candles, to me, suggests not a direct connection to the Tomb-Colonies, but their practical use as a source of a light that illuminates without attracting Fingerkings - the opposite to the faux-sunlight of Cosmogone.
Without wanting to spoil the Gallery of Serpents too much… it’s definitely not a pro-Fingerking place. If you don’t like the Fingerkings, it’s the sort of place you’d be in favour of. As for the Sanatorium… it does seem to be a prison of some sort, or at least a place where people are kept by force. And there might be some connection with the Fingerkings, but that involves one of the Destinies, so that’s in the confusing realm of might come to will have been future events.
As for the power at work in the Tomb-Colonies? My guess would be Snake, Red Bird and Cat expanding their empire. Especially if the temples resemble the Mayan-style ones we see in Sunless Sea’s Venderbight.[/spoiler]
[quote=Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook][spoiler]My take: first of all, I wouldn’t necessarily assume that Glassmen are agents of the Fingerkings. The Glassman’s great trick, surely, is entering and exploring Parabola -without- the Fingerkings’ assistance - and, in fact, using techniques that might allow one to work against them. The use of Mourning-Candles, to me, suggests not a direct connection to the Tomb-Colonies, but their practical use as a source of a light that illuminates without attracting Fingerkings - the opposite to the faux-sunlight of Cosmogone.
Without wanting to spoil the Gallery of Serpents too much… it’s definitely not a pro-Fingerking place. If you don’t like the Fingerkings, it’s the sort of place you’d be in favour of. As for the Sanatorium… it does seem to be a prison of some sort, or at least a place where people are kept by force. And there might be some connection with the Fingerkings, but that involves one of the Destinies, so that’s in the confusing realm of might come to will have been future events.
As for the power at work in the Tomb-Colonies? My guess would be Snake, Red Bird and Cat expanding their empire. Especially if the temples resemble the Mayan-style ones we see in Sunless Sea’s Venderbight.[/spoiler][/quote]
-That is a good point with mourning candles. While it would make sense, is it ever confirmed that mourning candles don’t attract the fingerkings?
-I would think most directly employed agents of the Fingerkings could travel through mirrors. All it takes to travel through a mirror is the knowledge that one can do so. If one were employed by the Fingerkings, it doesn’t seem too implausible that one could travel through mirrors.
-I haven’t personally played the Nemesis ambition, so I am not sure if Desiderius’ suggestion relied solely on the combination of the ambition and destiny or not, though I suspect it did contribute significantly.
-Now the Cheery Man connection, Desiderius pointed out does directly mention the kings (probably the fingerkings) and in the same breath mentions that they are building something.
-Looking forward to giving the Gallery of Serpents a go. It just might be a while… :)
[quote=Qosmio911]-That is a good point with mourning candles. While it would make sense, is it ever confirmed that mourning candles don’t attract the fingerkings?
-I would think most directly employed agents of the Fingerkings could travel through mirrors. All it takes to travel through a mirror is the knowledge that one can do so. If one were employed by the Fingerkings, it doesn’t seem too implausible that one could travel through mirrors.
-I haven’t personally played the Nemesis ambition, so I am not sure if Desiderius’ suggestion relied solely on the combination of the ambition and destiny or not, though I suspect it did contribute significantly.
-Now the Cheery Man connection, Desiderius pointed out does directly mention the kings (probably the fingerkings) and in the same breath mentions that they are building something.
-Looking forward to giving the Gallery of Serpents a go. It just might be a while… :)[/quote]
[spoiler]- Mourning Candles are described as a way to see without being seen. That this specifically refers to bright light attracting the Fingerkings is only my interpretation, but I think we can take it as the intended interpretation that Glassmen are issued with Mourning Candles because they are specifically useful for stealth purposes.
I don’t know if travelling through a mirror is -that- simple - our characters have a few opportunities to learn that such travel is possible, but we generally we only manage to actually do so when we’re actually going mad. Presumably, we’re having some moment of bizarre insight, or being lured in during our period of mental wandering, and then getting lost and forgetting where we’ve been and what we’re doing. I agree that the Fingerkings’ agents can very likely travel back and forth at will, but I think what makes the Glassmen special - what makes them a powerful, high-ranking career option, is that they’ve figured out how to travel through mirrors without going mad -or- being Fingerking agents. They have secret knowledge that doesn’t come at the cost of their mind or their bodily autonomy (as agents of the Fingerkings tend to lose) - but it does come at the cost of being entangled in the Bazaar’s schemes.
That Cheery Man text does indeed seem suggestive of the Fingerkings. On the other hand, it could also refer to the Priest-Kings of Xibalba, who also like to possess people and so also have a use for having fresh bodies shipped to them, and who have a definite established connection to the Tomb-Colonies. Honestly, I’m not prepared to swear either way. Given they’re both connected with possession, serpents, mirrors and horrible danger, there could be even deeper connections between the two - we just don’t know yet!
The Sanatorium, and the Castle of Forests, and the Red-Handed Queen, and the connection between them - if any - is a bit of a mystery to me. I’ve played the Ambition and the Destiny and seen all the relevant results - I just can’t piece it together. But, I don’t -think- the Fingerkings are the secret power behind the Sanatorium, because I don’t know how they’d benefit from it. But, then, I don’t know how anyone would. Creepy place.
[/spoiler]
I don’t know if travelling through a mirror is -that- simple - our characters have a few opportunities to learn that such travel is possible, but we generally we only manage to actually do so when we’re actually going mad. Presumably, we’re having some moment of bizarre insight, or being lured in during our period of mental wandering, and then getting lost and forgetting where we’ve been and what we’re doing. I agree that the Fingerkings’ agents can very likely travel back and forth at will, but I think what makes the Glassmen special - what makes them a powerful, high-ranking career option, is that they’ve figured out how to travel through mirrors without going mad -or- being Fingerking agents. They have secret knowledge that doesn’t come at the cost of their mind or their bodily autonomy (as agents of the Fingerkings tend to lose) - but it does come at the cost of being entangled in the Bazaar’s schemes.
That Cheery Man text does indeed seem suggestive of the Fingerkings. On the other hand, it could also refer to the Priest-Kings of Xibalba, who also like to possess people and so also have a use for having fresh bodies shipped to them, and who have a definite established connection to the Tomb-Colonies. Honestly, I’m not prepared to swear either way. Given they’re both connected with possession, serpents, mirrors and horrible danger, there could be even deeper connections between the two - we just don’t know yet!
The Sanatorium, and the Castle of Forests, and the Red-Handed Queen, and the connection between them - if any - is a bit of a mystery to me. I’ve played the Ambition and the Destiny and seen all the relevant results - I just can’t piece it together. But, I don’t -think- the Fingerkings are the secret power behind the Sanatorium, because I don’t know how they’d benefit from it. But, then, I don’t know how anyone would. Creepy place.
[/spoiler][/quote]
- I could have sworn I had recently read the mirror thing somewhere, but I now can’t find it. :(
-From what I gleaned from the wiki, the Sanatorium seemed a place where people could be interrogate in relative secrecy and perhaps even under the guise of a medical facility, with one example being an interrogation of a presbyterate agent. Does that agree with your interpretation?
Anyway, thanks to everyone for the discussion. It has been interesting!